Well I got the hum issue sorted. With all of my patch bay options I hadn't noticed that I had nothing on the inputs of my preamps during testing. It was weird, even with my Great River turned off, the LA-2A would hum as soon as I plugged it into the GR outputs. With the GR turned on with a mic plugged in, no noise.
Then when I plugged my RPQ into the LA-2A and turned it on, huge hiss! Until I plugged the mic in.

I ran several test tracks at various settings of the RPQ or GR and the LA-2A. I found I can get perfectly quiet recordings by keeping the LA-2A makeup gain no higher than 40, and cranking the preamps enough to drive the compressor to taste. The test was done using a Royer R-121, which has a typical ribbon low output. So I feel confident now that I can get what I want out of the LA-2A without undue noise. I was concerned for a while there!

Gain staging, gain staging, gain staging!

Jeff

Jeff is your patchbay half-normaled?

BTW, Slam the bee-jeezus outta that thing. 70 and 70.......Set the pre to compensate. Run it across an already recorded track like that. Vocals especially.

audiokid, post: 385198 wrote: Jeff, been messing all night with gains and the pre make a huge inpack on how it all responds including noise level. ( I love the SPL Premium Micpre's BTW , OMG are they nice!, (thank you Paul!) Seems pres with silky transformers are a nice touch with this setup. Tube mics also. I've never used so may tube pieces together that I like so much. Not getting that dark wooly sound for so much tube, but... its still the honeymoon month with all this.

The only noise I'm getting is a min amount of room sound. Its the LA2A opening up that sounds like a room. I have no 60 cycle hum and very subtle hiss (when cranked to 40/50). When my levels are matched the comp gain is around 20 and peak reduction is around 20. At this I'm pounding the LA2A pretty decent, too much for comfort. If my pre is down too low I have to obviously push the LA2A gain up which introduces noise and a less vibe sound. If the pre is set right, this thing friken opens up like Motown. Its really inspiring me to start singing again or to become an FM DJ lol.

Looking at the wave on the DAW, I could never get a level like this without it. Like you said so perfectly a few posts back, it just makes mixing that much easier. Vocal sound more in place, not out of place, more belonging. Hard to explain until you hear it eh?

I've been comparing the 1176LN to this and when I get the gains right, there is very little difference in noise between the two. The 1176 has a cool bite to it but its weird to get used to because the setting are opposite to most comps. I hate that but will get used to it. The 1176 is killer too. I want 3 of them. I'm having a UA GAS increase indeed. This stuff will never date. Its vintage gold.

Hope that helps!

"Dark and Wooly" wasnt the actual real tube gear sound at all. When that kind of gear was the ONLY thing available, the designers were trying to get the cleanest and clearest sound possible with the technology available. VERY VERY VERY High-Fidelity has always been a benchmark of well made, well-designed tube equipment. Many high-end audiofiles prefer the musical cleanliness of tube gear. The "wooly" came about with the advent of driving a signal much harder simply because of the change in the musical direction. That sort of distortion was unwanted and avoided prior to Rock and Roll.

Davedog, my patchbays are straight-through XLR single row units, no normal or half-normal configurations.

Yeah, I've been really pushing the LA-2A... had gain reduction to 70 and makeup gain to about 60 the other day, worked great. It still amazes me the you can push a compressor that hard and get GREAT sound out of it!

I use it on vocals on the way in, not on already recorded tracks. So far so good!

Jeff

Love this topic!

Dave, woolly as in using all tube gear in a chain can tend to sound a bit dark, fuzzy, woolly, cottony etc ( love that term) :) Up till now I've liked to mix SS with Tube. I get what you are saying though and had no idea. I have been schooled on this for sure.

Wow, 70, that's a lot of LA2A to me! I've tried that and like the electrifying whomp you get but so far on my end it sounds so much better driving a good preamp in and using the "less is more" concept with the LA2A. We should compare tracks some time though. I hope others follow Jeff and I and can get one of these some day. They really are special. Start an LA2A club lol!

Right on Jeff, and its always awesome having you chime in Dave. More more!

Another thought, Tracking and mixing with it. I put in in as an insert with my MixDream, a killer combo which is somewhat the same as using your console eh. . Its another reason why I would be "less is more", because you can safely mix a track later to really sweeten/juice it up after.

Wow, 70, that's a lot of LA2A to me!

Well, the backstory is that I was tracking a VERY soft-voiced singer through a dynamic mic (SM7b), already had the preamp cranked and was still getting barely a slight dip on the gain reduction meter. Had to really crank the reduction dial to get the desired result from the relatively low signal.

I've got some sessions coming up to track some acoustic bass and I'm thinking I'll try the LA-2A for this application. I have gotten good results using my avalon on acoustic bass in the past. Unknown, with the LA-2A, having no 'Attack' adjustment, is will enough of the 'pluck' get through before the compression kicks in. I'll let you know!

Jeff

Davedog, post: 385255 wrote: Jeff is your patchbay half-normaled?

BTW, Slam the bee-jeezus outta that thing. 70 and 70.......Set the pre to compensate. Run it across an already recorded track like that. Vocals especially.

Dave, I was reading Secrets Of The Mix Engineers: Joe Chiccarelli [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.soundons…"]Secrets Of The Mix Engineers: Joe Chiccarelli[/]="http://www.soundons…"]Secrets Of The Mix Engineers: Joe Chiccarelli[/] where he hit 80! So there ya go! I'll have to try that.

audiokid, post: 385669 wrote: Dave, I was reading Secrets Of The Mix Engineers: Joe Chiccarelli

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.soundons…"]Secrets Of The Mix Engineers: Joe Chiccarelli[/]="http://www.soundons…"]Secrets Of The Mix Engineers: Joe Chiccarelli[/] where he hit 80! So there ya go! I'll have to try that.

These type of settings arent for the faint hearted.!! This really shines as an insert to a well recorded clean and clear track to begin with. Its like adding a stage of tubes to anything you might want that type of sound on. Actually, now that I think about it, its EXACTLY like adding a stage of tube goodness!

I have been a fan of this type of sound for a long time. A tube pre done correctly over a full-range and complete solid-state power section. Not for guitar amps necessarily but for audiofile uses, its got a lot of subtle nuances you cant get otherwise. But there are exceptions.

A friend of mine developed a guitar amp some years back based on this principle. He had two different tube preamps and a great solid-state power amp with a huge power supply. Anything you threw at it it would do. I thought they sounded brilliant every time I heard one or played on one. Unfortunately they were spendy since he didnt scrimp on the right stuff and now I dont think he builds them anymore. The preamps were set up with one set being a Fender Deluxe circuit with a midrange control and the other being a JTM45 Marshall circuit. There was a blender between these and even a remote pedal for this function. Gerlitz . If you ever find one and can try it out, do so. pretty amazing amps.

Well I said I would let ya know. Jeff, here it is. Second LA2A arrived and am I ever having fun! Tracks posted on what these babies do for choirs is , well you decide.. This was my very first run through them so I am obviously green. But that doesn't stop me from stepping out and sticking my neck on the chopping block lol.

This is the new Lavry AD11 ( USB converter/micpre combo) and one Royer SF24 pointed into the choir. No processing, EQ, nothing (FLAT).

(Expired Link Removed)

(Expired Link Removed)

smoke

Sounds great, Chris! The OTB version is slightly warmer with a bit more detail in the low-mids. Both are great recordings!

How much GR were you hitting on the meter during the loudest parts?

Saturday I recorded Upright Bass through the LA-2A. I was fairly aggressive with it, hitting nearly 20 dB of GR on the peaks. Got a great result, probably the nicest upright bass recording I've done once in the mix. You don't lose those slightly not-as-resonant notes that normally would drop below the rest of the music, and the higher notes, which don't have as much power as the low bassy notes, are perfectly in the mix without the lower notes being overwhelming.
I used my Neumann M-149 Tube LDC for this recording, and it proved to be a good choice, giving rich lows and detailed mids, clearly defining the rich, woody sound that you want in a good upright bass recording. I drove the LA-2A with my Great River MP-2NV. I'll have to ask the artist if he minds my posting a sample.

How exactly did you post your files here so that a player pops up like that? I have DropBox, but am not familiar with that function.

Jeff

My setting was 20 and 20 . The VU were barley moving. Just a few times did they go to - 2. After playing with it a bit more since I posted this, I could have beefed it up even more with some stunning EQing. But I left this RAW for true comparison. This is so friken easy now. I'm happy.

Dropbox rocks! You signup and the rest is history. You get some free space and if you need more, you pay, simple. Its contagious.

Check out our new Forum http://recording.org/track-talk/ . Its perfect for comparing tracks and talking about it. Love to hear the bass track!

Interesting thread... I bought the LA 610 mk2 [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.uaudio.c…"]LA-610 MkII Classic Tube Recording Channel | Universal Audio[/]="http://www.uaudio.c…"]LA-610 MkII Classic Tube Recording Channel | Universal Audio[/] at Christmas for $1,600 which has an LA2A "style" compressor, now I am curious what if any sonic difference there is (less that the preamp can't be bypassed) and baffled why the channel strip is less expensive than an LA2A. I have only used it with a bass guitar, which I thought sounded great. I'll be tracking several vocals with it at the end of the month. Anyone using the 610?

Controversy Rising, post: 387164 wrote: Interesting thread... I bought the LA 610 mk2 [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.uaudio.c…"]LA-610 MkII Classic Tube Recording Channel | Universal Audio[/]="http://www.uaudio.c…"]LA-610 MkII Classic Tube Recording Channel | Universal Audio[/] at Christmas for $1,600 which has an LA2A "style" compressor, now I am curious what if any sonic difference there is (less that the preamp can't be bypassed) and baffled why the channel strip is less expensive than an LA2A. I have only used it with a bass guitar, which I thought sounded great. I'll be tracking several vocals with it at the end of the month. Anyone using the 610?

Hey, welcome to our no BS friendly community! And a Canuck from my homeland too ( west coast) !

The only thing I wish my LA2A's had was a bypass but I get around that with insert switches on my MixDream. It makes it easy to A/B them that way. These things are the read deal, made simple and to the point. Ever wonder why most really pricy gear is so simple and the cheap stuff are full of bells-and-whistles! Good examples here.

I'm told they sound close but nothing is quite like the LA2A itself. Which are now $4500 each. What you have is awesome.

I have the UAD-1 card and the UAD-2 duo satellite that came FREE with the 610.. but I can't use the satellite because it is mac ONLY.. didn't see that in the fine print but I am not too upset because the 610 sounds great. Anyone interested in buying an unused UAD-2 satellite .. I might sell it... I don't see me getting a mac until the fall.. or maybe not at all .I can definitely hear the LA2A "style" compression between the UAD card and the 610 .. but the 610 sounds ...full.. digital sound is just a representation of analog signal, there is ALWAYS going to be a tiny bit missing.. but it's close enough for horseshoes. Yup Canadian, I lived in Victoria for a year in the 90's. Next piece of gear in my sights is this [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.uaudio.c…"]2-1176 Twin Vintage Limiting Amplifier | Universal Audio[/]="http://www.uaudio.c…"]2-1176 Twin Vintage Limiting Amplifier | Universal Audio[/].

cool, nothing like the real thing!

you are welcome to list your gear in our classified.

Aside from the repackaging, I like the idea of that unit in comparison to the 1178. But which 1176 is actually patterned after? I rather doubt it has a 600 ohm input transformer like the original 1176? It's probably like the later 1980s Silver 1176's like the 1178 that utilized a 5534 IC chip input instead of a transformer. Also, the original 1176 had a unique custom output transformer. Now this particular transformer had a unique secondary tertiary winding. This winding was utilized within the feedback loop of the output amplifier providing some additional tonal character. The later 1176 & 1178's utilized a standard output transformer without a secondary tertiary winding in the feedback loop. So it was just an output amplifier into a transformer. I have both silver 1980s 1176's and original issue blackface LN from 1976. And there is a slight perceivable difference in the way they sound from each other. It doesn't matter, I use them interchangeably but I usually stick to lead vocalist on the blackface 1176. And that's also because I can load into 600 ohms, no problem. Most modern-day consoles certainly can't do that on the insert. And if they can, they're lacking an additional 10 DB of headroom or more just plugging into a 600 ohm 1176 and so they came out with that 10,000 ohm input differentially driven 5534 IC chip that basically mimics the 600 ohm transformer but doesn't sound like a transformer. And it provides no isolation electrically. Which is something else I could talk about when doing live on location remote recordings.

The old-fashioned... There is a method behind my madness.
Mx. Remy Ann David