First of all Mac is the industry standard for recording and video editing. Mac systems are altogether more stable. There has always been arguments on that point between Mac and PC users but, I use both, so take it for what it's worth.

Let me give you just a couple pro's and con's either way you decide to go.
Mac Pro's:
More dependable (won't crash handling audio loads like pc, stable operating system)
Industry standard
Faster/ Better processors and speed
Runs pro-tools
Mac cons:
Expensive
Not a ton of software for Mac applications
Difficult to upgrade

PC pros:
Tons of Software to choose form (logic, cubase, cakewalk, paris, Vegas, etc...)
Relatively cheap
Easy to upgrade

PC con's:
Unstable operating system
Slow (even p4 can not compete w/mac)
High turn-over

Program wise you are always best to go with what you know. If you have time to learn a new system, get something that will challenge you. I like logic, and cakewalk for pc, and of course pro-tools on the mac.

Hi, I don't usually post here, but I just wanted to point out in response to Cole's reply above, that PC's using AMD processors are outperforming Mac's by far right now. An AMD XP1800 on a A&V266-E motherboard with 512mb of memeory is pretty hard to beat right now.

I don't know about the stability issue though, I have no experience with Mac's. I do know that I have no problems at all with my AMD setup. I can record 24 tracks and 6 Aux tracks with lots of plugins with Protools Digi 001.

There is tons of info on the Digidesign website Users Conference. Check out the PTLE for windows thread.

Just my two cents worth. Like I said, I have no experience with Mac's to be an expert in this field. Just pointing out my observations.

Good Luck. :)

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go ahead and go with Rob on this one. I currently run a p4 1.3ghz with a Digi 001 system for about 10 months now or so, and never a single problem with it except for one lock up about 3 weeks ago. To me, that's a pretty damn good, stable track record. If I need to I can totally max out at 24 tracks, use all the aux buses, and run the digi stock eq and comps on every track, a couple of stereo delays, a dverb, the Waves S1, Q10, C1, and L1 all at once... Not that I really ever need to of course, thats quite a lot of stuff there, but I was bored and figured I'd try it out for the hell of it.

A few of my friends who own a Mac G4's with similar setups to me, theyre lucky if they can get 1/4 of what I can get up and running without errors. They're always amazed at how much I can keep running in real time, and thank god for audiosuite for their sakes. I think the old saying of "Mac's are made for video and audio" and "They're way more stable than pc's" is just that, an old saying that doesn't really hold much basis in the real world anymore. If you asked the same question 5 years ago, I probably would've said the same thing, but now, performance wise I think pc's are blowing mac's out of the water at a fraction of the price.

That being said, I think it comes down to two things.

1. Which platform are you more familiar with? If you're familiar with a mac, and have the money and don't want to take the time to learn pc, then by all means, go mac. If you know pc's well enough that if a problem does arise you know how fix it, then you can't beat a pc performance wise at this time.

2. Plug ins... There's a lot more of them for mac, for whatever recording program you're running I believe. If you NEED every plug in under the sun, then the mac is for you. But you have to keep in mind getting what you need up and running is probably gonna require a lot of audiosuiting, bouncing, etc.

I'm personally a bigger fan of get it right going in, and stock up on the outboard equipment because it's never gonna be obsolete, unlike the plugins that who knows if they'd be compatible with whatever system you're running 5 years from now.

Just my opinions from experiences I've had. :)

Mike

emagic Logic 4.8.1
Mac G4
Digi001 or any PCI interface

Cubase is so..so
Pro Tools LE is limited to 24track
Logic rocks and is much easier to use than before.

i would say that cubase 32 is great, very open architecture, as well as nuendo, nuendo is more focused on audio and is much more similar to protools in the way it works

Don't believe everything you see on TV. The Apple commercials were correct in stating that the Power PC chips are much faster than the Intel equivilant, but that is where it ends. Apple has always produced outstanding hardware and utilized the best CPUs but the OS has ALWAYS been a major slowdown. Benchmark tests have proven that PCs with far less cpu power were able to shine through and surpass the Macs simple do to their superior OS. I've been told that OSX has closed the gap some. Motorola has ALWAYS made a supirior chip since the Amiga days.
Now, since you are most familure with PCs I'd suggest that you stick with them.

I definitely have to disagree with cole on this one. Even the fastest MAC (I think it's now a G4 dual 1.0 GHZ... maybe a couple more Mhz) is going to run much slower than an intel P4 2.53 GHZ cpu. Not to mention the fact that Macs still run pc133 (maybe 150 or faster, but the point is, is that they don't utilize DDR or Rambus Ram which is much faster). As for stability, I think at this point in the game, they're probably about equal. I've not had 1 crash on my system in the last 9 months (win2k on dual proc AMD's) and it's great. I know a lot of people have problems with Macs stability, and a lot of people also really love Macs, it kinda evens out. But if you feel like dumping 3-4 grand on a new Mac, be my guest, they're great computers, but don't do so because you think they're way more stable and faster than a PC.

If you go with the Digi001, you will have track limitations because of the software. Any other program you use, your track count will be limited only by your computer set-up. So why go with something that has limitations buitl into it? Also the other stuff has things like VST-instrument support etc.

I can't see Digi upping the Track count on the LE system, because why would anyone buy theire bigger systems?

Also, as far as the MAc VS. PC thing goes. well I look at it this way. Computers are at the point for me where they are just another appliance. Like a toaster or a refrigerator. I'm not looking for a brand that's going to make me feel like I belong to an elite group of kitchen users.

Accept the fact that you WILL be upgrading you're computer from the day you buy it. So you can spend a pile of cash on a MAC today. Just know that in a year or 2 you'll probably be upgrading again. MAC = Pile of cash again.

The money you will save on your PC will buy all sorts of other things you'll probably need. Good mic pre, decent compressor, decent mic. If you think that usuing a MAC VS a PC will make your stuff better, well, you're absolutely wrong.

When it comes time to buy a PC, do the research, and make sure you get brand name componenets. Stay away from cheap Motherboards and videocards.

I remember the debate of MAC users of SCSI vs IDE. And MAC useres swore by SCSI drives. IDE drives were unreliable etc. Until Apple started using them. Funny isn't it.

Mark

Originally posted by Henchman:

I can't see Digi upping the Track count on the LE system, because why would anyone buy theire bigger systems?

32 tracks LE2 very soon ... the Gold Masters are made or being made.

but I could be wrong. ;)

Still a 32-track limit though. Not so on they other software.

yo Jesse Free: I've been building pc's for several years now and I personally don't think that theres any mac out there that can out perform a well built pc. True many studios have macs, but many of those studios are starting to incorporate pc's for many reasons. Performance, price, support, software, hardware, and compatability. Macs can't hang in any of these departments. I've worked with macs and i've worked with pc's during sessions and had the most success with pc's.

but it all depends on what you feel most comfortable with. going on that concept will give you the best results.

Also what type of recording will you be doing? such as.. will you be doing surround? if not, have you considered Sonar? its cheaper than both protools and cubase and is a very powerful program. I can vouch for it because though i have cubase, nuendo, reason, and logic, i still use sonar as my primary for what i can do with it and how easy it is to use; plus its cheaper.

as for the delta 1010, i personally can't speak on it, but i know another musician that uses it and has problems while using logic under 2K. i feel the best soundcards to go with are between motu or echo audio.

now protools le vs cubase vst 32? CUBASE VST32 is my choice. but personally i would go with nuendo or cubase sx if you are going with steinberg. both can do 5.1 and sx is based off of nuendo. besides, protools is always over priced and you can get the same results using other cheaper and just as powerfull, maybe more powerfull, software out there.

it all boils down to how much you really know your shit bro (equipment and software). i've made some pretty good sounding cd's from some of the ghetto-est studios all becaue of what i know, not for how good the equipment was.

I agree with most of the info here re: PC vs. MAC but one other thing to conder is session compatability.

If you think you need to take a session and move it to PT (or the reverse) at a larger studio say for tracking drums, and need to do it often think hard.

It is possible to get the tracks from one system to another but in most cases as of right now it is cumbersome. Logic is an exception?

I have a question about this Mac vs. PC debate...

Let's say I work for a post-production house, or a music studio, and I have to take my work home to finish, and they have a Mac and I have a PC. What are the issues surrounding platform (in)compatibilities, and what can I do to get around them?

Pro Tools LE is much more a closed system as Steinberg products or Logic. With the latter two you are able to make use of any converter, (almost)unlimited # channels. And a wealth of high quality VST and Direct X plugins.

For Audio I would go for Nuendo on a PC. For combined audio/midi Cubase SX or Logic is a more apropriate choice.

We use Nuendo now for 14 months. Under both studio and live conditions. Not a single crash since we started! (PIII/1Ghz - W2K).
I have no recent experience with Mac systems. But I have not a single reason to want to go back to that!

I have recently jumped ito the fray on this one after much pain staking research. It's true that at present Macs are more stable for audio but there is a growing faction of us out here who refuse to send all of our cash directly to Digidesign and Apple. Do these guys think were made of money? Hey, can I make a profit, please? My conclusion? "If it's not analog it's crap. If you buy it you better really need it because the day you buy it it will be obsolete. In a year it will have no value whatsoever. Go ahead, try and sell it. Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha...". After telling myself this I went and got an AMD Dual 1800 with 2 / 80 gig Ultra hard drives, DVD and CDR/RW drives, 1 gig of ram and Windows XP Pro loaded and configured for about 1600 clams. I decided to get a Fronteir Designs Dakota card, ($379 street) because I have a stack of adats around that I can use for front end and because it comes with free "cool edit pro SE" software (which is a good as any other as far as I can tell). All said, I'm into it for less that 2K. (A Mac Dual 1 Gig machine is $3500 alone) I can amortize out 2K before it becomes a door stop (like my adats) or better yet a sacrifice to the freeway gods. Also my wife is a lot happier with me spending 2K instead of 4.5K and a happy wife is a happy life. Maybe I can talk her into a UAD-1 card now!!! cedar flat fats.

I'm runnning Pro Tools LE on a Mac G4 and have been very happy with it. When I was trying to decide on whether to go with PC or Mac, one good bit of advice I received was to buy a turnkey system.

When shopping on-line for a turnkey system, I was surprised to find the system(computer,Digi 001 system, extra drives,etc.) was cheaper than I could purchase them anywhere else separately.

The advantage? If you go with PC, you have a Digi 001(or whichever you choose) system that you know will run on the computer you buy. No worrying about any PC component incompatabilities. With Mac, I wasn't very familiar with Macs at the time so I felt better having someone who knew what they were doing set up my system. Lastly, it's great just pulling it out of the box, hooking it up, and immediately starting to making music.

As for the Mac vs PC debate, as you can see from the responses you have here, it is very confusing. If your on a tight budget, go with PC. You will save a considerable amount of money(I would have saved over $1000). I went with Mac based on the additional plugs-ins that were available on the Mac format and based on it's longer history with running recording software such as PT. PC does have a greater variety of recording packages out there though.

You will have to find someone with experience recording on Mac and PC to get a good answer on reliability and speed differences. As far as stability/reliability goes, I do agree though that the gap between the Mac and PC is quickly getting smaller.

Hey guys!

IF YOU WANT ProTools get a Mac , then get a life!

Digi and all other developpement partners push much more on the Mac side forplug-ins So for the upgrades.

The choice for the application will determine wich platform you will use.

For those guys in the speed champ platform, don't froget thar DDS or SDR won't make any difference in the audio department. The processor or the codes written for specific apps WILL make the difference. It's like saying that a Nvidia GForce 3 will be slower than a GForce4 for rendering a reverb on an audio file!!

More on the peripherial, hard disk will make some serious difference, and compatibility file sharing/networking (depending on targetted needs) beeing able to read from different platforms.

It's the convenience wich makes a platform more interesting than another one.

C'mon guys be more serious.

for all you mac users... have you tried nuendo on pc yet? if you are a user of protools and want to try a pc based system, nuendo is the best bet for you. very stable and can do everything that protools can do from my experience. PC for better compatability, better software titles, better performance. thats my opinion :)

I must agree with you on the Nuendo vs Protools debate. Nuendo has far more flexibiliy and useful features. Not to mention the intuitive user interface. Having said that, I still haven't realized the stability - I have frequent crashes in Nuendo that I cannot explain. Even after buying a new system including a new sound card I still have problems.
Even still, and almost never having these problems with Protools, I stick by my believe that Nuendo is far superior.
I'm not a big fan of anything expensive and proprietary!

If you have at least a 200MHZ FSB, Nuendo works without peer IMHO.

It is very prone to problems with the AMD processors and their random ability to fragment a hard drive.

Under intel/celeron, P3/P4 archetechure, no problems at all here.

Just my humble opinion folks.

Test the threads of OPUS2000 for AMD. VS Intel systems for how they work with hard drive writing and stability of the platforms under audio use, your op system and processor.

Intel processors seems to be much more stable in writing and reading the hard drive for audio...again IMHO, and experience and also.......Reading..

YMMV of course...

Originally posted by Serge Locat:

Hey guys!

IF YOU WANT ProTools get a Mac , then get a life!

Digi and all other developpement partners push much more on the Mac side forplug-ins So for the upgrades.

The choice for the application will determine wich platform you will use.

For those guys in the speed champ platform, don't froget thar DDS or SDR won't make any difference in the audio department. The processor or the codes written for specific apps WILL make the difference. It's like saying that a Nvidia GForce 3 will be slower than a GForce4 for rendering a reverb on an audio file!!

More on the peripherial, hard disk will make some serious difference, and compatibility file sharing/networking (depending on targetted needs) beeing able to read from different platforms.

It's the convenience wich makes a platform more interesting than another one.

C'mon guys be more serious.

Serge

Where were you in these past eight months?
If you take a look at Digi's web site you could see that development for PC is growing equal with that for Mac: PC users were the first to get the XP upgrade and 32 tracks addition, while Mac users had to wait for the next release.

Having said that (with no offensive intentions), I work on Pro Tools on both Mac and PC: now I can really see no difference, each time I seat in front of the screen I see Pro Tools, the computer completely desappears, and the only difference is that to work my shortcuts I just press an apple key on the Mac vs a CTRL key on PC. I have a PT LE rig on PC, my collaborator has it on a G4, sessions compatibility is a breeze, but he likes to mix on my setup because I can run more tracks andplug-insthan him (or because my control room sounds better :)

I really want to emphasis how correct the Henchman is.The computer is only one third of your path 1-great mic
2-great mic pre
3-proper and noiseless cables
4-great reverb
5- great reference speakers-preferably DYNAUDIOS OR GENELECS
Get more bang for your buck remember tyan mother boards rock.They may be a bit more pricey than your asus crap but you won't regret it, solid drivers and very very stable!! Macs are the standard but you can get up and running just fine with a properly built pc. henchman good to see your from Vancouver .We run a facility here in Langley about half an hour from you .Must be the water . :c:

"It is very prone to problems with the AMD processors and their random ability to fragment a hard drive."

I must respectfully disagree here. There is no evidence whatsoever that AMD users are having less stability than Intel users. As a matter of fact AMD is the processor of choice for many that have a very stable system. The problems I have seen are usually due to motherboards. I've heard of many who can overclock an AMD 1800+ chip to nearly 2 ghz with no problems.

"Under intel/celeron, P3/P4 archetechure, no problems at all here."

Bill, I am glad it is working for you but I would never recommend a Celeron for anyone who wants to run Nuendo. If I were to run Intel then I would recommend a Northwood chip and a good motherboard.

Originally posted by Mike O:

If you think you need to take a session and move it to PT (or the reverse) at a larger studio say for tracking drums, and need to do it often think hard.

You just burn wave files of the session...all with the same start time...then they can load them into whatever daw they have (most likely pt) , work, and reverse the process back to you.

Originally posted by John Grimm (Vintage Studios):
"The problems I have seen are usually due to motherboards.

I do believe that this is much more of the issue. But in my case, I DO have an Athlon XP1800 but I was smart enought to heed the warnings and stay away from the VIA chipset (for audio use). I went with the SIS chipset on a Asus motherboard.

Most of the problems I have with Nuendo ARE NOT encountered when I am tracking something but when I do simple things like try to change a Genreric controller message, or add an insert.
I'm not sure what others are running into and I doubt if there is anyone who is using Nuendo WITHOUT problems.

In my studio /www.graffittistudio… i'm tracking with a Fostex D-160, and via SCSI drive put the wavs into my PC-P4-2,4GHz,512ram bus,DIGI9652 hamerfall sound card,Matrox dualhead VGA, runing the W XP,Cubase SX-1.0.56 and Wave Lab 4 for editing and mastering. I never work on Mac and I give some opinion of it, but i'm verry pleased with my PC. That's only for me.

Cheers !

I'm running Logic 5.5 with a 1 gig pc with the Roland studio pack and it kicks ass BUT I think this is the last Logic upgrade for the pc, it's all Mac from here on out. Unless something changes on the Apple end of things, I will have to switch to Mac to stay current with new versions of Logic. That sucks, and thats all I've got to say about that.

AMD cpu's are great for games and general apps but if you use them for processing audio you should be prepared for all the glitches you are guaranteed to get. Macs will out perform PC's everytime especially for audio and graphics. I use both, and work on both for a living. To build a PC that will keep up will cost you more than just getting a Mac in the first place......

Oh, and run logic on your shiny new, blisteringly fast Mac. You won't look back.

The one thing that all PC arguments neglect to mention is that "Windows is totally instable and super buggy". Its not the hardware thats the problem. By the way, Mhz Benchmarking is useless so don't bother going there....Use true floating point benchmarks.You will soon see that AMD cpu's are great for games but thats about all, P4's are better for audio. If you are really serious buy a Mac and run Cubase SX or Protools if you can afford to.

AMD cpu's are great for games and general apps but if you use them for processing audio you should be prepared for all the glitches you are guaranteed to get. Macs will out perform PC's everytime especially for audio and graphics. I use both, and work on both for a living. To build a PC that will keep up will cost you more than just getting a Mac in the first place ...... The one thing that all PC arguments neglect to mention is that "Windows is totally instable and super buggy ……. AMD cpu's are great for games but thats about all, P4's are better for audio. "

I don’t agree with any of this. I have a dual 1800 AMD, Windows XP Pro, running Cubase 5.0 … very happy … system is super stable, not buggy, has never crashed in over 6 months, sounds great and is less filling, cost less than $2000, with all the software! Sorry, I think that is one of the biggest loads I have heard in a long time … yawn, I am so tired of this Mac vs. PC crap …Macs are fine, so are PCs, AMD’s are nice, so are P4’s … And no one is better or smarter or smells better than the other for choosing either.. Kurt

OOps,

Sorry Kurt...............Hangs head in shame...........
I also own an AMD system but mine is a complete piece of crap! I wasted over $2000 on it and I have gone back to my old G4 350. My wife plays Solitare on the PC......just bad luck I guess

Divo,
A lot of this may have to do with how your PC is configured, what MOBO you have, which video card you are running etc. Another issue can be the OS. If you are trying to run Windows 98, that alone could be the problem. I run XP Pro. I got help from Opus in configuring my system and built it for audio only purposes. Audio doesn't require fancy video capabilities, a Matrox 450 card is perfect. I don't even have a modem card in it! There are a lot of conflicts that can arise with PCs and you have to be sure to address them correctly. But this only takes a day or so to do at most and in terms of saving funds it can help you hang onto a couple thousand dollars in some cases. Two grand a day ain't bad wages! Currently, PCs actually can be far more powerful than present day Apple computers. Go over to the computing board and speak with Opus about configuring your PC for audio. He will help you get it going so good it will blow the doors off of any Mac. Kurt

Henchman,
I bet you've owned a SCSI burner at one time or another. Why is it that every pro audio store in the late 90's would have told you to use SCSI hard drives for audio production because IDE drives were to slow? Why is it that USB 2 is half as fast as ieee1392b and PC users are still clinging to it like a sinking dinghy? You pay peanuts, you get monkeys. You spend good money on quality Mics, pre's and converters but you won't go the extra few yards on the computer.I can understand that some people are able to get under the hood and tweak and like that sort of freedom, and that budget has a lot to do with your purchasing choices; I know, I had to switch platforms because I couldn't afford to get a Mac this time around. Yes XP is a vast improvement, but I still miss the stability and finness of my Mac. Besides you don't see Microsoft or Yamaha introducing and developing new protocols for audio visual applications, but you do see a lot of Knock offs like M-Lan.

Everybody hates the Guy driving the Porche but deep down we wish it was us...The same goes for the big protools rigs running on shinny new G4 towers with the best of everything hanging off them. Just another tall poppy.....