Here is a very useless answer.

Take two minutes and google what the difference is between vst and rtas, who can use them and who cannot, is there a vst to rtas converter and do I need it?

I like to think of it as the "diy-answer poll".

hi sorry, i've been researching for about 2 months now. clocked WELL over 2 minutes. more like, well, 2 months.

normally, it doesn't matter cuz i'm not spending money. i LIKE research. but if i'm spending money, i'd like to not rely solely on myself.

don't think of this post as a cop out. you don't even know me, or how much research i've already done. plus, i'm a songwriter, not a computer tech or an sound engineer. my job is lyrics and chords. if you were to ask me songwriting advice, i'd just give the advice. not tell you to learn chord theory or get a rhyming dictionary.

don't post if you're not going to be helpful. that's just lame attempts for attention.

attempting to point out another person's ignorance or laziness kinda backfires when you don't personally know who you're insulting.

why even post a response like that? YOU don't google everything. otherwise you wouldn't be here either.

does this mean i should just not bother with this forum at all? is that what this leads to? i could offered TONS of advice on the things i know how to do. i ask one question about something i dont' know about, and suddenly i'm lazy.

get bent

As much as I appreciate the many free and decent VST's out there. I really don't think they compare to the majority of RTAS plug ins. I don't know if this is just my perception of the plugs because I bought into PtoTools or if they actually do sound better. For sure the basic D-Verb is better than any reverb I've heard in a free VST and the Bombfactory compressors are far more subtle than anything I've found in a free, included VST plugin.

That being said, when you pay for good plugins (ie:Waves, UAD-1, TC-Powercore), They will sound good regardless of the format. It's just a matter of compatibility at that point.

Right. In your 2 months of research, you should have realised that:

VST is a format of plugins for a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT platform than RTAS is.
RTAS is for ProTools, VST is for everything else.

Everything else in your post makes me want to double facepalm.

Space's post IS helpful - he's asking if you actually know what the difference is between these 2. If you did, you would surely realise that the 2 are completely different and yet entirely similar beasts.
They're both fish but one is a shark and one is a school of tuna.

How do you compare those?
I mean, I like tuna better, it's normally less vicious.

Now, if all you want is a personal opinion, then why not make it clearer instead of asking which is better which to most people here will probably mean from a technical standpoint.

It's still moot though, because you can't swap between them without a wrapper - meaning it's entirely down to what platform you use.
I use Kristal on a PC and therefore I use freeware VSTs. I find that they're my only choice and it's not something I spend time considering.

Rainyday: Give it a chance. There are some jaded people on this forum and rightly so. There are a lot of pirates and just thick headed people out there. Sift through the resent though and there are some gems of information if your question is presented the right way.

Incidentally, I don't think it was a bad or inappropriate question in any way.

Who gives a fuck.
Plugins suck.

Bad use of plugins suck.

Used correctly, they can improve and do things that are completely awesome.

I think the question is valid if you have yet to choose a platform. Maybe he's in between DAWs. I use both but I prefer the RTAS plugins I do have with the odd exception(Magix Variverb Pro).

Dayam... who opened the nasty gate this morning???

Sheese...

rainy's admitted being a relative noob... while fun can regularly abound in blasting newbs. (A joyous past time in some haunts) it generally stay's pretty civil here.

However, I will say that there quite a few folks around here who see a bombardment or newbie-esque, over simplified and relatively inane styled questions, and it's not quite calling the sharks... (chumming real good and heavy, MIGHT, call one or two biggin's in to chew some ass) but otherwise, it's more like chumming Koi with bread crumbs.

Seriously, if you need to know the basics, just ask in one decent conversational post. Folks do share here... most of the time.

Looks like you can hold your own, so I prolly don't need to say much more than welcome to the fray... and it's ok to put complex issues in one post... If they can't handle it... well... at least you only wasted your time in one thread.

Personally, I stay in TDM except for Echo Boy and McDSP, so I'm not really gonna be of much help.

Thanks CM. Actually the question is valid. It opened up the door for more information, as hueseph and CM presented. None of which, btw, have a thing to do with which is better or even speaks directly to the "poll".

In general, overall, a poll is the first indication that the "pol-er" is uninformed.

"attempting to point out another person's ignorance or laziness kinda backfires when you don't personally know who you're insulting."

See, I wasn't doing any of that...none of it.

VST is a common platform used by the multitude...it is at mass saturation already. So the question is wrong and really has no answer in that respect.

Link:
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.tweakhea…"]Making sense of the VSTi, DXi, MAS, RTAS, and AU Jungle[/]="http://www.tweakhea…"]Making sense of the VSTi, DXi, MAS, RTAS, and AU Jungle[/]

The above link is the answer, as it where, to your question, less the poll.

I recommend searching because it is akin to having all the encyclopedias available to the user in near real time. Granted incorrect information will be presented, but this is where the user must persevere to find well documented and trusted support.

So now I will answer your poll question with 100 percent accuracy:
I like VST plugs because I cannot use RTAS plugs. :)

Hope this helps,

Brien

Codemonkey wrote: Right. In your 2 months of research, you should have realised that:

VST is a format of plugins for a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT platform than RTAS is.
RTAS is for ProTools, VST is for everything else.

Everything else in your post makes me want to double facepalm.

Space's post IS helpful - he's asking if you actually know what the difference is between these 2. If you did, you would surely realise that the 2 are completely different and yet entirely similar beasts.
They're both fish but one is a shark and one is a school of tuna.

How do you compare those?
I mean, I like tuna better, it's normally less vicious.

Now, if all you want is a personal opinion, then why not make it clearer instead of asking which is better which to most people here will probably mean from a technical standpoint.

It's still moot though, because you can't swap between them without a wrapper - meaning it's entirely down to what platform you use.
I use Kristal on a PC and therefore I use freeware VSTs. I find that they're my only choice and it's not something I spend time considering.

ok, i didn't read all the other posts, but i will tonight when i get home from work. as a janitor.

all i was asking for was something else to read, and i got it. thank you.

i KNOW rtas is for protools. i know vst is open source.

my opinion is that vst being open source means you won't always know what you're getting unless you can meter a lot of stuff to find out.

i was asking for help. just because i didn't spout all the 'research' knowledge i've acquired doesn't mean i didn't do the actual research.

the further down the rabbit hole i got, i realized i needed to hear stories from people who's actually done it. just because i can read a lot and i have a degree in audio does NOT mean i get to cut audio all day. that's the real world. so, i came here for some real world advice

codemonkey, you have TONS of great advice hear, and i can't wait to learn more, but i'm so serious, the next one of you elitist assholes who accuses me of laziness, or supports another post that DOES accuse me of laziness is gonna get torn up.

cut

and

dried

Use the shift key you lazy prick.

;)

Apparently the poster wasn't really ready for a quick opinion from all of us either :)

Use the shift key you lazy prick.

LMAO- We are soooooo nice here.

I use VST, I love my UAD card and some waves plugs.

I have not noticed much differences in the formats, but I can't say I have tried a VST and the exact same plug in the protools (resistance is futile) format.

The real test would be grabing a waves plug and see how it translates from each format type.

k, forget it, i'm out of here

not like you care, but i'm deleting my account here

i'll just go back to asking people in person, it's just simply a better experience

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.experien…"]Do you delete your Questions if you do not like the Answers!?[/]="http://www.experien…"]Do you delete your Questions if you do not like the Answers!?[/]

The difference here is that I have nothing at stake. I look like an idiot no matter if I ask questions or give answers. You support this with your leaving. So how am I suppose to feel about this?

Your just not ready to play with a world wide bunch of head smackers yet :)
It stings at first, but it isn't anything but an opinion, yours and mine or whoever else jumps in.

The trick, and this is tricky, is to not take ownership. When you "own" a thread or post, it is your road to hell, your first undoing, your opportunity to be at one with JP22.

After a while, you know who to trust and who to ignore and who knows where all the bodies are buried :)

You can move on if you want, but the problem is going to be where ever you go if you have such thin skin that you either cannot take a joke or will not accept that sometimes, even the most educated, ask or phrase a question that is so ill it deserves to be left alone, but we hate to see someone left out of the fray :)

So, welcome, cheer up, ask better questions and stop polling me!!!

MadMax wrote: Dayam... who opened the nasty gate this morning???

Sheese...

rainy's admitted being a relative noob... while fun can regularly abound in blasting newbs. (A joyous past time in some haunts) it generally stay's pretty civil here.

However, I will say that there quite a few folks around here who see a bombardment or newbie-esque, over simplified and relatively inane styled questions, and it's not quite calling the sharks... (chumming real good and heavy, MIGHT, call one or two biggin's in to chew some ass) but otherwise, it's more like chumming Koi with bread crumbs.

Seriously, if you need to know the basics, just ask in one decent conversational post. Folks do share here... most of the time.

Looks like you can hold your own, so I prolly don't need to say much more than welcome to the fray... and it's ok to put complex issues in one post... If they can't handle it... well... at least you only wasted your time in one thread.

Personally, I stay in TDM except for Echo Boy and McDSP, so I'm not really gonna be of much help.

hi max,

i just wanted to get some new opinions from some cool folks. 'space' doesn't even really bug me, i'm just a newb that cannot be bashed. now that i'm home from work, i've got more reading to do, which is cool.

the basic problem is my band bought a mackie onyx for live + recording, but i've already recorded 2 songs last year with an mbox one + g4 466:512ram. i got up to 8 tracks with some real time plug ins before it stopped bouncing properly. so, to finish the whole record, do i stick with the onyx and buy a PC? or i could buy a used digi 001 PCI based system and a G5 mac and stick with what i'm comfortable with.

i just kept the question simple to appeal to people's curiousity. EVERYONE wants to rhyme in with 2 cents when they CAN. and who couldn't rhyme in on THAT? and i'll take ANY opinions, i'm not picky.

i just get a little peeved when i get accused of laziness, when really, i was just being efficient. as for calling the sharks, bring that shit on. as soon as i know as much as a shark, they can just piss off. leave the forum completely. i'll field all the tough questions. sharks should WANT to help out. they don't WANT to help because they're jaded loser's who don't get enough attention. if they got more attention, and were happy, they'd WANT to help. it's just that simple.

and as for 'wasting time in one thread', EXACTLY!!!!

if you (collective you, not YOU you) don't like my thread, buzz off. i read TONS of other posts, but by posting my own thread, i can whittle down to what i'm looking for easier. if people don't like that, it's a free country. they allowed to not like it. and i'm allowed to post.

thanks man, take care

Space wrote: Thanks CM. Actually the question is valid. It opened up the door for more information, as hueseph and CM presented. None of which, btw, have a thing to do with which is better or even speaks directly to the "poll".

In general, overall, a poll is the first indication that the "pol-er" is uninformed.

"attempting to point out another person's ignorance or laziness kinda backfires when you don't personally know who you're insulting."

See, I wasn't doing any of that...none of it.

VST is a common platform used by the multitude...it is at mass saturation already. So the question is wrong and really has no answer in that respect.

Link:
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.tweakhea…"]Making sense of the VSTi, DXi, MAS, RTAS, and AU Jungle[/]="http://www.tweakhea…"]Making sense of the VSTi, DXi, MAS, RTAS, and AU Jungle[/]

The above link is the answer, as it where, to your question, less the poll.

I recommend searching because it is akin to having all the encyclopedias available to the user in near real time. Granted incorrect information will be presented, but this is where the user must persevere to find well documented and trusted support.

So now I will answer your poll question with 100 percent accuracy:
I like VST plugs because I cannot use RTAS plugs. :)

Hope this helps,

Brien

hi brien,

"See, I wasn't doing any of that...none of it."
naw, it's cool, even if you WERE accusing me of being lazy. i mean, i still wasn't BEING lazy. i DID my research. but i'd like a NEW kind of info. people's educated opinions. real world application. plus, i'm about to spend money. i'm not trusting 2 grand to my own dumb ass intuition. so i came to a forum. let's get the new guy. fuck you.

ya, i get it, YOU can't use RTAS because you didn't purchase protools hardware. i'm not THAT new. i studied protools at an accredited audio school. IN NINETEEN FUCKING NINETY SEVEN. there WAS no hard disk recording at that time. protools 5 doesn't count because computers sucked in 1997. get a grip guy.

see, but this is where YOU'RE supposed to chime in with how cool VST plugin's are: and how 'this one and that one' compare to 'this one and that one' in protools. support your platform, hoss.

you said:
"VST is a common platform used by the multitude...it is at mass saturation already. So the question is wrong and really has no answer in that respect. "
ok, what the hell are you even talking about? saturation? like, tape saturation?

but no joke, thanks a TON for that link. i needed something like that. i will read more tomorrow. but really, thank you.

hey man, no offense, but i'm just going to hand it back ten fold. if someone is nice, i'm nice. if someone's a jerk, i'm a jerk. does that work ok?

Space wrote: Apparently the poster wasn't really ready for a quick opinion from all of us either :)

i got my link, right? ;)

i met 3 or 4 cool people to rap a little audio. you guys didn't even give me quick opinions. i got good stuff. i got a bit to work with. that link YOU sent looks great. what didn't i get? i got everything i wanted by creating a decent post.

look how much shit i got done while i was at work? i posted JUST before i left for work. and i got home about an hour ago. LOOK HOW MUCH RESEARCH I DIDN'T HAVE TO DO.

but if i learn anything, and if i can help, just ask. i'm here to help, not be a newb, or a douche.

Space wrote: [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.experien…"]Do you delete your Questions if you do not like the Answers!?[/]="http://www.experien…"]Do you delete your Questions if you do not like the Answers!?[/]

The difference here is that I have nothing at stake. I look like an idiot no matter if I ask questions or give answers. You support this with your leaving. So how am I suppose to feel about this?

Your just not ready to play with a world wide bunch of head smackers yet :)
It stings at first, but it isn't anything but an opinion, yours and mine or whoever else jumps in.

The trick, and this is tricky, is to not take ownership. When you "own" a thread or post, it is your road to hell, your first undoing, your opportunity to be at one with JP22.

After a while, you know who to trust and who to ignore and who knows where all the bodies are buried :)

You can move on if you want, but the problem is going to be where ever you go if you have such thin skin that you either cannot take a joke or will not accept that sometimes, even the most educated, ask or phrase a question that is so ill it deserves to be left alone, but we hate to see someone left out of the fray :)

So, welcome, cheer up, ask better questions and stop polling me!!!

aw man, i was just messing around a bit. i'm really glad some folks are being cool. i'm not gonna stop polling tho. look how much got done?

you said:
"The difference here is that I have nothing at stake. I look like an idiot no matter if I ask questions or give answers. You support this with your leaving. So how am I suppose to feel about this? "
*aw man, if EYE were you, i'd have given ME a huge "BOO fucking HOO to you buddy"
who CARES if i left? i was being such a baby! :) i didn't really mean what i was posting, i wasn't gonna leave. i just wanted a reaction from some other people. I got a few PM's, and i'm going to ask some more detailed stuff to THOSE people because they care. YOU? you i'm going to whip here in public because this is WAY TOO MUCH FUN. LEAVE? ARE YOU NUTS?

you said:
"You can move on if you want, but the problem is going to be where ever you go if you have such thin skin that you either cannot take a joke or will not accept that sometimes, even the most educated, ask or phrase a question that is so ill it deserves to be left alone, but we hate to see someone left out of the fray"
*i DO have thin skin in the real world. for sure. here, it's fine, i WAS kinda joking about leaving. you ALL should have been, "boo hoo loser". i mean, really, who cares if i left. but seriously, you're ALL really nice and it's nice that you weren't gonna let some guy go off crying. kudo's to all for sure.

oh, and BTW, i'm NEVER going to post something without a poll. from now on. dude, you are getting seriously polled.

Codemonkey wrote: Right. In your 2 months of research, you should have realised that:

VST is a format of plugins for a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT platform than RTAS is.
RTAS is for ProTools, VST is for everything else.

Everything else in your post makes me want to double facepalm.

Space's post IS helpful - he's asking if you actually know what the difference is between these 2. If you did, you would surely realise that the 2 are completely different and yet entirely similar beasts.
They're both fish but one is a shark and one is a school of tuna.

How do you compare those?
I mean, I like tuna better, it's normally less vicious.

Now, if all you want is a personal opinion, then why not make it clearer instead of asking which is better which to most people here will probably mean from a technical standpoint.

It's still moot though, because you can't swap between them without a wrapper - meaning it's entirely down to what platform you use.
I use Kristal on a PC and therefore I use freeware VSTs. I find that they're my only choice and it's not something I spend time considering.

codemonkey,

btw, thanks for that bit about Kristal. I see lists of vst's online, but hearing about someone actually USING one makes CHOOSING one from the list easier, you know? it's a HUGE list. i don't know what i'm getting into. so thanks for giving me a name to read up on.

you said:
"Space's post IS helpful - he's asking if you actually know what the difference is between these 2. If you did, you would surely realise that the 2 are completely different and yet entirely similar beasts.
They're both fish but one is a shark and one is a school of tuna."
*k, seriously, what the hell? space's posts was attention seeking at best. they are NOT the same but different at all. they are 2 separate approaches to the same goal: recording audio. it's the goal i care about really, not the approach.

one approach is based on proprietary technology. the other approach is not. therefore, A) can be trusted and either chosen or not based on being a secure yet expensive system, the other B) approach cannot be trusted but STILL chosen and used because it has wider options and is less expensive. your shit about tuna is just ridiculous drivel. :) ah? ah? :)

you said:
"Now, if all you want is a personal opinion, then why not make it clearer instead of asking which is better which to most people here will probably mean from a technical standpoint. "
*i didn't make it clearer because i wanted BOTH technical and personal opinions. see, i knew i was going to get what i needed. the personal opinions are good cuz they help with the 'needle in a haystack' problem of I DON'T HAVE TIME TO TRY EVERY PIECE OF SOFTWARE. and i like technical opinions because I DON'T HAVE TIME TO LEARN HOW TO USE EVERY PIECE OF SOFTWARE. i DO have time to post here tho. how'm i doin?

oh and TOTALLY thank you about the 'wrapper' thing. i've heard a bit about it, but i'm going to check into it more. seems really cool. thanks again for your help.

There isn't a word to describe what you just did.
Double, no, quad, no, penta, pentapost?
* codemunkeh has quit (network overload).

* codemunkeh rejoins.
I'll drop the tuna.
* codemunkeh has acquired a sore foot.

I'll save you some time will I?

VSTs: I recommend a compressor, EQ, pair of filters, some additional bits. Two of each.

[="http://www.gvst.co.uk/index.htm"]GVST[/]="http://www.gvst.co…"]GVST[/]: particularly GComp, GHi/GLow/GBand. Filters aren't so necessary though.
[[url=http://="http://reaper.fm/re…"]Reaper[/]="http://reaper.fm/re…"]Reaper[/]: the free ReaEQ and ReaComp are nice. Very flexible.
[="http://karmafx.net/"]KarmaFX[/]="http://karmafx.net/"]KarmaFX[/]: I like their reverb. The delay is also useful but I never use it.

These are the ones I use because they're the ones I have. Feel free to find your own (pick one at random from this list you found, you can delete it later if it sucks).
Also, if you use Kristal, you'll need this: [[url=http://="link removed[/]="link removed[/] to use more than 2 effects per channel, and since about 40% of effects won't work directly in Kristal.

FWIW Reaper (see link above) is also a DAW, far more fully featured than Kristal, but you pay $50 for the privelege of non-commercial work.

* codemunkeh resorts to original topic.
Technically there's massive differences between RTAS and VST but I doubt there's an advantage to either one.
I like VSTs because RTAS won't work for what I do, and I'm able to just ignorantly live with the fact that my chosen plugins may not be the best, just the ones I have.

I think my first post hits the nail on the head. You, original poster, have gone to great length to show how uneducated you are.

I have to say that this thread has been a poor example of what this community can be. It seems as though the forum has become a haven for trolls posing as elitists.

Give the guy a break. He's familiar with ProTools. If you check his band page, their songs are actually quite good in a pop sense. The recordings need work but I suppose that's why he's here.

Blanket statements and unfounded criticisms are valueless. If you don't like the question, don't answer. It's as simple as that. If you don't want to be helpful, all you're doing is trolling. Yes trolling. This has been ongoing on this site for a while now. Normally I don't say anything but it's been getting on my nerves. Everyone has to start somewhere. Tell me you never recorded a song on your sears mono cassette recorder when you were a kid. (or whatever the equivalent may have been when you were young. IE:soundblaster card)

Sure there are some blatantly stupid questions out there but let's just give people the benefit of the doubt. If you're going to blast someone on their first question, you can only expect them to react. You may have something to prove so prove it. Post a link of your fabulous work. Let us all admire your genius, then maybe we will accept scorn from the "finger of God". Until then, be patient. some of the people you are dumping on are kids. Skin takes time to thicken. Discouragement does nothing but bolster your ego and only temporarily bandages your sense of insufficiency.

End of rant.

Besides mastering plugins there are lots of software instruments like Native Instruments that load as either VST or RTAS depending on which OS/DAW/ platform your using....
My question would be.....can you actually hear a difference between these two or three (AU) or four different formats ..when they are merely format types that match the OS/platform...not the actual audio engine of the software that produces the sounds or effects?
I would think you would first have to load the same effect or instrument running side by side on a MAC/PTools vs say a PC/Cubase system.....
If the audio output engines on each machine were the same then you might be able to determine a difference between a VST vs RTAS plugin....the audio could be the same?.....they could be completely different....maybe somebody has done this?...
The bottom line is if you use a MAC it's going to be RTAS and that's what you get...if you use a PC then VST will be your selection.
I use a PC/Cubase/RME....I have lots of different plugins and software instruments (many 1000 of dollars worth) and my purchases of particular plugin's or instruments is based on my wants (and needs)...I research it's capabilities, read reviews and search forums like this....and finally it has to be available as VST because that's what I have....

djmukilteo: Not really. RTAS is the proprietary plugin format for Digidesign ProTools LE(Mac and PC). VST is a Steinberg technology which has been widely adapted for both Mac and PC. AU is the only format that is OS platform specific.

In regards to quality comparison, I think what it comes down to in the programmers. If the specific plugin was well designed, it will sound good. If it was slapped together in Synth Edit it probably won't be that great.

hueseph wrote: I have to say that this thread has been a poor example of what this community can be. It seems as though the forum has become a haven for trolls posing as elitists.

Give the guy a break.
End of rant.

Let's see if I can get on page with ya boss:

Space said:
"Here is a very useless answer.

Take two minutes and google what the difference is between vst and rtas, who can use them and who cannot, is there a vst to rtas converter and do I need it?

I like to think of it as the "diy-answer poll"."

Where is the harm in that? It is qualified. So let's you and I twist this around. You tell me where I got off on the wrong foot, for if the child were in front of me in physical form, I would say at least something to the same effect.

I suppose, in this thinking, I am, or who-so-ever was involved, are as responsible for what comes out of this childs mouth in the event that some one gives a ragged comment or is remotely negative?

The boy has been helped my friend. If anyone needs talking to, it would be the un-family like environment this child took it upon his self to generate.

That, is not mine.

Thanks Hueseph....I wasn't completely sure of that....so thanks for the education....I suppose because I use Steinberg Cubase that was my assumption/understanding....I was also under the impression that Protools was strictly a MAC app?....I guess I am wrong there as well?

My question would still be do you think these formats if we were comparing pears to pears....(I didn't want to use the word "apples") and they were loaded side by side and you used the same wav file or instrument and had same output device.....could one format produce a higher quality sound over the other?

I agree that the quality of any plugin relies on the quality of the programming and algorithms used.... no doubt...

I think that it really is dependent on the programmers. Can one format be better than the other? Sure but not necessary with the same plugin. It may be that one format is more processor hungry than another but again, I think that it is dependent on the programmers and which format the plugin was originally designed for. If for example a plugin was designed for VST and had to be ported for RTAS or TDM, you would think than the VST would be more efficient the RTAS equivalent. That's not necessarily the case but it usually is.

Space: no doubt he's being a bit reactionary but what do you expect? There is such a thing as tact. As much as I don't feel you necessarily attacked him and in all honesty, I think he may have just taken you the wrong way, there were other posts that were just bluntly bashing. Apparently MadMax also felt there has been some unnecessary meanness as well.

I'd like to say that Space kicks arse for good, not evil.

He motivates people to help themselves. He did this for me when I was a newbie going around in circles.

Give a man fire, he's warm for a night, teach him to light it, he's warm for a lifetime.

I like to troll and make jokes, it's fun. Have some fun people, let's not all be bland...

Greener wrote: I'd like to say that Space kicks arse for good, not evil.

He motivates people to help themselves. He did this for me when I was a newbie going around in circles.

Give a man fire, he's warm for a night, teach him to light it, he's warm for a lifetime.

I like to troll and make jokes, it's fun. Have some fun people, let's not all be bland...

wow, are you serious? really? THAT'S your answer?

if i wanted to help myself, i would do pretty much ANYTHING but check a forum. a forum is a place to ask for help from OTHER PEOPLE.

if 'space' doesn't want to help me, he doesn't have to post. if he posts something dumb and negative, i'm just going to be dumb and negative right back.

totally lowercase, just how you like it

Space wrote:
The boy has been helped my friend. If anyone needs talking to, it would be the un-family like environment this child took it upon his self to generate.

That, is not mine.

uh, dude? i'm 30. and you're just an asshole. pure and simple. asking me to 'google something for 2 minutes' is insulting because you have NO IDEA how much reading i've been doing.

you have NO IDEA how many hats i wear to keep my band in line.

flat out, you just don't know me.

so, post away, but you're digging yourself in deeper.

no one cares that you don't like newb's or dumb questions or polls.

by the time i digest some of the info here, i'll be off onto something else. like how to press t-shirts. or finding the best deal on cd pressing. or making the graphics for the cd cover. or calling every club in southern ontario. or bugging my band to learn more covers. or rewiring busted up gear. or designing posters. or putting up posters. or taking down posters.

do you get it yet? you don't need to post your 2 cents.

you're free to go.

'i just get a little peeved when i get accused of laziness'

'LOOK HOW MUCH RESEARCH I DIDN'T HAVE TO DO.'
'if i wanted to help myself, i would do pretty much ANYTHING but check a forum.'

'and i'll take ANY opinions, i'm not picky.'

'do you get it yet? you don't need to post your 2 cents.'

'get bent'
'elitist assholes'
'jaded loser's'
'buzz off'
'fuck you.'
'i'm 30. and you're just an asshole.'

Huseph, I see where you are coming from, but I'm not sure THIS guy is worth defending...

"(N)o one cares that you don't like newb's or dumb questions or polls."

I care, mostly because he's right and somewhat because unlike you;

"(B)y the time (I) digest some of the info here, (I)'ll be off"

He doesn't cut and run.

Good luck with your millinery.

RDG: I don't think you're helping the situation. Maybe if you try again. I think you got the answer you needed. Time to relax.

Now I have to change my Avatar....
;)

anyone have advice on how to delete my forum account. i can't find the links. i'm serious this time too. you people are NO help at all. the audio advice was fine, but my faith in using the internet to interact with people has been re-affirmed. you all need to re-read what happened. had i not be attacked, i wouldn't have attacked. plain and simple.

this is my last post, you can change your avatar back you loser. like it really would have mattered that both chose the same avatar from a pre-set list. you people just don't get it. you're not special. i'm not special. it's the music that is special, and because NONE of you can write it, i have no patience for you.

get super super super bent

Bye then. Enjoy your lifetime of hate.

I suggest you stop making sweeping statements about everyone here (or anywhere). If you walked into a macho bar and insulted them all because one guy bumped into you, I imagine you would be thrown headfirst out of the door.

Link555 has done nothing to merit being judged a loser and I can guarantee you that there are plenty of people here who can write music.

Why do you want to delete your account anyway? Your posts remain here regardless and all you need to do is log out and forget the password.

RDG: You're just being stupid now. Quit while you're.......well you're no where near ahead anymore. Gotta learn to control that head.