i have two external (firewire) plextor CD burners.i use toast jam for burning master audio CDs at 2x speed. how can i test which speed is best for master CDs. i dont have any audio analyzer or similar toll. tnx in advance,
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The new PlexPremium burners have built-in error checking. If you
The new PlexPremium burners have built-in error checking. If you can get your hands on one of those.... (I recently got an external USB unit for about $150 USD. Absolutely LOVE it!)
Otherwise, I suggest that you burn the same material at each of the available burn speeds - each to its own disc - and then load each one back into your DAW and see which provides the best null with the original file.
These are good ideas but you should really have them analyzed to
These are good ideas but you should really have them analyzed to see what is going on. Some media burn better at higher speeds, some lower. I offer this to studios running the discs through a clover analyzer. I really don't make any money doing this because it takes forever. Mostly keeps my assistant busy. The plextor premiums drives can run a similar test but I think it leaves several things out. You can also contact some manufacturers and they might be willing to run a test for you, but it's usually only 1 CD.
tnx guys! it will take me some time , but i will compare cds wri
tnx guys! it will take me some time , but i will compare cds written with different burn speeds to original file,.should i extract from audio cd or should i record it to daw through cd digital out for comparison? a question for you michael? what is clover analyzer, is it software or hardware device? which brand of cd burner do you use and what do you think about plextor premium cd burners?
Clover is a stand alone CD analyzer, at least the one I have, QA
Clover is a stand alone CD analyzer, at least the one I have, QA-101. Every master that goes out is analyzed as well as listened to. I've caught a few CD's that were bad. The plextor premium drives are really good. The most reliable drive i've had for awhile. Considerably lower error rates than other drives. If your using a PC it also comes with plextools that does some error checking, kind of like a poor mans stand alone analyzer. There are only 2 affordable stand alones that i know of, Stagetech and Clover. The clover runs about $5,000 and the stagetech about $4,000 i think. Before I got an analyzer, I just kept my fingers crossed that the disc wasn't going to fail at the plant. All it takes is one CD to fail at the plant on a record that has a hard deadline and you become more willing to fork over the bucks for an analyzer.
Yes it would be more secure to send a DDP, but i can't listen to
Yes it would be more secure to send a DDP, but i can't listen to a DDP after i've created it, and that makes me nervous. I do know that some guys send out a DDP image on CDR, I would like to explore this option myself someday. But for now, I burn, analyze and listen.
Hi, Slightly off topic, I just bought a new Lacie d2 externa
Hi,
Slightly off topic, I just bought a new Lacie d2 external Firewire DVD/CD burner, mainly for DVD backup at 4x. However, I also use it for burning my CD masters at 4x. It's basically an Apple Superdrive, Panasonic, in an external box. What, if anything, might I be losing, or doing wrong by using this burner for my CD masters? Would I gain anything by switching to a dedicated CD burner like the Plextor everyone keeps talking about?
Thanks - Steve
The only Mac software that I know of that can play back DDP is s
The only Mac software that I know of that can play back DDP is sonic, but I got rid of that awhile ago. I'm looking at the new sadie system which can do that, but I've got a lot of money in my Mac and am reluctant to part with it to go back to pc. I'm waiting for some sign that sonic is going to stick around before I plot some more cash down. Otherwise i've been hunting for a stand alone software that can do all the DDP stuff I want. In the meantime my 8505xl sits.
Because I used to be a recording engineer and collected mics ove
Because I used to be a recording engineer and collected mics over the years. I still love recording vocals now and then and I love these mics. I don't record in my mastering studio, I usually lug them to another studio and use them there. But mostly a lot of my engineer buds rent my mics for their dates. I definately don't use them like I should but I just can't part with them.
Just getting back on topic (and I seem to remember covering this
Just getting back on topic (and I seem to remember covering this topic in the past), I think the best speed for transfer depends on the combination of drive & burner. Each combination is different. I have a couple of Seagate drives & Sony CDW-900E burners with a Sonic Solutions system.
I myself wouldn't be quick to dump the Sonic as it has made great sounding, low error CDs for a long time while other flavors of the month have come & gone. I would almost consider getting a good used Sonic system (perhaps at a going out of business sale or an "upgrade" sale) before a lower priced new system. I know Sonic no longer supports my system, but it has been just fine for me to date (but now watch what happens.....).
Yeah Don, i wouldn't have said that. The last time I said that,
Yeah Don, i wouldn't have said that. The last time I said that, I was using a powertool and thinking to myself," boy, i've had this longer than anything else and it still works great" 5 min later it erupted into flames. Yeah, i agree with Don on possibly finding an old sonic, the problem is support so that makes most feel uncomfortable. I would like to find myself a 24/96 sadie system for cheap, they still support it and from what i can tell it works great. It sucks that it's PC but you can't win them all. I was looking into the Sonic HD for awhile but they are pricey. The good thing though is that you can run protools in the same system. I would like someone to come out with a stand alone software that is really geared towards mastering. I know the usual suspects out there but none quite make it though.
Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel: i have two external
Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel:
i have two external (firewire) plextor cd burners.i use toast jam for burning master audio cds at 2x speed. how can i test which speed is best for master cds. i dont have any audio analyzer or similar toll. tnx in advance,
The only way you can test it is to burn the same material in every speed the drive permits, and then listen to the different burnings on a good system.
I would say that 1x is the best speed though!!
Hm, the "problem" is that the Internal CD-burner of the G4 with the Toast burns at X4 or X8
I believe there is no one correct or best speed to burn masters.
I believe there is no one correct or best speed to burn masters. It all depends on how smoothly your hard drive can transfer data to the burner & how the burner wants the data to be input. It must be established by trial and error (compare sound & try to hear differences) and testing on computerized QC / error checkers.
And yes, Michael, I agree that the Sadie would be just fine too!
I would suggest using Plextor Drives at 2X. I can't speak direct
I would suggest using Plextor Drives at 2X. I can't speak directly for the man but I think Bob Katz would suggest this too. In fact I think I got the suggestion from him... Anyway use good media designed for 2X speeds. I'm not sure what's the best media these days but I would check out Apogee disks and see how they are. Keep in mind that there are really only about 3 or 4 CD-R manufacturers in the world. Every company buys their media from these few and puts their label on it. I'm also told that software you use makes a difference. I don't know about that but I noticed a post about that topic called "What is the best program to burn cd's with?"
Plextor drives are very good, it's the best one i've used so far
Plextor drives are very good, it's the best one i've used so far and i've been using TDK media with them with very consistent results. I'm currently testing music cdr's as media since they are pre tracked. I know some ME's use this kind of media for their masters with good results. What i've found is that most of the media now has no real problems at higher speeds. I get pretty much the same error results burning at 2X-8X. To me it's more of a system and thru put issue. So I will burn at a slower speed just to not push it, but I find the media and burner can handle higher speeds.
you don't have to do scsi but it sure is reliable, although gett
you don't have to do scsi but it sure is reliable, although getting harder to find. I'm not so confident about USB though, especially at higher burn speeds. I recently tested a disc that was burned on a usb drive, not sure the model. And the TOC and PQ didn't match. The TOC had 10 tracks and the PQ had 9 tracks. I sent it to a manufacturer and had them test it on their eclipse system and the same thing popped up. It seems while it was burning the disc it skipped an id. I've never seen this before and i can't tell if it was a system error or drive error. It was not a media error. I'm trying to find out from the client what his setup is and how he burned the disc. He obviously didn't check the disc or he would have caught it. Before i purchased a plextor drive, I was burning refs on a yamaha 100 drive and every once in awhile i would get a pop between track 1 and 2. nothing consistent, like 1 out of a hundred and only on refs because I was using a richo for masters. completely drove me crazy and never found the culprit. I finally found a couple of plextor drives on ebay for like $60 new and sealed and have never had a problem since. now I burn everything off it. Now the only variable is the media. I do find about a 3% failier rate on most good media with my clover analyzer. Not a failier on playback but an abnormally high peak error spot on the disc. An error that reaches the second stage of correction and too close for comfort as any more and the disc would get an e32 error, uncorrectable. TDK seems to be one of the most reliable media I've tested burning with a plextor drive. I burn masters at 2X and refs at 8X with about a 1.2 average bler rate at 2X and about 1.4 at 8X (I believe up to 6.0 is still considered a grade A disc). This is testing at 2X since most manufacturers xfer and higher speeds during glass mastering. ide drives or stock drives in computers test the worse. Since most people don't know off hand what model they have, I can't comment on which ones are worse. but from what i've tested, they have nearly double the error rates of scsi and firewire drives that i've tested. Again i'm not sure of what models to look out for but the sony drive that came in my mac is horrible. If your mastering for a living, don't skimp on the drive. if you don't have an analyzer, then find a mastering studio that will test your discs for you.
I've now tested a Plextor SCSI burner at different speed's with
I've now tested a Plextor SCSI burner at different speed's with different media.
Some media is best at 1x and some i found did best at 4x.
I have a disk burn test in my Sequoia and (correct me if I'm wrong) what it does is comparing the burned material to the original soundfile.
It was very clear what the media liked best, when it was a little too slow or fast the burned disc got a lot of errors.
What media are you using Michael and others...? and are you making DDP or Audio CD's to go to the plant?
Best Regards,
Henrik
Right now i'm using TDK media, so far it's very consistent. I've
Right now i'm using TDK media, so far it's very consistent. I've tried others but it seemed to very from batch to batch. I don't know how your system compares, but it's nice that it does though. I now send out CD-R's to the plant but I'm really wanting to get a SonicHD system. I would like to stay on Mac and i've been told by sonic that I can have both sonic and protools cards in the same system. I have an exabyte 8505 drive and would like to send out DDP's but unless you have sonic or a really old version of Masterlist, there aren't any other options that I know of. if you have a plextor premium drive, they have software now that anaylzes the error rates on you CD. Not as indepth as a stand alone but still great to have none the less.
We use Taiyo Yuden CDR-80 and have no problems with them. We nor
We use Taiyo Yuden CDR-80 and have no problems with them. We normally burn at 4 X and they are virtually error free. We use nothing but Plextor burners so that maybe the reason we have not had any problems with the CDRs. We use to use different media and we were cutting coasters every so often so we switched and have been very happy with the results.
Henrik, I don't know if your burner is actually testing the dat
Henrik,
I don't know if your burner is actually testing the data or the disk. As far a i know, only the plextor premium can do error checks of the disk. That and stand alone testers. what it's probably doing is comparing the data on the cd to the image? This is good for catching an unrecoverable error but doesn't check for near failure or lower quality burns. I believe it has to be a drive implimentation. maybe it can recognize if the drive is capable of doing these tests? I don't know.
Henrik, I have a Clover QA-101 analyzer. it's a stand alone chec
Henrik,
I have a Clover QA-101 analyzer. it's a stand alone checker that does 1X and 2X speeds. It checks everything including jitter if hooked up to a scope. Hooked up to a printer, it prints out the error rates and location of any unrecoverable errors. it also tells you the peak and average errors of both the 1 stage and 2nd stage error correction. What's nice is I can also use it to load in audio in that it has an AES output and will printout any errors that it encounters as i'm loading in. I believe they go for around $5000 now so they are pricey. Stagetech also makes one that i've used and it's very good as well. If you have a PC, you can get a plextor premium drive and download their software that will do some error checking. If you are sending something to the plant, they usually run it through the eclipse analyzer and if you ask them, they can send you a printout of the results, but that's after the fact and won't help trying to determine how good your CD is before you send it out. I send mine out as CD-R and not DDP image. I have an exabyte drive but no software that i like to work with that will write a DDP tape. I haven't tried sending any DDP images on CDR because some manufactures get confused when they get this and have screwed up.
i have two external (firewire) plextor cd burners.i use toast j
The only way you can test it is to burn the same material in every speed the drive permits, and then listen to the different burnings on a good system.
I would say that 1x is the best speed though!!