I'm seriously not trying to be a butt-head to people on the board, so please don't take it that way. But, this topic and the question contained within makes me roll my eyes and die a little inside.

I'm going to make a statement in bold and caps. It's not that I'm yelling or pissed, I just want to emphasize one SERIOUSLY important point. Here goes:

YOU DO NOT EVER GET A GOOD TONE INSIDE A PIECE OF SOFTWARE. IF THE SOUND GOING TO TAPE OR HARD DRIVE IS NOT EXACTLY AS YOU WANT IT TO BE, YOU HAVE FAILED. START OVER AND GET THE SOUND RIGHT IN THE ROOM AND IN THE MIC.

Again - very sorry if it seems like I'm yelling - I'm not.

Do you like the sound you're getting in the room? In other words, while you're playing and listening (and I mean REALLY listening) do you actually hear the EXACT sound you want? If no, get it there. If yes, move on to the next step.

Now - place your microphone(s).

Now, listen through your cans or your monitors.

Are you hearing the desired result?

If yes, you are done, if no, move on to the next step.

MOVE THE MICROPHONE.

Find the spot where the microphone sounds good and then stop. You're done.

If you cannot get the sound you desire with a MB/Marshall and SM57, you're doing something VERY wrong.

Again, not meaning to be harsh - this is just the reality of it.

Cheers-
J.

This is difficult to answer, because "good" tone can mean many different things... even "modern hard rock" is pretty vague.

Also, I assume you are micing an actual amp, not using software emulation? If so, I think you should turn to protools (eq, etc) only after you have the best possible tone from your guitar, amp, and mic placement. Can you describe your setup/settings in more detail?

[edit] Jeremy beat me to it by a minute, and with more emphasis. :)

mwacoustic wrote: [edit] Jeremy beat me to it by a minute, and with more emphasis. :)

Emphasis? Where did I put emphasis??
:shock: :wink:

Hey look - we actually had the same answer...that means we're right, right??

Well, it was a subtle kind of emphasis. I was reading between the lines.... ;)

And even if we were both wrong, 2 wrongs=1 right!

pfactionbrett wrote: I had one I really liked a week or so ago...

This may be a dumb question but do you have that one from last week saved with all your settings? If so, copy them. If not and the tone you liked a week ago was a result of your internal tweakings (eq, compression, efx, whatever) then it would be tough for me to know what you need. I don't know what your sound at the source is so I can't really recommend EQ settings.

+1 on Cucco's comments

I'd like to add, when moving the mic, make sure to try different speakers, position, distance and angle. They all can make a huge difference.

I'd like to add more emphasis.

What Jeremy said holds true for everything you put in front of a microphone.

There are countless threads on this site which pertain to mic placement, room, tone, gain structure, etc...

It all boils down to his post right here!

I don't mean it by getting the tone inside the software, I mean listening to my tone while it's miced in my software. Sounds quite different than in the live room itself. I've moved the mic a million times and I just can't find what I want. I guess I need to be specific maybe a tone like Chevelle, or 10 years, not the ebst but the sound I want for the song.

I have it sounding good in the room, but miced up it sounds different no matter where the mic is not to mention double tracking it is going to sound different as well. I want to get it as close I can without using Eq plugins, only using those to fine tune.

Interesting.

I had one I really liked a week or so ago and I can't seem to find it again.

How did you have it set up last week?

Now - place your microphone(s).
Now, listen through your cans or your monitors.

I'm afraid that he plays and records in the same room.
If this is the case, I doubt he can monitor with any decent
quality even in cans - too much leaks in from playing.

well I can't get it how I had it due to mic placement, or slight changes in the EQ I guess, but also that's one tone I can't find any others I like. I don't want the same sound in every song.

yes in the same room but It's decently isolated, in a big closet type room, with a lot of padding and stuff stopping sound, I'm really not getting leaking much at all

So you are hearing a huge difference between the sound you hear directly from the amp and the sound that an SM57 picks up and you hear played back through your monitors? Sounds like it could be problems with the acoustics in your room. How does it sound when you sing into the 57? Usually close micing the amp reduces the problems of room acoustics, but they can still be a problem during playback.

Did you get Amplitude or some other amp simulator with PT? Have you tried recording direct?

Hard lesson learned then. Always keep documentation. I used to have sheets printed out of console strips with the knobs and faders blanked out. Somebody, usually the second engineer or tape op, would go and mark all the settings. Even though it won't be exactly the same when you come in next time, you at least get in the ballpark.

I don't know if they still do this but at some studios they would charge for every knob and fader that wasn't zeroed when you left. So, maybe that doesn't apply in your own studio but documentation can save a lot of time if you can't leave things exactly as you left them.

I think it has to be the mic placement that's off. there's so many ways, off axis, center, edge of center, edge of cone, center cone etc.

is the guitar not full enough? or what is the tone lacking that you want regained?

pfactionbrett wrote: I think it has to be the mic placement that's off. there's so many ways, off axis, center, edge of center, edge of cone, center cone etc.

You can document that too. Measuring tape and stick drawings work.

I still find this hard to figure. That's a good amp and cabinet. Stick a 57 anywhere close to the speaker and you should get an OK sound. Nothing to write home about maybe, but nothing to make you move the mic a million time and describe the situation like he does. Either the room or maybe the mic?? Has someone been hammering nails with your 57?

What kinds of things have you recorded where you got a sound that you really liked?

I have to agree with Bob -

Good instrument, good sound, good microphone...it's a recipe for a good recording. You should be able to place the 57 and within 30 seconds get the sound in the recording.

This tells me that the sound that you're hearing in the room is not the actual sound that's in the room. Rose-colored glasses for the ears??

Well the sound is full, but it sounds kind of dull. It doesn't have that rumble and definition that I want.

the sm57 is brand new

things I recorded that I had a tone I liked were open and bar chords in drop d.

I guess basically it may be that my EQ is lacking something but I can't seem to figure out what.

Maybe i'll post a clip of the guitar tone later today and you all can give me some input.

pfactionbrett wrote:
I guess basically it may be that my EQ is lacking something but I can't seem to figure out what.

Dude...did you read my first post??

Your EQ is not lacking.

Don't touch the EQ.

Get the sound using the mic and the cab. If you can't, you will only screw up the sound more by using an EQ. It's a matter of taking a bad (or "off") sound and screwing the with phase (which is what EQ does). Your sound will never get there with EQ.

You may think it does, but when you listen to it over and over, you'll start to say..."gosh, my guitar still has that wierd something to it..." that "wierd something" is the EQ.

Do you have any more/other mics?

I meant the emsa's EQ but ok.

I have a sm57, sm58, and a poopty Nady PCM-100 condenser mic that my singer bought because he liked the "look" of it.

Just on the off chance, you didn't happen to move the amp did you?

Maybe i'll post a clip of the guitar tone later today and you all can give me some input.

Please do! In fact, if you could post maybe 3 different clips, along with the documentation of the different setups (stick figures and the like) and what you do or do not like about each, you might get more specific recommendations.

Maybe i'll post a clip of the guitar tone later today and you all can give me some input.

Please do! In fact, if you could post maybe 3 different clips, along with the documentation of the different setups (stick figures and the like) and what you do or do not like about each, you might get more specific recommendations.

pfactionbrett wrote: I meant the emsa's EQ but ok.

I have a sm57, sm58, and a poopty Nady PCM-100 condenser mic that my singer bought because he liked the "look" of it.

My bad - yes, tweak that EQ to your heart's delight.

Re: the Nady...after you use it to smack your singer in the back of the head for purchasing it based on looks...try it in conjunction with your 57. Maybe it will add a little depth.

If I'm ever struggling to get "that" sound out of a guitar and I can't do it with a single Beyer M130, Royer 121 or SM57, I grab a second mic (usually condenser and usually a little edgy) and add it in.

Also, have you tried micing the rear of the cab? Sometimes this helps a little too in getting a different and good sound.

Pfaction,

You mentioned earlier that you were digging' the tone in the room, but what was actually going to tape doesn't cut it. Have you thrown up a mic in the room and listened to it along with your mic in front of the driver?

You've got three mics, throw them all up and see what sounds you can capture.

I have been quietly watching this....

Now I'm gonna go ape frickin shite!!!!! :evil:

Nevermind...I'm okay now.

Dude. Ya got such good advice...OVER AND OVER.

Ben got it real close in his last post.

IF...and I say this with a hopeful tone.....IF theres a spot in the room that you absolutely LOVE the sound of the amp, mark that spot. Get ANY frickin microphone...even the pretty and useless one....put it on a stand at the heighth of YOUR EAR....the one you LOVE the sound through......mix this second mic in with the first not so cool sound.

Its really easy. AND it'll either work or it wont.

The next thing you should do is document all the attempts you've made, assess if any of these are doing what you want, and if not, move on to something and come back to this one later.

After a while of frustration, ours minds start to play tricks on us.

Well last night I found a nice sweet spot with the sm57 on one of the speakers. I marked the face of the cabinet with tape so I don't lose the position.

I then also took the Nady and put it about a foot away from one of the speakers and I recorded those two mics as two tracks. I liked the tone, so I doubled all the parts so I have 4 tracks and I have to say the parts of the song with chug chug palm muting sound absoultely wonderful. The nady sounds brighter, but it doesn't have the edge and dirtyness of the 57 so I lowered it quite a bit more compared to the 57 in the mix, panned the 57 to the left, nady to the right on the one track, then opposite on the doubled track.

I think if I just found a good EQ on my amp for the next tone I'd do, my mic settings would work perfect. What ballpark of settings (EQ) would work for decent metal tones like killswitch engage or something. I have a friend wanting to lay down a metal song but I dont play metal and wouldn't know where to start EQ'ing a metal tone.

thanks for all the help so far it's lead me in the irght direciton.

Maybe you could put the amp somewhere else in the room. Oh, you may not be able to achieve that first sound. Your memory might have glorified what you actually heard. Instead, maybe try and get a brand new tone that you really like. Or add another mic and keep trying.