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audiokid 9 April 2017

Which of these examples on recording acoustic guitar do you prefer and why?

 

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pcrecord Sun, 04/09/2017 - 14:15

I'm not doing much of space pairs on guitars.. Maybe I should, but one time that I did it, the performer moved a bit between takes (he turned on the chair). Before I could realise it the distance from the mics shifted and I got a bit of phases issues on some takes.. Very minor but there none the less.

I like the One mic double takes technique but only if the player is consistent and willing to play the same way twice.
It would also be my approach if I had to record 2 completely different guitar parts and planned to pan them.

For more intimate guitar performances, I often use a M/S setup. It's specially nice if you want to controle how wide you want the guitar when mixing.
And if you want to make changed along the song. Let's say make the guitar wider in the choruses or something like that.

I prefer your number 1 video.

audiokid Sun, 04/09/2017 - 14:21

pcrecord, post: 449390, member: 46460 wrote: I prefer your number 1 video.

pcrecord I feel the same,
number 2 sounds overwhelming brittle to me. Sometimes those SDC are just too edgy and bright for me.
I'm surprised where they put the U87 and it sounded that good. I would expect a body mid honk in that position. I think it sounds very good.

3.
The acoustic section starts at 25.50

pcrecord Sun, 04/09/2017 - 16:55

audiokid, post: 449391, member: 1 wrote: I'm surprised where they put the U87 and it sounded that good. I would expect a body mid honk in that position. I think it sounds very good.

Maybe this particular U87 didn't have that much low end.. or there is an angle that we don't see from the camera's point of view..
But to me it seems in front of the sound hole but about 45degree angled toward the bridge.. Interesting choice !

audiokid Sun, 04/09/2017 - 17:07

pcrecord, post: 449396, member: 46460 wrote: Maybe this particular U87 didn't have that much low end.. or there is an angle that we don't see from the camera's point of view..
But to me it seems in front of the sound hole but about 45degree angled toward the bridge.. Interesting choice !

In the video he said he pointed it at the hole. I imagine he used the hpf on it.
What has me curious, I've used a U87ai on my Taylor 314ce and it didn't sound this good towards the hole. I wonder if those really nice looking gobo's have anything to do with that "better than expected" capture of the hole shot. What do you think?

pcrecord Mon, 04/10/2017 - 05:02

At 0:31 I hear ''a couple inches off the sound hole'' It makes me think in front but turned away... I maybe mistaken of course.

audiokid, post: 449397, member: 1 wrote: I wonder if those really nice looking gobo's have anything to do with that "better than expected" capture of the hole shot. What do you think?

That's a proof that there is no universal recipe. it all depend on the room, the instrument, the player, the mic etc... ;)

audiokid Mon, 04/10/2017 - 07:59

Here is what davedog said in another thread>

Davedog, post: 416944, member: 4495 wrote: This is exactly why I have a gobo or two. No matter how uncontrolled a room is, if you can gobo off a side or even two sides around a source chances are it will sound nice with great gear involved.

The 'over-the-shoulder' mic technique works really well with a banjo. You have to have something thats fairly hyper-cardioid...small d mics work well for this. and a fast preamp. Another thing to consider with banjo is WHAT IT IS.....Its a freekin drum with strings. Approach it that way and it'll pay off.

Gobo one side, hyper-cardioid, mic it like a snare....Also...Banjo's are very loud...thus the gobo.....Your 121 will sound good in front. SDC over the shoulder....

Making some gobo's is on my list. Anyone have any gobo recipes?

pcrecord Mon, 04/10/2017 - 09:31

audiokid, post: 449411, member: 1 wrote: Making some gobo's is on my list. Anyone have any gobo recipes?

I made 2 a few years ago. An absorbing side and a hard side. I hang them in my control room and I made some feet for them when I put them on the ground.
They are 4'x3' and 4'' Thick, with roxul Inside.

Boswell Mon, 04/10/2017 - 10:41

audiokid, post: 449391, member: 1 wrote: I'm surprised where they put the U87 and it sounded that good. I would expect a body mid honk in that position. I think it sounds very good.

Well, it was a U67 rather than a U87, but it surprised me too that the sound was balanced and rounded with that mic positioning.

Like Marco, I think that, in a studio, using a good pair of LDCs in M-S can produce a sound that fits well with a vocal. If it's the same guitarist/vocalist, it should be on a different take for control of bleed.

audiokid Mon, 04/10/2017 - 11:24

Neumann U67 vs U86 comments say this:

The differences are so slight that you'd be lucky to see them at all in the average photo. The type of connector on the microphone cable may be your best clue. The output connector on a U 67 is a large RF-proof Tuchel; an early enough U 87 could have that same connector, but if you can see an XLR being used, then it's definitely a U 87.
Other than that, the Neumann badge on a U 67 is black; on a U 87 it's purple. And on the back of the microphone, if it's a U 87 that's not a U 87A and still has its original sleeve, then there is normally a narrow ~1/2' slot so that the battery meter can be read from the outside. On the other hand, if the sleeve has been replaced for cosmetic reasons, then it may not have the slot, even on a 'non-A' U 87. Few people use the battery powering option, and Neumann hasn't made sleeves with slots for some time now.
Of course if you have a very close-up photo, or microscopic vision perhaps, you can simply read the model number on the label that circles around the connector end of the microphone!

That makes me feel a bit better ;)

I found on GS, the two main differences are that the U67 has a tube amplifier with a separate power supply.

Boswell, are you familiar with the U67?

pcrecord Mon, 04/10/2017 - 13:44

audiokid, post: 449421, member: 1 wrote: Thanks Marco. I've never used a U67. Have you guys? I'm curious to do some research on it now.

I don't have the budget for those original classics and don't know if I ever will. :unsure:
I'm compensating with my T47 who reminisce of the U47 and I just ordered a mod kit to put my old C1 closer to a U87.
But I know that even with the best gear some will fail. If I can achieve the sound I want/need with what I've got. I'm a winner !!!

Boswell Tue, 04/11/2017 - 02:31

audiokid, post: 449421, member: 1 wrote: I've never used a U67. Have you guys? I'm curious to do some research on it now.

Sorry, I missed this bit earlier. I never have owned any of the Uxx microphones, but I've used them often enough, either in other studios or as hired or borrowed items.

Really as a result of this thread, it occured to me that I've only ever used them individually, and that I've never had a U67 and a U87 side-by-side for comparison. Although both mics would tackle almost any solo voice or instrument, the usage I have grown up with is to prefer the 67 for instruments and the 87 for vocals. So it was no surprise to find the 67 on acoustic guitar in the video, but where it was placed and the resulting sound did raise my eyebrows.

Great guitarist, though, to be able to double-track that accurately.

audiokid Tue, 04/11/2017 - 08:57

For G.A.S and giggles: Here is a U67 that just sold for around $7000.00. It looks like a u87 but I bet hardly sounds like one.

Whats interesting to me is I find it difficult to believe there aren't other beautiful, rich sounding mid focus mics for far less these days, over something vintage like this gem.
Example: The Mojave 200 and 300 series sound every bit as good, if not even better than new U87ai.

I'd love to hear an A /B between this and that Mesanovic 2 we are just talking about here right now. Two very different mics but never the less, it would be interesting.

audiokid Thu, 04/13/2017 - 12:55

Millennia is something that stacks well with other character items. Millennia sounds awesome as a pure pre but I think is greatly underestimated or simply missed because its not spelt out in big bold print. It stacks well where others pres can be too much of a good thing... "smeared and over cooked stack".

Millennia is one of those ... thinking outside the box products. Something coined as transparent pristine accuracy can be used as a super core to achieve greater character dimension.

Same concept applies for all high quality transformer-less designs > Mastering level gear combined with processors , wow...

audiokid Thu, 04/13/2017 - 16:17

Boswell, post: 449526, member: 29034 wrote: Some very questionable advice/tips on that Sweetwater page.

They are selling products, period. I enjoy their well done video's but take it all with a grain of salt. This whole industry is questionable for that matter.

Even 90% of all the acoustic guitar demo's I listen to, I see where the player is picking and I never pick that close to the bridge when strumming. It always sounds thin and bright closer to the bridge. Maybe I am the odd ball out but take a look the next time you watch one of these. My guitars always have pick wear close to the 20th fret of an acoustic neck. Its where its the warmest sounding, full texture and harmonic control is richest.
Half of them are using SDC, picking close to the bridge then going straight into Pro Tools. Yuck!

What were some questionable advice/tips there, Bos?

DogsoverLava Thu, 04/13/2017 - 18:58

audiokid, post: 449528, member: 1 wrote: They are selling products, period. I enjoy their well done video's but take it all with a grain of salt. This whole industry is questionable for that matter.

Even 90% of all the acoustic guitar demo's I listen to, I see where the player is picking and I never pick that close to the bridge when strumming. It always sounds thin and bright closer to the bridge. Maybe I am the odd ball out but take a look the next time you watch one of these. My guitars always have pick wear close to the 20th fret of an acoustic neck. Its where its the warmest sounding, full texture and harmonic control is richest.
Half of them are using SDC, picking close to the bridge then going straight into Pro Tools. Yuck!

What were some questionable advice/tips there, Bos?

I think as you say Chris the whole industry with respect to gear demo's and advice etc should be viewed with suspicion. The business model for all this stuff still comes back to sales and it's always left to consumers to evaluate with the understanding of the bias in front of them. Forums like this are good but you have to spend your time here getting to know people to be better able to qualify advice you read. I'm looking forward to the next time I dig into recording acoustic guitar now.

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