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LOL... what's up with the levels on the 2-Bus?

I use VCC a lot. I can't really tell if it sounds like a real console, but it definitely does something to the sound that I like.

That's pretty much what I'm hearing from others I've asked, Ouzo. I suppose that it doesn't matter exactly what it does, if you like what it's doing, and as long as it isn't harming the overall sonics with latency or phasing issues, as so many processors out there in "modeling land" can do.

I've spoken with colleagues who have either tried it out - or who have liked it enough to purchase it - and all but one of them are saying that they like it, but they are also quick to mention that the effect is pretty subtle - in terms of what it does, but - again with the exception of just one person - they do in fact like what it does - that it provides a certain pleasing overall "glue"... and enough of a difference to where they do like to use it, both on individual channels, sub-buses, and the Master 2-bus as well.

In terms of which "console" they like best, opinions vary widely across the board with the people I have asked. Several love the "4000" - which is intended to provide modelling, and a response and sound similar to an SSL G Series, others prefer the "Classic" Neve setting, and yet, a few swear by the Trident model.

No one I have spoken with - at least yet, anyway - has seemed to like the "RCA/Tube" Modeling, and only one of them likes the "API" setting. I would think that - like any processing plug - the choices and settings would be largely dependent on what the project calls for, and within the context of the individual song or performance. Personally, I would think that choosing just one model over another all the time would be limiting... but of course, that's all subject on whether I would even like the modeling to begin with.

I can't do a trial with any Slate stuff, because they require a USB Dongle/key - even for trials - and I don't have one - the reason for this being that none of my other plugs requires that type of authorization/key method.
Everything I've purchased in the past has been available for fully-functioning trial use (usually 30 days) without a key/dongle, and unlocked by providing an authorization code that I've received by registering the plug/ VSTi on-line.

Truthfully, I'm still on the fence with this processor. And, while I certainly appreciate those who have given their opinions/input, until I can actually hear it for myself, and in the context of what I'm working on, I can't make a decision.

;)

d.

If you like you could send me a track or a mix and I will bounce them with the different models.
Though the effect will be really subtle.

They recommend to use the channel plugin on every channel and the bus plugin on the master bus or submix buses. You will then definitely hear the difference when you bypass them.

That's very kind of you to offer. And I'm going to take you up on that after the Holiday smoke clears. ;)

Can you PM me your email address?

Umm... how can you send a PM?!? I can't find a button or link.

good song ... good performance too ..... sorta like you could do almost anything to it and it's still listenable. how much for this gem? (EDIT: $300 w/ iLok)

@Donny, why the resistance on the "dongle issue"?

No resistance, really... I just don't have any other processors or VSTi's that require one, so it hasn't really been tops on my list of priorities of things to buy. With the exception of the Slate stuff that I'm looking at, I don't have any other need for one; and I'm not nuts about running out an paying $40 for one to simply try a program.

DonnyThompson, post: 421540, member: 46114 wrote: That's very kind of you to offer. And I'm going to take you up on that after the Holiday smoke clears. ;)

Can you PM me your email address?

ouzo77, post: 421541, member: 27807 wrote: Umm... how can you send a PM?!? I can't find a button or link.

Never mind. Just visit my website. There's an e-mail address.

click on his icon ... a window will drop ... click on "start a conversation"....

Kurt Foster, post: 421552, member: 7836 wrote: click on his icon ... a window will drop ... click on "start a conversation"....

Oh, that's the PM function? I thought it's some kind of discussion board. Thanks.

ouzo77, post: 421535, member: 27807 wrote: I use VCC a lot. I can't really tell if it sounds like a real console, but it definitely does something to the sound that I like.

For fun conversation, what does a real console sound like?
I own four consoles now and have owned a lot over my 57 years and they all do the same basic things. The main difference I hear between them all is crap preamps or truer clarity. The cheaper ones simply sound like a cheap preamp and the best ones never breakup and are pristine in every way.
To me, its pretty simple figuring our what parts you need on them and what can be emulated. Between a DAW and console, its a no brainer. I don't see the point in adding a bunch of analog noise and crosstalk when your DAW does the sonics better for thousands less and it comes with automation too ;) If we understand how the basic console works, its pretty easy to emulate most of it better via a few really simply process ITB or, through a simple hybrid approach.
Bit distortion or transformer distortion, take your pick.

for this discussion, let's agree that "console"means a large format and hi volt rails. we can call the rest mixers.

Neve = console

Mackie = mixer.

i think of "consoles" as something huge and most the time with a patch bay built in. a place where all roads meet in the studio.

Nice one Kurt,

I think of a DAW, where all things meet and exchange globally. I see the traditional console as an old telephone/ switchboard. Its pretty easy to emulate that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_exchange

audiokid, post: 421565, member: 1 wrote: ...... I see the traditional console as an old telephone/ switchboard. Its pretty easy to emulate that.

modern audio gear is rooted in military telephone and radio tech. i like patch bays. i don't like wiring them but once they are set up i love working with them.

no matter how many advances come along, (and i see another 6 years or so until things start slowing down) i see no reason t abandon older gear and techniques. i'm not against learning new ways to do things, or some kind of Luddite but i don't think throwing the baby out with the bath water is the way either.

i would rather be working in a facility that afforded all options rather than one that was limited to an itb rig in a one room studio.

daw / analog tape / console / classic and new outboard / modern monitoring and NS10's .... full patch bay , iso booths and large live / dead rooms ... they're all relevant and the advent of any new technology shouldn't preclude use as long as the gear can perform within operational specification.

indeed.

Analog vs Digital vs image vs emulation vs film vs HD vs radio vs internet vs marketing vs web. I think we are constantly confusing all these terms.
The term “picturesque” needs to be understood in relationship to two other aesthetic ideals: the beautiful and the sublime.

The entire audio industry is no different than painting a picture and marketing it. We have the image and learn the way to paint it and display it to others. If we are lucky, we survive somehow doing what we love. A Robert Bateman wolf or Claude Lorrain landscape can both be captured on a computer, and I know none of us are saying an analog camera is better than a digital now?

If I use photoshop plugins, it pretty easy to take a Bateman picture and use a sepia plugin to create the most realistic emulation of a Bateman wolf , to took like it was done 400 years ago. Its pretty hard to do the opposite though! So here is where I stand.
I mean, its impossible to take a old watercolour and emulate it too look like it was done by Robert Bateman so why are we investing in backwards technology anymore. Choice only, certainly not anything more.

Clear studies tell me to tell the student, use the best tracking to capture the best you can and once itb, stay itb.

A year ago I could have sold some analog gear for 20% more. I'm running as fast as I can to dump what is no longer needed because I have realized through study, it isn't the console that made my picture, it is me and the source.

I still see hybrid as the ultimate sonic solution, but only as a router and bridge for capture and monitoring around a DAW which = photoshop. The mass of what a console did for mixing and mastering can be emulated yielding superior results at a fraction of the costs of yesteryear.

Spectral Emulation technology is going to explode. If we are only talking emulation here, noise and transient smear caused by even the most expensive analog gear isn't something we need in the way of the path to the DAW.

I currently use Samplitude's analog modeling and I like it a lot. I don't use those tools all the time, but there are certain projects where I like the sound of that processing. I don't see any difference between what Samplitude is doing with their analog modeling, and Slate doing the same thing, if I like the way it sounds. I'm not against "going backwards" if that's the desired effect I am after at the time.

I'm not disagreeing, but for the kids reading, we would only go "backwards" because we didn't see it possible forward per-say, right?
Being said, I would love to know how much of a percentage is spent on the gui and function in comparison to actual emulation of the hardware. I would love to know what they are actually coding in too. I mean, what does a large format console sound like? If that isn't such BS. I suppose they are taking some sort of sonic picture from various stages of the path, then tossing in their standard noise and bleed templates, a gui and off to marketing.

This is a bit off topic but I'm sure we will appreciate it.

No wonder music and artistic direction is so "different" in comparison to the last century. When we had a simple console and non of this editing ability, we focused on talent and capture. Today, I wonder how much of our process is taken up by a mouse getting the technology gluing. Its all so distracting but ironically creating a new industry around styles of music. As much as I feel I have a really solid grasp on things today, the added technology we have at our disposal has really taken the love out of music for me. On one hand, I know where its going and I definitely would never buy a traditional console even if I was a billionaire. They really don't sound better and are imho, a complete step backwards in everything I know today. But, I so miss how innocent it all was. How organic it was and what we all focused on back in the beginning years for me. Raw Talent = hurry, get the tape rolling :cool: comes to mind over and over to me.

I know it was the music going through the console that was special. They don't make us like that anymore. No one will ever emulate me and the fun times I had making music before all this.

I worked for a guy this week who was supper cool on music. We talked for hours yesterday, discussing the songs/ the bands he and his buddies listen to. He is about 25 years younger than me. He was so open minded and understood what I know about music but none of it mattered because he and his friends love electronic music. The concerts they go to are standing room only.

There is a sound they hear that just isn't in a console. They are using electronics to create music which isn't possible without a DAW.

Like I said, I don't know if VCC (or any other similar plugin) sounds like a real console. But when it does alter the sound in a way I like and brings my mixes a bit closer to the sound of my favorite recordings, then I will use it.
Though I would appreciate if they would let me switch off the noise in the next update...

Btw, today is the last day you can get the RC Tube channel of the VCC plugin with an iLok2 for 39$. Even though it may not be the best of the emulated consoles it is definitely worth the 39$.

ouzo77, post: 421692, member: 27807 wrote: Though I would appreciate if they would let me switch off the noise in the next update

what does this mean, can you explain more, thanks! ?

audiokid, post: 421693, member: 1 wrote: what does this mean, can you explain more, thanks! ?

They also emulated the noise of the consoles. Normally you wouldn't really hear it, but when used on many tracks and with heavy compression you get a nice noise floor. ;-)

I'm just learning about this.
Is it bit distortion or a sample that is in the background and can you control the amount of noise? When you use it, do you put it on a Aux bus or on the track?

audiokid, post: 421695, member: 1 wrote: I'm just learning about this.
Is it bit distortion or a sample that is in the background and can you control the amount of noise? When you use it, do you put it on a Aux bus or on the track?

It's basically hiss. Sounds quite analog! ;-) I don't know if it's a sample or if it's synthesized.
You can't control the amount but there's an auto mute function which mutes the hiss when no signal goes through the plugin.

There are two seperate plugins – one channel version that emulates the "anomalies" of one channel of the console and a mixbus version that introduces crosstalk and other things.
They recommend putting the channel plugin on the first insert of every channel of your project and the mixbus plugin on auxbuses and/or the master bus.

Thanks. I've been adding synths like this, busing out and blending to taste. Sometimes I use low freq sawtooth underneath a track, works excellent in creating a nice grit for the upper freq Vox. Sounds pretty cool and unique. I don't get any transient smear on the original track. Bit distortion effects come with Samplitude, its pretty cool too.

Have you tested how it translates your imaging on the master bus? Mono it? Does it have to be part of a track or can it be used like a delay or reverb effect?

audiokid, post: 421697, member: 1 wrote: Thanks. I've been adding synths like this, busing out and blending to taste. Sometimes I use low freq sawtooth underneath a track, works excellent in creating a nice grit for the upper freq Vox. Sounds pretty cool and unique. I don't get any transient smear on the original track. Bit distortion effects come with Samplitude, its pretty cool too.

Have you tested how it translates your imaging on the master bus? Mono it? Does it have to be part of a track or can it be used like a delay or reverb effect?

I think it's basically more a blend of saturation, eq and some psycho-acoustic enhancements.
Somehow it is a subtle effect that brings some details to the front but also enhances the spatial image of the mix.
There doesn't seem to be any phase problems like cancelling, though I'm sure it does something to the phases. It's hard to tell. It really depends on the material your sending though.

Thanks! I appreciate your time here. Always! (y)

You're welcome. I always hope I can give something back for everything I've learned here.

I've come to the conclusion - and agree with Ouzo - that regardless of what a processor claims to be an emulation of, doesn't mean necessarily mean that it's good - but... neither does it mean that it' s bad either.

If a certain processor sounds good on what you are working on at the time, and as long as it doesn't damage the sonics, then that's all that matters.... at least to me.

For example, I'm generally not a fan of stereo enhancers. But recently, while working on a track, I decided to add a stereo widener plug to an acoustic guitar track, and I added just a touch of the effect, and it worked... not only that, it sounded great.

Now, whether or not this plug was meant to be an exact emulation of a particular device or not didn't matter to me in that context. All I cared about was how it sounded, and the result it provided.

So, as far as the Slate console emulations, maybe they aren't the same as using a real channel strip - but as Ouzo says, if what it does sounds good, what does it matter?