....JP22.....Be vwerry vwerry caerfull goin into da marsh....deers creepy crawly tings in'ere..

AND YOU! Yes you Mr. Shotgun.......Trying to lead this UNSUSPECTING LADDIE into the depths of yer devious and dark void you call a 'site'....It troubles me, but if the horse will follow......oh well......

Mr. JP22. Please be aware that SAFETY EQUIPMENT is REQUIRED in the Marsh. Uhhh, goggles for flying objects.....HMI regulation strapon(of course).....You will find a good solid rubberized pair of HIPWADERS especially useful....DO NOT go in without the DOT certified HelMEt....(HelMet cam optional)....In case of a sudden accidental loss of AIR PRESSURE, a breathing attachment of some sort is highly recommended......

Be sure and pray a lot before entering......Mr.Shotgun is one of the milder beasties ensconced therein.

well said Dave

I must admit that this thread is a fun read.
:)

Fascinating, Captain

I find this whole subject to be wholly engaging, curiously refreshing, and decidedly different. In a word, fascinating.

By the way, I am 125 Terran years in age. Jp22, can you tell me how many metric years that is equivalent to?

V/ ♂

buttachunk wrote: Here is my translation of what JP22 is saying about restoring lost dynamics;

dynamics being defined as the difference between loud and silent.

You must have attended the JP22 school of engineering ;)

Please provide a link showing that definition.

let's say a compressor rolls off -3db at 20khz on a track. Adding corrective eq frequency-selectively restores the lost dynamics , because now that dynamic range is restored by the corrective EQ in the affected frequencies (if the track was -5db at 1k, but -8db at 20khz, and the noise floor was -65db, then the dynamics (as defined above) at 20khz are literally restored by the EQ and not by the compressor).

Are you sure you aren't JP?

Does anyone understand how a de-esser works ? It's a frequency-selective dynamics control. EQ is half of the equasion-- for those who laugh at JP22, try de-essing with only a compressor and no eq in the sidechain (not a plugin or sissy de-esser, but a real manual de-essing sidechain).

I am sure lots of people here understand how a de-esser works. Do you? It is frequency selected compression.
Good luck de-essing without the compression part. :roll:

Jp22 wrote:

What would it take for you to write a post about your entire recording chain/process for guitar? If you don't feel like these recording.org folks are receptive to thing they don't understand, I can show you a place that is. Just lemme know, buddy.

Well, since I would (according to most) beyond all shadow of doubt automatically be the gullible one to trip like an unsuspecting fool onto any 'mousetrap' with a healthy dose of cheese sittin on it.... by all means, lead the way.

Well, I tried to PM ya, JP my man, but PMing is apparently a feature I'm not qualified to operate.

At any rate, try registering over at http://marsh.prosoundweb.com/ the folks there are good people and they'll treat you right. No matter WHAT anybody here says (obviously you already know what THESE guys' opinions are like!). They're a little more open to things out of the norm. In fact, a thread detailing a similar idea to yours was over there recently, ironically enough.

There's a couple of forums there that would be a good fit for you. Either Recording101 or EnGoia Recording would be my first picks. The Guitar forum being a close second.

Tell them I sent you.

Yer buddy,
Shotgun

JP_Is_God wrote: You must have attended the JP22 school of engineering ;)

Please provide a link showing that definition.

ha, you're such a clown...

http://
http://otto.cmr.fsu.edu/~elec4mus/topics/decibel.html

or simpler ones you may understand;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=4rv6tb2ulegf5?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Dynamic+range&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc05a&linktext=dynamic%20range

dynamics/dynamic range is the difference between the loudest and quietest signal as a relative measure, sometimes expressed in decibels, sometimes in millivolts (relative because true zero is mathematical and not practical-- even ground has noise...). dynamics does not automatically mean compressed, as you may be trying to cleverly incinuate.

JP_Is_God wrote:
Are you sure you aren't JP?

wow, do you have a crystal ball ?

well, given the fact I've never been to Minnesota, and I just found this thread last Friday,,, yes I'm sure.

JP_Is_God wrote: I am sure lots of people here understand how a de-esser works. Do you? It is frequency selected compression.
Good luck de-essing without the compression part.

...didn't i say it was a frequency selective dynamics processor ? wouldn't that definition include compression ? you appearantly don't know that a compressor IS a dynamics processor, and you are calling me dense... :lol: :lol:

Uhh.... Buttachunk

Before you get excited and think that Jp22 IS the new Edison - take a look at how eq's work just once more with me.

By your definition (as well as most anyone else's) dynamics ARE in fact the difference between the loudest and softest passage.

However, when you add an eq at say 1kHz, you now raise the signal AS WELL AS THE NOISE floor. Meaning, if you had approx 45 dB of dynamics and you raise 1kHz by 3 dB, you've raised both the signal AND the noise floor by 3 dB at 1 kHz. Therefore, you've still kept the dynamic range at 45 dB.

And, before anyone else gets the silly, silly notion that you can restore dynamics with EQ based on this:

If I have a track peaking at -3dBfs, but when I add 3 dB of EQ gain at 1kHz, I now have a signal which peaks (or worse, clips), therefore, I must have added dynamic range back.

Well, again, that would be great, except you ONCE AGAIN EQ'ed the NOISE FLOOR too. You don't have higher dynamic range - you now have higher noise and signal at a selected frequency. Hopefully, this is something that a Mastering Engineer would catch and FIX! B/C, it IS a problem.

:D

Re: Fascinating, Captain

Spocks Penis wrote: I find this whole subject to be wholly engaging, curiously refreshing, and decidedly different. In a word, fascinating.
By the way, I am 125 Terran years in age. Jp22, can you tell me how many metric years that is equivalent to?

Well, let's see.... doing a quick net search on the subject I believe a "Terran" would be 8 "T-years". So for every Sphinx's "cat's eye" this would make me approximately 296 as of Octo(ber) 8th. Stating it in a "metric" year equivilent though however, would be to me.... illogical.... since I would, of course, need a better reason for that. Maybe you'd like to take a bit of time to calculate the odds on why I would ask for a reason.... or better, how about the probability of me asking for one? Wouldn't that be one-in-the-same? Am I reiterating? Tell me, because I only stutter in the presence of Spock's.... uhhh.... well you could have at least chosen a more 'masculine' word, which leads me to assume.... eh-hem - forget it.

Davedog wrote: ....JP22.....Be vwerry vwerry caerfull goin into da marsh....deers creepy crawly tings in'ere..

AND YOU! Yes you Mr. Shotgun.......Trying to lead this UNSUSPECTING LADDIE into the depths of yer devious and dark void you call a 'site'....It troubles me, but if the horse will follow......oh well......

Mr. JP22. Please be aware that SAFETY EQUIPMENT is REQUIRED in the Marsh. Uhhh, goggles for flying objects.....HMI regulation strapon(of course).....You will find a good solid rubberized pair of HIPWADERS especially useful....DO NOT go in without the DOT certified HelMEt....(HelMet cam optional)....In case of a sudden accidental loss of AIR PRESSURE, a breathing attachment of some sort is highly recommended......

Be sure and pray a lot before entering......Mr.Shotgun is one of the milder beasties ensconced therein.

(snip)

besides.....how much is gonna be left when he goes into the marsh?......Hmmmmmmm?

now, now...we're not MONSTEROUS over there at the Marsh...just misunderstood.

True, the moderation tends to be more....Laisse fare? But is that such a bad thing in the marketplace of ideas?

Posters at the Marsh.prosoundweb.com "recording 101" forum are treated with sympathy and respect, regardless of how "fresh" and "original" their thinking is.

At our house, newbies are a savoury, exquisite delicacy, to be enjoyed "neat" or else au jous. We let the other forums do the hickory smoking and barbequeing.

dwoz

So, anyway, haven't been here in a while. its turned into quite a nice little joint! Shaky start, but its ripened quite nicely.

buttachunk wrote:

dynamics/dynamic range is the difference between the loudest and quietest signal as a relative measure,

Go back and read what you said. Hint: It wasn't quietest signal, it was silent.

Next.

Oh, and speaking of "newbies", DaveDog...when did you sign up here at Recording.org?

:-)

dwoz

TheRealShotgun wrote:

Well, I tried to PM ya, JP my man, but PMing is apparently a feature I'm not qualified to operate.

There's a couple of forums there that would be a good fit for you. Either Recording101 or EnGoia Recording would be my first picks. The Guitar forum being a close second.

Tell them I sent you.

Yer buddy,

Shotgun

You know, Shotgun, at first I thought you might have been cool with your subtle patriot 'pats on the back'. But in reality, I honestly find it even more quite odd how people such as yourself like to think your not insulting a person such as myself in the slightest ioda by lowering me to a "101" level of legitimacy. For one, let me clue you in.... "Yer buddy" is a dead giveaway. Come on, you can do better than that! Second, nobody is my "buddy" and I ain't "your man" since i'm not a homo. Third, you can't kid a kidder. Mull it over. As for PM'ing me, i've posted my e-mail address several times stating i'm not a RO "club" member.

buttachunk wrote: dynamics does not automatically mean compressed, as you may be trying to cleverly incinuate.

What? Huh? Why would I incinuate that? It doesn't even make any sense.

buttachunk wrote: Here is my translation of what JP22 is saying about restoring lost dynamics;

dynamics being defined as the difference between loud and silent.

let's say a compressor rolls off -3db at 20khz on a track. Adding corrective eq frequency-selectively restores the lost dynamics , because now that dynamic range is restored by the corrective EQ in the affected frequencies (if the track was -5db at 1k, but -8db at 20khz, and the noise floor was -65db, then the dynamics (as defined above) at 20khz are literally restored by the EQ and not by the compressor).

Does anyone understand how a de-esser works ? It's a frequency-selective dynamics control. EQ is half of the equasion-- for those who laugh at JP22, try de-essing with only a compressor and no eq in the sidechain (not a plugin or sissy de-esser, but a real manual de-essing sidechain).

Bloody brilliant!

Jp22, you are my hero for coming up with this, buttachunk, you are my hero for explaining it to me.

I have an old guitar wave file which has been over distorted to the point of being a block (aka, overcompressed), and I'm gonna try restoring it tonight using that technique. Anybody happen to know the typical frequency ranges of an electric guitar?

OMFG!!!

They're BREEDING!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

I'm no longer worried about Bird-Flu!!!

buttachunk wrote: Here is my translation of what JP22 is saying about restoring lost dynamics;

dynamics being defined as the difference between loud and silent.

let's say a compressor rolls off -3db at 20khz on a track. Adding corrective eq frequency-selectively restores the lost dynamics , because now that dynamic range is restored by the corrective EQ in the affected frequencies (if the track was -5db at 1k, but -8db at 20khz, and the noise floor was -65db, then the dynamics (as defined above) at 20khz are literally restored by the EQ and not by the compressor).

.... and the EQ brings up the noise floor at the freqs it's boosting too. or had you missed that?

Does anyone understand how a de-esser works ? It's a frequency-selective dynamics control. EQ is half of the equasion-- for those who laugh at JP22, try de-essing with only a compressor and no eq in the sidechain (not a plugin or sissy de-esser, but a real manual de-essing sidechain).

The EQ only shapes which part of the audio spectrum that the compressor works on. It's still only compression/expansion that alters dynamic range.

I love these peeps who half-understand something.

Thansk again to the peeps at Cubase.net who linked me to this thread.

Fuck the prozac. This stuff's a great cure for depression!!

MUWAHAHAHA :D :D :D :D

Guitar Freqqensee'z:

Varies from Twang, Through waaaaaA, to eeeeeeeeeekkKKK wheeeeeeeeee.

I think

/g

Jp22 wrote: [quote=TheRealShotgun]

Well, I tried to PM ya, JP my man, but PMing is apparently a feature I'm not qualified to operate.

There's a couple of forums there that would be a good fit for you. Either Recording101 or EnGoia Recording would be my first picks. The Guitar forum being a close second.

Tell them I sent you.

Yer buddy,

Shotgun

You know, Shotgun, at first I thought you might have been cool with your subtle patriot 'pats on the back'. But in reality, I honestly find it even more quite odd how people such as yourself like to think your not insulting a person such as myself in the slightest ioda by lowering me to a "101" level of legitimacy. For one, let me clue you in.... "Yer buddy" is a dead giveaway. Come on, you can do better than that! For one, nobody is my "buddy". Second, you can't kid a kidder. Now, mull it over. As for PM'ing me, i've posted my e-mail address several times stating i'm not a RO "club" member.

Actually, Jp22, Shotgun is not being disengenuous. The "101" forum is all about MENTORING...passing the torch from those who have walked the road, to those who will soon walk it.

Everyone has something to learn, and everything has something to teach. In any given situation, you will be the student OR the teacher. One need not be some kind of jedi master to be a teacher...you simply need to have taken ONE STEP FARTHER than the one you would teach.

In fact, its far better to learn from someone closer to your level, because the chance that the student and teacher will be inhabiting the same context is much higher.

As the Moderator of the Recording 101 forum at the marsh, I echo Shotgun's invite. Trust me when I say that the only reason its called the "101" forum is because the flame-throwers are checked at the door, so it tends to be more friendly to those who ask "challenging" questions.

dwoz

And to the moderators of Recording.org, I certainly extend the invite to you as well...we're all here for the same reason, after all.

Paul Woodlock wrote: OMFG!!!

They're BREEDING!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:

Hahahaha.

:lol:

I dunno, me thinks JP is Sybil-izing :shock:

Jp22 wrote:
I'm curious, how many people in their right mind do you really think would download plugins with the prefix "beta" and the suffix "bugs" in it?

Some. But then, they're smart. So you better stay away from that bunch of loevely plugins.

Dark Fader wrote: [quote=Paul Woodlock]

JP22 is the new messiah, he has shown us the way, lets all use our eqs to restore the dynamic equilibrium of the world!

I'm Jp22 and so is my wife!!

:lol:

:)

He's not the messiah! He's a very naughty boy!!! ;)

JP -

I don't think you are a troll because i searched your posts, and i found that you actually had earlier, almost as ignorant posts.

How many people does it take to convince you that you are wrong? How many articles posted in here explaining dynamics and eq does it take to convince you?

There are people in here who have recorded hit records, people who have gone to school and studied these things for years and years, and you so boldly discredit them.

You, who have not posted any details about your recording setup. You, who have not posted any credentials about your educational expertise.

There are other sites with threads about this thread talking about what a complete moron you are. If you are truely a real person with the capacity to think, SUCK IT UP AND ADMIT YOUR WRONG. 70,000 views can't be wrong. Jeeeeeesus.

steve

Jp22 wrote: But in reality, I honestly find it even more quite odd how people such as yourself like to think your not insulting a person such as myself in the slightest ioda by lowering me to a "101" level of legitimacy.

If you want to play with the bigger kids, head straight into the heart of the Womb, you may find the guys there are a bit more on your level - you don't get the same bull**** that appears elsewhere around here...

Everyone's entitled to their opinions, and I find Marsh and the RAP crowd have a much better respect for the pro and serious home amateur level than the more entry-level places...

See ya over there - once you've gone you may not want to come back...

"Jp22"

Nope. Actually, i've never even heard of the word "Anechoic" before. It sounds like someone is gonna get an enema or something.

Go directly to:

http://www.rane.com/digi-dic.html

Do not pass go
Do not collect $200

:roll:

8)

HiYA dwoz and all you folks from the Marsh.(I'm a member there also! As well as many other places)...

As is well known throughout the recording world galaxy of the internet forums, your place has a real reputation for uhhh...certain reactionary behaviors...yeah thats it....reactionary.....

Now I know this doesnt apply to 101 and the Guitar forum per-say, so I'll take your offer as a legitimate one.

Not sure how JP sees it.........

Just throwing a bit of the ole comedy atcha boys....Really I'm quite glad to see ya over here.....Makes for a more neighborly community.

As an answer to DWOZ's question, I've been here since the start or close to it....since before there was a slutz site...before there was a marsh.....you know, quite a while.

I'll visit you sometime and wave......

Davedog wrote: HiYA dwoz and all you folks from the Marsh.(I'm a member there also! As well as many other places)...

As an answer to DWOZ's question, I've been here since the start or close to it....since before there was a slutz site...before there was a marsh.....you know, quite a while.

I'll visit you sometime and wave......

Heck, I was just noticing what your "joined" date here was...and realized you were "one of the newbies" :-)

...back when I joined Recording.org, we had to post in Morse Code. You kids today think you have it tough...

dwoz

I am currently wrapping up my BM with an emphasis in technology, and we have an online discussion forum. I posted a link to this thred, and hear is what my professor said:

"Jp22 is a freakin' moron. Everybody, read this thread and DON'T BE THAT GUY!"

Dr. Honour

I think I need to get JP22 to come to my school for a seminar so we can learn how things are really done.

megajoe wrote: I am currently wrapping up my BM with an emphasis in technology,...

What an absolutely intriguing example of too much information.

I've never heard such an elaborate analogy for "polishing a turd".

dwoz

JP22 walked into the bar & said "wanna hear a great joke about sound engineers?"

The bartender says " Um..you might want to be careful with that. See that guy over there? He's from Sony in Paris. See the guy with al lthe gang tatoos and the funny foil hat? He's an engineer from LA, and the big guy with the grumpy face is Jorg. He's an engineer from Liverpool...now, are you sure you want to tell your joke?"

JP22 sits and thinks for a second, and then replies "No, not really. I don't want to have to explain it 3 times."

:-)

Go gearslutz!

This is cheap, but I wanted to be a part of history. (Joined tonight)
I think this thread has inspired so many responses because we all have known and/or played in a band/engineered someone like JP.
I personally thrive on the tid-bits that the professionals give us, the audacity of Jp22 makes me laugh and angry at once.

A simple troll would have tucked his tail between his legs, I await the moderators to pull back the curtain......

Cucco wrote: However, when you add an eq at say 1kHz, you now raise the signal AS WELL AS THE NOISE floor. Meaning, if you had approx 45 dB of dynamics and you raise 1kHz by 3 dB, you've raised both the signal AND the noise floor by 3 dB at 1 kHz. Therefore, you've still kept the dynamic range at 45 dB.

You are assuming additive EQ. If you cut the mids and lows, you ARE lowering their dynamic range, no question. Roll -18db out of everything below 1khz sometime and tell me that the dynamics are unafffected below 1khz...

Let me put this the easy way;

If dynamics are able to be controlled by gain

and an eq is frequency-selective gain control

then an an eq is a frequency-selective way to control dynamics.

(yes in a limited way-- I'm not saying that you can uncompress anything, but you CAN affect dynamics (frequency-selectively) with an EQ, no doubt. now please, no one freak out or get confrontational about this,, just take a deep breath and let this sink in...)

arke wrote: I have an old guitar wave file which has been over distorted to the point of being a block (aka, overcompressed), and I'm gonna try restoring it tonight using that technique. Anybody happen to know the typical frequency ranges of an electric guitar?

Did i say it could uncompress anything ? No I didn't, so why assume that and be offensive about it, smart guy ?

I said that EQs can be used to frequency-selectively process dynamics-- that is what a de-esser does. Don't confuse yourself by getting so emotional and confrontational about it next time big boy :-?

Paul Woodlock wrote: .... and the EQ brings up the noise floor at the freqs it's boosting too. or had you missed that?

and EQs can also be used to SUBTRACT as well, or had you missed that ?

Paul Woodlock wrote:
I love these peeps who half-understand something.

You must love your mirror... :shock: See above.

buttachunk wrote: If you cut the mids and lows, you ARE lowering their dynamic range, no question. Roll -18db out of everything below 1khz sometime and tell me that the dynamics are still present below 1khz...

Let me put this the easy way;

Dude, come on, please tell me you're joking?

buttachunk wrote: [quote=Cucco]However, when you add an eq at say 1kHz, you now raise the signal AS WELL AS THE NOISE floor. Meaning, if you had approx 45 dB of dynamics and you raise 1kHz by 3 dB, you've raised both the signal AND the noise floor by 3 dB at 1 kHz. Therefore, you've still kept the dynamic range at 45 dB.

You are assuming additive EQ. If you cut the mids and lows, you ARE lowering their dynamic range, no question. Roll -18db out of everything below 1khz sometime and tell me that the dynamics are still present below 1khz...

Let me put this the easy way;

If dynamics are able to be controlled by gain

and an eq is frequency-selective gain control

then an an eq is a frequency-selective way to control dynamics.

(yes in a limited way-- I'm not saying that you can uncompress anything, but you CAN affect dynamics (frequency-selectively) with an EQ, no doubt. now please, no one freak out or get confrontational about this,, just take a deep breath and let this sink in...)

Thank God you don't work at a studio.

JP_Is_God wrote: Dude, come on, please tell me you're joking?

come on, note the edit;

the dynamics are unquestionably affected when you roll -18db out of everything below 1khz. if you EQ those frequencies back (+18db) you are raising the noisefloor of the affected frequencies.

Try it for yourself with analog EQs. Try a shelf EQ for the high end, -18db everything above 5k. Then follow with another EQ boosting +18db at the same frequencies. Hear that noise ? That's called reduced dynamic range.

Michael Fossenkemper wrote:
Thank God you don't work at a studio.

Now why would you be "smart" enough to assume that ?

Let me explain it even more simply, because I'm losing many of you;

simply; dynamic range is the difference between loud and relative silence

if you subtract a frequency range from a signal, the difference between loud and soft IS DIFFERENT for those frequencies.

I can't make it any simpler... don't assume I'm saying you can uncompress anything ,, I am just saying you CAN use EQs to affect dynamic range.

Intuition