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Cucco 10 March 2007

Hey guys!

Here's a new sample. It's Strauss's Serenade For 13 Winds as performed live by the Washington Sinfonietta Orchestra on February 16th in DC's Capital City Christian Church.

This particular recording was made using entirely Schoeps microphones (with the exception of two Gefells flown in the hall for ambience and brought in only lightly) and Millennia HV3D preamps. Channels in total - 10 (VERY live sanctuary - needed a lot of spots). Sampling rate - 176kHz @ 24 bit.

The mp3 is a lowly 192kbps since the entire work is listed as a sample. Therefore, the download is RATHER large at 15MB.

It is a live recording in 2 ways. Live in front of an audience and in a VERY live venue.

No processing was done on this recording at all. No EQ, no nothing.

Setup took 4 hours with an hour of tweaking once the musicians were in place.

Here's the clip:

(Dead Link Removed)

Feel free to comment and critique/criticize.

Phil-

If you happen to listen to this clip - one of the oboists you hear here will be the oboist that I hire for your gig.

Cheers!

Jeremy

Comments

Boswell Sat, 03/10/2007 - 14:59

Jeremy - this sounds lovely, especially the high winds. The only comment I would make is that I feel one (or possibly two) of the horns left of centre is a little too prominent, although I can't tell whether this is the balance of ensemble or the recording. Having played in this piece myself, I know how difficult it is for the musicians to balance their ensemble, and I think this group on the whole make a really good job of it, at least in the sample you posted.

BTW, why does the applause sound so coloured when the instruments are so clean?

Cucco Sat, 03/10/2007 - 17:06

Thanks Boswell. I appreciate the comments.

I know the exact spots you're referring to regarding the lower horns. I'm afraid that's just the way it was.

The applause is so different because the orchestra was seated on marble, the audience on carpet (and padded seats). There is a definite shift though isn't there?

drumist69 Sat, 03/10/2007 - 20:51

Not that I know what I'm talking about as far as classical music/recording goes...but I thought the right side was more prominent, mainly the horns I guess. The winds sounded nice! The balance issue could be the computer speakers? Again, I know not what I speak of, but that's what I heard here and now. ANDY

Cucco Sun, 03/11/2007 - 11:50

Thanks...I think...:)

How do you mean - "it doesn't really [sound] that live to my ear?"

Do you mean that it sounds as though it's a multi-take session? There aren't enough mistakes? (There's a few...quite a few...) Or just that the recording itself sounds heavily produced?

I'm not sure if I can post anything that soon. My recording computer is now on-site for a week-long of sessions.

Cucco Mon, 03/12/2007 - 07:48

Thanks rfreez! I appreciate the kind words.

SRS - I thought that might have been you. I just ordered another one. Damn - shipping is expensive on those. I don't remember that.

Andy -

Thanks for the comments and nice words. There is a slight balance shift, but I felt that it was towards the left (if memory serves me right) which makes sense as the horns were slightly off to the left. Is it possible your speakers are backwards??

ghellquist Mon, 03/12/2007 - 12:25

Hi Cucco.

Really nice recording. Not much I can say really, bowing to the master. Just perhaps, might be an mp3 thing, but perhaps a bit of high pass filter could be beneficial, perhaps a bit of air blowers going on in the sub frequencys.

Could not avoid to compare to my own humble try at an recording. Live in a church as well. Mind you, these are amateurs, my normal little orchestra (no trombones here though). The equipment is Motu 828mkII + Line Audio mic preamp. Main pair is KM184, various other mics. Done februari 29, 2004. Not the best of mp3 codings, had to stay within 10MByte.

http://hem.bredband.net/trombonisten/Strauss2.mp3

Gunnar

Boswell Mon, 03/12/2007 - 17:20

I do love those Schoeps! They work superbly well on this combination of instruments. The highs are clear with no shrillness and the bass from the two lower strings and the contrafaggot is really firm. (Am I allowed to say that?)

I'm not sure I could live with this performance if it were on CD, though. I felt that one of the clarinetists is not in time with the rest of the performers through some of the rubato sections. Can't fault the recording, other than to say that, as in the Strauss, the horns are quite forward - not unacceptably, it's just that I'm not used to hearing the ensemble balanced in that way.

I'm envious of the gigs you get to do!

Cucco Mon, 03/12/2007 - 17:35

Haha...you can say "firm" on the boards....

Yeah, I get kinda lucky with the gigs.

I've got that 6 hour bach organ festival coming up next week, the same ensemble as in the clips is doing Faure's Requiem early next month, plus I'll be recording jazz legend Ramsey Lewis next month as well. I've got a couple things airing on XM Classics and Pops coming up soon. (I'll spill those beans as soon as I'm allowed.)

I hear you about the horns...
They're all good friends and drinking buddies (and section mates in other orchestras.) They're phenomenal players, but that church is so hard on horns...

Cucco Tue, 03/13/2007 - 05:23

Yeah, these horns definitely aren't a weakness in this orchestra. It's probably as much my fault as it is the horn players. To get any definition, I had to bring up the spot a little. Since they're firing backwards into a marble bubble, they get really washed out if I don't. Besides...as a horn player, I'm definitely guilty of bias. :)

Cucco Wed, 03/14/2007 - 09:55

No...sadly not this go around. I didn't have time.

Also, I had to play photographer for the group as well, so my photo rig consisted of a high-zoom lens mounted to a digital SLR (Sigma 80-200 F2.8 with Minolta Maxxum 7D) located in the rear of the sanctuary and I had to move my mics out of the pictures for the photo shoot. So, unfortunately no time for roving shots...

I've got two other gigs in that sanctuary next week. 1 is that Bach festival (SO excited!!) and the next day, I'm recording a Soprano recital. If I get a chance, I'll post some pics of those events...

Also, in April, I'm recording the same ensemble again performing the Faure Requiem, Haydn's Little Mass and Faure's Pavane. I'll probably be able to squeeze off some shots for that as well.

anonymous Thu, 03/15/2007 - 02:13

Cucco wrote: Strauss's Serenade For 13 Winds as performed live by the Washington Sinfonietta Orchestra on February 16th in DC's Capital City Christian Church.
(Dead Link Removed)
Feel free to comment and critique/criticize.

To be honest, I find the sound a bit too ambient... I'd prefer a little more presence / directness.
Interestingly, some of the orchestral samples on your website are rather dry... 8)

BTW, your website does not display correctly in Opera and Mozilla - the scrollbar in the central frame is missing...

Out of curiosity, have you got any samples that were recorded with the M296 as main pair?

Daniel

Cucco Thu, 03/15/2007 - 06:38

Interesting comments...
Thank you.

Regarding wetness/dryness...I mostly do live work and am thus at the mercy of the venue. Rather than attempting to alter this through mechanical means (reverb, etc) I simply embrace the cards I'm dealt. In very rare instances, I will use a touch of IR reverb.

In this case, the sanctuary (marble) has RT60 times of up to 4 seconds and it's quite lush.

I don't have any samples with the 296s as mains. In the event that I use omnis as mains, I almost always use Schoeps as they're far more flattering and less ruthless. The Gefells are amazing, but I liken them to a camera capable of clearly showing pimples on supermodel's arses through several layers of clothing.

I will, however, likely be using them on the upcoming organ recital as my mains as they are rather delightfully not shy in the upper register (not harsh or strident but EXTREMELY open and revealing.)

If the Faure comes out well, I'll post some clips.

Cheers!
J

anonymous Thu, 03/15/2007 - 09:20

Cucco wrote:
In this case, the sanctuary (marble) has RT60 times of up to 4 seconds and it's quite lush.

Nowt wrong with that... I just think I'd personally have pulled up the spots a touch more, like in this short example of a recording in an extremely reverberant cathedral... http://indienserver-de.www6.stangermedia.net/jauchzet.mp3 (faded out at the end)

I don't have any samples with the 296s as mains. In the event that I use omnis as mains, I almost always use Schoeps as they're far more flattering and less ruthless. The Gefells are amazing, but I liken them to a camera capable of clearly showing pimples on supermodel's arses through several layers of clothing.

I see... :D
They were always on my wishlist, but then I got a pair of KM131 at a great price and really like them. That and other purchases have taken the 296 off the list for now...

Daniel

Cucco Thu, 03/15/2007 - 09:38

Ah...I see by your clip we mean slightly different things with our spots.

The spots I used here were not individual instrument or section mics, rather an extra, closer pair over the ww's in general.

Here's how the tracks were laid out:
2 omnis in hall for ambience
2 cardioids overhead (ORTF)
1 wide card spot on cello (not used in these examples)
1 wide card on horns (used very little in these samples)
MS pair over ww's
1 card for concertmaster (not used at all)
1 card for harp
ORTF pair on piano.

You'll see that in many cases, there was no additional sot to pull up.

On both selections, you are hearing the MS pair at unity with the omni ambience mics at -12dB unity. Only a little horn spot is mixed in for the sake of clarity, not amplitude. That's it.

I couldn't add more mics since this was a live performance with photos needed for the orchestra's publicity.

As for the Gefells, I understand your choice. They're expensive and not useful for all things (like the Schoeps are). They remind a bit of DPAs except for the fact that I LIKE the Gefells and can't say the same for most DPAs.

anonymous Thu, 03/15/2007 - 09:52

Cucco wrote: Ah...I see by your clip we mean slightly different things with our spots.

Maybe not... I rarely use individual spots and often use just two or three mics for ww "spotting" in orchestra recordings. Same here, the main pair is KM 140 ORTF (with some LP filtered KM130 omnis thrown in for the organ's bass) plus two closer-up AKG cardioids (CK61)...

As for the Gefells, I understand your choice. They're expensive and not useful for all things (like the Schoeps are). They remind a bit of DPAs except for the fact that I LIKE the Gefells and can't say the same for most DPAs.

As it were, I've disliked most Schoepses I've tried (never tried Schoeps omnis, though). :wink:

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