Originally posted by Alexander P. Barkey:
On Justin Timberlakes "Cry Me A River" (produced by Timbaland) u can hear this special basedrum timbaland always uses. it sounds nice n soft. somehow in the background but got just the right punch to still be a basedrum... i tried so much on mine... short halls... eqs...hard compression...all ... i didn't get close to this...

anyone knows how to get a sound like this??

Honestly do not even know of the track/sound you're reffering to but, I can tell you that to usually achieve a duplicate of something that specific (especially in that genre) we're talking about having that same sample(s) that he's using to achieve it...and NOT any eq/comp/fx of another sound.

i don't wanna use the sample (yet). It's just about knowing how to... music and especially mixing is a learning process.

i often "reprogram" or "redo" sounds or effects i hear that are special. not to use 'em right away. i just wanna know how they did it.

the other thing is...when u know something... u can (sometimes) make it better.

Hi APB,

I know exactly where you're coming from.

I was having a conversation with a friend of mine on this very subject just yesterday.

He's a DJ trying to crossover to engineering. He's of the school of "sample everything you want to use off of an existing record(CD)to get that sound". Kicks, Snares, Hats, you name it.

He was playing a track for me and I gotta admit, it did sound pretty good for what it was but to me no real work was put into actually creating the sound of the track. In other words, All the real work was already done for him by other engineers.

He coudn't tell me how his kick was made to sound the way that it did or even why it sounded the way it did. And he sure as hell couldn't recreate a sound as you've described. All he knew or cared about was that all his sounds were already EQ'd and mastered.

we were discussing at the time how he created his drum tracks from music that had already been mastered and I remember him saying somthing to the effect of "Yeah..I know you like to create your own drum tracks from scratch using your modules and recording real drums...Blah..blah..blah".

And my response to him was "Well...if I'm gonna call myself an engineer, I'm suppose to know how to achieve whatever sound I'm looking for and if I ran across something I didn't know how to do, I needed to learn how to do it".

It just makes me feel better to know that when I tell someone...Yeah!! "I mixed that", I really did do all the work (recording & shaping the sound).

What I got from your above post was that you feel the same way. You don't just want to know that the machine works, You want to know how it works. To have an understanding of how it all works together makes the task at hand that much easier.

This way of thinking my friend will make you one hell of an engineer in the future.

All this was not to say we shouldn't use samples in our music. I mean let's face it, Most of the music we hear today is created with, and probably couldn't be created without the use of samples.

All in all, Audio Engineering, just like playing a guitar or playing the drums, etc....is an art that requires knowledge and skills of the artform. Just doesn't seem right to be able to claim the title without em'.

Am I Ranting......? :D :p:

(Sorry I can't answer your original post right now. I don't have the track you're talking about. I'll see if I can get it and get back to ya' on it)

great posting :-) and you're right. sampling is cool and easy but knowing is the true power.

Bass drum sounds are not all that hard once you start to get the hang of it ...
There are some huge factors that must be understood for those who do not play drums..
These are all BEFORE any effects EQ etc.
Small bass drums will sould tighter (18"-20"), and oddly to many, the 20" may well be the best overall recording size, since you can get a good "wet" kick sound with some clear heads and a felt beater, as well as a great open sound with white coated heads and the same beater.

The 18" is going to work best with jazz

The 22" will get a great "wet" rock sound with clear heads, and perhaps a good open sound with coated heads, but not as often, and it's range of sound may not work that well with toms .. in recording .. we're not talking live.

So, the drill is to start with one kick drum, with YOU hitting it. Try clear hrads on a 20" kick, with a front head and a 6" hole on the bottom right of the front head. Tune the beater head up just enough so it is not "wrinkled". Place a moleskin ( here in the USA, a Dr. Scholls molesking patch, bought at a drug store .. used for shoes) patch on the beater head and use a dense, full sized beater, not these little round plastic things found on newer Tama pedals. The moleskin patch will round out the beater attack, better than some hard "special" drum patch. The dense full sized beater will provide the mass and deliver better force upon impact. Consistantly delivered force on impact is everything in drums for sound.
Tune the front head like the beater head.Place a medium sized bath towel inside the shell, and have it slightly touch the bottom of the inside beater head .. note the change in sound as you increase and decrease the contact and contact area. Place a good kick mic inside the head, 1/3 up from the bottom of the shell, and perhaps (as a starting point), 1/3 in from the front head, point the mic toward, and slightly off from the beater impact spot. Move the mic in toward the beater head for more attack, less bottom, and out from the beater head for rounder, less attack.

On the EQ end, toy with boosting the area of 3-5k, while listening at a VERY low, soft conversation level volume. Notice when the definition occurs, then move that mic in, out etc and retry that same thing with 3-5k.
The low end of the kick will require matching it with the particular bass track in the end, but my guess is you'll end up cutting some low mids, and perhaps adding or cutting at 55-60hz as well.

Once you get accustomed to understanding what you're really hearing from this kick, it will apply to others, and you'll know a useable kick sound in a heartbeat.

The final key here is to realise that you need to hear the kick defined at that very low volume .. this is the ultimate key. Mail me for more info if you like!