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[MEDIA=soundcloud]devon-vonmonster/class-warfare-9-24-14[/MEDIA]Another late night of mixing a rock tune in my AT50s. Let me know if I'm getting beefier tones out of my kick and bass. The song has a 1/2 time feel into a "blazing speed" section, so I played with some automation on the gate re: the kicks
Here is "Class Warfare"

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anonymous Wed, 09/24/2014 - 05:46

well, I'm certainly hearing enough presence and "click" on the kick... which is, from what I understand, considered to be tonally acceptable and popular for the style.

But...I wouldn't go as far as to describe the kick as being "beefy", ... Although that's one of those relative terms - relative to what you consider "beefy" to be. ;)

When I think "beefy" , especially on a kick drum, I'm thinking about low end "push", sometimes even down as low as 50 - 60 hz. There are other tonal descriptive terms as well... terms like "weight", which is generally considered to be that region near or around 200-300, "body", which is near or around 300 - 450. Beefy is a larger expanse... as low as 50, and all the way up to 200, or thereabouts.

I'm not hearing much - if any - in that region on the kick drum, or, on the bass guitar either, for that matter.

I'm also hearing quite a bit of compression going on - this could be because you've added it, or it could be that it's a part of the sample itself.

It's possible that your headphones may be lying to you in that low-end-"beef" range... that you think you have enough around 90 - 150 ...when you actually don't.
It's not uncommon for manufacturers to "hype" their headphones in certain frequency ranges, and low end is one of the more commonly-hyped areas.

So, you are hearing what you feel to be sufficient low end, because it's been hyped/exaggerated on the phones, when in truth, it's not really there, it's only a result of a speaker designed to add those frequencies.
You hear enough (or maybe even a bit too much) so you either leave it alone, or, maybe even attenuate it because you think you have too much ...when you really don't.

This is why so few audio professionals will choose to mix through headphones. It's not uncommon to occasionally reference a mix through cans, but as far as mixing, it's not common.

I'm listening through a pair of Alesis Monitor One (passives), w/ a 6.5" woofer, and while they're not gonna knock walls down with low end, they are capable of efficiently reproducing down to 50hz or so... and I'm not hearing the "beef" you desire. It's very thin.

(FWIW, I just listened to this mix through a pair of AKG K240's (it's just what I had lying around and hooked up) and the low end is very shy in them as well.)

Have you listened to this mix through speakers?

pcrecord Thu, 09/25/2014 - 03:14

Most pro on the web will say you have to decide the relationship between the bass and the bass drum. For some style they will prefer the bass drum on top of the bass and for others the bass on top. What it mean is that one would reside near 60 hz and the other near 80 hz. That way they are fighting less. Most pop music has the bassdrum on top and most hip hop has the bass on top. There's no law about it, you need to decide.
BUT, what they rarely talk about is the higher part of the bass sound. And for a reason unknown, many engineer will kind of low pass the bass around 200-300hz or accept that the bass player does it with his tone knob. I personnaly think it's a mistake (or at least not to my taste). I know that many times they are trying to compensate for noisy pickups but I find it sad that the bass is minimised that way. My bass (an average 5 strings Yamaha) has some good HF spectrum and I feel the if I cut it, it would kill its unique character.
Character and presence doesn't happen bellow 100hz. (my personnal taste again)

That being said, I agree with Donny, in that mix, I don't feel enough action in the low area. But I wouldn't go and just boost 30-60.
To me, the bass drum can stay like it is, if the bass fill the empty space around it. So maybe it only needs a level up of 3-4db, maybe it needs more compression or a presence boost. It depends on the original recording.

Ah Yes, you definetly need monitors. Even cheap ones will get you further than headphones.

anonymous Fri, 09/26/2014 - 02:01

pcrecord, post: 419695, member: 46460 wrote:
That being said, I agree with Donny, in that mix, I don't feel enough action in the low area. But I wouldn't go and just boost 30-60..

Nor would I. EQ would be far better served on the track level(s), and not attempting to correct it by strapping a low end EQ boost across the whole mix.