And here's the link http://usa.asus.com/mb/socket478/p4t533-c/overview.htm# ;)

c'mon, i haven't even booted up my first ANUS yet.

WOW, I like the way (sarcasm) that on TomsHardware it says that this 850E chipset will not support USB2.0 and that it won't officially support the 1066MHZ RDRAM, but RIGHT on the Asus website they say that this motherboard supports BOTH! Is toms slipping? maybe. I'm still going to wait for the AMD Opterons to come out. NO going trough the Northbridge to get from the RAM to the CPU... THAT'S GOTTA BE SOOO FAST! So fast that Intel is just flat out copying them. I left out the best part too... first mainstream computer with 64 bit bus!

That ASUS board is still the Sweetest thing out today though, and defintately SHOULDN'T be shrugged off like I made it seem in my above comment. If I had to upgrade today, that'd be the computer I'd build.

read that thread again in Tom's Hardware...it says motherboard companies are putting in special chips to get USB 2.0!! Indeed, microsoft XP doesn't support USB 2,0..meaning of course it didn't embedd USB 2.0 drivers in the code for any devices..it's more 1394 support than anything!
From what I've been reading and searching up on I'm waiting until the 845 comes out in the 533FSB range. I'm sticking with DDR as that is better for low latency operation...plus it's plenty fast enough when you have 1GB of it too!!!
Opus

AMD Opteron? Hmmm ... AMD ... I'm already leary (no, my name's not Timothy). You might say that I'm just a little gun-shy about AMD. I'm sure you can understand why! LOL
And what motherboard do you plan to use with this thing???ROTFLMFAO
I doubt that AMD will be giving Gary's ANUS a run for it's money anytime soon. Hehehe

-SonOfSmawg
What are you talking about!? AMD's new opteron processor is going to be awesome. Intel was making one with a 64 bit bus, but they couldn't get the job done, so they're outright copying AMD's design now.

As for current Mobo's for AMD processors... ever heard of ASUS? AMD is a really good CPU developer, and as far as price performance goes, AMD can't be beat. JUST as stable as any intel setup. Does more work per clock cycle. Cheaper. Only recently beat out in performance by any significant margin by intel. I'm sure there's a ton of people that disagree, but there's also a ton of people that do agree.

yeah ted...sometimes you feel like a nut and sometimes you don't!!!

Opus :D

hehe, opus. I'm not saying that AMD's are better than intel chips at all, or vice versa. They're kinda like apples and oranges, but they're both really good depending on the setup you have. But Intel is totally switching over to AMD's design for they're next line of processors, that's a fact. I wonder what that'll be like.... AMD's and INTELS being the exact same CPU... maybe the differences from there will really be chipsets or motherboards... who knows.

Ted, take a look at Asus' motherboard line-up when it comes to AMD ... the A7A133 is SDRAM only, the A7A266 and A7A266-E have that funky SDRAM/DDRSDRAM combo thang, they have a couple of those nVidia boards, and all of the rest are VIA! They need a Ali mobo with 3 memory slots that'll handle 3 Gb of PC3000, and USB 2.0. If they made one, I'd have it RIGHT NOW.
Oh ... that's right ... they make that funky little SIS chipset board, too ... Lord only knows why!
I guess the thing that I don't understand is why AMD keeps trying to advance their CPU technology while all of the companies who are manufacturing motherboards for their CPUs are basically failing miserably. They need to manufacture their own motherboards for their CPUs that actually WORK, with a GOOD bios.

WOW, well, you're defintately right... Ali/Sis/Via all suck as far as chipsets go (Via actually isn't bad at all if you're not doing audio stuff, but I still wouldn't touch em). AMD's chipset is great though (what I'm currently using), but I didn't seem to find those on anything but their dual proc. board (which I hear kicks ass).

As for their new opterons.... I know for a fact that they're putting them out with their own Mobo (at least as one of the Mobo choices, but I'm sure that'll be the best one being that it'll come with the AMD chipset). Intel chipsets are usually really solid too, but obviously that doesn't help the AMD user out, darn.

As for mobo manufactures... I went out on a limb with this Tyan board (good board, bad support), but I don't think I'd be willing to risk getting an MSI or Gigabyte Mobo.. scarey stuff. I can't think of any other Mobo manufacturers that I like aside from Intel ASUS and Abit (let me know if I'm leaving someone out). Ok, been recording for like the last 6 hours and it's now 4:30 AM, must sleep. later.

I just re-read your post above, hehe, I guess you're saying that you want an Ali chipset AMD board.... I've just heard nothing but bad things about Ali chipsets from my friend (trust his opinion like it was my own) and from other disgruntled users. Oh well, what do you like about em.. just curious. Ok, really, I'm outta hea.

See...Sos don't care as much about chipsets as we do ted...he's into the R.Ed system which don't care much about the chipsets...I agree with ted on the mainboard manufacturer issue...it's Asus all the way for me...no one else. Won't go there. I've had nothing but great luck with Asus boards and won't dare switch!
As far as chipsets go..Intel for me man. I aint takin no chance. I tried that once with that damn Sis chipset and it bit me in the ass pretty hard!
AMD vs Intel...well, it boils down to the chipset issue again! I like how AMD has fast FPU calculations but as we see Intel is right on their ass(in fact studying their ass pretty closely it seems!)
Tom's Hardware...seems more and more people think that guy is paid off to say what he says! lol
I don't go by his word...the word I go by is what people that are using the stuff have to say!
Opus

Its hard to dismiss SIS chipsets completely, just yet. Although my ANUS machine is a smooth tracking box, I did notice how powerful my AMD XP1600/SIS 735 machine is at rendering filters.
Also, ASUS's experience with Intel chipsets is well proven, but they have had to make revisions on faulty board designs before. I'll agree though, VIA's had thier turn at bat, and they suck :p

I have a feeling that the Sis chipsets are those situations where they require exact memory types..in other words it might not work on certain brands vs others...
I'd be willing to try it again but maybe sometime in the future..
I'm waiting for true 64bit all around...OS, Processor, applications...etc etc before I build another machine for myself!
Opus

Agreed Opus. Chipsets are crucial, especially in dealing with audio driven computers (I forget that I'm not talking in a computer forum, but more precisely an audio computer forum). Yeah, Intel makes some sweet shit though, I have to admit that. Also as for the 64bit all around stuff, evidently Microsoft has already committed to making a 64 bit only version of XP that they plan to realease with the AMD opteron's. I'm definately not going to upgrade until then, it just wouldn't make sense. Oh yeah, Asus boards rock. As for the SIS chipsets.... I've heard soooooo many bad things about those, I would never consider buying one unless they put out some NEW model that had nothing to do with the technology behind the old ones, and if everybody was raving about it... AND if Intel bought out SIS and started just putting Sis labels on their chips, but that's about the only way.

The reason that I favor the Ali Magik chipset is that, from all that I've studied, it seems to be the only real solution at this point. The AMD boards have VIA southbridges, SIS is nothing but problems, and I still haven't seen a single post about anyone trying the nVidia chipset for audio, plus it's still too new, with bugs. Apparently, the Ali chipset boards are a bitch to get up and running, but once they're up, they fucking rock. And for anyone reading this, I HIGHLY recommend the iWill company. Their service is fucking AWESOME! As some of you know, I've had some probs. IWill told me to send them all of my components and they would get it to work one way or the other! So, I dismantled everything, packed it all up carefully, and shipped it off. I called them today, and they got the package. The tech told me he will do my system first thing tomorrow morning, and call me when he has it up and running. I don't know if all mobo companies will do stuff like this for their customers, but I'm impressed. So, with any luck, THE BUILD IV will happen next week, and I should then have a working PC. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

As to the Ali Magik Chipsets-

Asus A7A266 and Iwill KA266-R with chipset ALiMAGIK 1

Several users report significant performance problems when using the Hammerfall and DIGI96 series. The Hammerfall can't be used even at the highest latency setting, the DIGI96 series shows sub-average performance.

Comment: As far as we know the Ali chipset MAGIK 1 is the slowest of all DDR-RAM chipsets, it is even slower than the fastest PC133 chipset. Additionally it offers a PCI-bus performance that can hardly be lower. The Hammerfall, which requires a constant transfer rate of 9 MByte/s (52 channels I/O at 44.1 kHz), can't be used with this board at all. The DIGI96 series works, but suffers from bad performance. While DIGICheck will normally measure a transfer rate of more than 30 MByte/s (on Intel boards up to 130 MByte/s, which is the maximum transfer rate of the PCI-bus), the ALi-based boards reach sensational 8 (eight) MByte/s. Therefore we have to warn against boards using this ALi chipset. And we are not alone. Hauppauge, manufacturer of TV cards, also mentions the ALi chipset as critical.

As to the AMD chipsets having a VIA Southbridge-

Chipset
AMD-760 MPX chipset
AMD-762 north bridge & AMD-768 south bridge
Winbond W83627HF Super I/O ASIC

The Ali thing is fromt the RME website, and the AMD chipset excerpt is from Tyans website.

SOS...anytime you have to work to get something working is not an ideal situation...you of all people should know this! After all your problems I am truly surprised you stayed with the same motherboard...three strikes and you're out rule applies there! With an Asus board you would have been up and running by now!
Opus

Yeah, my friends IWILL(explode) motherboard was takin a crap on him too. Yeah, they have good support and are willing to work with you, cause they know they make a terrible product and NEED to be all supportive. The best bet you have with that computer is just to take a nice luscious poo in your computer case, close it all up, and launch it via trebuchet back to Iwill's headquarters (setting it on fire somewhere in there wouldn't be a bad idea either).

Hehe, but seriously, they might have the best support ever, but their products do lack IMO. Personally, I'd be pretty pissed if a motherboard didn't work the first time around (though it's not really the manufacturers fault being that the motherboard IS the most sensitive piece of electronics in a computer). Still, I hate it when stuff doesn't work. You pay for something... it should do what it's supposed to, ya know? Good luck with the Iwill anyway.

Hey, TD - "launch it via trebuchet" - Great idea!! Can I add some to the load? Got a few "cannon balls" of my own... Did you by chance see PBS's story on the trebuchet DIY fest over in (I think) Scotland? Man, those things are wicked when done right! They were launching sandstone balls about 3 feet in diameter, several hundred yards and blasting holes thru 3' thick brick walls big enough to ride a horse through! What a trip... Steve

HAHA, yeah, sure did knightfly (though I must say I've been a fan of the good ol' trebuchet for many years now)! That one guy had one that'd launch a piano, then he decided to launch a volkswagon beetle! There's something oddly pleasing about that. I'm totally going to build my own, and maybe one day I'll be able to trebuchet a house into the pacific ocean or something! Hehe.

Hey ted you don't need to build one to put it in the pacific...just wait till all of cali drops off the face of the earth for that to happen! :D

Oh, great, now I'm the laughing stock! Thanks a lot, guys!
Iwill called at 11AM today. My puter works ... sorta. They had to install a BIOS update which fixed an issue with Samsung memory. However, also, they found that my video card wasn't compatible with the XP333 or several of their other boards. They recommended that I buy a good GeForce or Matrox card for it. They had it running while they were talking to me, with a GeForce4 card in it, and said it was all set. They said it was being shipped back to me today, but I'll have to get a new video card before I can get it up and running. I'm thinking ... a Matrox G550 from Newegg. Sound good?

Didn't I ask you that SOS? I had asked you if the Video card was the AGP split with the 1.5V?
I knew it.... :roll:
Opus

Opus: "I had asked you if the Video card was the AGP split with the 1.5V?
I knew it.... "
Ummm ... huh? AGP split with the 1.5v? I have no clue what you're talking about.
My Appian Geronimo Pro is a PCI video card. Does that have anything to do with what you're saying? I tried another PCI video card, but that didn't work either. As far as splitting any voltages ... ??? ... please explain. You know me ... you might as well be talking about splitting an atom ... lol. I know the basics about how things should be connected, and some of the do's and don'ts, but I'm no puter genius ... obviously.
Okay, anywho, I have to buy an AGP video card. For safety's sake, I'm guessing that I should get a Matrox G550. As you know, the PC will eventually be running a SS system, but for now, I'll be using it for playing games, internet, and graphics design. Will the Matrox card be real good for playing high tech games? Given the fact that the PC will never be used for host-based recording, will I possibly be better-off with a different video card for gaming? Maybe a 64Mb GeForce? Or an ATI 8500? Please advise. I need to order right away ... the stuff will be back from Iwill any day.

BUMP!

SOS, the Matrox dual head cards (G450, G550) are optimized for what they do best, which is 2D, not 3D, dual display primarily for business use. They might be OK for non-realtime graphics such as CAD/Photoshop, etc, but they suck for games. Pick up almost any issue of MaximumPC mag and they'll tell you which is the latest greatest 3000 whiz-bang game video card. Almost all of those will impact audio performance when tweaked for best frame rate and realism in games - Whatever card you use, it should NOT be on the PCI bus if you're doing anything that requires massive thru-put to hard drive (PCI bus).

If you want this PC to later run your SS system, and won't want to upgrade everything to the latest/greatest at that time, I would buy TWO video cards that are compatible with your machine TODAY. One would be the G550 (test it and then put it back in the box and save it for later) the other would be whatever current gamer type card you can afford. Put that card in the 'puter, play games, draw, etc, then change back to the G550 when you get the bux for the SS system. Both of these cards should be AGP in order not to clog the PCI bus. Getting both cards now will ensure that when you get the SS system, you'll have compatible technology for your 'puter that will support multi-monitors when that becomes important to you.

I think what Opus was talking about on voltages, is that newer AGP cards run on lower (1.5 volt) voltages and some older Mobo's are not compatible. I don't remember all the details and I have no use for AMD crap for audio machines, so no experience there. What I do know is that I would rather spend time playing the several instruments I sorta play than batting my head on an un-cooperative 'puter that could be a working machine by just spending a couple hundred more dollars on an Intel system that actually works.

Not tryin' to rag on you, just a wakeup call from someone who's done his share of "blood-soaked brick walls" - If you want to fuck with computers, get an AMD system and try to make it work for audio. If you want to make music, do an ANUS and get back to playing your guitar. You've helped me out before, this is my attempt at returning the favor... Steve

Steve, believe me ... that's good advice. If I had it to do all over again, I'd build an ANUS. I had no idea of the shit I'd be getting into with this damn AMD. However, the damage is done.
The shipment from iWill is due to be delivered to me tomorrow. The iWill tech assured me that the system is up and running and that the specs are real good on it. They "played" with it a bit, and told me that I can O/C it quite a bit if I want to. It's a 950 Athlon, so my idea is just to tweak it a hair to bring it up to a gig, but that's it. I don't want to push it.
I guess I'll go with a GeForce video card as opposed to an ATI. I gather that they're better all around. I might have to drive in to Vegas today, if so I'll see if I can get a deal on one there. If not, I guess I'll have to order one from Newegg or Mwave.
Thanks for the info on the G550. If I get a GeForce with dual monitor support, then I won't need to get both, so that's an option, too. I'll just have to see what I can find.

SOS, I know what you mean. In my "neck-o-the-woods", it's called closing the barn door after the horse gets out...

I would be really careful getting a non-Matrox video card with the idea of actually using the dual head feature - most of the ones I've seen have more restrictions than your average cell phone plan! Second output only Digital, or only SVGA, or only digital unless you buy a daughter card for XGA, etc - The matrox lets you use a second XGA monitor, or a composite video monitor up to 1280 x 1024, etc - Caveat Emptor to the 9th power, man. Try to ask all the questions you could ever imagine coming up as if you were actually installing and using the second monitor. If you don't like the answers, RUN!!! Best of luck, it's about fuckin' time you had some of the other kind... Steve

Yeah, I know what you mean about the dual display options. I will be using the dual monitor feature sometimes, and they're both regular CRT monitors.
I found one that looks like just what I need. It's a MSI GeForce4 MX440 VTP. With shipping, it'll run me $107. Here's the link, tell me what you think...
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/vga/vga_detail.asp?model=g4mx440-vtp
I think it will be adequate for everything I'll need to do, both now and later.

my bad SOS...I forgot you had a PCI :p
Opus

Hehehe, you gotta quit smokin that shit, Bro. Those munchies will make you FAT! :D

Hey, Opus - if not from over-WORKING, maybe from over-TOKING??? :=)

SOS, checked out the link and the only MINOR fly in the ointment you probably won't care about. The MSI card apparently supports only up to 1024 x 768 in TV out mode. This would be a possible problem for me, but you may not care. Here is the problem for me: I intend to set up two computers, one for soft synths/samplers, and one for tracking. The only diff between the two will probably be # of drives. I already have one 21" Idek monitor on the old DAW, and plan to get another so each 'puter can have a 21". For the second monitor on each, I intend to try a TV Monitor first (already have one) on screens such as virtual faders, and other not-so-critical screen real estate. In order to get at least 24 faders across a screen, you need at least 1280 x 1024. The Matrox card does this, but won't satisfy YOU for gaming. So, if you won't care about slightly less resolution (and real estate) when using a TV Monitor on the second video out, then no prob - Go with the MSI. Seems like a good price for all it does. Just make sure it's the VTP version, so it won't limit your options.

Plus, if it doesn't work we'll BOTH blame Opus, now that we have his signed confession regarding "smoke"... Steve (sounds of evil laughter fading into triangular dither)

nah SOS...I got a high metabolism..for which my roomate truly hates me for ;)
Opus

I appreciate you bringing that to my attention, but I'll probably never use the TV out. I just need the two VGA outs. I have a 17" and a 15", one for the Mac, & one for the PC, but I'll occasionally unplug the one from the Mac and use it.
The puter parts are scheduled to be delivered today via UPS. So, I'll go ahead and order the graphics card today, and as soon as it gets here I should be ready to rock. I'm going to have a positive attitude, and call it, "The Final Build". That, plus if it doesn't work this time I'm going to dismantle the mother fucker with an axe, so there won't be another build ... LOL.

"The Final Build". That, plus if it doesn't work this time I'm going to dismantle the mother fucker with an axe, so there won't be another build ... LOL.

Hey now! :eek:

Make that a DULL axe - more swings = more frustration released... :=)

There may be more fustration trying to get dual VGA monitors to work with an Nvidia based card. I've read they never worked well. But Matrox software for dual set-up is so polished...

But hey, if you need dual VGA and respectable gaming/3D, how would the ATI RadeonVE fill that bill? Its less expensive too. ;)

but I'll occasionally unplug the one from the Mac and use it.

Its been a while since I sold off my two Mac comps, but I remember I could use a PC monitor with the Mac and an adapter, but the Apple monitors don't work with PC's. Is this still true? :confused:

No, you can get adapters so that they work with them!
Seen it done!
Opus