The $5kish on a current offer is somewhat limited in just what it offers. To put together a system that would not even cover a 1/3 of my current system would be well beyond double that.
But I to do like what has been tossed out there.
I do feel that RADAR is still not hitting the nail on the head as they say, I think their AD / DA system should and could well be better capitalized upon.

It looks kinda cool in an 80's sampler kind of way . It would be really difficult to believe it would come close to what I have at half the cost. Sound wise, I'm sure its comparable to anything today. Its only as good as the DAW and the guy behind the wheel keeping an eye on it.
Its got way too much crap in one box for your own good.
I wonder how hot and hot loud the fans are when this thing starts getting loaded up? Today, everyone wants silent desktops to track in control rooms. And the less heat around your converters the better.

The touch screen response is no better than my O3D 20 years ago as a controller. I can see the latency on this video, which would drive me nuts. What are these guys thinking. They are selling this to the people who have had a poor experience with DAW's. Most likely Pro Toolers as well. Which is all because of the excessive plugins and slow CPU around that platform.
24 channels... In another 2 years 64 channels will be common. All those added ports are added costs I don't need. Who needs all that.
Once you start adding in"plugins" lol, its no more stable than the DAW itself. Who are they kidding here.

imho, this is as dated as the last versions and will never take off in a big way. No disrespect but coming at Pro Audio from where I sit, you couldn't sell this to anyone who has had the great experience modular hybrid systems offer today.

Being said, if it gets the job done, then its great for whom ever uses it. Thats really the most important thing.

If I recall correctly that 5k is only for a 8 channel striped unit with no controller or much of anything.

http://www.izcorp.com/dealers/price-a-radar/

I didn't run the price but I'm sure its going to be just around $20,000 to get a good start on it.

I loved seeing this :)
Windows 8.1 OEM Professional: full license, stripped down to maximize performance.
And who said Apple was better? The reason why PC is the system of choice is clearly because it can be stripped down to just whats needed. And Apple has no interest is allowing anyone to mess with their cloud market.

Is Windows the better choice in Pro Audio now? :cool:

I like Frenchie, he inspired me to look at Pulse Techniques Pultecs.

Turn-key systems can be great - if they do what you need them to.

In the end, you just need to be sure that it can accommodate your needs, that it's expandable for when your needs change, and that it's giving you a bang for the buck that is acceptable to you.

about 15k for a basic 24 channel system .... and that's without the digital ins and outs ...

i agree with what Donny just said. i was wondering the same thing ... can the processor be upgraded later? how about digital in out protocol? what happens when the next thunderbolt comes ... will Radar Studio be able to upgrade or will it turn into a door stop? .... a 15k doorstop.

Thats the same thing I'm saying just not as pretty in my words,. Its nothing but a dead end. I'm sure it will be upgradable but who cares. If you used what I have, and saw how stable and wonderful a simple DAW is with a DAW that only uses Windows, built for Windows, and you don't fill it up with a bunch of crap, and you have nice converters, there is nothing more you need. I don't even need to upgrade. It works.

I would challenge anyone who claims Radar sounds better than Samplitude straight out of the box and the Orion32. Those two pieces are everything Radar is and more. $4200 plus a nice custom built PC. perfect.

Chris, post: 425515, member: 1 wrote: Samplitude straight out of the box and the Orion32. Those two pieces are everything Radar is and more. $4200

actually less than that. samplitude pro x $489. orion 32 $2435.

it's the "custom built PC" that i have problems with. i just don't see them lasting more than a couple of years before they are rendered useless by manufactures and software designers "advances". how long can you continue to use an OS that no longer has support? how long will you be happy when you can no longer get the latest plugs?

Kurt Foster, post: 425505, member: 7836 wrote: too bad someone doesn't develop for wide spread distribution, a pre configured / optimized lap top with built in multi channel converters that would do the job, so we could dispense with all this constantly evolving / changing fire wire / thunderbolt / usb / ethernet / madie interface nonsense.

Wow that's cheap for the Orion 32. But I'm also thinking Samplitude pro x 2 suite which has the mastering suite . It's excellent.
So add a custom pc for $2000 and you'd really have a great setup
Add the mp32 and you'd have 32 pres
Add a few boutique pres and maybe an la2a / 1176 and a few mics. You'd still be less $ than Radar.

Chris, post: 425517, member: 1 wrote: Wow that's cheap for the Orion 32.

at the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://antelopestor…"]Antelope e-store[/]="http://antelopestor…"]Antelope e-store[/]

i'm still thinking a maxed out computer is going to be more than 2k ...

If I were in the market for someth g like this, a turnkey, I'd be looking into the Yamaha/steinberg nuage.

It's not like mouse free, but the the mouse has a valuable place and is very good for some things. I like where this is headed. And the gap between studio and live is getting small. With wireless transmission and realtime mixing on the brink for the common mortals, logistics are no longer gonna keep pro rooms off of basement productions.

I like the idea of my audio system doing only audio. I like that it's not a mutt. I like the neat, and clean look. But still has a definite life span.

Waves wants like $200 per package to allow plug-insthe studio already owns, to work w the new OS. Or use the upgrade plan. Subscription audio scares me but really it makes the consumer no more powerless than they already are. Its no different than planned obsolescence. At least things are improving.

I dunno how much this nuage system is, but I would gues in the 20k range. All I could find in a quick google was 12k for 16faders, so this thing ain't cheap. But I have a lot of respect for Yamaha.

Kurt Foster, post: 425514, member: 7836 wrote: about 15k for a basic 24 channel system .... and that's without the digital ins and outs ...

...or will it turn into a door stop? .... a 15k doorstop.

I have gear like that. LOL. like the four Tascam DA88's in my attic. $1900 ( each) boat anchors... and along with those, there's also the:

Behringer UltraGain 8 ch FW I/O (I still don't know where I got this)
Mackie SR32x4 Mixing Console (I do know where I got this and I sure wish he'd come and take it back)
Mackie VLZ 2 ch Mixer (actually 4 channels, but only 2 XLR)
Aphex 124A Line Amp (I don't know how I got this, either, and, I don't even know what it does)
AudioLogic Dual Compressor (I think I won this in a poker game. Seriously.)
Symetrix Dual Paramteric EQ (a friend gave this to me. I think he was shooting for a joke that I never got - until he moved and it was too late.)
Aphex Model AX Type C Aural Exciter (Silver Face, circa 1987. I used it just once, which was plenty of time for me to find out I didn't like it a bit)
Digitech TSR-1 Guitar Processor (Don't have a clue how I got this. I'm not sure I've ever plugged a guitar into it.)
DBX 150x Encode/Decode Noise Reduction module ("okay... so the tape deck out goes to the in of A, and then A goes out to the in of C , and B gozinta D, which then goes... HISSSS... uhm, guess not.)
DBX 163x Compressor (single action, has just a single fader that adds compression... or not.)
Lexicon Prime Time DDL (awesome when Reagan was President...and I mean the Lexi, not Reagan. )
MXR dual graphic EQ (I love the shade of blue that this is. A very "1977" shade of blue.)
Tascam 1641 USB i/o (with a whopping 10db of gain! Hello? Can you hear me now? Hello? Is this thing even on?)
Proteus FX Midi Mod
Proteus Ultra Midi Mod
Alesis Midiverb
Alesis Microverb (sounds just like the midiverb, but smaller... and by small I mean the unit itself, not the reverb.)
Alesis D4 (Used on thousands of records. Awesome 16 bit technology. But the display is broken and dark, so I can't select anything other than"001-Industrial Kick", which is great, if you are 9 inch Nails. Not so much anything else.)

....not to mention the 4 Nakamichi MR2B cassette decks ... and a partridge in a pear tree.

Yeah, I got lots of stuff - stuff that doesn't really do anything other than weigh a lot.
My girlfriend has asked me, several times... "what is this stuff and why is it in this closet?" and I have no answer. None whatsoever. Zero. Nada. Zip. Goose Egg, Daddy-O.

I think it's a disease of the craft. Is there a 12 step program available for guys like us?

The first thing we have to do is to admit that we are powerless over anything and everything that makes, breaks, records, or alters sound in any way.

;)

d.

kmetal, post: 425522, member: 37533 wrote: the gap between studio and live is getting small

indeed.

As another example,
StudioLive is an amazing product that starts under $2000. Capture, the tacking software that comes with StudioLive consoles is unbelievable. It makes Radar tracking look like an over bloated joke. Radar is for people that don't see the new Capture concept coming. When, not if, StudioLive converters and pre's get as good as pro audio, thats all we would ever need. How long do you think it will be before PreSonus or anyone for that matter gets their pre's and converters one step up? I better not to far off.

DonnyThompson Donny, don't throw out that Prime Time. I've got some doors that need propping open, a trailer that needs the tires chocked, some papers I don't want to blow away.

(of course now this will be like the MD409's all over again, now that someone has shown some interest, you'll fall in love with the PrimeTime all over again…. so I'm trying reverse psychology, when in truth we've got a Model 93, and love it.)

Kurt Foster, post: 425518, member: 7836 wrote: at the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://antelopestor…"]Antelope e-store[/]="http://antelopestor…"]Antelope e-store[/]

I'm still thinking a maxed out computer is going to be more than 2k ...

You are right, Kurt, they have gone up in price. I am looking for a new custom PC builder as we speak. It looks like I would want a PC that comes in around $3000 now. I know I could build one for less but I have no interest in building one.

Chris, post: 425551, member: 1 wrote: You are right, Kurt, they have gone up in price. I am looking for a new custom PC builder as we speak. It looks like I would want a PC that comes in around $3000 now. I know I could build one for less but I have no interest in building one.

and how long until the processor / ram / drives / os become obsolete? backward compatibility is a lost concept in computerland. just buy new sh*t every year or two. and if you can't afford it, die. keep in mind new computer usually means new audio interface .... look at all the firewire interfaces for sale ... you can't give one away. everything is thunderbolt now ....but even this shall pass.

Kurt Foster, post: 425552, member: 7836 wrote: and how long until the processor / ram / drives / os become obsolete?

I've got a 5 year old system I use for mastering, it will last another 5 years.

Kurt Foster, post: 425552, member: 7836 wrote: keep in mind new computer usually means new audio interface

AES EBU, firewire, MADI, USB, all those work great. I don't need to upgrade that. I simply want a DAW that will be for 100% ITB and once its seems solid, I would be happy to promote the company that supplies the product tested and true.

Kurt Foster, post: 425552, member: 7836 wrote: look at all the firewire interfaces for sale ... you can't give one away. everything is thunderbolt now ....but even this shall pass.

To be honest, which isn't serving me well on this but I have tried a lot of things over the years, including UAD now and most of this stuff is for people who think they need 40 eq's of all flavours. One DAW and few plugins is all I need. Once you have a good system, its really about having self control. Avoid being lead down the path that things are new and improved.

My thirst for a new DAW is really to host Sequoia and become more familiar with spectral editing and replacing my Dangerous Master matrix. Some of this mastering code is pretty cpu intensive. If all I was doing is recording, Reaper and an i7 would be plenty.

Too many plug-ins is why we are all messed up.

as you are speaking, saying you don't "need another computer", you say you are "thinking of a new computer".

i think that speaks more to what i was saying than refuting it. solid state memory, 384 and higher, dsd multitrack are all lurking in the shadows ..... it's going to be another 6 years until Moore's law predicts the doubling of processor power every year. it could go on even longer.

plugs are here to stay ... people are going to use them because 1. they look cool and 2. every body else does. obsolescence is a fact we deal with. this sh*t was supposed to cost less and "sound better". not drain your wallet and "sound real ok'.

Indeed Kurt. You and I are in the camp where we don't need all this added distraction. I'm pretty sure 1 EQ, 1 type of comp, 1 limiter, a reverb, delay is enough for me. When i am mixing my stuff, I may have a lot of tracks but almost all of them are flat or only slightly graphed. I really don't understand why people need so many plugins and all the DSP. Samplitude and Sequoia are like a great console to me. Its all I need. As long as you don't pollute it, it works great.

But back to the need of another computer:
I am interested in finding a new company we can promote here.
The second part to that is based around learning more about spectral engineering and studying how to remove bad rooms in the mix. I want a DAW for forensic type audio and personal research in spectral editing. But my 5 year old PC is rocking right now. And my 6 year old DAW is getting all the mastering I need done. Its an older AMD on Windows 7. It sings along.

imho. a well built , well optimized PC should run for years. I'm thinking longer and cheaper in the "long run" than any tape deck, that's for sure.

Kurt Foster, post: 425552, member: 7836 wrote: and how long until the processor / ram / drives / os become obsolete? backward compatibility is a lost concept in computerland. just buy new sh*t every year or two. and if you can't afford it, die. keep in mind new computer usually means new audio interface .... look at all the firewire interfaces for sale ... you can't give one away. everything is thunderbolt now ....but even this shall pass.

plus one!
I almost wonder if the daw companies should not start offering their own computers just to keep thing a bit more backward compatible?
I'm old i'am gray, but I want gear that will not force me to make a total upgrade on everything I have just because.

Kurt Foster, post: 425559, member: 7836 wrote: this sh*t was supposed to cost less and "sound better". not drain your wallet and "sound real ok'.

I don't ever recall being led to believe that "going digital" was going to cost less than analog...at least not to do it right. But if you do the math, it actually does cost less - for what you get and what you can achieve.

Consider where we were in 1978 or so... a decent 8 track 1/2" deck, passable console, wiring, bays, good mics, racks of processing, even for a home studio we could spend $10 grand easy and still be pretty limited in what we could do.
And that's 10 grand in 1978 money.

Now, we can have unlimited tracks, all the processing that one of our old racks had - and then some - and without having to constantly fix cables and bays, maintain gear that could break down, or be noisy, and which had a finite bandwidth... all for around $3000 or so, tops.

I like analog too, and like the rest of you, I came up in the age where that was all we had - so we learned on it and did the best we could with what we had. But my production potential far outshines what I used to be able to do with analog, and the limitations it held. I have no desire to return to a large format console, racks of OB gear, and all the cables and bays it took to integrate it all.

Chris, post: 425560, member: 1 wrote: I really don't understand why people need so many plugins and all the DSP. Samplitude and [[url=http://[/URL]="http://pro.magix.co…"]Sequoia[/]="http://pro.magix.co…"]Sequoia[/] are like a great console to me. Its all I need. As long as you don't pollute it, it works great.

LOL... well, you know why. ;)
Because not everyone mixes the same way. Styles differ, as do production methods. Certainly a great preamp, mic, EQ and GR set are paramount to any good recording workflow. But there are those of us who really do like certain FX beyond what our DAW platforms offer. I love Samp, it's a fantastic DAW platform, editing is the best - bar none, and it's EQ is as good as it gets.... but I'm not - and never have been - crazy about their stock verbs or delays. My favorite reverb of all time is the Bricasti. But, I can't afford one, and, as of this writing, they haven't made a software version yet, so my next go-to is T-Racks Lexicon PCM Reverb. It has the lush, smooth sound that I like when I choose to use a verb. I'm still using Samp's delays, and I think they're okay, but I'm looking for an alternative.

I also like using a few different third party compressors for textures. I love the way the 1176 I'm using sounds on kick and snare. But, that's just me, and directly related to the way I mix and produce. It's not the right way for everyone, it's just the way that works best for me.

It's an individual thing. No two people really mix alike. That doesn't make one better or worse than the other, just different. I think it'd be a pretty boring world if we all mixed and produced the same way. ;)

IMHO of course.

d.

3000.00 Would not get me close. And I still have a largish patch bay and crap loads of cabling.
I'am not a total in the box guy. I would rather spend more money and have a computer and AD/DA system that would work for years with little maintenance. I can still get a tech to work on my tape machine and or console, most outboard gear.
I do like and prefer the computer particularly in regard to editing and i'am not totally anti computer. I do not like the constant built in obsolescence.
I am setting with a computer now that if I had my way I would not change, but it is on list last leg I plan to get the most out of it but the change to a new computer is going to be very costly. It will mean a major overhaul. I am not looking forward to it at all.

DonnyThompson, post: 425574, member: 46114 wrote: Now, we can have unlimited tracks, all the processing that one of our old racks had - and then some - and without having to constantly fix cables and bays, maintain gear that could break down, or be noisy, and which had a finite bandwidth... all for around $3000 or so, tops.

pan60, post: 425598, member: 40762 wrote: 3000.00 Would not get me close.

i was just looking at [="http://pcaudiolabs.com/"]computers[/]="http://pcaudiolabs…"]computers[/] .... $1600 for a basic [[url=http://="http://pcaudiolabs…"]audio ready laptop[/]="http://pcaudiolabs…"]audio ready laptop[/]. $3800 for a full blown options. DAW software / plugs not included

The refurbed macs I have been looking at have been between 4000.00 and above 5000.00.
I have never owned a PC and don't know anything about one.
my wife has mac and pc both in her office but hates the pc. i looked at hers and could not make head not tails of it so i am thinking i will just stay with the mac. and i am not happy with the mac service, so a pc is still on the radar. but even so a computer and a daw with just the basics i can see it for even close to 3000.00 even with a pc?
personally I have 36 channel in and out, I could probably get by with 24, but 8 would not even get close to working for me.

Also if we are chatting about Radar then we would need to be looking at computer that would fall in that same category as the Radar system. So comp, and AD/DA as well or am I missing something?

that is comparable to the RADAR's Windoze system. nice laptops! and wouldn't you consider Antelope converters to be in the same league as the Radar basic?

the Thunderbolt laptops start around $2500. add 32 channels of the ORION and your choice of DAW ... another $3G's. PC Audio will load and configure the OS, plugs & DAW ... pretty close to turn key but at a price. BUT still way less than the RADAR.

But that still add's up to far more that 3000.00.

a thousand here, a thousand there. pretty soon you're talking about some serious money. :LOL:

Kurt Foster, post: 425600, member: 7836 wrote: i was just looking at [="http://pcaudiolabs.com/"]computers[/]="http://pcaudiolabs…"]computers[/] .... $1600 for a basic [[url=http://="http://pcaudiolabs…"]audio ready laptop[/]="http://pcaudiolabs…"]audio ready laptop[/]. $3800 for a full blown options. DAW software / plugs not included

I have a similar laptop of theirs, it works excellent. Its never crashed once and I run Sequoia 13 on it. The only thing I don't like about it is the mouse pad so I use a usb one most of the time with it.

I dunno Kurt.

I've got an HP with a 3.5ghz quad core cpu, 2 TB HDD, 16 gig RAM, 27" flat screen monitor, and it runs 45 tracks of audio, VSTi's and all kinds of plugs - per track if I want - with no sweat...

$699 for the PC, $189 for the flat screen.
Software and hardware, probably another $1500-$2000.

I've spent money in add ons along the way - like plugs - maybe around $1000 or so... but that's nowhere near what I paid to fill my rack back in the day, though..the real hardware was a whole lot more expensive, and I have so much more audio processing now... I don't use all of it all of the time, but if I was going to put togeter a real OB rack with eveything I have in plug in form now, I'd be looking at probably $15,000.... and I think that's probably conservative.

Those custom built turn-key DAW computers are sweet, to be sure, but you don't have to have one that loaded, unless you see yourself getting into a lot of ultra-dense production - 45 tracks and over, 16 different VSTi's running at once, 4 processors per track at once, etc., then yeah, you're gonna need some serious ammo. But do you really see yourself doing that? Do you think you need to be loaded for a bear that big?

Not being a smart ass here.... I'm sincere in my questions.

i suppose i don't have a grip on how much of a computer i need but history tells me to max out.
i would like to be able to record 8 tracks live and mix 32. i have never used more than 32 tracks.
i'm looking new and used at i7 quads with either 7200 or 10,000 rmp or solid state drives, 8 gig ram, nvida graphics, f/w or thuder bolt as well as usb intefacing ... and i'm looking at laptops. i will never buy another desktop.

I agree with Donny all the way here. The only people needing some beast of a computer are the ones excessively using plug-ins. From the sounds of it, I use half the amount Donny uses and if he's doing okay on that box, I don't understand why you can't because I'm certain you aren't buying into the UAD/ third party supermarket?

has to be a laptop that is not limited so if i want to run UAD or something else, i can.

i want to record / monitor 8 tracks live @96 without latency and mix with plugs. i think the computers i have speced out can do that.

i saw a used ASUS laptop on C/L today that has thunderbolt for $750.

IMHO
Forget a laptop for production and low latency
My laptop is excellent but nothing like my desktop with pcie interfacing
Not even close.

it's got to be portable and small.

I called a friend that sells audio designed computers and he could not get me want I wanted for anything close to 3000.00. And even if he could that still does not cover the DAW or converters.
The Radar can be upgraded a long ways, and I am not jumping for the radar like I say, but can you take the laptop as far as you can that Radar? Plus look at the warranty and service the Radar offers.
The Radar AD/DA converters that I have heard are as good as they get. I have not of course heard everything out their but they are nice.
I cant bring myself to get a laptop.
Tower here.

pan60, post: 425616, member: 40762 wrote: warranty and service the Radar offers

imo, who cares about the bloated warranty they offer. Its a waste of money period.

My laptop will track 24 channels of Studiolive for 2 hours straight. But they can get hot and heat is not a good thing over time.

My laptop runs USB converters great. I also used it for FF800 with FW. 8 channels on a Laptop is pretty easy, but latency is subjective. It depends on how clean tou keep it, the DAW you use and the third party "junk" you pollute it with.

Laptops are great for mobile but they are horrible to mix on. But my eyes aren't that great either. My PCAudioLabs Laptop has an HDMI bus so I hook it to a big TV and it works excellent, but, it also has an impact on how ell it responds once the big screen is going. Laptops don't have the same ability to do a lot of things as well. So, keep that in mind.

Some info on Windows 10/ and those paying attention to those who see it coming.

It appears Windows 10 is going to be why Radar and anyone for that matter is heading back to Windows. It appears this OS will be able to strip down for just what we need it for and no more. I see why Samplitude bailed on Apple because Windows can be streamlined JUST FOR SAMPLITUDE. Lets hope its true.

With 10 we finally get to the point where developers can truly build an app, and maximize where their customers can use it.

To be sure, we know desktop DAWs and plugins are still the bread and butter of the industry. We have that firmly in mind as we're doing development. We can do OS-level stuff like MIDI, and audio driver optimization, but things like ASIO and VST standards/implementations are largely out of our control (although we do talk to companies like Steinberg to make them aware of our plans and to get their feedback).