tubes
small watts .. 5 or 10 perhaps 18W
10' ... but I like 12 inch for more cone break up

and I think a separate is a better idea to a combo
less microphonics and more variety

Black Heart little giant was suggested on RO a few days ago and looked interesting
I only know what I have found on the net but does looks cool
around $200 and you should be able to find a speaker cheap ... even if you have to make your own box

anything based on Little Fender Champs would also be OK

there is a Little Epiphone amp out there and I think Peavey had a small tubed toy amp combo
these could be good second hand

You might find a [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.sweetwat…"]Peavey Classic 30 1x12"[/]="http://www.sweetwat…"]Peavey Classic 30 1x12"[/] used for that price. Not a great amp, but it's a decent value.

[youtube:504c1742b3]http://www.youtube…]

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Two things to consider, though:

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2.) some on the internet have mentioned it isn't loud enough to keep up with a full band, but I sort of doubt that notion.

I can assure you that these 5-watters are not designed to be onstage-with-a-live-drummer type of giggin' in the first place. They are meant for the bedroom and/or studio, and that's probably what Seth wants it for.
Do try to get a seperate head/cab rig, it will help save the tubes lifespan.
Also, be careful driving keys thru a lighter-duty guitar speaker, especially the low notes, as they will rip the cone out at louder, distorted levels. You might look at pushing keys thru a bass cab instead. I bought a small Bag End-style of bass cab complete with a real JBL D-140F for $100 in craigslist. It makes a great guitar cab because it isn't too bright. Just a thought...

moonbaby wrote: Do try to get a seperate head/cab rig, it will help save the tubes lifespan.

Have to ask...what is that statement based upon? :? Never heard of that. An amp is an amp is an amp, whether it's in a box with speakers, or a box without...isn't it? Tubes work no harder in either configuration?

I could grasp the statement that "It will save your back's lifespan", though. :wink:

Just wondering.

Kapt.Krunch

I believe it has more to do with vibration and residuals from sound waves, supposedly being more prominent in a combo configuration rather than a head/cab. Hard to say how much truth is in it really.

All things considered with other factors involved in using an amp (moving around, riding in cars/trucks. rolling across stage, volume, tube types, play time, etc.), I personally think it's negligible. When the amp starts to sound bad, change the tubes. It's not like it costs much money, unless you're using some huge Mesa head with 37 power tubes and 90 preamp tubes.

I'm thinking of this amp:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DA5

I played it yesterday as was quite surprised. (I've been playing guitar for about 14 years). This amp has some clever effects, but it has a neat feature in that you can change the output power from .5 watts to 5 watts. This amp is is comparable to a chihuahua in that its small and loud as F---.

I'm thinking about this one because I want something suitable for a small jam, practice and maybe miking.

This amp also has a headphone out and a mic in.

?
but that's not a tubed amp ?

great for busking as it is battery driven and has some effects
and the mic in
and the CD in

he said he wants " to get a good sound for recording "

as for the speaker
yes named brand speakers could go over budget
but
my favourite speaker for recording is a worn out and damaged cone ... with a stable spider and good voice coil
so no buzzes and pole problems

I use a variety of speakers and cabinets when recording

sit the head on top of the speaker cabinet and you can get some good microphonics
you have the choice

the peavey classic was the peavey unit I was thinking of
thank you patrick

Kev wrote: ?
but that's not a tubed amp ?

He never specified tube or solid state. I think any amp can be miked for recording. I stand behind my word as the VOX DA5 as a solid cheap amp. He could buy two amps and do stuff in stereo.

just saw this, its a little over budget but on topic.

http://zvexamps.com/amp_view.html

My statement regarding keeping the speaker away from the tubes comes from many years of dealing with tube amps. Yes, the constant vibration of a near-by speaker DOES affect the tubes negligbly. The internal components of a vacuum tube are much more delicate when they are heated up. The rattling they get from the speaker they are within inches of can be brutal to their life. I've personally had to deal with this issue too many times before, preamp tubes are especially more vulnerable to microphonic problems in that situation. The practice of hanging the tubes down right behind the speaker is an economical one, not a reliability consideration.

Sure...I'm not arguing the point, just saying (as did you) that it's negligible. You could also pose that argument to a head sitting on a cab with insufficient feet to isolate it. Same potential result, different paths.

It's just the nature of the beast really. FWIW, most of my amps are EL84 based and those are probably the hottest burning tubes so they get changed the most often, usually whether they need it or not.

How does a rectifier tube work?

is that a serious question ?

the rectifier tube makes use of the diode properties of a tube to rectify an AC into a DC to get the DC volts required by the tubes

the transister amp will have a similar thing ... diodes or a bridge rectifier (4 diodes)

in both cases this is then smoothed with capacitors

People like the sound of tubed amps for the 2nd order harmonics
...
they also tend to like the effect that a tube rectifier can bring
some call this power supply sag

it can bring a compressed quality to the sound

when tubes get hot the vibrations can shorten their lives

So 5 Watt amps are the best for recording?
Wow, I never really would of thought that! haha!

I've been a drummer for years. I can "play" alittle guitar, but not enough to know anything about it. I just want to get an amp so I can maybe practice alittle more, and also so I have one at my house so people can use it for recording guitar.

Question. If I would need to use one of these little guys on stage, would it work with a condenser shoved in its face going to a PA?

Sethiroth wrote: So 5 Watt amps are the best for recording?
Wow, I never really would of thought that! haha!

The best amp is the one you think sounds best regardless if its 5W or 500W. It's all taste.

I am a firm believer in low-wattage amps for recording. The reason being, you want the speakers as well as the power section to be able to develop their particular types of distortion and overtones to get that sound that we all seek in a guitar amp.

In an intimate studio setting where volume is not all that necessary, since you arent trying to cover the area of a 2000 seat hall, low wattage with all the tonal characteristics of an amp turned up is a no-brainer.

Having a cabinet to match the amps efficiency is an important step in this process. This is where your lower rated speakers (wattage wise) make a huge difference. Also as I said the efficiency is important.

Theres a couple of schools of thought towards this end.

One would be using a speaker that would allow the maximum excursion of the cone and its related distortions at a low output to get that 'speaker sound' with the head being up enough to bring the power section into that warm overtone state........

Or allowing the head to do its magic and putting an efficient but sturdy speaker which allows the pure head overtones to be reproduced clearly without the speaker loading (so-to-speak)

Either way, its much easier to get these conditions in smaller rooms without the advent of a 100 watt amp being turned up past the ability of the room and equipment to handle its level, with a smaller great sounding amp.

As for the tube life with a head as opposed to a combo, if you are playing a lot, the combo will wear out the tubes a bit quicker...EL,6L6, etc....

For recording purposes.....I put the head in the control room anyway connected to the cabinet out in the main room with a long speaker cord (not TOO long!!) so the vibrations arent an issue. IF the amp and the head stay in the main room and the player either stays with the amp or patches from the console, I NEVER put the head on the cabinet for the reasons which have already been touched on.

You've got enough to worry about getting the sound right without trying to identify a little harmonic vibration being fed into the mic because of things being stacked on things being played really loud.

Don ya tink......Lucy

I'm with Dave
but
sometimes, only sometimes, I do put the amp on the speaker
and sometimes I'll sit the guitarist right near the speaker to get some interaction and feed back

Dave said
" You've got enough to worry about getting the sound right without trying to .... "
KISS
keep it simple s....

and
as Halifaxsoundguy said
" It's all taste. "
no matter how you got it ... if you think you have the right sound ... print it

as for the live PA Question.
" If I would need to use one of these little guys on stage, would it work with a condenser shoved in its face going to a PA? "
yes, if the PA has a good foldback and side fill then a small amp or POD only can work
but
I'd probably use an SM57 and not a condenser

small amps in road cases with condensers is a whole-nuther thread

my take

hey guys,

first post, new to recording but, have been building guitar tube amps for the past 8 years and playing since 1965.

I assume this here "under 300$ amp" is for recording...

get the Tweed Champ from Ceriatone.com new or...get a second hand Fender Pro Junior or Peavey Classic 20.

All the best!

Nothing like the sound of the power amp tubes working in a small amp! I prefer low watts my self.

Halifaxsoundguy wrote:
The best amp is the one you think sounds best regardless if its 5W or 500W. It's all taste.

Word! I mean, I know this is a recording forum and all but it seems bassackward to suggest amps based on how easy they are to record without taking the actual sound of the amp into consideration.

A Champ with it's small speaker and a single 6V6 isn't going to sound like a cranked 100W Marshall with a 4x12 and a quad of EL34s regardless of the fact it's easier to control vibrations and mic up in a studio situation.

That's not to say a small amp can't sound huge in a studio environment or anything...but it doesn't have the same tone or distortion characteristics of a higher wattage amp with different power tubes.

This is coming from a source that knows more about amps and guitar tone than recording though...so take my opinion (obviously biased) for what it's worth... :wink:

RECmole wrote: [quote=Halifaxsoundguy]
The best amp is the one you think sounds best regardless if its 5W or 500W. It's all taste.

Word! I mean, I know this is a recording forum and all but it seems bassackward to suggest amps based on how easy they are to record without taking the actual sound of the amp into consideration.

A Champ with it's small speaker and a single 6V6 isn't going to sound like a cranked 100W Marshall with a 4x12 and a quad of EL34s regardless of the fact it's easier to control vibrations and mic up in a studio situation.

That's not to say a small amp can't sound huge in a studio environment or anything...but it doesn't have the same tone or distortion characteristics of a higher wattage amp with different power tubes.

This is coming from a source that knows more about amps and guitar tone than recording though...so take my opinion (obviously biased) for what it's worth... :wink:

Okay. I want to point out that in an on-stage situation (or rehearsal studio/barn/basement) there are factors in play that arent going to get you a good recording no matter how many stages of preamp, how many winds on the output transformer, how many speakers in play....etc etc...

If you want to OR NEED to play really loud to 'get that sound' and feel that this best for your recordings, then you better be prepared to shell out for a room that can handle the high spl's without introducing a bunch of nodes that will translate into the mics being used and print a horrid sound that even the best protooler cant fix.

What you hear in a high volume, dense, sound setting, is simply not what a mic hears. The brain will function as a filter in every situation like that and will tune out a lot of the really bad stuff thats being thrown around the room. A mic and a recording chain simply wont logic away all the bad stuff.

Theres an old old phrase in recording thats still true.........."mics dont lie."

Yes, you can get a great sound with high gain , multiple speaker cabinets, lots of pedals etc, but it will take a lot more tweeking to achieve this than to use a low-wattage high gain amp that will most likely sound great in many different rooms as opposed to the alternative which needs a very specialized room to truly work properly.

I think this is the point of the thread.

I couldn't agree more, trying to get a quad box to translate after recording into something that's not muddy and ruined is damn near impossible for me. However taking an overdriven practice amp to the edge makes for some awesome playback.

Mmmmm...then I vote for a silverfaced Fender Vibro Champ :wink:

RECmole wrote: Mmmmm...then I vote for a silverfaced Fender Vibro Champ :wink:

In doing so you would be recording with one of the 'secret' killer amps for studio ever built.

The Tweed version being slightly more desired but only because it breaks up a bit 'browner'. Evidence a lot of tracks with the Reverend Willie G on the famous Pearly Gates through tweed Champs, VibroChamps and such.

If thats not guitar noise I QUIT!

I have two SF Vibro Champs, and they are, indeed, good little recording beasts. (One is actually a Bronco...but..same thing).

I retubed and recapped them, and stuck some Weber C8RS speakers in them, and they sound great cranked.

Good luck finding them as cheap as I did, but if you can find them relatively inexpensive...good amps.

Fender Blues Jr.s are also great little amps. I have two of those that I picked up used for about $200 each.

I had some old C12Q Jensens lying around that I stuck in them. Retubed them with better tubes. They are JUST loud enough to use in a lower-volume small bar blues gig. And, I actually use one at practice with a bass, two guitars, full drums and PA as monitors. Plenty loud enough, especially if the front end is goosed a bit. I use a Tube Screamer for a bit of boost/overdrive.

I save wear and tear on my Deluxe Reverb RI by using the Blues Jr. for practice, and the DR for gigs. The guys were amazed at how loud that little amp was.

Overall, a good, used Blues Jr. wouldn't be a bad buy. Better tubes, a better-sounding speaker...nice amp.

Kapt.Krunch