Better late than never ....ac/gitr...ok for all you Taylor bashers out there...its true...some sound like rat farts...others sound like they used God's own tree to build em...mine is a 414-ce..when I bought it in 2000 I had budgeted myself for a 614 or 714 or 814...ya know, buy the best guitar i could find ...larrivees were cool and nice, martins were only so-so and none have ever replaced my pilfered 60's D-18...but after playing 20 or so Taylors they brought out this one that "had just come in and really wasnt set up yet....blah blah"...out of the box!!perfect intonation,action,balance in tone,no thump except when you want it....and a 'cheaper model' than the others...i also have a early 70's gibson that sounds real nice too...and for you J160 lovers..I've got a 1979 Ibanez 'ragtime'...odd shaped hole, plywood top, smaller body with a cutaway...kinda rare to find but very very recordable....kinda like an accompaniment 20's jazz sound...The best i ever heard and recorded with was a friends pre-war 00-16 martin..every note clear and it would sustain for a day and had an action like an electric....!and louder than hell.........peace

For acoustic guitars, Martin, Martin, Martin!!! A friend of mine who owns a well known vintage guitar store once told me, "There are 3 kinds of guitars. Gibson. Fender and Martin! Taylors (yuch) Jeff Larson uses them and I used to cringe every time he brought one in. There great if you want your guitar track to sound like a goose honking! I have 2 Martins. A 90's 001 acoustic electric and a 70's D28. I fell in love with the D28 one day when I walked into a music store. A guy was playing it and I was attracted to the tone. When he put it back on the wall I picked it up and it played like butter. It also fretted perfectly all the way up the neck and there were no dead spots. Hmmm, very rare indeed! Anyway, I use the 001 alot because it sits in the mix well. The D28 is very full and dominates everything I use it on. Just a side note; I would'n't let clients use a really good guitar of mine in the studio. I have put together a collection of nice but replaceable instruments (strat, tele, les paul my 001 and several basses) to have around for clients. This was reaffirmed after a guy from a major recording act (who will remain nameless) dropped my Martin 001 and cracked the sound board. He promised to get it repaired but it never happened. I'm just very happy he wasn't using the D28. Case stated! It doesn't matter who they are, let them break their own nice stuff. cedar flat fats

Man, I can't believe this thread is still hangin' on after all this time (originally posted March 18) so I thought I'd just say that I ended up buying a used Collings C-10 and am very happy with it. I listened to and played a lot of acoustics but just couldn't get over the lush tone of this guitar. After looking over this thread I guess it's safe to say that the choice of an instrument is a pretty personal decision.

I've had many. I've done the whole Martin thing but great though it is, that sound is a little dated.

One too many Little River Band records (no offence to David Briggs. Are you out there ol' buddy)

Right now I have an old Gretsch I picked up for $100 in an El Paso Pawn shop. GuitarsR'Us toild me it is a 1920's Orchestrar Model.

It sounds really ordinary until you record it. Then it sounds really interesting. Very different that the old, and somewhat pedestrian, D 35.

Great guitars Martins. Don't get me wrong.

Looking at a small body Tailor now.

Interesded to hear of personal favourites for recording. I love the J200 cosmetically, the Curly Maple back and front is my favourite in that regard, but they are just too hard to record well.

Simon Binks

Damn the typo's in past post. Sad reflection on how dependant I've become on spell-checkers.

Simon

i'll put in a word for matons, aussie-made a/gtrs

Re the Matons - and being an Australian also - I now feel bad.

Matons are a great, world-class guitar.

I've had a few.

Maton actually made me a really nice Messiah; to my preferencial specs.

For some reason, that always makes a guitar sound better, blind A-B comparisons notwithstanding.

Don't know why I sold that guitar. It recorded really well.

I have an old '57 Maton Supreme as well.

But I love unique-sounding guitars, which is why I am going to buy a new small-bodied Tailor.

Can't remember the model number, but it's a really unique sounding guitar.

That's my only problem with the trade-mark Martin sound. They are a work of art, but we've all heard that pristine, sqeaky-clean sound so many times.

Simon Binks

They're pricey, but the Collings D2H is a thing of beauty. You owe it to yourself to try one out - if you can find one. They usually sell pretty quickly once they get put out on display (around $2500 or so). They are modeled after the Martin HD-28, but they sound much more balanced to my ears. I own a Martin D-28. and while I have been happy with it, it can't compare to the Collings in terms of overall sound.

Has anyone mentioned CFOX guitars yet? If you're lucky enough to find a Hybrid model as the company is out of business (it looks like a small bodied classical guitar), this model records superbly.

Out of the guitars you mentioned I think the Huss and Dalton is the best. My walker was great too but I think that Huss and Dolton is amazing. You might check out the Macpherson before you buy. sounds amazing on their site and I have some amazingly talented guitar playing friends that own and love them. Mac Macannaly ever since i've known hi has always played his Martin but now he's playing the Macpherson. I have not heard one in person yet though. I am currently playing a Burchette. He's a new buider in Carolina and is very very resonable for the guitar he's building. I used to have an Olson and I think it's comperable to that for Around $1400. Records great too.

Interesting. I've always been a fan of the Taylors, but like someone said, I am primarily and electric guy. (PRS for the most part) I agree with the assessment of the Big Baby Taylor, it's a lot for the $. Some N'ville guys even use the small Baby for N'ville tuning.

As for the old J160E that I saw mentioned, dollar for dollar it is the biggest piece of crap you can buy for recording. Who would ever think of putting a laminate top on a $2000 guitar? I have a '69. Plays just like my '63 SG, but sounds like a Stella. Hope I don't offend any Stella owners.

peace, the dog

But I guarentee you I'm not going to spend more than $500 on a Seagull that sounds amazingly good ... much less for that kind of money, and I know for a fact it records beautifully

I'm sure glad someone mention Seagull in this thread. With all the high-dollar names being talked about I'd have been too embarrassed to mention that I use one.

My S6+ Cedar sounds wonderful on tape. I use a Sennheiser MD-441U pointed at an angle at the 12th fret about four inches away. This seems to get me the sound that I'm after.

The guitar is medium bright and not at all boomy or middy. Mine sounds best with GHS White Bronze Lite's. I love that guitar.

That was the best $250 I ever spent on a guitar.

They make nicer models and I'm sure with different tonal qualities, but on my limited budget over two years ago I didn't have a choice. I could get a different one now, but I think I'll keep playing and recording this one awhile longer.

I might want to retract some of the bad things I said about the Gibson J160E. I recorded over the weekend with it through an AT3035. It had a very useable sound, not exactly mainstream, definitly not a Taylor, but interesting in it's own way. I doubled the track and then did two more takes through the Johnson J Station acoustic emulator for a little air. Worked very nicely for a strummed rythm in a country ballad.

Don't be ashamed of the Seagull. They make some nice stuff that musicians can afford.

peace, the dog

Yes, I've heard the Seagulls are sweet! I'd like to hear an S6 but the local shop can't get them... big back order.

Sometimes I'm looking for "character" (for an overdub or second acoustic) as opposed to the best overall tone. In this case, cheap guitars can be cool. I keep a Yamaha FG110 (that I bought at a yard sale) strung up in Nashville tuning and it sounds great... of course I had to adjust the action and replace the tuning pegs but still it's always being used! I'd like to get a cheapo nylon string classical but haven't got around to it.

That being said, I still spent some serious money for my studio acoustic and everybody raves about the Collings C10. It really is a very special guitar!

Funny this thread should get bumped back to the top of the pile at this point in time -- 3 days ago I did some BG vocals with some very old bandmates and one of them decided to use the opportunity for the two of us to gather our significant acoustic guitars and do a shootout CD for the fun of it.

I hesitate even to call it a "shootout", because that conjures up the spectres of others mentioned here where the comparison protocols were called into question and generally poked full of holes. Real, valid holes.

So I'm not going to post a detailed list of the instruments included and high and low points of each and all that. For one thing the CD hasn't been burned yet and I have only my memory to go on. For another, it could very well be that the discussion I had with the engineer who recorded the guitars and the insights I had as a player will ultimately be the best stuff I learned.

The mike was an exceptional AKG C24 -- the same one we did the BG vocals with -- everything you could want from a great C12 times 2. A pair of Martech MSS-10 mic pres were used and the guitars were recorded M/S and direct to Tascam MX2424 @ 24/96kHz. We listened through Manley midfield monitors.

I brought my 1996 Goodall Rosewood Jumbo and my 2002 Rainsong WS1000. Tommy brought nine guitars, his own Goodall RJ, a Goodall RGC and a Goodall RGA cutaway, a Lowden cedar/mahogany parlor model and a beautiful new Lowden Brazilian Rosewood Jumbo, a fine Schoenberg OM, a Larrivee L10, a Taylor Maple Jumbo, and a Taylor 25th Anniversary cedar/mahogany,

Anyway, his plan was to play 2-3 minutes of various styles and dynamics on each guitar. using fingers, nails, and flatpicks, and went through the whole pile in about an hour.

They were careful to match the mike placement in two specific spots:

1. For everything except flatpick strumming, the capsule was pointing at the last 1.5 inches of the fretboard extension with the mike at the same angle as if it were a giant Coricidin bottle and you wanted to play slide on all six strings. In other words, the face of the capsule was parallel to the fingerboard, BUT was also twisted slightly off-axis toward the soundhole. The distance from the strings was about 12 inches.

2. For flatpick strumming, the mike was placed in the same attitude but farther up the extension, aligning with the edge of the guitar body.

For the smaller-bodied instruments a footrest was employed to elevate the right leg to maintain the placements. Overall, I thought they did a pretty good job of keeping them identical.

Before I mention any of the impressions I got, I must say first that there is no such thing as a bottom line on a test like this, except to possibly say that on that day, at that hour, that guitar sounded best on that style as produced by that player, on that microphone/preamp chain, in that room. And that's all. Change any of the above very much and you maybe get a whole 'nother set of opinions. OK, my impressions:

LEAST IMPORTANT FACTOR: Cost of the guitar. The cheapest, my $1400 Rainsong WS1000 stacked up amazingly well against MUCH more expensive guitars. It's clarity, pristine upper mids and crystalline highs came through beautifully. The more expensive guitars differed more in other ways than they did because of price. Ornamentation doesn't make noise.

NEXT LEAST IMPORTANT: For my ears and my money, the differing body styles. With eyes closed, a soft fingerpicking passage sounded as sweet on the Jumbos, especially the Goodall Jumbos, as on smaller guitars. Strummed hard, only the Larrivee Brazilian dreadnaught had the signature Martin low end woof and grumble. The most incongruous result was from the smallest, the Lowden parlor guitar, which sounded incredibly tubby through the C24. Jim, our engineer, believed this was because the cedary, warm, fuzzy, clouded midrange and a resonance hump around the open A string frequencies made it sound huge by comparison to much bigger, more balanced guitars on the strumming patterns being used in the test.

MORE IMPORTANT STUFF: Tonewoods. When you have a microphone that good and pres as transparent and lovely as the MSS-10s, you can really feel the difference in timbre made by the various spruces and cedars.

REALLY IMPORTANT STUFF: The builder. The four Goodall guitars in the test were all exceptional instruments. The Lowdens were extremely sensitive and musical, as was the carbon fiber Rainsong. Actually, there wasn't a dog in the pile. these guitars were all from builders who deserve their reputations for fine instruments.

CRITICAL STUFF: The room, the microphone, the pres, the monitors. After all, this is the whole enchilada, from a relatively quiet acoustic instrument all the way to ear and disk.

MOST IMPORTANT STUFF: The Player. My Acoustic chops are in the ballpark with Tommy's. We differ mostly in taste, but I have a faster left hand and he has a more articulate right. Still, I have no doubt whatever that, had we decided to take the time and repeated the exact test with my hands, my nails, my dynamic, the results would have made a bigger difference than changing between similar mics or pres, etc. I know it's tough to quantify the differences between mikes and pres and rooms. It's also tough to quantify the differences between players.

I may be nuts, or change my mind at some point, but the one thing that sticks in my head right now is this:

My pal Tommy has one particular fingerstyle that he plays extremely well. It is best exposed in a soft latin or jazz setting and evokes Jobim, Burrell. It translates well to classical guitar too, but here he was only comparing steel strings. Tommy nails this style. If I heard ten guys play it, I would know which one was him. Got me?

OK. Well, guess what -- when he played his test passage in that style, every guitar in the test, without exception, sounded better than it did on his other styles!

AND the most dramatic thing to ME was -- they all sounded so amazingly ALIKE when he played that passage.

And THAT is why, this week at least, I think the player is the most important link in the acoustic guitar signal chain.

If I'm right, your mileage will ABSOLUTELY vary.

Maybe there actually IS a bottom line here after all. Maybe it's that the AG signal chain IS a chain and as such, can be no better than it's weakest link.

The most hopeful thing I learned is this: If the biggest difference in my sound comes from the player, I can improve my signal chain for free!

Practice, young man, practice......

:cool: RW :cool:

I was in close proximity to the guitar shootout above, and I can confirm the incredible quality (and quantity) of guitars (and players) in the house!

My recent experience has been a constant love affair with my Goodall (Grand Concert Koa, Spruce top, c. 1987). For recording, I will argue that a small body like this (00 or 000 type) is almost always best, and works great with fingers or picks; you don't need to monkey with the sound. One tube condenser mic, move around until you hear the sweetspot, and roll tape (well, click on rec with mouse). From dynamic solos, to rock rhythm, to fingered riffs, it sang. Other great guitars like this (Olson, Collings, etc.) will fill that seat.

The other thing was, I had a picked arppeggio steel string part in mind. I took out my Ovation from 1969 with a cracked top, sat in front of the mic, recorded the track in one take. No compression (the O has no dynamics to speak of), no EQ (the O has no highs or lows, sort of the Bose of guitars), done. The argument for the Baby Taylor, Takamine, whatever, is often valid.

Doug

Originally posted by Curious G:
Yes, I've heard the Seagulls are sweet! I'd like to hear an S6 but the local shop can't get them... big back order.
special guitar!

Hi all, Jeff D here. I sold a 1986 s-6 seagull that sounded fabulous to pay the rent back in 1994.
Every time I listen to the 3 good tracks I recorded with that guitar I wish I had just let them evict me...

gilet guitars Australia go check them out

http://www.braenet.com.au/~guitar/

for resonators have a look at this Australian maker

donmo resonators

http://users.senet.com.au/~donjenny/index.htm

I don't really get the stated topic (or ANY "BEST OF" topic). It all depends on the part and the player, along with what instruments you have on hand. There is a definite threshold of qualitty (meaning that you can't expect good things from a crap gtr). But once your past that, the most inportant things are the player, the space, the mic and where you put the mic (or mics). the "Best" gtr for one part/sound, may and/or will not be the best for another part or sound. And a good production, with multiple a-gtr parts needs differrent gtrs to layer properly (or should...otherwise it's new mic's/palcement/eq to do that).
Finding someone or a buisness in your area that rents or trades agtr and amps is a desireable resource for modern production .

I agree with RM... So many variables. Plus I would rather hear a great player on a Stella than a mediocre player on a bazillion dollar instrument! I think the best one could do with this subject is to select a "Best all around average guitar for use by clients in a studio setting". To me this is simple... a good Martin D18. Not to boomy, chunky, bright, stiff, anything. Just a good average "Most Likely To Succeed" guitar.....Fats

Originally posted by Cedar Flat Fats:
a good Martin D18.

Ditto.
I'd add that a GREAT resource is a list of good players and their gear...to hire and rent on occasion. Your phone book is a tool too.

I have to agree that the player is the biggest factor.

I've always gotten the most consistently good results from Guild dreadnoughts although a very few specific Martins have been the best sounding guitars I ever recorded.

Pickup the World pickups!
http://www.pick-uptheworld.com/

My best guitar recordings have been with my Breedlove C22 through the pickup. Much better than anything I've recorded using Earthworks SR69, AKG C3000 or Shure SM57/SM58 mics.

Originally posted by cmc:
Pickup the World pickups!
http://www.pick-uptheworld.com/

"My best guitar recordings have been"..."through the pickup. Much better than anything I've recorded using"...."mics."

sorry to hear that.