Cucco wrote: [quote=BobRogers]I'm interested in what the musicians thought of the mix. While I like the mix with less of the spots, I'd like to know how much of the "more me in the mix" syndrome is alive in classical musicians at this level. I would not be surprised if they (and many other listeners) preferred your mix.

I have not found this to be the case at all - actually quite the contrary....
Interesting. Almost all of my contact with classical musicians is with HS students and college students at VT. Even the ones who are much more knowledgeable than I about classical music have a very different perspective. (Though they are not uniform. Some are much more conservative in their musical tastes than I.) They grew up listening to modern recordings both of classical and popular music. I'd still be interested in the reaction of David's group which is mostly students (if I remember correctly).

I wouldn't doubt that younger students (particularly college age) would be prone to this. It's just my experience that once they get into the "real" classical world, they curb that pretty quickly.

I agree - it would be interesting to get some of his clients' reactions.

David French wrote: Fraz, I listened to your mix, and I thought it sounded very similar to my own mix, while Cucco's sounded significantly more natural.

Well i am glad mine turned out decent atleast. I really did not know how to approach the mix. I started with the mains, and then increased the levels of the flanks. Then tried to fill in the holes with the spots.

Next time, I am going to try putting the mains and flanks at unity. It may gives me a whole new perspective on the mix.

Thank you Jeremy for that explanation. Everything makes perfect sense and although what you say is very simple, I feel I have learned a lot just by reading it.

As for player reactions, I have none to give you. It is most likely that none of the players have heard the recording. Only the conductor has commented, and all he said was that it was a good recording.

Is it too late to join the remix fun...? :D
Will try before listening to the other results.
Can you comment on the required delay for time alignment, did you make measurements?

Daniel

Daniel, you can download the tracks if you want to. There is a text file in the archive with all the information.

David,

Could you upload the multitrack files that the other mixes were based upon? And post an mp3 of your mix based on this section? Or could the others post samples of their mix based on the current multitrack files?
And are there any pictures of the performance?

Ok, [[url=http://[/URL]="http://indienserver…"]here's my quick mix[/]="http://indienserver…"]here's my quick mix[/]... It would probably be different if I had to mix the entire piece (I tend towards trying to find a one-mix-fits-all solution rather than fiddle with spots here and there to make individual passages louder). I time-aligned, but did not apply reverb to the spots, I never do. I want the spots to add a touch of presence, so why dilute that with reverb again (IMHO)?

I find your mix somewhat too centered. It's got the opposite of that dreaded "hole in the center" in a way... :D

By the way, BRH, there are two flutes... You can hear the transition from one to the other nicely around 1:20.

Daniel

I really never meant to post that other section, so it won't be coming back.

Nice mix. Much more natural than mine. I think my problem was just trying to make everything sound equally clear.

I'm hoping some others will mix this and we can do some comparisons.

d_fu wrote: I find your mix somewhat too centered. It's got the opposite of that dreaded "hole in the center" in a way... :D

I would agree only if the spots are considered. However, the rest of the mix (the main mics minus the spots) gives a rather wide interpretation. The strings are spread rather unnaturally with the winds (occupying center) being featured too prominently.

I think this was a matter of the main array and the flanks being too close in level to the point where the flanks occassionally overtook the mains.

Cucco wrote: The strings are spread rather unnaturally with the winds (occupying center) being featured too prominently.

I heard a discrepancy between the flutes' position from the mains and from the spots. They seem to come from two different places.

Jeremy, please post your mix based on the new multitrack files...

Daniel

It will be some time before I can. I have a remote tonight, 1 tomorrow, 2 on Sunday and post/editing all next week.

I agree with the discrepancy.

I also want to add that I am in NO WAY interested in some sort of "mixing competition."

This is a very subjective and personal task and while certain mixes may end up as clear losers, there could be no way to define a clear winner. The original intent of my downloading and mixing the project was not to enter into any kind of pissing contest no matter how kind-hearted of a contest it would be.

I simply wanted to show David that his attention to detail and accuracy in work can indeed yield positive results but one has to look at it in perhaps a different way. If I have achieved that, then I see no reason for me to go on mixing other peoples' work.

I will gladly do this for David and send it to him off-line, but it will have to be on my time table as this is undoubtedly my most busy time of the year (until June when orchestra season calms down).

As someone who has hung around here for a while and talked a lot with David (French that is), I've learned that his approach is meticulous and very scientific in nature and he likes to approach all things with a logical and prescribed method. I find this to be an admirable trait and one that I would in no way want to dampen. By posting the clip and explaining what I did, I merely wanted to give him a glimpse of how I do what I do.

Given the fact that I am by no means anywhere near the best in this field, I accept that my methods may leave something to be desired. However, as someone who is perpetually learning myself, I encourage people to comment on and criticize my approach.

What I don't think will be helpful here is 10 different mixes of how it could have been with no other information. In fact, I only see this as being detrimental to David's enthusiasm and energy.

Now, please don't anyone take this the wrong way. I'm not intending to attack or belittle anyone's ideas or posts. I'm merely pointing out my thoughts on the concept of a mixing shootout.

Now, I'm off to load up my truck for tonight's remote. Any subsequent replies from me for the rest of the night will be short and likely mis-spelled as I'll be replying from the keypad of a Palm Treo.

Cheers-

Jeremy

Cool Jeremy. Well, I for one have been very impressed with every single recording you have ever posted here, and having you show me how you think about things using my own material as a base is incredibly educationa. If you have the patience to try it again with the right materail, in public or not, I would consider myself very lucky, no matter how long it may take. I only wish I would have posted the correct clip the first time! Idiot!

Ginastera and Rachmaninoff Concerti movements and Lord Nelson Mass fast approaching... :shock:

Jeremy,

I don't think of this as a competition (and I'd actually object to the term "pissing contest"). Given the quality of the original material, the differences are bound to be subtle, without clear "winners" or "losers", just different interpretations...

I set up my mix without previously listening to any others. I was prepared to find out that I'd prefer David's mix to mine. If I don't, then for reasons I've mentioned, which David may or may not find helpful. I don't intend to "teach". My approach to this mix may also have been less "scientific" than Jeremy's.

I'm working on a mix of Haydn arias recorded in Italy at the moment. This is kind of tricky, and in a way I'd be grateful for alternative ideas on an approach. One can get stuck with one's own approach. But for the moment, I'm not at that point yet... 8)

Daniel

Jeremy, I can understand you worrying about the possibility that you opened up a can of worms. But everything seems to be going well. And (most importantly) David seems to be enjoying the process.

As of August 2009 I will have spent 30 years as an academic. I have learned that hypocrisy and disingenuousness can be very valuable things. It's not a bad thing to unleash competitive spirit as long as you pretend to be fast friends in search of pure knowledge. Good manners are more important than true feelings every day. One of the best things about this board is that pretty reasonable manners are expected and enforced. If David's mix and your mix inspire a bunch of people to try to top it - good. Don't knock competition - knock bragging, gloating, one-upsmanship. Bad manners get put down pretty hard around here (sometimes with "extreme prejudice").

As long as David is cool with it, this seems like a great exercise. I haven't downloaded the tracks yet, but I might get to it - though you won't hear my mix it I don't feel it is competitive.

(BTW - This is basically the format of most of the online recording/mixing/producing courses at Berklee. So we are saving people lots of bucks here.)

Good points Bob.

Daniel - I do not mean to offend you or anyone in particular by referring to it is a pissing contest - my point is that I don't want it to get to that point.

Bob, I agree civility is crucial in all matters of competition and growth. Again though, I did not want anyone to think that my reasoning for doing the mix was for any other reason than what I stated previously.

if people would like to mix and compare, I would think this to be healthy. EVen an appropriate level of criticism would be helpful, but if it were to turn into a competition in any way, I personally would wash my hands of it. I've seen way too many competitions that start out with the best of intentions and end badly.

and hey, if people here want to do that, that's cool. I just am personally not interested and want(ed) to make that perfectly clear up front.

Cheers,
Jeremy

From the perspective of some one who is JUST starting to get into this field of audio, this thread is very helpful.
Not only did I get a chance to mix my first classical recording, I have the oportunity to compare it to more experienced and more detailed mixing. and in allot of cases, a great explanation on how it was achieved.
Some times the best insight seems to come out of you guys when you are debating. Its great to have the oportunity to listeni to some passionate people's "arguments".

At any rate, I will be doing some 5.1 mixing of the Berlin Philharmonic Tonight, to tomorrow afternoon (oh It will be a tiering night, but one I have been looking forward to for a long time) and this has been an invaluable thread for getting my self prepped for it.

TheFraz wrote: At any rate, I will be doing some 5.1 mixing of the Berlin Philharmonic Tonight, to tomorrow afternoon ...

Is this live? If so you can say hello to my brother in law, Stanley Dodds, in the second violins.

TheFraz wrote: Its great to have the oportunity to listen to some passionate people's "arguments".

No it's not.

DavidSpearritt wrote: [quote=TheFraz]At any rate, I will be doing some 5.1 mixing of the Berlin Philharmonic Tonight, to tomorrow afternoon ...

Is this live? If so you can say hello to my brother in law, Stanley Dodds, in the second violins.
I wish. I am just mixing it. My teacher recorded it.