20% is a standard fee to give to a manager..

I don't find producer managers suit me (had 3 and a half)

Tip 1) Instead - I have had a lawyer design about 5 contracts for me, each to suit the various situations that come up for me and have negotiated a reasonable 'tweak rate' so any that need minor modifacation wont rape my wallet.

(and no, you (anyone I mean here) can't have a copy! They relate only to UK law and are private business documents.'Do it yourself law' is a notoriously stupid thing to attempt BTW)

Tip 2) Most producer managers are fully stocked with producers, so.... perhaps 'make' a manager out of a shrewd music biz contact you like, that understands your business.

Tip 3) What about that American guy John, owner of IPC studios - is he still around? Perhaps he would be good...

I dunno, it's one area I am a little bitter and twisted about. Hope that helps a little.

:)

Originally posted by Chris Lambrechts:
I suck at discussing good contracts for myself .... I give in WAY to easy .....

You have pretty much just described the beginnings of Mercenary Audio. There were 4 of us who were all producer/engineers...and we kept get strung up in negotiations because we didn't want "business" to interfere with the 'creative' part or drive a wedge between us and the 'artist'...so we used to negotiate each other's deals (including equipment rentals). We gave it a name so it looked like a real 'management company'.

Since then, I've had a few other managers, but they're usually people that manage "real" engineers or producers...but will do the occassional negotiation for me (mostly as a favor, and 15%)...if who ever is "representing you" is doing any kind of a decent job, then they'll get you way more than the money you're spending on them.

Until then...have a friend you trust do the 'negotiation'...when you really do need a manager, one will find you...

Best of luck.

thanks fletcher,

that is exactly the way I feel about it .... instead of breaking my head and loosing endless amounts of time doing something I feel I 'm not good at .... I think I'd make better use of time time doing what I think I am good at ....

I kindof put together projects ....; take a young artists and create / think out a concept ... write / record / produce ..... work on a stage act etc etc .... I like to call it "artistic management"

once I get to the point I go lobbying the rec comps for a license I find myself "loosing" my time for days if not weeks just to end up saying afterwards ... damn ... why didn't I think of mechandising participation .... or damn ... I forgot to read it properly and find myself with a worldwide license instead of a local one which I intended in the first place ....

ok .... things that don't happen to me now ... but in the beginning .... phew .... you'd laugh your ass off with the deal I was able to make for myself .....

Now I laugh about them because ... 1. they didn't turn into million sellers anyhow" and 2. I suppose it is all part of the learning course ....

Looking back at some of the deals I got it was almost like .... hey ... just sign them, I'll pay for everything and take care of printing, distribution ... I'll even carry the CD's to the shops myself ... you guys just take the profit and I'll even pay your accountants to calculate how much it is you win ..... :)

anyhow ... I am thinking of having a friend / lawyer who is very interested in "the business" and wants to make his way out there have a go at it .....

Chris Lambrechts

If you can get away with it, have the manager person only get comission on advances and not royalties.
:)
Jules

Originally posted by Julian Standen:
If you can get away with it, have the manager person only get comission on advances and not royalties.
:)
Jules

hmmm .... very good tip indeed .....

ya, good tip Jules!

What's the norm for most managers?

Chris

I'll venture my view here.
If i were you from what you describe I would address the issue at it's roots too- you need
to learn to fight your own corner, this is the same with management and everyone.
You could pay someone very good to help you get more effective and confident in negotiation.
As far as a good representative you may find then that becomes a great lawyer.
As far as management is concerned try to ensure you can get out of the contract as painlessly as poss if it doesn't work and make sure the person is bright where you need them to be, tough, and committed to your work.
Managers have a difficult role as a go-between and I think they've got to extraordinary to be worth the investment, but well worth seeking!!

Good luck

Renie

Note: I am an engineer, not a producer,etc. (disclaimer over)
Managers always seemed to treat me as a big fat cash cow. I'd ask them why they would take commissions on gigs that I hooked up myself. They would give me some b.s. like "Agents get you gigs" or some crap. On top of this, they would act like THEY were MY boss. So I canned them, and found a studio manager that was between jobs & he does collections for me at 5%. If I found a manager that I trust (baw-hahahaha) and believe could get me gigs, I might consider management, but my career has been better with management altogether.

did you mean to type 'without' e-que?

:)

20% seems a standard here in the UK - watch out for extras like telephone, share of expences to go to music festivals - like CMJ, Midem, Pop Com, SXSW etc.

Then you can insist on ONLY talking about music / recording NOT $$$$ ££££ or Belgian waffel vouchers.

:)