Was never a fan of the U67 compared to the U87 models. I also found them too thin. But what do I know Daniel Lanois swears by his u67's. Tube or transistor doesn't really matter IMHO. The frequency response of the capsule, and how it changes with different SPL is what give a mic a particular sound.

Listening the youtube samples:

The warm version is bit brighter to my ear.

Link555, post: 467443, member: 31690 wrote:
Was never a fan of the U67 compared to the U87 models. I also found them too thin. But what do I know Daniel Lanois swears by his u67's. Tube or transistor doesn't really matter IMHO. The frequency response of the capsule, and how it changes with different SPL is what give a mic a particular sound.

I was on the impression they shared the same capsule at some point.. ??

I listened to this review, the warm audio sounds very bad on the male vocal, nazal and thin compared to the original U67. It seems like the signer had taken a step back with the WA67. Like a feet further..
Maybe they have very different proximity effect.. ;)

The warm sounds brighter but they both sound comparable. In the acoustic guitar comparison, the mic head being 3 to 4 inches below is enough to make that comparison inaccurate to me, but again... sounds like a good buy if that what you are looking for.

I wonder how the mic would do in front of strong vocals. These singers were pretty soft.

Nice looking build. Looks like they've done a nice job.

Nice looking build. Looks like they've done a nice job.

Ok I will bite, I wasn't impressed.
  I would have much preferred see a better securing method of the high mass caps. The PCB seems to have no solder mask, Why? No ground plane either, likely due to the higher tube voltages, but they could just increased the clearance gaps. This would have been better with SMT IMO. It looks like a prototype not professional product.

Attached files

Link555, post: 467448, member: 31690 wrote:
Ok I will bite, I wasn't impressed.

I would have much preferred see a better securing method of the high mass caps. The PCB seems to have no solder mask, Why? No ground plane either, likely due to the higher tube voltages, but they could just increased the clearance gaps. This would have been better with SMT IMO. It looks like a prototype not professional product.

Awesome having you here, Link.. Great having members that understands "in depth" circuitry and "see" past the packaging to point out how things are actually built.

Polystyrene capacitors (as in the photo) give the best results in this type of circuit, but can't be fitted by standard SMT insertion machines. Similarly, through-hole resistors have a lower resistance-voltage change compared with their SM equivalents (see my old RO posts).

Both of these considerations point towards the sort of build that we see in the photo, but I agree that it does not have to exclude a multi-layer board with power and ground planes and a mask, although at a cost increase.

Overall, it does look a bit like a prototype.

Link555, post: 467448, member: 31690 wrote:
Ok I will bite, I wasn't impressed.
  I would have much preferred see a better securing method of the high mass caps. The PCB seems to have no solder mask, Why? No ground plane either, likely due to the higher tube voltages, but they could just increased the clearance gaps. This would have been better with SMT IMO. It looks like a prototype not professional product.

I agree I wasn't impressed.. some opened mics had white silicone and looked worst.
I would imagine that had to cut corners to keep the cost low..
The question here is, is it worth it. Worth buying it to complete my mic collection.
I have 2 KSM44, KSM32, micparts T47, T12 and S87. Warm audio WA47jr (to name only the LC)

As you know, I am partial to Mojave Audio and Royer mics because David Royer builds great microphones and they support us too. I've owned most of their mics over the years so I do like giving them a platform when appropriate.

Being said, it would be interesting to compare the Warm Audio WA-67 with Mojave Audio MA-200. For a few hundred more, the MA-200 might be a good alternative for you too, Marco.

I'd like to see what Link or Bos would say seeing the build on one of Mojave's right now. Granted, some parts to Mojave are China but from what I understand, they are ultimately built and passed through their LA home in the USA. I'm always rooting for as much as I can for USA products so forgive my bias.

See some comparisons on the U67 here: https://mojaveaudio…

i wouldn't make a judgment based on a comparison of a new "whatever" vs. a "whatever" that is 50 years old. and 2 different "whatever's" from 50 years ago are most likely not going to sound the same either.

with all of these "clones" i think the best that could be expected is that they perform within given parameters and deliver the "thing" that the original design had.

audiokid, post: 467453, member: 1 wrote:
Being said, it would be interesting to compare the Warm Audio WA-67 with Mojave Audio MA-200. For a few hundred more, the MA-200 might be a good alternative for you too, Marco.

Yes the MA-200 seems to be very interesting. Altought it is 1549$ CAD vs the WA-67 at 1189$CAD.
It's a bit hard to find what's inside, but I found a video showing it .
Their design seems to be bare minimal which is kind of surprising and not a bad thing if you think of it.
It makes less parts that can fail...

Attached files

audiokid, post: 467453, member: 1 wrote:
As you know, I am partial to Mojave Audio and Royer mics because David Royer builds great microphones and they support us too. I've owned most of their mics over the years so I do like giving them a platform when appropriate.

Being said, it would be interesting to compare the Warm Audio WA-67 with Mojave Audio MA-200. For a few hundred more, the MA-200 might be a good alternative for you too, Marco.

I'd like to see what Link or Bos would say seeing the build on one of Mojave's right now. Granted, some parts to Mojave are China but from what I understand, they are ultimately built and passed through their LA home in the USA. I'm always rooting for as much as I can for USA products so forgive my bias.

See some comparisons on the U67 here: https://mojaveaudio…

The MA-200 looks abit cleaner. I am a big fan of Jensen transformers. 
 
 

But I still like to see a better securing method for the high mass caps. This one appears to have a solder mask, but no ground planes. The tube shock mount is a better idea, vibration wise. I gather that JAN 5840 doesn't get too hot...

Attached files

Too funny we think alike pcrecord!

pcrecord, post: 467455, member: 46460 wrote:
1549$ CAD vs the WA-67 at 1189$CAD

There is always a price difference for "good better best" of course, but worth discussing too! That's a $360 difference but a very small difference in cost if it meant any improvement "small to substantial" for a song. (imho)
If the cost of that improved your reputation, made a singer/musician sound closer to what you and they wanted, i'd charge that $360 in your studio costs.

audiokid, post: 467458, member: 1 wrote:
There is always a price difference for "good better best" of course, but worth discussing too! That's a $360 difference but a very small difference in cost if it meant any improvement "small to substantial" for a song. (imho)
If the cost of that improved your reputation, made a singer/musician sound closer to what you and they wanted, i'd charge that $360 in your studio costs.

Never the less, a fun (informative) discussion looking at the build of various competitive products here :)

I would go the Mojave route without hesitation. They are a solid company with a reputation to uphold in the pro marketplace. I have never heard a pro offer a negative review on sound or build quality.

I own a matched pair of MA100 tube SD, and think they are very nice, especially for the price, and have both omni and cardioid capsules. They offer me a sound that my collection of Sennheiser MKHXX mics don't.

David Royer personally reviews every mic, after a burn in process, before they are released for shipment. He has a reputation to protect.

I saw a few videos talking about the ma-200 sounding close to the u67.
It's funny to read all the opinions...

I think we human like to have point of reference for everything. That's why we hear 'sounds like' so much.

Please Mojave, send me one !! Hey hey.. ;)

I think more and more about the ma-200 now. Something about it not being a clone of another mic start to make sens..

pcrecord, post: 467440, member: 46460 wrote:
Another option is the WA-87 (fet) , but since I have a S87 from micparts, I'm trying to figure out how different sounding the WA-67 is.

that would be interesting.

If i were going the clone route i would go with a boutique maker like Peluso, Bees Knees, Cathedral pipes, who keep prices down without cutting (alot of corners). Without the enormous marketing expenses a company like warm has, and the warehousing and administrative costs, these small companies can maintain their profit ratio and higher quality.

Mojave mics always sound good in any demos i hear. If considering the 200, the 300 might make more sense with the various pickup patterns. Its an increased price but may be worth it long term. Ive found omni and figure 8 very useful to have, and with a quality mic like Mojave cheap switches and mismatched diaphragms are much less of a concern.

I think stuff from places like warm only make sense when its a high performance per dollar unit. As soon as the prices approach "truly" pro level gear, i always get concerned about them using the same cost cutting methods they do on their better value gear.

Presonus and DBX for example both made a high price unit (compressor by dbx preamp by presonus i believe) and the units were built according to their price tag, perhaps exceeding it since they had buying power. So not all cases skimp out, but generally i remain skeptical of warm ect doing anything but bang for the buck stuff, which they excell at.

i don't have a horse in this race. i am just interested in someones opinion on what the Warm mics actually sound like. i hear a lot of opine on the construction, sourcing and blah blah this and blah blah that but i have never heard anyone say what they actually sound like.
i don't like the new look btw. they look like an ADK mic now. they should have stayed with the Neumann look.

kmetal, post: 467474, member: 37533 wrote:
If i were going the clone route i would go with a boutique maker like Peluso, Bees Knees, Cathedral pipes, who keep prices down without cutting (alot of corners). Without the enormous marketing expenses a company like warm has, and the warehousing and administrative costs, these small companies can maintain their profit ratio and higher quality.

Yes and yes. The Cathedral Pipes mics blow away everything in their price range and most in quite a bit higher price wise. Charles makes great mics and there's NO cutting corners. I own 2, a Seville active ribbon and a U67 clone which is the only one he built as a test bed for a model for his line. It has a Neumann cap and everything a U67 is supposed to have as well as Charles' mic building expertise and I would put it up against ANY tube vocal mic. It's that good. I have heard and seen in action every one of his line including several he no longer makes and they NEVER fail to impress. ABSOLUTELY the best value in this business.

I recently heard a recording that the vocals were through a BeesKnees Elly FET and it sounded really nice and full. Of course there's no telling what process they used to get it there, but generally if there's a "pinch" in a mics voice it never goes away.

The Pelusos are professional pieces of kit. It becomes whether they fit your ear not whether they are quality.

I have a decent LDC collection. Everyone needs variety in their vocal mic department. Besides the U67 clone, and the Seville ribbon(based on the RCA 77 form factor), I also have a 1982 Neumann U87 that has had the Gotham Audio choke removed, a Bock/Soundelux U195, 2 ADK Area 51 TTs that have been modded, one is a E LAM 251 circuit with an ADK GK12 custom shop capsule, and the other is a U47 circuit with an ADK T-47 custom shop capsule. Both power supplies upgraded both very excellent mics sounding 'in the vein of' what they are based around. I also have several 'others' one of which is a KEL HM-7U. This is a dual FET transformerless LDC that punches WAY above it's pay grade. Too bad Kelly isn't making mics any more.

I gotta say....Marco, if you're looking for a forever LDC tube mic, the Cathedral Pipes will win every shoot out it's entered in. They should cost 5K but they don't. Research. Look at the reviews. Call Charles. He's accessible.

Kurt Foster, post: 467476, member: 7836 wrote:
i don't have a horse in this race. i am just interested in someones opinion on what the Warm mics actually sound like.

I bought a WA-47jr and tought it sounded quiet nice and in ballpark of the 47 style mics.
I don't think anyone will pretend warm-audio is the perfect company and maker of the most accurate clones. But they make some usable gear for sure..

Here's a video where I compare 2 U47 style mics

kmetal, post: 467474, member: 37533 wrote:
If i were going the clone route i would go with a boutique maker like Peluso, Bees Knees, Cathedral pipes, who keep prices down without cutting (alot of corners). Without the enormous marketing expenses a company like warm has, and the warehousing and administrative costs, these small companies can maintain their profit ratio and higher quality.

I'm checking Cathedral Pipes mics, they seems all inspired from the U47 except for the ribbon.. Honestly, I would be so happy to own one, but I'm looking for a more modern sound, something in the trend of the U87 up front with sweet HF.. . .

The Peluso seems like a blast in quality but they are a bit over my budget..
The P67 is $2,587 USD

pcrecord, post: 467486, member: 46460 wrote:
I'm checking Cathedral Pipes mics, they seems all inspired from the U47 except for the ribbon.. Honestly, I would be so happy to own one, but I'm looking for a more modern sound, something in the trend of the U87 up front with sweet HF.. . .

First, I would not get so caught up in the form factor. A real Neumann U47 these days, if you could afford one, would be at the least, 56 years old. And, unless you have experienced a U47, it's not like they didn't have a beautiful articulate high-end. Certainly not as 'bright' as a U87Ai or a AKG 414 but still with plenty of clarity to go along with the smooth low-end. My U87 is not a bright mic. Since it is first generation, it was voiced to replace the U67.

When you say "modern" Marco, exactly what is that?

My takes on a mics performance is there is no 'pinching' anywhere in it's frequency response and that it doesn't have some section of it's response that stamps it in such a way that every track is going to have that stamp no matter what it's content.

"Modern", to me, is about the material not the tools.

Marco, you have microphone parts builds. How does your T47 sound? How about your T12? I have an engineer friend who has built three of the S87's. He mods them up a bit and swears by them. I like his recordings with them. I would say it falls into a "modern" sound??? But its more about the material he records which is alt-rock stuff. I would think your KSM44's are right up there with some of the better FET mics and I personally LOVE the KSM32. I had one and sold it in a fit of GAS and regret it.

I recently bought a microphone parts S3-12 and I'm very happy with how it sounds. I plan to use it mostly as a room mic and that is why I bought the patterns. The mic-parts mics sound to me much better than many of the budget priced clones in the same price range.

As for the Warm mics. I demo'd a WA 87 FET and was kinda 'meh' about it. I have other mics that handle the FET sound much better...the Bock for sure, the KEL the Neumann....I can't speak to the 67 clone but the demos online don't excite.

I have not gotten a chance to work with a Mojave mic but if they are even close in quality to my Royer then they have to be in the excellent range in quality sound and build.

pcrecord, post: 467486, member: 46460 wrote:
I'm looking for a more modern sound, something in the trend of the U87 up front with sweet HF.. . .

the modern U87ai are ok (I owned one ) but there are other alternatives within your budget (or close) that you’ll find. After doing an A/B with a new U87 I sold it for a few grand with a big smile.
being said, I think the reason the u87 works so well is they seem to fit in a mix better than a lot of mic’s for both men and women. It’s not that they are silky smooth (at least the ai I owned) , but it was simply a good mic with that perfect mid range.

audiokid, post: 467488, member: 1 wrote:
the modern U87ai are ok (I owned one ) but there are other alternatives within your budget (or close) that you’ll find. After doing an A/B with a new U87 I sold it for a few grand with a big smile.
being said, I think the reason the u87 works so well is they seem to fit in a mix better than a lot of mic’s for both men and women. It’s not that they are silky smooth (at least the ai I owned) , but it was simply a good mic with that perfect mid range.

Agreed. A couple of years ago a guy offered me an Ai for stupid money and I almost bought it. After bringing it into my room and A/Bing it with my original build (not Ai) 87 I realized I would probably just turn it and for a profit! But I'm lazy. I get the "perfect midrange" ...yep yep.

Tell ya the truth, that Neumann wasn't "better" than the KEL HM7u I bought from you years ago. And the KEL was a third the price.

pcrecord, post: 467486, member: 46460 wrote:
I'm looking for a more modern sound, something in the trend of the U87 up front with sweet HF.. . .

414

Yeah! But which one? LOL. I have an EB. First model after the brass plate C12 cap. It's.....interesting....

I had an xls which was versatile and got a fair amount of use on vocals.

I longed for an 87, and by the time i used one i wasn't at all impressed, except for acoustic guitars. I used it mostly on those and kick drum. I found it very "picky" on which voices it worked with, and in 5 years only ever used it for spoken word and grouo vocals. There were always better options. I found it overly bright, especially in the mids. To me it was made to track to tape. Where that extra boost would get compensated for. Maybe the one we had was just broken or something. The 441, 414 xls/uls, tlm 102, sm7, all got alot more use on vocals. When i got to use the c12 it was really a step into wow. Id actually take a tlm over an 87ai sonically.

I wouldn't expect a cathedral pipes to sound vintage. When i think u47 i think "full" "robust", having never used one i can't say. Modern mics and gear almost never actually sounds vintage to me.

If i was going "modern" i think mojave fits the bill. More like a current classic. Its full range but not harsh smooth mids and bright top, bases on what ive heard of the ma2/300 and their fet mic that's a good grab at 800$.

Im a big fan of the 414, but since they've changed at least the casing since my 2006 era xls, im looking into Austrian audio when i get another one. My xls is in thr basements for sale pile, as one of the few remains of my liquidation and re- build. Austrian audio is making 414 style mics without the Harmon cost cutting. I "think" they are using the brass ring capsule but don't quote me. Tho i did find the xls had a useful bright articulate top end. Great with a Manley dual mono and tl100 compressor. They go pretty cheap these days 400-500 used. Probably worth having one or a pair.

Warren Huart does a review of the FET Mojave MA201, with downloadable tracks. If you can't review a mic yourself, this should give a bit of perspective on how it behaves on a variety of sources.

Davedog, post: 467487, member: 4495 wrote:
How does your T47 sound? How about your T12? I have an engineer friend who has built three of the S87's. He mods them up a bit and swears by them.

I did build those 3 mics, T47, T12 and S87. I think they kind of represent, as an inspiration, what people think of the U47, C12 and U87.
The T47 is dark sounding with nice lowend but take EQ very well. The T12 has a big bump in the HF, not too hyped but obviously there.
The S87, for me sits in the middle. It's my favorit on my voice and VO.

My idea to add one more mic was first motivated by having my first tube mic and After the 47, 12 and 87, I first thought the 67 would be a bit different and would complete the classic pannel.

kmetal, post: 467492, member: 37533 wrote:
Im a big fan of the 414,

I haven't thought about it.. The C414 XLS is now 1699$ CAD brand new.
The question is, how different will it be from the others I have.. Also Compared to the Mojave MA-200 ??

Just saw some C414 xls at 1144$ and 1103$ CAD on ebay from Japan.. Clones ??

pcrecord, post: 467533, member: 46460 wrote:
I did build those 3 mics, T47, T12 and S87. I think they kind of represent, as an inspiration, what people think of the U47, C12 and U87.
The T47 is dark sounding with nice lowend but take EQ very well. The T12 has a big bump in the HF, not too hyped but obviously there.
The S87, for me sits in the middle. It's my favorit on my voice and VO.

My idea to add one more mic was first motivated by having my first tube mic and After the 47, 12 and 87, I first thought the 67 would be a bit different and would complete the classic pannel.

I haven't thought about it.. The C414 XLS is now 1699$ CAD brand new.
The question is, how different will it be from the others I have.. Also Compared to the Mojave MA-200 ??

i don't know how different it would be from your mics, its pretty much a workhorse. I haven't used the ma200 but in demos ive heard online i think it may have a bit mire robust low end than a 414.

If you have a bunch of versatile mics maybe something that has more character makes most sense at this point. A 414 is a good first ldc due to its versatility.

You might find a 414 or pair cheaper on CL or reverb if you keep your eyes open. They're sorta evergreen mics, just good to have for any studio.

From what ive heard in demos the Austrian audio version has a bit more of a smoky top end like the classic 414eb. Its kinda like a blend of all the versions. Not sure what pricing is like.

The 414 is nice because its not harsh. Its a bit bass light/ neutral, with a top end peak. But its never harsh. You might like it alot for overhead and acoustic guitars.

You may also like the 414uls. Its a bit less hyped in the top end, but does have less polar patterns. Its switches are physical too vs watever the xls buttons are. I've used both im not sure which one id prefer if i only had one.

Hey Marco this vid came up on my feed. I thought you may be interested in the mic. He compares it to a Mojave. To me it sounds really good, in the way that its really not overly hyped, and sibalance and consonants are not exaggerated the way some other mics do. Its actually on my list of potential LDC. It just doesn't seem to accentuate any of the bad stuff, room or off axis stuff. I bet this thing shines thru a nice channel strip, and would be surprised if it didn't take eq really well. I think i like it not because its impressive, but because of how balanced it sounds, how devoid of artifacts. Anyway just figured id mention it.

kmetal, post: 468025, member: 37533 wrote:
Hey Marco this vid came up on my feed. I thought you may be interested in the mic. He compares it to a Mojave. To me it sounds really good, in the way that its really not overly hyped, and sibalance and consonants are not exaggerated the way some other mics do. Its actually on my list of potential LDC. It just doesn't seem to accentuate any of the bad stuff, room or off axis stuff. I bet this thing shines thru a nice channel strip, and would be surprised if it didn't take eq really well. I think i like it not because its impressive, but because of how balanced it sounds, how devoid of artifacts. Anyway just figured id mention it.

Hey Thanks K,

This is an interesting comparaison. Althought he compared the TF11 FET and the MA-201FET and I'm debating about the MA-200 tube mic.
The MA-200 that I look for is 1549$ CAD
the TF11Fet is 1139$ CAD.
The MA-201Fet 1069$ CAD

The closest tube mic (in price) from Telefunken would be the TF29 (1749$ CAD).. It would be a very nice to have but its EQ curve is so different I'm a bit affraid it would not fit many voices.. on the other and if it sounded the same as my other mics, It wouldn't make much sens to spend that amount..

I still need to think this through before ordering.... If only I could borrow both. The MA-200 and TF29..
I think when I'm ready I'm going to talk to my reseller and see if they can arrange something..

Good morning Marco. I want to throw another mic in the ring for you to consider. You can hear how it sounds by listening to my latest post in the critique section with the Ben Davis song "Scars". I produced the track but I used his vocal track completely. The ONLY thing I had to do to it was balance the levels in the track due to his mic technique which I did by hand and by word in some parts but still didn't have to EQ and there is very little else on the track. There's always a little LA2A on any vocal track I produce but this one isn't driven.

The mic is a MikTek C7e. Made in Nashville. It's patterned and switch a lot like a U87. He also tracks through a MikTek MPA-201 preamp into an Apollo Twin and uses Studio One as his DAW.

Give the vocal a listen on that track. I had personally heard a MikTek tube mic and liked it quite a bit however at the time I was covered with the tube mics.....still am. But in this case, and I have heard several of his vocal tracks now since I'm producing his record, I'm VERY impressed with mic and how it sits in a mix.

Check it out. I'll bet it's around the same price as others you are looking at. The tube version I heard is the CV4. Which is the big dog in their line.

Also on that track....I recut the bass and the bass is through the UK 1173. And nothing else. Nothing.

The WA-67 to my limited knowledge is the only one that incorporates the correct negative feedback circuit, a true clone. Where warm falls apart is build quality, sloppy solder and poorly cleaned boards etc.  I have two of these and a Neumann to compare here.  the warm capsule isn't great, one arrived with moisture in between the mylar and backplate.I had already planned to swap the capsule anyway. After putting in new capsules and old stock EF86 tubes WA-67 sounds remarkably close to the Neumann. I placed them head to head thru same preamps tracked some drums, sent the files to two buddies blindly labeled and they both picked the WA-67.  I still prefer the Neumann but its so close now I can easily record them as a pair. 

Just my user opinion

Thanks for the Info JC, 

I put this on pause for now.. I might go with something very different like the Telefunken TF29. But it will wait, I'm in the process of changing my two UK sound 1173.. I'll see later ;)

Thanks for all the help guys !