Hey Kevin, as always I really enjoy your stuff but I can't help wonder how you are tracking and mixing the cymbals and hats. They sound swirly. Do you uses some sort of stereo processing on them? I'd be curious to hear what they sound like mono

I know you could improve this in your wonderful songs. 👍🏼

audiokid wrote:
Hey Kevin, as always I really enjoy your stuff but I can't help wonder how you are tracking and mixing the cymbals and hats. They sound swirly. Do you uses some sort of stereo processing on them? I'd be curious to hear what they sound like mono

I know you could improve this in your wonderful songs. 👍🏼

The first two pieces were recorded live by a professional in a studio when the projects got to the point where he could follow them. I had to actually create a tempo change grid via a separate midi track to he could follow the changes in the timing. It was quite the process. He then sent a live suite of tracks:

• Kick
• Snare top
• Snare Bottom
• HHat
• Toms L
• Toms R
• OH L
• OH R

He compressed the tracks for consistency prior to sending.

They were professionally recorded - but that doesn't mean they were w/o issue. I had to tame some of the tracks pretty severely from some of the normal things one would incur in any live recording - ringing, hums etc ...

The SECOND two pieces in the song suite were not recorded at all. They're Superior Drums w/ midi parts I selected to suit the arrangements.

THAT said, ALL drums on said projects are pumped to a separate sub. 

ON said aux, treatment is left simple. I insert two compressors. The first in chain is a compressor called "Major Tom" - by RK Audio. It just works right on Master drums. This is followed by a BT Audio limiter. All I do w/ the limiter is "trim the tops" of the signal. I keep the attack and release quick ... meaning quick in/quick out. This keeps things more natural.

I hit Major Tom in a very light way also. This is meant for that purpose, and is merely a tool I know and like, but I hit the compression mostly lightly.

Then I run everything through a Waves mastering plug I like. I use a setting the widens the whole mix and accentuates, yet tightens, the low end. I just like the setting, and it works in what I want to hear.

That plug is followed by a brick wall limiter to, again, trim the tops. It hits at 1 db and limits to .4 - so it it barely called upon.

I know WHY I set everything up this way, but I have to say ... particularly on tracks professionally recorded and midi synth'd, I'm curious as to why cymbal swirl might be coming through. I take great pains to NOT over compress the drums or master bus. 

Like most, I know I sometimes do over press things ... and because of the artifacts created, I remain wary of my own shortcomings, and listen hard to avoid. 

Thanks, as always, bud, for the extra ears. I will go listen and try to hear what you're hearing.

Love the explanations! Thank you. 
 

There could be some SoundCloud issue but after a lot of tests for my own mixing (for this very reason of having the swirling effect) I’ve pretty much ruled that SoundCloud causes this particular issue. 

i would be curious to hear some of the mix in mono. I’ll find a particular section I hear it most and if you like, maybe you can test the phase in mono.  Maybe post it via our upload rather than SoundCloud for experimenting fun!

audiokid wrote:
Love the explanations! Thank you. 
 

There could be some SoundCloud issue but after a lot of tests for my own mixing (for this very reason of having the swirling effect) I’ve pretty much ruled that SoundCloud causes this particular issue. 

i would be curious to hear some of the mix in mono. I’ll find a particular sectionI hear it most and if you like, maybe you can test the phase in mono.  Maybe post it via our upload rather than SoundCloud for experimenting fun!

🍻

... but I have learned the limitations of the internet. 

One must remember that us who were here at the dawn of internet days got to actually talk to folks who really wanted to convey their knowledge. That's logical. People who know shit love to share.

Unfortunately, the internet being new, knowledgeable folks said, "FUCK YOU TROLLS" and largely migrated away from the noise. I, fortunately, was able to tap folks back when. 

Being respectful of their knowledge, i asked the questions I needed answers to.

But there's NO easy path to knowing. 

One must delve deep into the what, and sort it out. 

The surprise is: less is more.

Just make sure to avoid GIGO (garbage in, garbage out). 

There will ALWAYS be mistakes made in the recording of things. That's just being human.

The thing to avoid is the ego over acknowledgement of address of imperfection. 

My cousin - a nationally known producer (think "Stacey's mom has got it going on") ... who I outfitted his new studio with when I was a gear rep back in the day, once told me: Just make what you put to tape authentic. Then make the mix work from there.

That became my credo. 

One must remember that us who were here at the dawn of internet days got to actually talk to folks who really wanted to convey their knowledge. That's logical. People who know shit love to share.

We were very lucky to experience the early days when the old school engineers were here and literately alive too!

The surprise is: less is more.

Totally agree. My early days when I used Pro Tools Mix plus... I used as many plugins as my processor would handle. crazy lol. More commonly today I will strip or isolate out a lot of things until the mix tightens up. Less is more indeed 😉

The thing to avoid is the ego over acknowledgement of address of imperfection. 

absolutely. I'm so old now lol... I do this all for fun but there was a time, especially when I played for a living, I wanted to make it so bad... it got to me, got in my way. Today I'm super relaxed and chill about most everything in life.

Back to the mix:

4:25 mark is a good example of that swirly effect I hear. But maybe it’s the ringing in my ears 😆 . Joking aside, it sounds like the cymbals and hat transients don't know what side of the stereo mix to sit on. That’s how I interpret and feel is possible causes of the swirling sound. 

I will give a close listen. I'm traveling today, but will be back near the studio later. Thanks for specifics!