Support is the big issue, I suggest you investigate room treatment.
A free plug can come and go, may or may not be improved.

Also if you just use presets, your missing the boat.

8)

Room treatment is not what im interest here... And i don't use presets, didn't i say i used same settings on every effect? They do not have same presets...

Cmon it can't be only support... Paying big money only for support is foolish... And yeah if free plug in go, ill just find new one...

I would understand if commercial plug ins cost 100-200$ per bundle but its $3000-$5000!

To make it clear im not bashing commercial vsts im just curious

It's difficult to say from individual tracks what makes a $3000 plugin pack worth the money. Sometimes what doesn't seem obvious comes out over the course of a mix. Often what makes the difference is the interaction or the resulting sound from compounded tracks over a mix that makes the difference. A poorly coded plugin may develop artifacts when used in multiple instances over a larger mix.

That all being said, I don't own any Waves plugins. I'm a fan of Endorphin and Big Tick Audio's Fish Fillets plugins. Endorphin is one of my favorites. You have to keep in mind though that these were written by one of the developers for Magix (Samplitude, Sequoia). It's free but the man knows his business.

I do own some paid for plugins that I prefer over any free ones. These are UAD powered plugs though.

I have heard the Waves SSL, and Classic series plugins and they do sound fantastic but these are modeled plugins as well. Are they worth the money? I don't know. I'd be more willing to buy the IKmultimedia or UA equivalent for a fraction of the cost.

Thank u for ur reply.
Yeah im not talking bout UAD ill buy it soon...

And yeah i agree poorly coded plug in may cause troubles but im talking bout great ones like Endorphin and fish fillets plug ins. I tryd them and i think they are great, i google it and saw other people like them also but even then they are spending money on commercial vsts.
I don't know bout waves SSL but if they are sounding just 10% of real SSL i can understaind why would people buy it but i don't know why would anyone wanna buy C-1 or whole diamond bundle (sept if they wanna have effects and stuff)...

Also can someone answear my second question?
Im trying to get by cheap so untill i get UAD is behringer compressor (or any othe cheap compressor) better than vst's?
(i have digi003 rack if that is important)

now its sounding like im baschin waves...lol I took tham just for exmpl

I use a lot of the same plugs you and hueseph mention.
I am a fan of the Kjaerhus plugs as a free one, myself.
It's a matter of getting results, really. What works, works.

Like hueseph said, the cheaper ones can create artifacts when used multiple times in a mix. The expensive ones don't. Plus, the expensive ones have some nice emulations of classic outboard gear. The same? No. But I like the way it works.

I'd avoid Be*ringer stuff... I have a 3 of their products. One is a headphone amp that gets regular use, the other two (preamp and EQ) sit on the floor. There's a reason for that.

Yes i know bout behringer... Altho, headphone amp is useful and patchbay (for the first hand).
Let me change my question...
Is there any cheap compressor that is better than any plug in? (especially for drums)

Try it out in stores is not an option for me

I can recommend the dbx 166 line.
Others might also go for other dbx products.
I also own an RNC, but I think there are issues w/ it (used).

Either way, they're gonna be around $200 each and may not be any better than your software comps.

Oh yeah i might go with dbx...
What is the difference between 166 and 266?

Free VS commerial can only be valued by the user. There is some free stuff that is quite good and there is commercial stuff that is not good or even bad.

If you don't need commericial, then save your money. It also very much depends on the source in how it works with commericial or free.

Diff betweewn dbx 166 vs 266?

What is the difference between two piles of crap?

Why don't you tell us what you really think? There is no need for sugar coating!

AudioGaff wrote: Diff betweewn dbx 166 vs 266?

What is the difference between two piles of crap?

Really? I heard alot of good things bout it... Than again i heard alot of good things bout ART...

What would u recommend then?

Ok i tryed dbx 266- its a same compressor just without limiter and it sounds great! I don't know why u called it crap cos it sounds better than any vst

Its prob not perfect but for that money and that sound i would go with it every day

Ok i stop reaserching and buyed 166...
266 is great and i thought 166 would be the same but no it sounds amazing! Can't believe it for that price! It works best on kisc and snare and that was exactly what i was looking for! Thank u for ur recommendation (soapfloats)

Anyway AudioGaff u are mod here and i respect that but u don't know what ur talking about...

I don't know why u called it crap cos it sounds better than any vst

I call it crap because I have the skills, education and experience to know what is crap and what is not. You may like it. Lot's of people like or have liked it. That doesn't mean it is, or sounds good. Lot's of people have no clue what is good and what is not or what they are missing so they just go with cheap crap.

I have likey spent more money on just one of many hardware compressors than you have in all the audio/music software and audio gear that you have ever owned or used. That helps make me qualifed to know what is crap and what is not.

I'd suggest you search the archives here and other places to discover what a good, or even decent compressor is, and then rent one so you can come to your own conclusions.

There are plenty of plugs that sound 100X better than a 166 or 266. Of course you have to have the skills to know how to use a compressor. Using a compressor and the art of compression/limiting is the most misunderstood, overused and abused audio tool known to man.

You may have very unrealistic expectations of what a compressor is or does just like most people making music today. While it can often do magical things, it is not the magic pill most people think it is or people try to make it to be. A poor or crappy sounding source is still a poor or crappy sounding source even after you apply compression. Many times compression makes a crap sound, sound even worse than the original crap that you started with.

Avoid the crap...

My lack of english and my newb questions that are newb on purpose cos i wanted to get more understandable answers may look i don't know much. But...

Im a successful musician. Not big but i live of my music and that is successful in my book.
I also have diploma and masters degree from S.A.E. audio engineering. I worked with neve channel strips, ssl boards, and almoast everything from digidesign. (i didn't think this is relevant but with this i "spent more money" story of urs i guess it is)

I asked for a compressor that will get a job done and i got answer. Not just that i trayd it out and it sounds good. Also what u think i didn't search the archives?

here moonbaby said he has one
(Dead Link Removed)

Remy suggested one here

(Dead Link Removed)

Davedog and Remy (who i can see are most most knowledgeable people here) said they like them...

(Dead Link Removed)

Thers atleast 20 threads and everyone in every thread (sept u in one) said those are great so instead suggesting me to search the archives maybe u should do that urself...

Also ur saying u know plugs that are 100x better but u didn't even ba able to prove expensive plugs are better than free ones so, man... ur full of sh...

I take last part back. I don't wanna be disrespectful to anyone here. Thats not why im here. And i don't wanna argue here cos this thread is not bout that

I didn't read the threads you refer to, but I am willing to bet that you likely have taken what Remy, Davedog and Moonbaby said out of context. I think they would admit to you that the 166 is not a great compressor as much as it is a useable, easy to use compressor that is as good as anything else for the money. It is a good compressor for wankers that don't know any better. Of all the compresors that are being used to make professional music today, the dbx 166 is very low rated.

I have used them and am still forced to use them for live gigs from time to time. I cringe everytine I see one in a rack.

I search the archives myself all the time. But I don't really need to search the archives as being one of the longest members of these forums, I have been active in helping to create all those archives.

Oh I see. Another SAE graduate with no clue. Ok, that explains a lot of things.

Just because you have a fancy gold foiled paper to hang on the wall, that doesn't mean you know or are qualifed to do anything other than to show everybody that you had a lot of money and time to waste. You probably would have been much better off buying a decent compressor and learning from these forums for free.

Playing with fader atomation on a big SSL, turning knobs on a Neve strip and playing with a mouse connected to a Protools system is thousands of miles away from really learning the art of recording or having any real skills.

What has the fancy SAE paper gotten you? Are you working in a commerical studio with an SSL or Neve console? No.

Did they bother to teach you how to tell when two signals are out of phase? Or how to use microphone patterns of two or more mics on the same source? Did they bother to even discuss the 3 to 1 rule? Or even how a mic works?

No, I didn't think so. I can see that your money was well spent.

Didn't they even bother to teach you what makes a good compresor and what doesn't? How many dbx 166 or 266 units did they have in the SAE place. Not even one did they?

You like many others got ripped off. Try taking that worthless SAE paper to a real pro commercial studio to get a job and see how hard their belly's jiggle as they laugh you out the door.

Look, you bought your dbx 166. You seem to happy with it. That is all that really matters. I hope you enjoy it for years to come.

Gaff seems to be in grumpy mode
relax
breath in
breath out

Gaff is right about the 166
sure
it's OK
but not a CLASSIC
and if you ever find it as a plug ... it' will only be a marketing strategy

out of the cheap and cheerful units , it's probably one of the better ones

as for the Audio Courses
they work for some people and can help to give a starting point
but
Gaff and Myself feel that only buy getting down and dirty and doing it over and over again
fail
get up and do it again and try harder
and listen
and listen to others
and other people's recordings from the past
think about how they did it
apply ideas to your own recordings
and try to get better at recording and creating recorded music
a life's journey
same goes for LIVE sound work
working with the best and learning from the best
and it all takes time

there is no quick road

"Gaff is right about the 166
sure
it's OK
but not a CLASSIC"

Well yeah for the $150 u think i expected "classic"? For that money i said im very happy with it. I asked for cheap compressor that will get job done not expensive one which is 100X better. Ill prob buy TLaudio ivory but for now this is good and def not crap...
Ill not use it to record other people i just neded one for my own home projects. Christmas is coming so i have alot of work doing radio jingles and for what i need dbx is good.

"What has the fancy SAE paper gotten you? Are you working in a commerical studio with an SSL or Neve console? No. "

I got job as a sound technician on MTV. (they use 3 SSLs there btw) and they payed me for my school. It was oportunity i just needed to take. Thers nothing to with going there to get a job...

Did they bother to teach you how to tell when two signals are out of phase? Or how to use microphone patterns of two or more mics on the same source? Did they bother to even discuss the 3 to 1 rule? Or even how a mic works?

Man wtf u think they teach there? Nothing?
Of course they thought us all that.

"You like many others got ripped off. Try taking that worthless SAE paper to a real pro commercial studio to get a job and see how hard their belly's jiggle as they laugh you out the door."

I don't have any intetions to work for "real" commrecial studio.
But if i did what could i do sept SAE? Where would young person get qualified to work in "real" studio?
No studios here in my region wants u to work for them, even just as coffie boy and for free. Buy expensive equipment and learn bythemself? No
So even tho SAE was lil disappointing for me u cant bash it like that whan u don't even know what are they learning there...

Once again lol

"Did they bother to teach you how to tell when two signals are out of phase? Or how to use microphone patterns of two or more mics on the same source? Did they bother to even discuss the 3 to 1 rule? Or even how a mic works?"

U really dont know what are they teching there do u? lol

See what happens when new people come in here and don't like to be told the truth about things? It gets ugly....and they get upset defending their predetermined views.

Look, Borkky, when someone is gracious enough to invite you into their home to try to help you, (and this IS home to a lot of knowledgeable people good enough to help others for free), you don't start getting demanding and argumentative, and keep trying to sway them to YOUR way of thinking when they are trying to answer your question.

This is where you went off the rails:

"Anyway AudioGaff u are mod here and i respect that but u don't know what ur talking about..."

Shouldn't do that. Guaranteed to get a response, and you won't like it. If someone takes a bit of a poke at you, just sidestep it, and be cool about it. Sometimes, they're just being a bit obnoxious to get your attention, especially when someone doesn't seem to be listening.

Don't be the new kid in school, coming in all cocky and boisterous. You don't make friends that way. Questions and discussion are good. Offering opinions and information are good. Debating those is good. Insulting people who have invited you in is not good.

And, if you think AudioGaff was rough on you, just be glad you didn't have to learn the hard way about to interpret our good friend, Remy's, responses. :wink:

Kapt.Krunch

Yeah ur right im sorry...

I admit im a lil difficult to talk to sometimes.

I really don't like his answears and way he talks from start of this thread but yeah this prob. wouldnt happend if i didn't post that...

So i apologize

That is a lot to be learned from those us that can be grumpy or that can fly off the handle at times. Being cold, hard and dishing out tough love is often the kick in the ass that one needs to get in line and/or wise up so they can begin to really learn something.

I admit I get easily miffed and erked by "grads" that still have no clue and after their "pro" training and then come to a public forum to ask for help in picking out which cheap crappy compressor they are going to buy, and then want everyone to praise them to justify what they bought.

So, Kev was right. I guess I was grumpy. I was a grumpy ass. I'm Sorry about that. Since I am not wrong often, I can admit it when I am...

But for my fans, I am not going soft either. I still mean and meant everything I said. The fact that a SAE grad didn't even have a single clue about the dbx 166 completely proves my points.

Guess I need to learn how to NOT take the bait when it is waived under my nose....

AudioGaff wrote: That is a lot to be learned from those us that can be grumpy or that can fly off the handle at times. Being cold, hard and dishing out tough love is often the kick in the ass that one needs to get in line and/or wise up so they can begin to really learn something.

I've learned as much or more from this site in this manner - especially from Remy. Agreements and pats on the back are well and good, but nothing can replace good old-fashioned brutal honesty.

I for one, come here for problem-solving and constructive criticism, and not to have my thoughts or methods validated.

I said. The fact that a SAE grad didn't even have a single clue about the dbx 166 completely proves my points

I do not have or worked in recording studio... I Sept SAE , MTV, and one studio where i record i didn't work with alot of equipment. I can't do nothing bout that...

Anyway im really sorry this topic went in wrong direction cos free vs commercial debate was interesting (to me)

long term support for the plug as versions and O/S changes is the issue

Koblo was a great soth Synth and free ... It's GONE !!
Red Valve IT was from Steinberg - GONE !!
and plenty more
Native instrument had a cool simple FM synth - free - GONE !!

Waves had Audio Track ... it was cool

I have some SM57s that were in my first recording purchase ... OK not a plug equivalent but you get the point

AND IF I had an original LA2 it could be older than I

ALL my plugs have been upgraded many times
but some of the originals now do not exist
ALL software needs to be seen as a subscription
:shock:
too harsh ?

hey does anyone know if they make a plug in version of the 166, or maybe some Berhinger stuff?

that would rock!

I've never used the waves products -- although I have heard some pretty good things. That said, it's always gonna depend on WHICH plugin, because every company seems to have flunky plugins. To get to the core question, free vs. commercial - I have personally had a lot better time with commercial products than I have with free ones.

It's gonna take some experimentation to find out which ones are worthwhile and which ones aren't. Luckily some companies have demos you can use or I would recommend just thoroughly researching anything you buy because the internet is a fairly good place to cut through the BS if you know what you're doing (example, if it's on the companies website, of course its gonna be a good review -- forums are usually a good place for info!)

So I vote commercial. I've been having good results with the izotope allow/ozone combo personally. For cool effects control I like sugar bytes products and there are countless more that I won't go into.

hope this helps.

song4gabriel, [[url=http://[/URL]="http://gvst.co.uk/g…"]GNormal[/]="http://gvst.co.uk/g…"]GNormal[/] sounds like it might do the trick.

It says right there in the description "...noise generator..."

Hey RO, here is an interesting article with a free plugin for dynamics monitoring.

I'm going to give it a try:

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/

http://productionadvice.co.uk/how-to-avoid-over-compressing-your-mix/

http://www.pleasurizemusic.com/

http://productionadvice.co.uk/how-to-avoid-over-compressing-your-mix/

After trying repeatedly to get access, the system's CAPCTHA is not working properly! What a bummer!

To finish my post from above, here is a link for an email list and a links to three plugins that are very useful for your mastering:

http://www.brainworx-music.de/index.php?nav=36&um=0&lang=de

The Dynamic Range Meter is great for verifying your final mix, I recommend these plugins.

Really, it is what you do with the tools you have. Look at a master piece like SGT. Pepper, made with limited tools. Music is about art and culture. I realize this is a gear forum but people forget that.