For parts, I LOVE Newegg.com. They have great service, quick shipping, and their prices will always be within 5% or so of the lowest price. One stop shopping. I built 2 PC's and upgraded 2 others all from NewEgg.

:cool:

I was going to build my own last fall and ran into this company. This guy built me a killer PC. I use it everyday all day pretty much. No problems. http://www.musicalcomputers.com/ He even installed my motu 24/ IO that I supplied and tested it for two days for me at no charge. Nothing on it but the OS and the drivers it needed. Nice guy too.

Wow, that newegg is pretty cool. Here's what I got so far. I found http://www.pugetsystems.com, and put together the following system for about $1225:

http://www.pugetsystems.com/configure.php?parts=447,467,576,2265,2122,189,4529,152,95,96,97,372,1882,123,533,354

Then I checked out newegg and put together a slightly better system for just under a grand:

RAIDMAX Virgo "Silence" Mid-Tower Case with 420W Power Supply, Model "811PP"
SONY Black 52x32x52 Internal IDE CD-RW Drive W/ CD Maker Software, Model CRX230ED-B2
Masscool 70mm Cooling CPU Fan For Pentium4 3.2GHz, Model "9T370B1M3"
Seagate 120GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model ST3120026A
SAMSUNG 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model SP0802N
Logitech Cordless MX Duo USB/ PS/2 104keys
Mushkin Basic Green 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-2700
ASUS "P4P800 SE" i865PE Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU
Intel Pentium 4/ 3.0E GHz 800MHz FSB, 1MB L2 Cache, Hyper Threading Technology
Microsoft Windows XP Professional With Service Pack 2
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 7000(RADEON VE) Video Card, 64MB DDR, 64-bit, TV-Out, 4X AGP

http://www.musicalcomputers.com looks cool, but as an electronics tech I guess I'm willing to risk putting it together myself for a pretty decent improvement in price. Just gotta do some reseach now on compatability (anyone see anything glaring in the above, let me know)...

Thanks for your input! I'll post back when I get this final...

RR

I should add that I'm actually getting three of the 512 sticks, for 1.5 gigs, and that I already have an EMU 1212.

can't wait...

My only issue with your list is that Samsung HDD. I would ditch it and go with either Maxtor, Seagate or Western Digital. Those are the only 3 I recommend for serious work. It should be a very nice machine when you're done, nice job.

I'd change the memory from PC2700 to PC3200 or DDR400. This is only fractionally more expensive than the DDR333 memory but will fulfill the full potential of the Intel Pentium 4's 800Mhz FSB in dual channel mode.

Yeah, I did some more research (>20 hours!) online and asking a couple of friends and I decided to go with the WD HD and the PC3200. I almost went with a motherboard with built in video, but I like the idea of the flexibility of the AGP slot... Here's probably pretty close to my final list:

ROUND, 12-Inch, True ATA133/100, IDE Cable, 2-Head ( BLUE )
COOLMAX Floppy 12" Round Cable Transparent Yellow -RETAIL
ANTEC Life Style Series Black Case With 380W Power Supply, Model "SONATA"
Sony Internal 16X DVD+/-RW / Double Layer Drive Black, Model DW-D22A-B2, OEM
SONY Black 1.44MB 3.5inch Floppy Disk Drive, Model MPF920, OEM
Western Digital 200GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD2000JD, OEM Drive Only
Logitech Cordless Comfort Duo BLACK USB/ PS/2 105keys -RETAIL
2 X Mushkin 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 - Retail
NESO PIXO A700 17" LCD Monitor with Speakers -RETAIL
ASUS "P4P800 SE" i865PE Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL
TRIPPLITE 10 outlets Surge suppressor, Model "TLP1008TEL" -RETAIL
Intel Pentium 4/ 3.0E GHz 800MHz FSB, 1MB L2 Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail
Microsoft Windows XP Professional With Service Pack 2 -OEM
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 7000(RADEON VE) Video Card, 64MB DDR, 64-bit, TV-Out, 4X AGP -BULK

This all for 1205.47 total (no shipping). I priced similar systems at Dell and that Puget place (see above) and they both came out right around 1650-1700! Plus, they throw all sorts of crap on there I don't need, like WiFi and 6 mo free AOhelL and chit. Build your own, it's the way to go :) Now I just have to not screw this up... Where's that static wriststrap....

RR

The only thing I would suggest is to drop the XP Pro and go with XP Home. You'll save $100 and you can put that into another SATA hard drive (small like 80 GB) for your DAW software and keep the 200 GB drive for storing your music. Your system will perform better with 2 drives and you'll get more mileage out of the 200.

Everything else looks great, Have fun with it!

Looks like a good system there, roirat. Big_D and Blade pointed you in the right direction! You'll have a screamer when you are done!

One thing - You may want the future expandability of using 2 CRT monitors as an "Extended Desktop" - Maybe something like this: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-240-001&depa=1 . I have an older Radeon 9200 Pro 128MB with a VGA and an S-Video out (no DVI - just like the one you are looking at), and the S-Video out is so low-res, you really can't use it for anything but maybe some large meters. You can't read the computer text on the S-Video out, but it is OK for watching DVD's on a TV, etc.

Just something that I wish I considered when I bought my video card. Extended Desktop is a HUGE benefit for Audio Apps IMO (but only if you can read the graphics on the 2nd monitor!).

:cool:

yeah, like a console view on one and a track view on the other? I've used multiple desktops before with unix, but not windows. can you display two views of the same app on different screens? For instance, there is a console view in cakewalk homestudio that is useful, and of course the track view. Is it possible to display both at the same time on different screens with only one iteration of the application running? Or maybe you can only display the interfaces of different aps/plugs, one screen per program? Not sure how this works, but it does sound useful. Think I'll go with the Matrox G450, that one seems popular and has what I need for not too much more cash. Don't think I'll be needing the digital outputs of the G550...

Anyone ever heard of a switch that would let me go from one computer to the other for one monitor so I can use one for my old "everything else" PC?

Thanks for all the input guys.

RR

The Extended Desktop usually allows one application to span the entire width of both monitors. You can have the console view on one screen, and the track view on the other - or whatever you want.

The Matrox should be fine for your application.

A "KVM" switch is what you want for using a central Keyboard VGA and Mouse with 2 or more computers. There are all kinds and all prices ranges out there...

I bet you can't wait to get this booger, and put it together :D :D :D. PS - Get some GOOD thermal compound for your CPU Heatsink. I LOVE Arctic Silver 5. It really does drop CPU temps quite a bit (drastically in my case). Look into "Lapping" your heatsink as well. The mating surface of the heatsink will always have machining marks leftover, and wet-sanding these out with 1000 / 1500 / 2000 grit wet/dry makes another few degrees of difference. With these hot Prescott .90nm cores, we need all the cooling help we can get! This (in conjunction with the SLK-910 heatsink) also allowed me to run the CPU fan at 75% with 38*C idle temps on a 2.8E running at 3.01GHz (215MHz/860FSB overclock)!!!! NEVER gets above 50*C at full load and barely audible fanage (that is a full 20*C below its max rated temp and with a mild overclock!). This P4 should live a long, happy life :). Proper Case Ventillation is also critical - as is the "Fresh Air Tunnel" for the P4's Fan. OK - Enough about cooling already! :roll:

:cool:

yeah, i'm gonna hork some of the thermal paste from my work. that's a good idea about trueing up the surface of the heatsink. the thinner the layer of the compound, the better.

i can't wait, you're right! but the only shipping service here is USPS priority mail, and that takes three weeks or more :( Guess I better grip up and get out the credit card tonight!

RR

I have been going through the exact same process ie, trying to find a PC builder I liked, and in the end building my own. The only thing I notice about your system is that I've heard P4s are still a bit unstable with protools (although many pro builders use it...I suspect it's about the $$$ but I could be wrong). I used AMD athlon 2500+ and an Asus A7V600-x mobo with a Zalman 700 cu cooler. Haven't quite got it running yet, but I'm sure as hell having fun! Installed in the sonata case...very good choice! :D The whole system cost me about $950 and here it is!

2 x 80G WD IDE drives
CDRW 52x
2x 512 Kingston ram
Adaptec fireconnect 4300
Rosewill radeon 9200se v/card
The rest listed above.

Best of luck. Email me if you want to know how it comes out!!

Shaun
http://

Ah, all my stuff's finally here. I can't wait to put it together when I get home from work. Newegg ships fast, it even seems as though they managed to accelerate the military mail system out here, tho it was probably just lucky timing. Only problem was that the CD for my matrox vid card was smashed... they have downloadable drivers on their website, tho.

Now the only thing I'm waiting for is a new driver CD from E-mu. It seems I may have thrown out my 1212 driver CD thinking they had drivers available on their website, which turned out to be a mistake, as only PATCHES are available on their website. I called em tho, and they were cool, new CD with all the extra goodies on it for five bucks... But until it gets here I can't install my 1212... that's what I get for being a dumbass and throwing that CD away.

This is that jumping off point, rolling up the sleaves, "tab A into slot B" and hit the power button... sure hope I can turn this (rather expensive) pile of parts into a DAW.

Oh, yeah, and I splurged on Sonar (found it fer less than 250) and a pair of oktava mk012's...

"put... the credit card... DOWN!"

RR

It's Alive!!!!!

Okay, just to finish the story...

This thing went together no problem. Not a single error message or anthing! Doing the research pays off.

The only hiccup I had was when installing my E-mu 1212m. I had to try a second PCI slot because Patchmix couldn't find the card at first and then the mouse pointer quit moving. Moved to a different slot, re-installed, probem solved.

E-mu, by the way was great on the phone when I discovered I couldn't find my driver CD. They sent a new one to me right away for just five bucks or so. I just wish they had the drivers available for download on their website...

Now I'm just waiting for my KRKs and my copy of Sonar to get here, then I can really get started... until then, it's still homestudio and my little shelf stereo...

RR

Time for a new computer, time for an OSX based one.
Exit the troubles, exit the money loss, data loss, virus attacks and time loss.
Enter the professional circle, enter Apple.

This seems a spam, but it's the truth.

well nothing like being a little one sided.

Fact: OSX is more bloated than XP
Fact: OSX has issues with firewire (mac's own baby)
Fact: 2 drive limit imternally
Fact: Dual G5 has issues with UAD's
Fact: extreemly limited PCI slots
Fact: Nuendo /cubase runs better on a PC
Fact: Apple charges for every update to the OS to fix whats wrong
Fact: OSX crashes just as much as XP
Fact: they both get the job done
Fact: MAC costs more $ for less performance and limited upgrade ability.

but hey your right we should all be on OSX LOL

Scott
ADK

Another spamer paid by Bill Gates

ADK audio wrote: well nothing like being a little one sided.

Fact: OSX is more bloated than XP
FALSE: features are not air

Fact: OSX has issues with firewire (mac's own baby)
FALSE: Firewire on Windows machiines is weird, crashes often and is unstable, on OSX machines is very stable, compatible and never drives to crashes (anyway crashes are no more there on OSX unless you delete some system folder...

Fact: 2 drive limit imternally
FALSE: ???are you nuts? i run 3 x 120 GB + Superdrive all working soooo sweetly and i stell have space for a fourth HD

Fact: extreemly limited PCI slots
4 slots are few? for a computer featuring 2 Firewire400, 1 firewire800, 3 USB, Dual Monitor out, Ethernet, Modem, i think that 4 PCI slots are enough, one for VLAN, one for an HD video capturing card and what more?

Fact: Nuendo /cubase runs better on a PC
Of course, Steinberg is known to hire bad BSD coders. All other software runs better on Mac.

Fact: Apple charges for every update to the OS to fix whats wrong
Hi Bill. FALSE, Apple gives away all the tools u need from iWork to iLife, Mail, Safari, and OSX is super stable. Apple sells (for few bucks) only large updates, with tons of great new features, not to mention full security

Fact: OSX crashes just as much as XP
Almost satanic lie. OSX never never never crashes, unless you destroy the System folder, i.e. my Mac never crashes since i purchased it a pair of years ago, so i allow myself to say: SHUT UP!

Fact: they both get the job done
FALSE: I have a pair of fellows who had the wrong idea to switch to Windows: Now they are hiring people to make their Avid run, but it runs only for some weeks..., they had to buy 3 Machines, one for video, one for audio and one for porno surfing!. I do all that and more in the same single OSX machine. They ended spending more money and time and their work is not so refined due to lack of software features and too many nights spent trying to make their system work.. I have many fellows switching to Mac and they all say: I WILL NEVER GO BACK, there is a reason.

Fact: MAC costs more $ for less performance and limited upgrade ability.
FALSE: See above: Macs cost less fo the same features, stability, security and power, and....: they work! 100%, you don't need to hire people to make it run, Macs lifespan is longer and money gain is higher due to less problems and no time loss

Scott, stop listening to MS sellers, unless you are one of them.

ADK

i dont listen to M$ but yes i do sell it.

i listen in forums. particularly nuendo.
of those people who have owned both, still own both ,use both
is what i base my facts on.
ya know the non biased people.
what they post or tell me.

have you owned and used both side by side in a studio, on a daily basis?

guess what my windows systems i have here dont crash either.
unless you count a dead motherboard this week.

cant tell you how many people have called me back to say thank you for the increased power and workflow that i have now that i have switched.
speaking of video systems
read the next Video Systems mag next month. little article in there by Gary Eskow
former mac user

on doing just that! and how much better post work is on a dual opteron, vs mac.

fact is they both work, both get the job done and they both can have issues.
you pay more and get less
i pay less and get more.

Scott
ADK

ADK audio go on selling what you want but please we are not idiots and so don't try to tell lies all around the web.

really?

what do you call this?

Time for a new computer, time for an OSX based one.
Exit the troubles, exit the money loss, data loss, virus attacks and time loss.
Enter the professional circle, enter Apple.

This seems a spam, but it's the truth

Bias is born out of ignorance

and thats about the most bias statement you can make.

at least i dont have a fear of saying both work!

Scott
ADK

Someday wrote: Time for a new computer, time for an OSX based one.
Exit the troubles, exit the money loss, data loss, virus attacks and time loss.
Enter the professional circle, enter Apple.

This seems a spam, but it's the truth.

That statement is utter crap. Is that what the Apple re-seller told you?

LMAO :lol:

I've seen too many victims of the windows creativity killer.

Ok, no need ot go flaming both sides. I say go with what you feel comfortable using. I am a PC user and won't use a MAC so that limits my optiosn and may be a stubborn view but it is what i am comfortable with. People have successfully made music using BOTH platforms.

Time for a new computer, time for an OSX based one.
Exit the troubles, exit the money loss, data loss, virus attacks and time loss.
Enter the professional circle, enter Apple.

Another spamer paid by Bill Gates

ADK audio go on selling what you want but please we are not idiots and so don't try to tell lies all around the web.

I've seen too many victims of the windows creativity killer.

Okay now who's the advertising mouthpeice here?

This crap reads like a Steve Jobs press release.

Seriously, if you don't work in Apple's Marketing Dept. you should.

Of course, Steinberg is known to hire bad BSD coders. All other software runs better on Mac.

So it's a Steinberg conspiracy right or do you work in HR for Steinberg. Have you sat next to one of these programers or compiled their work. Please enlighten us with more inside information on the bad coders at Steinberg. Perhaps you could also elaborate on how all other software runs better on a MAC, I'm dying to hear this.

Apple sells (for few bucks) only large updates, with tons of great new features, not to mention full security

So you think Mac's are more secure than PC's? Well sport their not they just don't get attacked as often because there are so few of them out there. HINT, Virus writers aim for the largest audience PC's, but Hackers will break into any box. If you had any knowledge of computer security you would have known this.

FALSE: I have a pair of fellows who had the wrong idea to switch to Windows: Now they are hiring people to make their Avid run, but it runs only for some weeks..., they had to buy 3 Machines, one for video, one for audio and one for porno surfing!. I do all that and more in the same single OSX machine. They ended spending more money and time and their work is not so refined due to lack of software features and too many nights spent trying to make their system work.. I have many fellows switching to Mac and they all say: I WILL NEVER GO BACK, there is a reason.

This is so stupid I'm not even going to respond except to say thousands of people (including me) run audio and video on the same machine (PC), with no problems at all. So it must be your pinhead friends.

Fact: MAC costs more $ for less performance and limited upgrade ability.
FALSE: See above: Macs cost less fo the same features, stability, security and power, and....: they work! 100%, you don't need to hire people to make it run, Macs lifespan is longer and money gain is higher due to less problems and no time loss

Where do you get this stuff. This is your biggest lie yet.

Look it's clear you have an agenda, Sorry it's not going to fly here. You obviously posess very little computer knowledge but for some reason think you can dupe others into believing this pile of horsecrap you present as evidence. If you really have something ie, valid real world numbers please present them to us we would love to see them.

As for everyone else, as has been said here many times before buy what you like and are most comfortable with. If it fits your needs and budget that's what matters most.

Come on, guys. This was a perfectly informative thread until this nonsense started. I didn't read any of what you guys were saying, but it's a childish, VERY tired argument at this point. It simply comes down to preference. THAT'S ALL. It doesn't make anyone wrong for liking Mac's, it doesn't make the other guy wrong for liking PC's. It just means that we all have our own distinct preferences. I definitely have mine, but it doesn't matter a single bit at the end of the day. Whaddaya say let's put this thread back on topic, mmkay?

Big_D(onut)

No no nooooooo! I'm bored to hear such CRAP!

OS X is more secure because it has a more secure architecture, not because it's less attacked.
Go see in the net the tests results with OSX, Linux and Windows submitted to massive attacks, and see how windows was more secure than Linux(!) and OSX rejected ALL attacks!

... still wondering why there are still people LOVING lies....

And about Apple: i wish i could work for them, i love it's management, culture and policy.

I run a PreSonus Firepod on a P4 PC with no problems at all. In fact, I havent ever had a problem... not sure what you mean about it being unstable.

As for the price thing, I could be completely mistaken but last time I checked, Macs were significantly higher priced (Not that I care, but you said they were cheaper).

I use my PC for internet, school work, video games, home design... everything! And it still functions as my DAW just fine. Well enough to get paid for the quality recordings I do.

I don't have anything against macs (other than the lack of rightclick) but honestly thinking that PCs (or Macs for that matter) are junk and dont work, is utterly ridiculous. My PC works well and your Mac works well. It seems as though you should stop worrying about it.

This is just ridiculous...

I have an eMac at work, and I can tell you now that it crashes more then my PC at the house. I'll say right now that this eMac is used to do two things: design/e-publishing and internet, and it does neither well.

And if you count no crashing for all the time the damn thing sits and thinks - spinning its little pinwheel - then I guess that archetecture is pretty sound...it's a tortoise and hare situation. And this OS X-running Mac is so efficient, I need to save every time I do something in Photoshop or I lose all the hard work...

I'll say one thing. The reputations of Macs to do desktop publishing, graphics, and DAW has taken a hit with me...they will have to work *very* hard in order to convince me to abandon my PC. But I digress...they won't.

Brad Venable
Voice For Hire, LLC

Give me a machine where I can replace ANY or ALL the parts in the time it takes me to drive to Frys or PC Club or the 100s of other parts stores.

Give me a machine I can get free automatic updates on

Give me a machine I can get inexpensive and a huge variety of software to choose from.

Give me a machine thats inexpensive to upgrade myself every two years to what ever degree of the sate of the art I choose without regard to the operating system

Give me a machine that Sonar 4 runs on..........

Any guesses which platform Im on?

I will take the machine that runs Samplitude and Sequoia with rock solid stability and power to spare.

I think that will be a PC.

Guy Cefalu.
SONICA-X, LLC.