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anonymous 16 April 2004

Hi there, I hope someone to tell me why Yamaha ns-10m is placed in every major studio around the world, is it the great choice for nearfield monitoring , I have a pair Genelec 1030 with tannoy Sub 10 a I think the sound is great,but musicans looking for Yamaha ns -10,,,,Whyyyyyyyyy ?

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anonymous Fri, 04/16/2004 - 16:58

translation. Once you learn their ways, they translate to all speaker types from esoteric to a clock radio. They expose weaknesses in a micdown.

those who hate them and say they sound ugly...well, you have to make your mix sound GREAT on them..and it can be done. Once you do that, it will sound great on most systems.

They have linear dynamics.

Sometimes the best sounding speakers are the worst ones to use while mixing. I personally can do well on a set of auratones also.

cruisemates Fri, 04/16/2004 - 17:52

TeeMe...

I could always use Auratones to check my mix for balance, but I never wanted to start or do a whole mix on them. Didn't sound right. I did almost all of my mixing on UREI time aligns or Big Reds. JBL 4311s used to be the standard "small" studio monitor, but they were TERRIBLE to mix on - the low and high end were way exagerated.

Personally, I have never met the perfect monitor system. Any system requires that you work with it, get to know it, and learn how to mix on it to make competitive mixes that sound good anywhere.

RecorderMan Fri, 04/16/2004 - 22:43

TeeME wrote: I personally can do well on a set of auratones also.

ditto.
you know wht these are great? one speaker. no cross over to mess with the midrange. Especially effective at vocal rides with just one in mono. Also...place on thr floor behind the desk gives you that forest from the trees big picture that listening from another room can do...in real time with your hands on the faders (or mouse). Give me a pair of auratones and ns10's with the YST-160 sub and Igot everthing i need.

Thomas W. Bethel Sat, 04/17/2004 - 03:56

TheMusicMaker wrote: Thanx guys , ........ I checked today my local Yamaha dealer but thay said NS 10 is for ever unsupported :?

Someone to know a place anywhere in the world with a pair for sale :roll:

They come up on Ebay every once in a while but like anything used you have to be careful that they are still in good condition as Yamaha does not have some of the components any more to repair them. Maybe you really don't want a pair. They were the "hot" speaker for decades but not so much any more. The main reason they were everywhere is that it was one reference that everyone had so you could take your mixes from studio a to studio b and still see how they sounded. The Mackie HR 824s seem to be the new "standard" and not only do the sound a whole lot better mixes done on them seem to translate well on other systems.

The other idea is to make your speakers portable so you can take them with you if you leave your studio and go somewhere else for a mixdown. I have a pair of Genele 1030s that I have in a custom case that I can take along to a mixdown or to a live recording session and have a monitor that I am familiar with.

Hope this helps.

-TOM-

RecorderMan Sat, 04/17/2004 - 12:13

Thomas W. Bethel wrote: [quote=TheMusicMaker]Thanx guys , ........ I checked today my local Yamaha dealer but thay said NS 10 is for ever unsupported :?

Someone to know a place anywhere in the world with a pair for sale :roll:

They come up on Ebay every once in a while but like anything used you have to be careful that they are still in good condition as Yamaha does not have some of the components any more to repair them. Maybe you really don't want a pair. They were the "hot" speaker for decades but not so much any more. The main reason they were everywhere is that it was one reference that everyone had so you could take your mixes from studio a to studio b and still see how they sounded. The Mackie HR 824s seem to be the new "standard" and not only do the sound a whole lot better mixes done on them seem to translate well on other systems.

The other idea is to make your speakers portable so you can take them with you if you leave your studio and go somewhere else for a mixdown. I have a pair of Genele 1030s that I have in a custom case that I can take along to a mixdown or to a live recording session and have a monitor that I am familiar with.

Hope this helps.

-TOM-
I agree with thomas on not getting NS10's for the reason's he stated. But I disagree on the Mackie's...I personally think they are not a very good monitor and I've never seen tham anywhere other than in theroom of a novice. For the money I'd very highly recommend the Yamaha MSP5's; they're not expensive and they're self powered. If you can afford a little more get the MSP10's. Genelec's are allright, but too expensive and the Yamaha's are just fine.

stalefish Sat, 04/17/2004 - 14:20

Re: Why Yamaha ns-10m is placed in every major studio aroun

TheMusicMaker wrote: Hi there , I hope someone to tell me why Yamaha ns-10m is placed in every major studio around the world , is it the great choice for nearfield monitoring , I have a pair Genelec 1030 with tannoy Sub 10 a I think the sound is great ,but musicans looking for Yamaha ns -10 ,,,,Whyyyyyyyyy ????? :cry:

get your friends to listen to Quested monitors for a change of opinion :D

anonymous Sat, 04/17/2004 - 18:57

Even though I've read some poor reviews on them, the KRK V8's work well for me. I got a pair a couple of months ago for my home setup. I've been able to mix intuitively and have had good results with translation. I never monitor loudly, maybe that's the key. I, too, am puzzled by the NS 10's popularity. In the past I've used them infrequently and in conjunction with other speakers. Now, I'm working out of a studio featuring the NS10s and the sub. It's giving me hell! Can't find the damn sweet spot anymore! Might have to star taking my V8's to the studio.

jonyoung Sat, 04/17/2004 - 19:36

I've gotta agree with Thomas and disagree with Recorder Man re: the Mackies (yeah, I know a lot of folks here hate Mackie). I've been using the 824's for the past year and have never had mixes translate so well. I had NS-10's and appreciate that when you get a good mix on them, they sound great everywhere, but I get the same results with less effort on the Mackies. I started engineering in the late '70's.....if I'm a novice, when do I become a pro?

Thomas W. Bethel Sun, 04/18/2004 - 08:52

blackbox wrote: Even though I've read some poor reviews on them, the KRK V8's work well for me. I got a pair a couple of months ago for my home setup. I've been able to mix intuitively and have had good results with translation. I never monitor loudly, maybe that's the key. I, too, am puzzled by the NS 10's popularity. In the past I've used them infrequently and in conjunction with other speakers. Now, I'm working out of a studio featuring the NS10s and the sub. It's giving me hell! Can't find the damn sweet spot anymore! Might have to star taking my V8's to the studio.

I had a client bring his pair of V8 KRKs to my mastering studio so he could listen to the mastering on them when we were done. They were his "normal" pair for monitoring. We listened to them and made the decision that there was something terribly wrong with them. They did not sound correct. I was using them with my Benchmark DAC-1 with balanced outs. I tried them again with the unbalanced outs of the Benchmark and they sounded better. I hooked up my trusty Neutrik test set to them and tried a frequency sweep from 20 to 20kHz. They did not sound even on the balanced inputs and sounded better on the unbalanced inputs. We finally decided that their was something wrong with the speakers and my client sent them back to KRK after first calling and getting an RMA. After waiting about 6 weeks he called them and asked when they would be back and was told that he would have to wait a while longer. The finally came back to him 3 months later. When he got them back he hooked them up and they sounded worse than when he sent them. He called KRK and the they were very nice and told him that his woofers had a different cone material than is now shipping with the speakers and they would be happy to replace them for cost if he wanted to ship them back again. They also said that they could find nothing wrong with the speakers but they replaced some parts anyway.

Long story but at the end he decided to trade in the KRK V8s on some Mackie 824s and has been a happy person ever since. His mixes translate well on my ALON IVs and when I do a mastering for him my mastering translates well into his Mackies and into his car stereo and other systems he has played them on. Moral of the story....be careful of which speakers you buy as they are a long term investment and you don't want to get burned.

Just for informational sake why do people here think so badly of Mackie's ? Thanks....

-TOM-

Thomas W. Bethel Sun, 04/18/2004 - 09:01

TheMusicMaker wrote: .....I'm right with U Tom , I use Genelec 1030 with Sub and feel very comfortable ,but musicians comes into my studio each time lookin for Ns 10 . I allways do the stuff seems to be a perfect for the artists and maybe I'll check E-bay careful .Thanx a lot !

There is a pro studio near here that does mostly commerical productions. They use the Genelec 1030s in all their studios and for surround with the subs. They sound GREAT!

When I retire I am going to build myself a surround system for home with three more 1030s and a sub. Boy will that sound GREAT!

Some people do not like 1030's (speakers are very personal preference) but I really like them for remote work and can't wait to get my system in surround. It is a couple of years off so maybe by then they will be obsolete and we will be listening to plasma speakers while we watch TV on our Plasma screens.

Hard to see into the furture easy to learn from the past - my dad's favorite quote.

-TOM-

KurtFoster Tue, 04/20/2004 - 12:07

I will weigh in on RMs side on the Mackie issue .... a horrible monitor... anything with ports or passive radiators on the rear of the enclosure is unuseable IMO ... especially if they are used in small CR's close to any boundery. The 824's are flabby and exagerated in the low end..

The NS10 is a known quanity and this is one reason so many clients will demand them. Try to find a decent pair used and only switch to them for quick references jusst to satisy your customers... they are an old design and it is time to move on..

As for the MSP5's, I liked them quite a lot. I think these would be a great all in one reference. I recently evaluated the MSP10 Studios and I did not care as much for them as the the MSP5's.. They were very "wooly" sounding and didn't image as well as the MSP5's..

RecorderMan Wed, 04/21/2004 - 10:50

Cedar Flat Fats wrote: I recently evaluated the MSP10 Studios and I did not care as much for them as the the MSP5's.. They were very "wooly" sounding and didn't image as well as the MSP5's..

Thanks for this Kurt,

I haven't heard the 10's myself, but have used the 5's now quite a bit. That being the case, were I to buy some new monitors myself, I would get the MSP5's first, and then get the sub for them. Eventually I'd get 3 more MSP5's. Five of them with the sub would be the best/cheapest 5.1 monitoring situation that i'd be comfortable with.

To each his/her own of course.

anonymous Wed, 04/21/2004 - 19:48

I agree with Kurt on the Nsp 10's "wooley bass" They are essentually using the same woofer as the mackies which cost 27.50!!!!

If you can make the Mackies translate for you...GREAT! ...you found your monitors, otherwise, this is what a great monitor needs to have in order to make my list:

Freedom from distortion.
Linear dynamics.
Parts availability
Overload protection in the design.
Can be moved.
Flat powerband.

At this time, the best monitors I have come across are the SP tech timepiece 2.0's They will set you back 3K and need another bag of money for a robust power amplifier.(750/side is nice) These are worth taking out a loan for and their is a 9 week wait as we speak.

If you want the best, this is it, otherwise, take a compromise and get something that you can ultimatly be comfortable with. Your clients can be persuaded if your mixes come out stellar. Whatever you get that works for you...every time, is the key.

I still use 3 different loudspeaker systems for mixing as I really like to "know the translation first hand" and I have many systems for mastering evaluation, although, the SP techs can do it all and have many times.

http://www.4sptech.com
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewforum.php?f=65
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1003/sptechnology.htm
http://www.4sptech.com/HTML/1024X768/left_menu/theory/theory.php
http://
http://www.4sptech.com/reviews/bartlett.pdf

KurtFoster Thu, 04/22/2004 - 12:52

RecorderMan wrote: [quote=Cedar Flat Fats] I recently evaluated the MSP10 Studios and I did not care as much for them as the the MSP5's.. They were very "wooly" sounding and didn't image as well as the MSP5's..

Thanks for this Kurt,

I haven't heard the 10's myself, but have used the 5's now quite a bit. That being the case, were I to buy some new monitors myself, I would get the MSP5's first, and then get the sub for them. Eventually I'd get 3 more MSP5's. Five of them with the sub would be the best/cheapest 5.1 monitoring situation that i'd be comfortable with.

To each his/her own of course.

RM
That was my impression when I heard the MSP5's ... that they would work very well as a 5.1 system with a sub woofer.. but actually I was very impressed with the low end ability of these little speakers. Switching between them and my Tannoy System III DMT 12's the sound was almost identical. They also had an amazing ability to image very well with many sounds appearing to be placed well outside of where the monitors were placed.. always a good indication of superior imaging. I think these little speakers will be giving the Genelec / Dynaudio crowd a run for their money .

anonymous Thu, 04/22/2004 - 22:20

Yamaha NS-10's are very honest speakers, I've owned a few pairs and still have a set in action. The reason I think a lot of people dislike them so much is that when you are used to monitoring through any speaker other than NS-10's you are immediately shocked by the crass mid and highs you get hit with. Simply put there rude speakers, and reveal everything about a mix sans subtlety. However I wouldn't mix entirely without them.
One thing I've noticed about these monitors over the years is that you get ear fatigue from them very quickly, so they should be your secondary speeks..

anonymous Fri, 04/23/2004 - 12:53

I bought a pair of Yamaha MSP5's yesterday.

Very nice.

I can already see that ther translate much better than my HR824's, which sound good in their own right, but leave me constantly second-guessing my mix desicions due to translation problems.

The MSP5's seem very accurate in terms of how individual elements contrast in the mix. This is where I'm now seeing a lot of problems to be solved with my mixes that weren't nearly as apparent on my Mackies.

Gotta live with these for a while.

Thanks Kurt and Recorderman for suggesting these MSP5's. :)

Dean

anonymous Sat, 04/24/2004 - 03:02

flipmedia wrote: Yamaha NS-10's are very honest speakers, I've owned a few pairs and still have a set in action. The reason I think a lot of people dislike them so much is that when you are used to monitoring through any speaker other than NS-10's you are immediately shocked by the crass mid and highs you get hit with. Simply put there rude speakers, and reveal everything about a mix sans subtlety. However I wouldn't mix entirely without them.
One thing I've noticed about these monitors over the years is that you get ear fatigue from them very quickly, so they should be your secondary speeks..

NS10's have a +7db peak at 1.5khz and nothing below 80 hz.
That's not what I would call 'honest'.

And I agree with you about the fatigue.

anonymous Sat, 04/24/2004 - 03:31

Its all relative

Defining honesty in a speaker is at best a nebulus activity. Given a perfect scenario I doubt anyone could provide proof of a room or listener who could percieve and make use of a perfectly flat speaker. Especially given the fact that in the end the product is auditioned through a variety of coloured speakers. Its important for obvious reasons why we need a well balanced room and speakers to mix with, but personally I would much rather make a mix sound great through speakers that don't, than to make a great mix on speakers that sound great until I put the CD in my car. It's all about taste really, but one things for sure NS-10's aren't in the majority of studios around the world because they look cool..

KurtFoster Sat, 04/24/2004 - 12:48

sign wrote:

NS10's have a +7db peak at 1.5khz and nothing below 80 hz.
That's not what I would call 'honest'.

And I agree with you about the fatigue.

With all due respect, please substantiate your comment. What do you base it on? Is this something you have actually measured or something that you only heard and are now repeating? I can put up a 50 Hz tone and hear it through my NS10's. How can this be if there is, as you say, "nothing below 80 hz." ? Regarding fatigue, if a mix is well done I can listen to my NS10s all day long ... It's bad mixes that are fatiguing .... NS10's simply have a way of showing us the ugly truth. That's why they have been a studio standard for 20 years. IMO, unless you are willing to discount the opinions of seasoned pros who have made real records for the past 3 or 4 decades, NS10's deserve some serious consideration.

Kurt Foster

anonymous Sat, 04/24/2004 - 16:13

Kurt, there has been a website about the NS10 which has disappeared lately.

In this website there were measurements and drawings about how to tweak the filters in order to make the NS10 sound better.

I'm sure there are a number of forumites who know what website I'm talking about.

I should have said "there's not much below 80 hz", sorry for that.
You either love or hate NS10's, I still have a pair on my meterbridge, but use them good as never since I have a pair of IMF Compact monitors that sound like a NS10 should sound.

I can listen to these monitors for 10 or even 12 hours and still hear much detail. And any classic and great sounding album sounds a lot better on these monitors than on NS10's.

NS10's sure do translate, but you simply can't use them as your only monitors. I know them like the inside of my pockets.

Munxcub Sat, 04/24/2004 - 16:52

I don't suppose anyone has listened to a pair of Yorkville YSM1p's have you? These are what I'm looking at buying. I have heard them and they sound really good IMO. Not "really good" like the mackie HR824's sound, but nice and clean and flat sounding, no exagerated bottom and things like that... and at $700 CAD for the pair...

http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?id=118&cat=20&type=33

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