Hi and welcome to RO.

First just let me say this - it's 'professional', as in 'profession'. ;)

OK, so what style of music? How many tracks do you need to record simultaneously? What other gear do you plan on interfacing? PC or MAC? We need a lot more info before we can help. Also, you should think about speding money on acoustics before anything else.

lol,I know my spellings is not the greatest but any way I'll be producing
hip hop/R&B general "urban" music,I will be using synths/sound modules/vsti's /samplers and mabey some live instruments ie guitar/bass uhmm Im set up in my bed room for now.Im a pc user.

Heres my specs just incase its asked for at a later time.
P4 3.0
1024 mb DDR 400 ram
two 200GB hard drives in a RAID 1 config
(will be Getting an additional external drive in the near future)
450 power supply...that should cover the important things

I shouldn't need to record too many tracks at once 2-4 at the most Im a "one man band" so to speak.I don't really have anything as far as to what gear interfacing but I'll post my future set up to give you an idea of whatI will be needing.

Monitors/interface to be detirmined,lol
Preamp/condencer mic
a mixer if needed
daw controll surface
midi keyboard controller(usb)
turntable(s) and dj mixer
MPC 1000
microkorg
Motif ES rack
MultiFX rack
Mabey a voice prism
thats all for now of course I would like an interface that leaves room for future expansion...

hope this helps

ps:My room isn't that big and is pretty much square.

:roll:

:cry: bump

enormous open ended discussion topic and not easy to advise

I have a microKorg ... yeah I like it and I loved the editor BUT it doesn't work in OSX.
There is always a problem somewhere.

Monitors ... best you can afford ... at least one set of industry standards still makes good sense
Headphones ... best you can afford ... lean towards industry standards
Mics ... best you can afford ... lean towards industry standards

Mic-pre ... might depend on your demands but an industry standard and one that operationaly makes sense to you. No point having the worlds best if it just doesn't agree with you.

DAW control surface ... don't ... just my 2 cents

Keyboard controller ... keep it cheap but keep it comfortably under your fingers.
Unless you want a weighted one ... only you can choose here.

Sound modules ... sounds you like BUT the programming must make sense to you and invite you to dial in new sounds. Presets will only get you so far.

turntable(s) and dj mixer ... like Keyboards these have to feel good under your fingers and can be quite personal.

interface that leaves room for future expansion
ouch
over what time frame ?
things change and this might not be so easy to meet.
I think an interface that is cheap but still meets your sound qoulity needs is good and fee the cash up for the things that will last a lifetime.
In some cases the choice of Software will chose the interface.

lol...I allready have all that picked out the question was about a interface and a opinion on monitors...and [expletive deleted] industry standards!

one roll of the eyes and one bump

I only tried to add something as it looked like you wanted anything.

Monitors
so very personal and so far, absolutely no indication of room size or how loud you need to monitor .or if you need to be mobile
... but just a budget of

somewhere in the low end of the high end...

!!
main monitoring or secondary monitoring ?

When choice of gear gets difficult it is often cool to stick close to industry standards as they have become that way for good reasons ... but we are going to fuck industry standards.
ouch
??
... the self powered portable Genelec with perhaps the sub option.
otherwise keep it very cheap and go Event until you really find a monitor you like.

as for interface .. keep it cheap until you find what you really like.
You may end up with a producer pack with an SPDF out that will bypass the converters in your interface.

sorry ,
that's all I got

I appreciate your input but in my initial post I asked bout the Alesis Prolinear DSP 820's and a good interface to go with,This is my first studio so forgive my lack of info as to help base the opinions of others.I was actually thinking about getting a pair of secondary monitors on my way to work today...is that nesseccary?
I was thinking of having the Alesis as my main and mabey a pair of krk's as a secondary.also Im set up in my bedroom which isn't that big but it's not a closet either.and after reading my posts I did mention my space.might I also add that im in an appartment luckly my neighbors aren't asses.Ive blasted the home stereo on many occasions Ive never had 1 complaint so it shouldn't be a problem.Of course I know whats too loud so I won't be shaking the entire building and since Im set up in bedroom that isn't that big I won't need to be at very high volumes to get "high" volumes.
anything else im leaving I will post up if you need more info.thanks.

everything you say is to general. if you want to get answers here, you have to ask direct questions.

monitors: there are several threads on monitors on r.a.p. and here, use the search functionality. if you don't find what your looking for here, go to google groups. i have mackie hr824s and i like them. a lot of people on here don't. to each is own. i tried krks and i hated them. i'd really like to have genelecs.

interface: are you solely going to "produce" in your bedroom, or are you going to be working with professional studios as well? are you going to be recording other people or yourself? if you are going to need to interface with other people, you will want an industry standard like protools. if not, then do your homework and figure out which has the best reviews. there are a lot that will work for you.

software: depends on the interface.

industry standards: if you keep saying things like "[expletive deleted]", you will get very little help from people around here. there are many professionals here that do this for a living. industry standards are standards for a reason. if you want to record on sub-standard gear you will get sub-standard sound. unless you are the only one in the world that is gonna make your alesis sound like a 250k neve board. well, good luck.

a better outlook: see how much good equipment you can buy, cause your gonna end up buying it eventually, and your just gonna waste money going from prosumer equipment, selling it, and then finally realizing that pro equipment is what makes pro sounds.

you can believe me or not, but if you come on a board that has users who have been making music for 20+ years, and try to tell them they don't know what they are talking about, it is not likely to get you very much help.

interface: are you solely going to "produce" in your bedroom, or are you going to be working with professional studios as well? are you going to be recording other people or yourself? if you are going to need to interface with other people, you will want an industry standard like protools. if not, then do your homework and figure out which has the best reviews. there are a lot that will work for you.

I plan on working in professional studios as well as working/recording with other artists

industry standards are standards for a reason.

I think that reason is cause there widely used in the industry which makes them "standards" but the "standard" doesn't mean its the best or only way...imo

industry standards: if you keep saying things like "[expletive deleted]", you will get very little help from people around here. there are many professionals here that do this for a living. industry standards are standards for a reason. if you want to record on sub-standard gear you will get sub-standard sound. unless you are the only one in the world that is gonna make your alesis sound like a 250k neve board. well, good luck.

a better outlook: see how much good equipment you can buy, cause your gonna end up buying it eventually, and your just gonna waste money going from prosumer equipment, selling it, and then finally realizing that pro equipment is what makes pro sounds.

I am well aware that a pair of $1500 monitors will not sound like 250k neve board,obviously If we all had the money we would get the best of the best but most of us don't.
But Im also of aware of getting gear based on the long run and the "bigger picture" and thats is what Im trying to do but unfortunately I don't have the money to get a pair of Genies,Dyno's, or a hd/tmd protools rig and a avalon preamp,etc.I cant get the best money can buy so I gotta get the best my money can buy.ie $1500-$1800 on main monitors,$1000-$1200 for a preamp,$1000-$1200 for a mic,$800-$1200 for a interface,etc im a regular person who has to sacrafice things to get even the things mentioned above.

you can believe me or not, but if you come on a board that has users who have been making music for 20+ years, and try to tell them they don't know what they are talking about, it is not likely to get you very much help.

I never did anything of the sort...when I said [expletive deleted] the industry standards I shoulda said fuck protools cause it's one thing I don't feel thats nesseccary to get "pro" sound/results it is the opinion of others that made it a "standard",Logic,Cubase and others provide the same quality that protools does.Unfortunatley if to be successful in this business means using what everyone else does I'll have to retort back to [expletive deleted] the industry standards!

of course Im here looking for the help and opinions of others and not to stir up sh*t these are just my opinions...they don't call me Renegade for nothing.

The "F" word is unacceptable! Use a little imagination. RO is a top site on the search engine pages. No doubt there are 10 year old kids reading this stuff. We don't want thier parents or teachers walking by the computer and seeing that kind of thing on RO do we? Thanks in advance.

I have edited the thread.

187. You have a pretty realistic grasp of what it should cost to get you to a point that you want to achieve. To reply directly to the question, my advice for you is;

Mackie HR824's.

PTle 002 system (all the inzanoutz you need and the software is there too). Perfect for moving projects between studios.

An Avalon 737 for the mic pre channel strip. It's the sound you want, believe me

The mic is the most difficult thing. If cost were no concern, I would suggest the AKG C 12 VR or even better, if you could find one, a vintage C12.

C 414 B-XL II. Close the the above, same capsule type but no tube. Much less expensive.

The street price on these may take you over the budget you have outlined but I would be willing to say you will be able to get someone to do this in an all at once package for something you can afford. Have fun and good luck! (I love buying gear!). (y)

sorry for swearing in on the boards...I think I may just have to go with my instincts on the whole gear thing,and to add to my problems i live in Canada,lol.but seriously things are much more expensive here and there are NO DEALS I have too pay the list pricing and there is no good places to test monitors and such the ones they have in store aren't the ones I wanna try so far theyve had to order everything in..so with the monitors Im getting I won't have any basis on why I choose them either than a flippin spec sheet and the ever cool apearence.I can't really find any valuable reviews on them.but what I did find on them were good things,but at the same time I get alot of people saying Alesis don't make very quality monitors but im going to be a reble and get them anyway if all else fails I will trade them in for something else.Hopefully I can find a diamond in the rough with this purchase.
I was actually going to get the 824's but there 1999 before tax so thats way too much for my budget,and after reading on them they were not as good as people say but then again nothing really is there's allways bad things about every product mostly nitpicking,any way thanks to everyone for "putting up" with me,I know how I come across sometimes hope I didn't offend anyone that was never my intention.If anyone has something to add to this feel free.

OK so forget the Avalon for the time being ... that should leave budget for the Mackies and the PT rig and maybe a 414 B-XL II. Check out http://www.proaudiocanada.com - http://www.adkproaudio.com or http://www.littledogaudio.com

Really for doing urban and hip hop / rap the Mackies are the best for a small set up. Loads o bass - plenty of power!

PT is the only way to move your stuff between studios ... nothing else compares. If you want to forget being able to move into just about any studio when ever you wish, then there are other options. But if you want to interface with the industry, then you can't say "forget" them ... you need to comply to thier standards, because they won't comply with yours.

The rumours of E-MU dumping the current product line are bogus. True, they have announced new, additional products for the laptop to compliment the desktop PCI audio interfaces as well as new keyboard controllers.

The E-MU 1820 is a real professional digital audio product and not your daddy's soundblaster. There is so much power and flexability built in to the product that it has a higher learning curve to take advantage of it's capability. Many to most of the people that have problems with it are don't have DAW's that are powerfull enough or properly configured and/or are down right stupid idiots that have no clue on what there doing in the first place or those that are usually trying to use the product in ways it was not designed to be used such as playing DVD movies, MP3's and games. All of which are non professional audio applications.

The E-MU 1820M along with the EmulatorX sampling software is the most flexable and productive product right out of the box that I have ever encountered. While not perfect, and having some issues as any 3rd party product that runs under windows has, it is still a joy to use and hear everytime I use it. My primary use is as a idea and songwritting tool, it interfaces perfectly with my project studio and yet is up to par on it's own to be used without powering up the whole studio.

OK 187 Here another voice from someone who has had a Home Studio on various incarnations for 30 years and who has access to the better and best stuff at friends studios.. I don't claim to be a pro by the industry standards. Just a regular Joe who records himself and others for profit part time and sells CDs.

You do NOT need to buy the Avalon or Mackies, or any other high end gear based soley on what "experts" on this board claim are industry standards. Home studio "standards" Im sure are much different. After all you are building a HOME studio in your bedroom .

This is what my approach has been and works for me. For ALL your gear USE YOUR ears not someone elses ideas. Eliminate those you wont pay up to first. Try a variety of gear. Take a friend if possible. sales people can tweak any gear to make it "Appear" better. A/B with a CD or source you know well . CLOSE YOUE EYES and listen. You might be surprised at your choice. This works with Mics, pre amps, monitors best. THen after you find a piece you like A/B it with an "industry standard" piece costing much more. You WiLL have a much better idea of the cost/ benefit ratio. As well you might save a lot of money and know YOU chose the gear blindly that sounded the best to YOU.

I did this with pre amps comparing a with DBX, ART, and low end Focusrite, Joe Meek VCQ1 and i liked what VCQ1 sounded like best. Then I A/b d the Meek with the $1700 Avalon and guess what? The price benefit ratio just did not justify the added cost of the Avalon and I have been happy and more importantly not feeling, like the Meek is a temporary solution......

I bought a pair of Alesis Monitor Ones and thought I should upgrade them so I bought a pair of the in that day "new stars."The Mackie HR 824 (eturn policies are great)and placed them in my studio side by side on an A/B switch...I was able to get the Alesis Amped Monitor Ones with the help of a sub to sound very close to the Mackies using EQ. Again the Mackies went back. But MORE importantly I found a new respect for my Monitor Ones. I am now looking for a pair of Active Monitors to replace them and move them to another room. Im interested in the Event Precisions 8s and will AB thn with the Alesis Mark II and Warfdales which I have heard good things about. Then a pair of Genelcs last

I tried many mics including the Shure sm44, Neuman Tl103, and AT 4050 (much like the 414)and settled for the warmer soundng Rode NT2 to compliment an old Akg 414 which I personally find Brittle. The Meek Rode combination is a winnier for me and I do not feel the need to go upscale like so many say is inevitable.

You cannot blindly act on what those who spent $10,.0000 on three pieces of gear say. Of course they are going to feel its the way you HAVE to go or predict you will go there anyway . Otherwise they look like industry standard Lemmings. rather than knowlwgable "pros" with 20 years of experience.

Your own ears will giv you all the answers you need and YOU will be happy with your gear and may never feel the need to "upgrade" to studio standards.

Regarding Pro Tools. Unfortunately Pro Tools for reasons that have little to do with TODAY'S product is very common but is in its format and plug ins. I don't need to tell you what propietary can cost you. Many other software platforms do convert to Pro tools format OMF. So you are not bound to them either.

Use you ears and ALWAYS A/B with the best gear. You will either feel good about your less expensive brand or have to have the best. either way you will be satisfied for a long time.......

The bottom line is I saved thousands and am very happy with my result which has been positivly graded by real pro engineers who have major studios and have recorded Major recognizable names. They were encouraging and even a bit surprised at the quality available to us Home "producers" Comments were akin to EQ adjustments to get a fatter low end on my orchestrata samples. Not noise or gear issues. I have learned to sqeeze the last bit out of this gear.

Total cost? $600 for the VCQ1, $399 for the Rode...kept the Monitor Ones. All tracked throuh a Mackie board to an Aardvark L6 using seconday monitors consisting of Radio Shack minimus 7s

He showed me how to use a high budget recording by Sting and others as referenced to the syyle of music Im doing as a referece to get the sound, space and EQ balance I want. This is priceless for those with inferior monitors this way because you can use any monitor to mix on . Recording reference monitoring is much more critical but still is possible to achieve to satisfaction.

Good luck I hope this alternate opinion helps

Great reply It's good to know Im not doomed cause im not rich!
But unforunatly I don't have the luxary of testing/ comparing anything blindly or otherwise Im in Canada,Winnipeg specificly and we only have two places that sell this kind of stuff Ive only been going to one tho I'll check out the other one when the time permits.but I called them yesterday to get a price check on the DSP 820's but it never came up in the computer only the 720 model so I called the one Ive been going to ever since I got myself into this and they sent a order for them and I put down a deposit today...I know it's not the smartest thing but I dont have any means of testing them first so Im just gonna pray,lol.I'll be getting my interface next...Here's my future set up.(for recording)

Custom PC
P4P800-E Deluxe/865PE+ICH5R chipset
P4 3.0
1024MB dual channel DDR 400 Ram
Two 200 GB Hd's in a Raid 1 config (Audio)
External Hd not sure whats a good size (OS/Programs)

Alesis Prolinear DSP 820's (monitors)
RME Multiface(interface)
MIDIsport 4x4(midi interface)
Presonus Eureka (preamp)
Shure KSM27 (mic)

Adobe Audition 1.5
Cubase SX 3
Ozone 3

I personaly think this is a great set up...Of course upgrades will take place but this is a good start for me.

Others may scoff but i think you have a good basis to begin putting your music on CD. You will learn to squeeze the most out of your gear. Do not buy anything expensive before listening to the result to see if it's worth the expense for you. Nothing is worse then spending too much for something and having your expectations dashed by a nice but relativly small difference in what you hear in the final mix under microscopic aural conditions.Lets face ot most people do not listen to a CD as critically as those who record and mix it. And at that in high background moise situations as well. So much is wasted on little tweaks that will go generally unappreciated.

Agreed

Yeah .... that's it. because a lot of people are deaf (obviously frog is) that's a great reason to justify doing crappy work with crappy gear. Yeah that's it! That's the ticket.

You only get one chance to be heard sometimes. Do you want it to be as good as possible. get some good front end. No way around it. Don't give a sh*t? Then by all means cheap out. "It's all in what you value", as George Harrision once wrote.

It would be sad to be left wondering what may have happened if you had traveled that extra mile. I say make it as good as you can. frog says don't worry, no none knows the difference. I say someone does, or else why all the high end gear? Just because frog is deaf, doesn't mean everyone is... Which sounds right to you? As good as you can, or good enough? It's your call. :roll:

Yeah .... that's it. because a lot of people are deaf (obviously frog is) that's a great reason to justify doing crappy work with crappy gear. Yeah that's it! That's the ticket.

You only get one chance to be heard sometimes. Do you want it to be as good as possible. get some good front end. No way around it. Don't give a sh*t? Then by all means cheap out. "It's all in what you value", as George Harrision once wrote.

It would be sad to be left wondering what may have happened if you had traveled that extra mile. I say make it as good as you can. frog says don't worry, no none knows the difference. I say someone does, or else why all the high end gear? Just because frog is deaf, doesn't mean everyone is... Which sounds right to you? As good as you can, or good enough? It's your call

And that diatribe 187 comes from your moderator!!!! :roll:

Let YOUR ears be the final word. If someone likes you songs you will het a deal and they will rerecord it anyway. A good song will be good using piano voice on a cassette recorder. No one expects masters from newbies. If you want a master go to a studio and make one.on someone elses' dollar,

If you want to make music and record in your bedroom and have a budget don't feel opportunity will pass you by because you did not have an Avalon Pre amp. You won't ge a deal becasue your recordings are technically perfect.

There are a whole lot of other things that will apply as well. Credible Record producers and A+R reps can "hear" a song in any mix. If not they will not be in business long. Most starving artists cannot buy the best gear. They know that.

Im here to say you don't need it until YOU feel your quality need upgrading. In the mean time go with what you can afford and start recording and learning.

ohhhh! interesting you would call that a diatribe ... I guess I'm not supposed to have an opinion? Why is it that people who can't answer a post with something intelligent always revert to that ... "You're a mod ... you should kiss everyone's a$$. You shouldn't be capable of forming a thought or offering a personal opinion"

I'll tell you what frog ... why don't you buy RO and then you can dump me and run it the way you think it should be run. Otherwise, knock it off.

frog, self appointed nominee for RO moderator wrote: No one expects masters from newbies. If you want a master go to a studio and make one.on someone elses' dollar,

Spoken like a true user and a taker but I don't agree ... Every project I heve ever sold to a record company was completly recorded by me. Record companies, industry muckie mucks and publishers want to work with people who have invested in themselves already.

Look at it this way ... what would you feel more comfortable with putting a lot of cash into. Something that the pricipals are already invested in or something that the proncipals could walk away from and suffer no losses?

Average money spent on an artist prior to a record deal ... about a million bucks .. who is gonna pony up, if you won't even invest in yourself?

frogs advice is some of the worst I have ever read on the RO pages ...

. :roll:

Look at it this way ... what would you feel more comfortable with putting a lot of cash into. Something that the pricipals are already invested in or something that the proncipals could walk away from and suffer no losses?

Many artists are not expected to be producers or engineers no matter what they gear they record with. I think many would agree with that. And that being so would one buy a $3000 guitar before the first lesson? The guitar sound's great but the user cannot make it shine. A waste of money until the user knows enough to appreciate the advantage and wants said advantage.

If you ask me I'd feel more comfortable putting cash into TALENT and the music.. The quality of the Home made recording is not something I will judge talent on. But I come from the artst persprctive and many here are from the technical perspective and perhaps in some small way resent the artists even getting involed on the technical side via Home Studios.
.
There is a whole lot more than a recording that goes into getting a deal then a sqeeky clean demo.

When it becomes a requirement that artist's financial ability to produce a industry standard CD comes into play with regard to getting signed or not, the labels are in trouble......no wait ...they are in trouble. Go figure.

Boston was the only band I know of that went in with a demo made in a basement Home studio which became a release....anyone else anyone know of?

Sooooooo anyway

Well 187 Looks like your gonna have to spend $10.000 dollars on gear if you have any chance of being signed......not that that is even a goal of yours..Whip out those credit cards son . You will have no credibility as an Artist unless you do so.

Keep crushing dreams Kurt.

to be honest Mr foster you are quite narrow minded.

"that's a great reason to justify doing crappy work with crappy gear. Yeah that's it! That's the ticket."

I actually will be doing fantastic work with the gear I can afford which isnt bad gear at all If I would say anything in my set up isn't up to par would be the preamp and mic and even so it isn't so bad...theres people buying MXL mics and 200-pre's,audiophiles,Bx'5's,mk 2's,tr8s,and berrie mixers and other "budget" gear, even knoweldgable people can make good recordings with that type of stuff.And to be honest I am going that "extra mile"...I work at subway for fluc sakes!you can't imagine how much sacrafice/time and hard work it takes to get the gear that isn't up to YOUR standards for someone like me.When I get some extra income I will be upgrading but imo the only thing that needs upgrading is the pre and mic.Ive allready contacted a engineer to do the tasks that I wont be able to.and besides I speciialize in producing the "Music" ie instrumentals.The only reason Im getting the mic and preamp is to be able to record vocals in general wither there just scratch vocals or just to get ideas down...Im not building a recording falicity...yet.also keep in mind this is a project studio and if you don't think I can make a great demo with the gear Ive listed you need to check yourself.I understand that mabey you need the greatest gear so you don't have to do any real work and just let the gear do it for you but with some dedication,patience,and some knowledge you can get great results by knowing how to utilize what you have rather than expecting another piece of high end gear to make you any better.
I don't think this is the right enviroment for me to learn anything productive if even the mods don't have common sence...So Im going to find my place elsewhere,I enjoyed my short stay.Good luck everyone,and the best of luck to mr foster/staff with the site.

-peace

"Boston was the only band I know of that went in with a demo made in a basement Home studio which became a release....anyone else anyone know of?"

Pretty much every hip hop artist in the industry...Notorious BiG got a major record deal....his demo was a warped tape with him just doing his thing over some beats,a man and a mic with music in the backround.

Sorry to see you go.

Im sure "Mr Foster" would rather see me go .......

Best of luck.................

Pretty much every hip hop artist in the industry...Notorious BiG got a major record deal....his demo was a warped tape with him just doing his thing over some beats,a man and a mic with music in the backround.

Did'nt know that. Im not to up to date in the Hip Hop/Rap thing except that it is very inexpensive to record. Pre recorded loops and some vocals. I know Im simplifying it but it cannot be as difficult as recording an entire band. Alot of Lo Fi 8 bit samples as well.....lol recorded through $2500 pre amps....gotta love the "state of the art"

duplicate post deleted :shock:

187 wrote: Hey im new here and currently buliding a home studio for professinal productions and recordings

For the record, this is the first sentence that you wrote 187. If you are going to make such statements as "home studio" and "professional productions" you should learn what the terms mean in the eyes of REAL professionals before using such terminology. I know people here can be kind of harsh, but these are the forums where PROFESSIONALS talk about gear. There is another forum on this site called "Home, Project Studios". I think if you want questions on prosumer and low end gear, you should take it up in that forum. This one is called "pro audio gear" because it is intended to talk about gear for professional recordings.

187 if you want to just record demo quality material which you are making apparent by your equipment list, why don't you get an all-in-one recorder, and spend your money on good samplers/drum machines, etc. Get a MXL microphone (or insert reasonable quality chinese large condenser here), a presonus or art "tube" pre, an RNC and be done with it. There is no need to spend a bunch of money on not quite pro equipment when you are going to be getting the same results with a nice little audio workstation.

You don't need cubase or protools to record a demo.

Just do it biggie's way and just record yourself free styling into a boom box, and you should have a record deal in no time. here comes the bling.

My god. I can't belive how rude you've been. He only asked a few questions. Get off your high horses!!

Remember when you started out?? Or maybe you were too busy with your hands down the front of your pants dreaming of GML mastering and Urei 1176's.

Shame on you!! :!:

I do remember when I first started out and I was dreaming about the big mics and large consoles I saw in the magazines I was reading at the time, REP and others now long gone.

I did not intend to insult or offend 187 who unfortunately got caught in the crossfire between myself and kingfrog who I have been going back and fourth with for the past few days all over the site. Rather than point fingers or admonishing kingfrog for creating a situation where this happened as he has done to me, I will step up to the plate and simply say "I am sorry" to 187. None of those last posts were intended to be aimed at you.

However 187 asked about a professional set up to do urban R&B and hip hop production.

187 wrote: I plan on working in professional studios as well as working/recording with other artists ... Im able to make my own desicions im just not so quick to drop a shyt load of hard earned $$$ on mediocre gear!

He also asked about some speakers he had in mind that I rather dislike, the Alesis Monitors. Rather than slam them, I offered an alternative, the HR824s. Notice he specified he was not interested in "drop a shyt load of hard earned $$$ on mediocre gear!".

I offered him the most standard pieces used to do that type of work. These are not even pieces that I like in the least, but rather what I thought 187 would be most satisfied with in the long run, over time. For that, I do not apologize.

Now if 187 had worded his post to ask for validation for the Alesis monitors and some inexpensive mic and pre, I would have not responded to the thread. But that's not what he asked. he asked for some alternatives to create a professional studio and I simply obliged him.

I do agree his post is in the wrong forum. Should be in the Budgt gear or home studio forum.

That said after reading his needs I gave him the benifit of the mistake and answer with my own take. If its different from another's opinion why is that so bad.?

Some people insist on being the last word and when that is challenged, they take it as an afront to their sensibilities. It s only an ALTERNATE view no more no less.

I can understand why he left and that is a travesty for a forum whos purpose Im assuming who's purpose is to is to encourage and help those who come for that reason.

I never dreamed of SSL consoles and U87s in 30 years.
But I did not approach recording from soley a technical standpoint in as much as an economial way to get my ideas on tape or CD.

kingfrog wrote: That said after reading his needs I gave him the benifit of the mistake and answer with my own take. If its different from another's opinion why is that so bad.? .... Some people insist on being the last word and when that is challenged, they take it as an afront to their sensibilities. It s only an ALTERNATE view no more no less.

Your first post in the thread was an antagonistic attack aimed directly at my post. You could have made the same points without personably attacking me. Why the antagonism?

kingfrog wrote: You do NOT need to buy the Avalon or Mackies, or any other high end gear based soley on what "experts" on this board claim are industry standards. Home studio "standards" Im sure are much different. After all you are building a HOME studio in your bedroom .... You cannot blindly act on what those who spent $10,.0000 on three pieces of gear say. Of course they are going to feel its the way you HAVE to go or predict you will go there anyway . Otherwise they look like industry standard Lemmings. rather than knowlwgable "pros" with 20 years of experience. .... I can understand why he left and that is a travesty for a forum whos purpose Im assuming who's purpose is to is to encourage and help those who come for that reason.

You are free to voice your opinions regarding equipment and you can even say "I disagree with (insert name) ... but it's not acceptable to continue with these personal attacks against anyone, myself included. Keep your insults to yourself. I have warned you about this before and I will say it once more, next time I just delete it and any posts following it, regardless of who made them. I have to do this in order to keep thread continuity intact.

Oh Kurt Kurt Kurt

Your first post in the thread was an antagonistic attack aimed directly at my post. You could have made the same points without personably attacking me. Why the antagonism?

I never mentioned anyone specifically...but if the shoe fits. I was speaking gernerally and giving and alternate opinion. that may be more suited to his needs after reading "between the lines" in his post

You are free to voice your opinions regarding equipment and you can even say "I disagree with (insert name) ... but it's not acceptable to continue with these personal attacks against anyone, myself included. Keep your insults to yourself

Does this apply to yourself as well..Im only following by example......

Spoken like a true user and a taker.

adirect response to my alternative opinion

frogs advice is some of the worst I have ever read on the RO pages

. another attack on my opinions

Yeah .... that's it. because a lot of people are deaf (obviously frog is) that's a great reason to justify doing crappy work with crappy gear. Yeah that's it! That's the ticket.

And yes another direct insult......pot calling the kettle black..I do not think I have made a personal attack on this thread at you in any form.......

(Dead Link Removed)

187 this is a link to a recording I did at home I linked to on this site .
I put it there because Kurt asked me too depite my better instincts. But I have nothing to hide and so there it is. Make your own judgement.

The gear list is there and you can decide for yourself if its of a quality you would find acceptable or not.

All the gear is low and low mid range...nothing high end in the signal chain. No room tratments.

All argument aside.......... Thats the best way to decide what is good enough. Use your ears and your wallet will follow..

I understand my "budget" isnt in the "pros" budget but by no means do I belong in the budget forum...

Unfortunatly your song isnt working for what ever reason.

Thanks Kurt for making yourself clear. I appreciate that.

Although I bought a pair of Alesis Monitor 1s over 10 years ago and still have them. I actually think they are nice monitors and still stereo mix on them occasionally. Most of my work now however calls for more precise speakers. Nevertheless, for hiphop I think they's do fine. The M-M-M-Mackies would also do well but for that money i'd go Dynaudio BM6A.

As for Audio Interface - I'm PT biased so i'd go for a Digi002.

Mic's Frogman's Rode choice is a good one in my book. Have used them before and I quite like 'em. They aint a Neumann but work well in a variety of applications.

Pre-amp. There aint any in your price range that are brilliant, but there are some decent performers. My Choice would be a TL Audio Ivory Series Quad Valve or a DBX Optical Transformer Model.