AKG 451.. Great Mics.. Kurt

I recently used a pair of 414s as overheads and was pleased with their clarity and imaging.

I am using the Rode NT5's...they sound great!

Neumann U48s
AKG C12VRs
AKG C414s
AKG C451s
AKG C460s

Shure KSM32s
Crown SASS-P

shure SM-81's a very good mic
AKG 451's as mentioned
Audix SCX-1 soon to become very popular
Neumann KM-84 & Km-184 the older 84 sounds much better
ADK SC-1 for a couple hundred for a matched pair it doesnt get any better

Remember he said "under $1000"!!! (I assumed that meant for the *pair*.)

One of the best-sounding overhead mics imho is the AKG C414s, I just heard some the other day that absolutely blew me away!!! Unfortunately however, you cannot fit a pair in under $1000. If I could afford them right now, you can bet I'd have at *least* two!!! They are certainly on my top-ten "wish list", and are an industry standard for *lots* of used other than overheads, and is just a great all-around workhorse mic.

You can meet the price with the AKG C451's, but the Neumann's mentioned will all run over $1000 for a matched pair.

au-contraire mr. helix...there are several 'pairs' of Neumanns on ebay currently going for just under 1 grand..these are buyitnow prices and all are sequential number pairs...yes I saw the price the questioner listed and all my suggestions meet these criteria....peace....BTW, the SM-81 shure small diaphram condenser for over heads usually will best all others at its price and for its clarity and ability to take loud transients....the akg451 is next...

Actually Davedog, *your* suggestions *did* meet the price spec, and my comments weren't directed at you, although I am surprised to hear that you can get a matched pair of Neumanns (184's???) for under a grand.

I have been considering a pair of the SM-81 (obviously another one of those "standards" that everyone has) for either overheads or hi-hats (see my post elsewhere in this forum), and the responses I got from this forum and another I frequent seemed to favor the C451 over the SM-81.

I know in all my years as a recording musician, the SM-81 was in pretty much every studio that I went into, and has been used in one way or another on most of the recordings I was involved with. Now that I am running my own home-based modest studio, I naturally put the SM-81's on my short-list, but it seems that local opinion around here puts the 451 on a higher plane. Any comments on that?

(You can pick up a brand new C451 for about $300 on Ebay, although I haven't seen a posting for any matched pairs yet.)

Mr. Helix....for me its price point...all three of these mics perform at a high quality level...you could throw in the Coles also in this under a grand for a pair..but for me personally....getting a PAIR of SM-81's for somewhere in the neighborhood of $350 leaves me with 700 in the budget with which i could purchase a RNP preamp and still have a couple hundred left over...with that I could get a Studio Projects B3 and still have dinner with my wife...its all about bang for the buck...I love the 451 mics...and the Km184 and km84...but the sm-81's hooked up to a RNP pre will sound just as yummy and at less than the Neumanns and just a little more than the 451's for a pair...seems to me you get a lot more for your money and you add a piece that you can use on anything(the RNP)....and i did mention the SP B3...what a great mic for the money...its REALLY good...thats my perspective...BTW...i've used all of these mics extensively.....peace

Davedog,
Hows it going? I was wondering what your opinion of how the SM81's compare to the 451's? I have 4 451's and I find them to be pretty bright/thin. I also have a pair of C460's and they are much warmer/fatter. When all I want from the overheads is cymbals, I will put up the C451's but if I want to pull more snare and toms out of the overheads I will use the 460's or better yet my 4033's. :D I went to the AKG site and snooped around, it looks as if they are not marketing the C460 anymore. Kurt

The 460 became the 480.

I have a pair of Shure KSM137's for sales on ebay. They have the same diaphram as the KSM32, only this mic is an end-address pencil, with 2 position roll-off and pad. These are brand spankin' new. Retail is $575 each, street is about $299+/- each , my price for BOTH mics is $400.

They are great mics. I hate to sell them, but my kid is on expensive medicine, and we lost our insurance, so out they go.

One thing to consider when purchasing OH mics is your technique. Are these going to "whole kit" drum OH's or more cymbal mics. In the first case your room sound is going to come more or less into play depending on your mic choice (especially large or small diaphram). If your going more for a cymbals only position most of the previously mentioned (451's, sm81's etc) are fine. My personal preference, if the room is decent, AND the kit sounds good, is to go with a X/Y pair of large diaphram mics. I will start my whole drum sound with these mics and add in K/Snr/hh/toms to taste (paying close attention to phase-kick mic especially).

Tim

HEY KURT!...I personally like the 451's on acoustic instruments much better than on overheads...I have ALWAYS thought the 460 sounded ...um better...not the right term...fuller is more like it and found it needed to be eq'd a bit when used on guitars,mandolins,glockenspiel etc etc...the 451's were always right there in yer face and especially with a full bodied sound like a martin...that being said, the SM-81's always sounded good on everything and were the kind of mic one would pull for any application that needed that sort of mic...if there was time for experimentation, most times a solution with something else would present itself...ala..large diaphrams in an overhead or a 4033 on an instrument or an 87 pair in X/Y on whatever....my point about the 81's is for the money you cannot go wrong...and if you're trying to mic a fiddle the 81 will most likely save yer butt...

Recently had a chance to listen to the new Rode fixed x / y stereo mic on a drum test that Ty Ford did to write a review for Pro Audio Review. We put a D112 in the kick and a pair of 414s as overheads with no other close mics as our baseline.

Then keeping the D112, we replaced the 414s with the Rode stereo mic and tried several positions: 1) Behind the drummer, about 20 inches over his head to try and capture what the drummer hears. 2) On a long boom stand in front of the kit with the mic centered over the kick pedal. 3) Out front of the kit about head high if you were standing in front of the kit facing in.

We were all pleasantly surprised at how good the snare and toms sounded through the Rode with no close mics. Definitely worth a listen….

We were all pleasantly surprised at how good the snare and toms sounded through the Rode with no close mics. Definitely worth a listen….

I am glad to hear you say that Doug, since I have been very happy with my Rodes as well.

I don't know what the prices are like in the States, but what about the Earthworks mics - they come as matched pairs and have such good bass and level handleing you can use 'em on the bass drum!

I'm digging the Octava MC012's on drums.

I got a nice matched pair of Neumann KM184s,
with wooden box, etc. for under a grand last
summer, from Dave Butler. But the dollar has fallen against the euro since, and it wasn't
much under a grand, so today's price may have
just snuck over the grand mark.

But they are wonderful, lovely microphones.
Overheads, acoustic guitar, room mics
for bluegrass groups, etc.

My budget allowes me Shure KSM109 or Rode NT5.
Any thoughts/experience with those two, as drum overheads or acustic guitar :)

golli,
I personally haven't used either one so I can't speak to the actual sound. Many here have raved about the Rode mics however. That being said, this is a good chance for me to play with my new mic encyclopedia CD rom that Rycote sent me in this months edition of Audio Media. … Thanks Rycote!

According to the specifications: The KSM109 has a frequency response 20 to 20K and a max spl of 139dB while the NT5 has a response of 20 to 20K with a max spl of 143dB. Self noise for the KSM109 is 19dB-A and the NT5 is 16dB-A. The Shure output impedance is 150 ohms and the Rode is 200 ohms. The Rode appears to have a tighter cardioid pattern than the Shure (more directional), a more extended low end and smoother high end response. The Rode is listed at under $500 while the Shure KSM 109 is listed at $500 to $1000. All in all, if one were to go by the specifications, the Rode appears to have a smoother overall response, is quieter, better rejection of spill can take higher levels and is less expensive. I guess the Rode wins. Kurt

A used pair of KM184s would work great.
Of course, I'm loving my DPA 4015s
or Royers but I'll still use the 184s on occasion

Thanks alott for the reply Kurt. I've been droooolllling over the Rodes recently anyway, broblem is there is nobody here in Iceland selling Rodes and I've never seen a pair of NT5 on ebay. A pair of KSM109 costs about 550$ here, but these NT5 specs however look soooo good.

Kurt I found me a Rode dealer here, just had to look harder. The deal is these NT5 specs look good but I was hoping to get a cheap SM81 in the KSM109. After reading your posts on the forum, you would(I guess)be the last person to second that. What I'm after is a pair that is good for: overheads, acustic guitar and ORTF setup for roomsound. Of course some expensive ones would do the thing but these two are in my range and the NT5s would be perfect for overheads but can they do this ORTF setup. I really like that setup for room sound because it simulates your position in front of the sourse.

Actually, I don't want to be labeled a "Rode Hater" just yet! I do have a preference for the German mics, AKG and Neumann’s but a lot of members have said some very nice things regarding Ride’s mics. I also like Shures mics very much. Every Shure mic I have ever had, has been sturdy, dependable and has sounded great. SM57 & 58's, some Beta series condensers and an old vintage 1949 Birdcage SM 556 with the broadcast shock mount that is almost completely original and still works!

The reason I often sound like I don't like mics from China are more socio-political and really have nothing to do with the sound of them or their performance characteristics. I will leave it at that as I don’t want this thread to disintegrate into another political rant by me but I will say that I would love to get my hands on some of these mics from Rode to evaluate and review, so I could actually speak from experience about how they sound.

Comparisons of specifications would lead me to believe the Rode mics actually outperform the Shure KSM series mics but I will say sometimes specs don’t tell the whole story. Issues regarding how the specs were arrived at can be argued and in real world conditions, I have seen mics that look great on paper sound like sh*t on tape. In the end it all breaks down to what your expectations are and what you are using the mics for. Kurt

I would have to say Kurt that I would like to see a review from you on Rodes. And while you're at it a
KSM109 review, since you are familiar with the SM81 :D

I am really digging on the MXL603S ($200 a pair with shock mount from 8th Street Music). The pattern seems just perfect for overhead drums. I also have the SM81 and although good, the semi cardiod of the 603 seems to better it on overheads.

What do people think of the Crown CM700? I'm curious as my drummer is a heavy hitter on a piercing drumset, I'm afraid of mics like SM81 and C451 where people day they can be too harsh. Even mics like 4051 while they sound great, seem to not be as good (for me) as this CM700 set. Any comments?

..also, what mic pre best compliments these mics? Would a FMR RNP suit the crowns, for example?