Originally posted by E.L:
The original poster asked "I'd like to know if exist an album fully mixed in Logic Audio or Pro Tools".

I shared information.

So? That has nothing to do with my response to something in this thread. Conversations meander. Do they not meander where you come from? I responded directly to your question posed to me.

Mixerman, again no ofense, but why do you visit this forum If you know so much and doesn't like recomendations ?

None taken. I visit this forum to help people. Unfortunately, I can only help those who wish to be helped. It seems you are not one of them.

Do you wanna know my opinion ? Ok you don't, but anyway: PRO TOOLS ROCKS !!!!!

See above.

BTW...is there an engineer or anyone who works with music that have 100% health ears ? If so, tell me their secret.

Well, I know that most people must be going deaf, because I can't even listen to most CD's today for their brightness, movie theaters are usually way too loud for me, and most people listen to the TV way too loud. If you want to go on believing that I can't hear, and that's why I have the opinions I have, enjoy.

Mixerman

Looking at these last six posts really got me laughing! Come on folks, I'm into digital stuff and I think it sounds great when you know what your after. However, analog done right sounds AWESOME. This should not be an argument.
I believe digital is just now stepping into the spotlight of pro audio recognition (on a studio level). Analog technology has been there for a while.
I saw a special on Aerosmith the other day and the guys in the band were all excited about the possibilities in recording into a computer. They said it was a great way to go cause they could bring their ideas AND finished parts back an forth for production on future records... So why not, I think they know what “sounds” good for what they want to hear on their recordings. But one thing is for sure I don't think they’ll be throwing away those analog consoles or processors any time soon! :cool:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tony C:
"Looking at these last six posts really got me laughing!"

You're telling me...actually Tony C. you and Alpha Jerk pretty much always give me and my friends a real good laugh with your ignorant, third party, Cesna-Pilot-Dreaming I'm flying the Shuttle Opinoins. You guy's are amatuers.

"I saw a special on Arrowsmith the other day "

Like I said....that's as close as you'll Ever get to that level...and all you'll ever know about that areana is what some reporter gives you...out of context.

Keep us laughing.....

Looking at your post has me laughing even more! Recorderman? Maybe I should change my name to DAWman. It's good to laugh. But it's really stupid to point a finger and call somone an amature when you don't have a clue about who you're talking too.

"and all you'll ever know about that areana is what some reporter gives you...out of context."

If it was out of context than you'd better tell that to Steve T. cause he was doin the talkin... Try to think before you open your mouth it's always the sign of a true pro. :D

The options which Audio Workstations give to musicians and producers are obvious to any who have used one. Fortunately they are now reaching acceptable levels as far as sound quality, and at incredibly low cost considering what they can do. Sure, not all styles of music need it but having a closed mind to what most people consider exciting technology is not a great idea as far as I can tell. I'm pretty certain that if Jimi Hendrix or Paul McCartney had a DAW in the sixties they would have been very happy to say the least. I'm sure there were guys standing around telling Les Paul his multitrack tape recorder didn't sound as good as mono, or that overdubbing was cheating or some such nonsense. Ahh, why bother!

recorderman, who the frick are you?
You ever hear Tony C's or Alphajerk's stuff?
I bet they sound a lot better than some loudmouth who'stheguy!

Dont quote me a bunch of credits.

Anyone who " pilots the space shuttle" knows how easy it is to build a big credit list, deserved or not .

Originally posted by JasonCrouch:

As far as summing goes - its the case with any "mixer" - I decided to go with Nuendo for various reason, one being that it sounds great, as nice as Paris (yet I never did get the Paris hype), and definatly nicer than ProTools. Its an easy to use system, and its interfaces have A/Ds that you may just find sound exactly the same as the overpriced purple ones (cause they are the same chips). Plus the also give you DB-25s for you I/O, along with TDIF and Lightpipe.

The Paris hype as I see it is fantastic sound quality of the mixer and A/D-D/As, no monitor/tracking latency, beaucoup tracks from IDE drives, automation with external control surface (ethernet, not MIDI), dedicated DSP and external patching options, all with no CPU hit. Then add native plugins (VST/DX - including the new DSP cards).

Nuendo is a great software only app, but is far more CPU dependant for the same results than Paris or PT, and probably can't handle 80 tracks with effects, external busing, automation, plugins, etc, unless you get into dual 1GHz machines - haven't heard the results there yet, but I don't expect 80 tracks. You also have to use a MIDI control surface, which will have response latencies. A

Apples and oranges. No slight on Nuendo intended - just a different approach - don't expect the same performance as hybrid DAWs on a similar PC. Nuendo has been well reviewed for sound quality, depending on what I/O cards you use with it (Steinberg's aren't the only options). If you are going the mobile route have you looked at the RME PCMCIA card? - a notebook would be a cool way to track as long as you aren't shooting for a huge number of live tracks to disk over the interface. Metric Halo has one also I believe - I don't know if these are supported by Nuendo, but worth investigating.

I was going to close the thread, but seeing Dedric's post I had a change of heart.

Let's at least pretend to still be on topic, ok?

Note from the moderator:

I put that last post up to remind everybody to post ON TOPIC. If you don't have anything to add to the topic, don't waste everybody's time.

There will be no "last-wording" going on here. Any further attempts to "last-word" will be summarily deleted. Understood? Take the pissing matches to the Bar&Grille if you want. It isn't helping anybody here.

Thank you,

Ang1970

Originally posted by Tony C:
Looking at your post has me laughing even more! Recorderman? Maybe I should change my name to DAWman. It's good to laugh.

I don't know...I kind of like the name Recorderman. It's got...flair. Pinache. Je ne sai pas. And if I were you, I'd go with the DAWman. What a great name! Digitalman (a friend of mine) would be proud of your choice.

But it's really stupid to point a finger and call somone an amature when you don't have a clue about who you're talking too.

Ahhh...but you haven't a clue who YOU are talking to...

"and all you'll ever know about that areana is what some reporter gives you...out of context."

If it was out of context than you'd better tell that to Steve T. cause he was doin the talkin... Try to think before you open your mouth it's always the sign of a true pro. :D

Recorderman doen't need to tell Steve T., Recorderman was there, at the sessions (I won't divulge in what capacity for that would give away the mystery). If he says the comments are out of context, it wouldn't be unreasonable to accept his offering of a grain of salt.

I'm gald to see that Recorderman has come to join us here. Just to set the record straight, he's an amazing recordist. In fact, I just finished mixing an album that he recorded, and the tracks sounded great (sadly, a rarity these days).

OK...so he can put things in an assholish way. But really...can't we all? And should we discount his concepts, for not liking his tone. Let us try to understand what Recorderman is saying, digest it, believe it. For within his brash statements, we might one day find the truth.

Thank you Recorderman!

Mixerman

P.S. LOL, no he's not me...but I DID give him his name.

MixerMan,
Cool! I guess you mean RecorderMan was there when they taped the showing for MTV? Yes?.... No?
Maybe he can be so kind as to explain to us what Steve T, and the whole band for that matter, were talking about when they said they WERE recording and WOULD BE recording tracks to the computer for FUTURE releases?
To get THAT kind of info would be of great relevance to this thread for sure.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tony C:
MixerMan,
Cool! I guess you mean RecorderMan was there when they taped the showing for MTV? Yes?.... No?

Tony C. ... Iast time I saw Steven Tyler was during the making of their current release, at the Village Recorder- I was producing something else in another room there, that day. I've worked on several records with Both of the Producers of that record and I've worked with Steven before ( as an engineer and a musician) they're friends of mine. Marty Fredrickson ( one of the producers) happens to have a Pro Tools Rig (as do I), and as is the CURRENT TREND AND because they haven't gone down that road before...they did a "pro tools" record.
Digital is a tool, it is very useful at times. It DOES NOT sound as good for Rock 'n Roll as Analog yet- at least on drums.
Ours ( engineers) is not to reason why at times. We work in situations not always up to our choice. Hell, I've been doing more work in Pro Tools the last two-three years than analog. But I'll do less in the future, now that i'm begging to be able to call those shots.
Just because you buy a rig doesn't mean you can do the gig.

HEY MIXERMAN....F'n GREAT MIXES THE OTHER NIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

RecorderMan,
Interesting that you should mention that drums and digital don’t quite do it yet.
I got my hands on a 60’s Roger’s dynasonic a few years back and having never used one found it to be a bitch in getting it to sound like anything I wanted. I thought why not just use a good Ludwig or DW wood snare, but being the hard head that I am I never gave up working on it.Took a while to solve it but once I did, it opened up a whole bunch of possibilities for getting great snare tracks, it’s kind a like having three drums in one.
I view the whole DAW thing the same way, there’s definitely/obviously some things about it that I feel I have to solve. Maybe it’s a hang up but I've always worked this way. The down side is it ALWAYS take longer, the up side is that once I solve it I can then proceed with a serious amount of knowledge in how I use these tools to get GREAT results.
Yes, it’s almost easy to get a set popin with a good ol 2" wide track and yes (for rock) it’s most likely the best way to go, I’ve done it for years, how can you not love the sound of tape saturation on drums?
But I got to tell ya, I’m having a hell of a time with my Cesna, I just put a couple of rocket boosters on the back, who knows maybe it will fly up to where you guys hang out one of these days.... AND then we’ll all be laughing........ ;)

It is not about some undiscovered technique that we haven't discovered yet, Tony C. I've recordding with Digital since the JVC day's ( just before the 3324 came out). The digital I've used( 3324/3348, adat, da88, Pro Tools, 16 to 24 bit) just doesn't have something yet that I can get with analog. It is very subtle...I doubt you can hear it. Most of my clients can't (* or It doesn't matter with them). My sounds are in that way serious land of as good as ANYBODY who has ever done this( as far as recording goes). I dpon't always get it write for me- but I'm REAL picky. I don't say this in arrogance...yet i'm not going to just give you the point because you have an opion. It's not just me either, but just about every really, real;ly good enginer I know STILL prefers Analog to digital on drums- I've worked with a very good portion of the best out there today.

I'n some later posts I'll begin to distill some of my ideas as to how to get AMAZING sounds. My only hesitation is that i don't really think you can teacgh this stuff online. There are to many variables to get the truelly big picture....that's why we spend years paying our dues and learning what to do ANd what Not to do from thr BEST. I satnd by my cesna to shuttle analogy....but taht wasn't meant to denegrate people who are still learning this stuff...just you guys out there that use up alot of space on these forums to spew personal opion's and opions you've read from someone else, or worse than that opions that hvaen't stood the test of peer review in the real world of makingworld class albums, with world class artists as your judge. Those are FACTS.

just doesn't have something yet that I can get with analog. It is very subtle...I doubt you can hear it.

----------------------------

Not taking sides here... but this just doesn't make any sense man... If your saying that you are the only one who can hear it, then what's the point???

Originally posted by RecorderMan:
[B
...just you guys out there that use up alot of space on these forums to spew personal opion's and opions you've read from someone else, or worse than that opions that hvaen't stood the test of peer review in the real world of makingworld class albums, with world class artists as your judge. Those are FACTS.

RecorderMan,
Are you implying me here?

RecorderMan,

I'd love any advise, ideas, direction, or a starting point for my drum recordings. It's the one thing goin in to my ProTools system I always labor over. (any others' opinions also always welcome)

I don't mind experimenting and am willing to try anything. (hate it when someone starts with "The right way is to....")

Especially interested in "...well when working in digital, I've liked to ...(fill in the blank)

...guess I should of started a new topic.

Recorderman.
Im very intrest in hear your work.
Please tell me where can I listen to the tracks you recorded and mix. Be specific.
Thx
:)

"Nuendo is a great software only app, but is far more CPU dependant for the same results than Paris or PT, and probably can't handle 80 tracks with effects, external busing, automation, plugins, etc, unless you get into dual 1GHz machines - haven't heard the results there yet, but I don't expect 80 tracks. You also have to use a MIDI control surface, which will have response latencies."

Just to set the record straight: Nuendo's Houston controller uses USB and 80 tracks are no problem with all of the above - Don't forget PT needs additional mix cards to do some of the really high end stuff, and these babies are way more expensive than a new MOBO and extra CPU.

A general observation on the way this slanging match is going: I can alway learn, and will always be looking to do just that. Discussions along the lines of "my dick is bigger than yours" makes me, for one, seriously doubt that some of the people here (no matter how big they think their dick and client list is) have nothing to teach. It's about creating art and moving people - the lack of humility displayed here makes me wonder how some of you manage to hold down a job at all, never mind help to make music.

Originally posted by Rog:
...the lack of humility displayed here makes me wonder how some of you manage to hold down a job at all, never mind help to make music.

I happen to know that Recorderman hasn't held down a job in over 10 years. Same goes for me.

So...I guess that makes you right?

Mixerman

If being a big-time engineer is going to make me a self-important asshole like Recorderman seems to be, I think I'd rather fly Cessnas and have real friends.

:roll:

Yeah, well, I understand the sentiment, but I just got to thinking about the whole thing.

I think I understand how guys like recorderman (new to me, welcome!) & mixerman can get high and mighty sounding- it can get frustrating to *know* something really well, and not have your ideas or opinions be accorded much respect.

On this kind of forum, some idiot with a 4 track is just as likely to be held up (momentarily) as an example of whatever's cool (lo fi, DIY, bucking trends, poke in the eye of the big bad record companies, etc.) as someone really knowledgeable is likely to be treated decently. This is a pain in the ass that gets in the way of learning. Fact is, if Mixerman comes in here and spits out "I like analog better for xxx because yyy," then while that's an opinion, it's also an opinion based on more listening, experience, seriousness and budget than 95% of the rest of us can cough up. Period. That doesn't make it unassailable or holy, and it doesn't make anyone else's opinion unworthy or stupid.

It's kind of like my extremely part time gig in the recording department of a music store- every once in a while, I just feel like saying, "look, you told me what you wanted to do, and you told me your budget. Screw the reviews, just buy this- because I really do know better than you right now." And flying Cessnas and having real friends is a worthy goal, but you can't even see the shuttles, let alone well enough to take potshots. :)

Originally posted by mark:
If being a big-time engineer is going to make me a self-important asshole like Recorderman seems to be, I think I'd rather fly Cessnas and have real friends.

:roll:

Well said, Jon Best. Well said.

Recorderman was a little out of line, IMO. But I certainly can understand his sentiments.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Mixerman