x
anonymous 21 December 2010

What are the two most important pieces of gear to a mastering engineer, as pertaining to final quality of sound as opposed to say workflow?

Tags

Comments

Big K Wed, 12/22/2010 - 04:43

TheJackAttack, post: 359473 wrote: Left ear. Right ear.

Spot on... I would give the head inbetween some importance, too.
;-)

Appart from that and in the right hands:
various compressors, EQs, limiters, noise reduction and (careful!) sound enhancer ...
There is no saying what is more important. Important is what you need. Workflow is secondary to sound, always..and it differs all the time. Good monitors and correct room acustic treatment is mandatory, anyway.

Btw, to own a whole box of dynamic tools and Equalizers does not mean one has to use mulitple instances. It is the sound material that decides, what character the compressor, etc., should have.
Less is often more...
:-)

TheJackAttack Wed, 12/22/2010 - 10:21

That depends on the frequencies involved. If the room is shoddy I have to use both ears on all frequencies. Nominally tongue in cheek-although opening the mouth and moving the head changes resonance and reception quite a bit as all piano tuners know.

I'm probably just GAS'd out. The ears are and will always be the most important tool other than the grey matter between them. I think it has been pretty unanimous that the room and monitors come next. Without these things no piece of gear is going to get you that last 10%. After that I leave it to the professional ME's predilections.

Massive Mastering Wed, 12/22/2010 - 15:39

The monitoring and the room. It goes to two of the only real "rules" in audio --

1) No matter what your talent, skill, etc., you will only ever hear as accurately and consistently as your monitoring chain allows you to hear.

2) No matter how accurate and consistent your monitoring chain may be, it will only ever be as accurate and consistent as the room they're in allows them to be.

Let's call the monitoring chain the monitors themselves, the amplifier, the controller and the DA.

If you've got your chain and your room in good order, everything else is up to you -- Freeware, shareware or the most expensive and exotic hardware, it's all your fault.

kmetal Fri, 12/24/2010 - 03:08

As a tracking/mix engineer, i am not qualified to comment with any weight, but here goes. Ears, Brain, Room, Monitoring a must! I would like to add Knowledge, Experience. There's a reason why mastering houses exist in the world of plugins, $299 deals from manufacturers. The equipment, and room, are integral, but i bet i could mess-up anybody's recordings in the best mastering house out there! I feel comfortable with a ME based on their experience, cuz it is not easy, in any way, to be one. While, i haven't been privy to hear the 'mixes', i did notice a trend that some of my favorite sounding recordings, came from the same mastering house, often by the same person, and of different genres. Knowledge (of music, room, equipment, ect) and Experience (macking great finished products), those 2 you can't buy.

audiokid Sun, 03/06/2011 - 23:10

Well, I'd say my SPL Mixdream and Dangerous Master. Without those two, I wouldn't have gotten motivated in the first place. Until I got into hybrid audio, I didn't know what I was missing or have a clue why I was in the dark.

Then, everything else falls into place for me.

Room, monitors, converter, cable, hardware, Sequoia, power etc.

Herbeck Mon, 03/07/2011 - 00:18

audiokid, post: 365750 wrote: Well, I'd say my SPL Mixdream and Dangerous Master. Without those two, I wouldn't have gotten motivated in the first place.

Gear that inspire you and fill you with enthusiasm is truly important.
I wish I had that feeling with the telephone and address book.

Cheers,

Herbeck

Scott Chae Mon, 03/07/2011 - 18:24

audiokid, post: 365750 wrote: Well, I'd say my SPL Mixdream and Dangerous Master. Without those two, I wouldn't have gotten motivated in the first place. Until I got into hybrid audio, I didn't know what I was missing or have a clue why I was in the dark.

I absolutely agree with Dangerous Master. I feel no (or less if any) change in sound with gaining up or down as opposed to using makeup gain on many compressors. And t.c. System 6000 is also a great weapon for parallel compression.

Massive Mastering Fri, 03/11/2011 - 21:26

Herbeck, post: 365643 wrote: A chain is no stronger than the weakest link.
Every piece of gear you use is important.

True to some extent, but the monitoring chain (and the room) are the final arbiters of every other piece. Every decision, every gear choice, every setting is based on how the monitoring chain translates.

Just like in photography -- You can have the best camera on the planet - But your photos are only going to be as good as the lens allows (on any camera body).

Herbeck Sat, 03/12/2011 - 02:27

Massive Mastering, post: 366222 wrote: True to some extent, but the monitoring chain (and the room) are the final arbiters of every other piece. Every decision, every gear choice, every setting is based on how the monitoring chain translates.

Just like in photography -- You can have the best camera on the planet - But your photos are only going to be as good as the lens allows (on any camera body).

True, without a good room/monitors you can't judge the other links in the chain.

You seems to know a thing or two about the visual arts too.
Your homepage looks great.
This is also an important tool, everything is connected.

(off topic)
Betty Edwards has some good and interesting techniques for developing your visual perception.
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.drawrigh…"]Learn to Draw: Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain.[/]="http://www.drawrigh…"]Learn to Draw: Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain.[/]

Cheers,

Herbeck

Herbeck Wed, 05/25/2011 - 07:19

Massive Mastering, post: 371495 wrote: I feel awful for missing that -- Much appreciated, Herbeck.

Hi John, no worries =)

I've got two friends that are professional painters, who's listening skills are way beyond average.
And I think that there is some kind of connection there, maybe the right brain thing.
Many ME's are very good at logical left brain thinking.
I just try to push right brain thinking a little by recommending people to read Betty Edwards books on the subject, and to take a look at perfect pitch ear training drills.
The brain is a wonderful tool, so why not use the whole thing.

Cheers,

Herbeck

Red Mastering Thu, 10/20/2011 - 13:50

Herbeck, post: 371708 wrote: Hi John, no worries =)

I've got two friends that are professional painters, who's listening skills are way beyond average.
And I think that there is some kind of connection there, maybe the right brain thing.
Many ME's are very good at logical left brain thinking.
I just try to push right brain thinking a little by recommending people to read Betty Edwards books on the subject, and to take a look at perfect pitch ear training drills.
The brain is a wonderful tool, so why not use the whole thing.

Cheers,

Herbeck

Great point indeed!
I think it's a sort of artist approach thing - more like a 'feeling' things then analyze them,
our society is focused on left brain thinking,
time to change it to have a balance

audiokid Thu, 04/10/2014 - 16:47

Herbeck, post: 371708, member: 37542 wrote: Hi John, no worries =)

I've got two friends that are professional painters, who's listening skills are way beyond average.
And I think that there is some kind of connection there, maybe the right brain thing.
Many ME's are very good at logical left brain thinking.
I just try to push right brain thinking a little by recommending people to read Betty Edwards books on the subject, and to take a look at perfect pitch ear training drills.
The brain is a wonderful tool, so why not use the whole thing.

I feel happy after reading that now, I'm a painter. I make a good living painting and spend it all on music. I have good listening skills but I think I'm kinda stupid lol.

anonymous Fri, 04/25/2014 - 05:20

Yeah, I was also gonna say the two ears that they have attached to their heads.. but I thought that was too easy, so I waited for a real M.E. Like Thomas to show up.... LOL

And, I can personally attest to the fact that he has a great pair of ears, because he's done mastering work for me in the past -many years ago... he just doesn't remember. ;)

audiokid Fri, 04/25/2014 - 12:37

Personally, "gear does matter" and to me, gear is paramount to professional recording, mixing and mastering. In fact, if this is what a ME said to me first hand, I would probably move on. Sorry. I want to hear what you have and know.

To quote: The two ears he or she has is not gear.
Its a given you already have good hearing in the mastering forum. This isn't the newbie or DIY section and the question was gear.
So, I found the hearing response derailing right off the bat and it ended all room for professional discussion about gear. The OP asked about gear. You all killed it.

That response is a cop out.
Sorry, just my opinion on where this thread went goofy sideways.

it insinuates,
close the ME forum and make a sticky, "all you need are ears" .:sleep:

anonymous Sat, 04/26/2014 - 03:26

I understand what you are saying, Chris... and yes, gear does matter. Big time. But the person using the gear matters as well. I've run into more than one ME that had some very nice gear, yet who still followed the current trends of loud=great, and who's final product sounded squashed and lifeless. I think that it is possible to have the money to buy the right gear and still not know what you are doing. I've heard my fair share of awful mixes coming off of various SSL and Neve consoles, too.

Back to the gear... the best final product I ever heard came out of a room with an SPL core; the console, the various tube pres, etc. Something happened to that mix that was magical when that ME pushed my mix through that console and his various peripheral gear. It sparkled, it had a warm, defined low end. I haven't heard a final product that good since the last time you worked on one of my songs.

What I did find surprising at the time, was that there wasn't an LA2 nor an 1176 to be found anywhere in that facility. He was using pretty much all SPL stuff, and the only vintage GR he had on hand was a pair of old dbx 161's.

I liked that he respected the dynamic range. The final master still had space and light.

audiokid Sat, 04/26/2014 - 13:24

Indeed,

but don't you tire from that aways being mentioned in a thread. I know that, you know that, any engineer with any salt knows that. So, why do engineers always say its about them, their ears... really?
I don't know about all of you but the very first day I got a guitar, I new it was about that guitar and amp that inspired me to play well. It was the sound of it.

After years of playing, I bought a custom built PRS guitar that had the intonation and frets that I liked. If you give me your guitar, I don't think I would play as well. Gear matters and when people are asking us about gear in a pro audio forum, I think they are asking about gear and not expecting to be diminished to, your ears. Thats pretty lame to me..

Example: I know my daughter needs a better piano. The one we have is okay, but she needs a better one.Why, because this one times out. It needs better action and better hammers and I would also like it longer and fuller. Something my ears are telling me.

The last thing I talk about are my "born" skills around here. I'm interested in gear and methods we apply using the gear. If all we did was say, use your ears... pretty boring information there eh.

I'd be more inclined to appreciate what someone does when they use a particular piece of gear or plug-in for that matter over telling me to use my ears.

When someone asks me about gear, I tell them what I like, why I like it, how I use it and it usually evolves well up until someone comes in and says, gear doesn't matter. .

pcrecord Mon, 04/28/2014 - 09:47

I'm with you audiokid,
It's a true fact that trained ears are needed to be able to judge the sound your are working on.
A lot of people will tell you it's the most important thing but what ever how good your ears are, what good will they do without monitors and other parts of the signal path.. You can master a song mentally all you want, if you want to send it out there, you need gear !! ;)

Now I might have written a few times that trained ears are important. But how one should trained their ears has not been discussed.
To me, I guess my ears are getting better and better; anytime I buy a new piece of gear. Why ? because It forces me to recognise the sonic differences it provides and I must deal with all the options it adds to my setup and ajust my way of doing things to serve the song and mix.

Thomas W. Bethel Sun, 05/11/2014 - 04:35

Your monitoring setup and your ears. All the fancy equipment in the world will not make a good master without listening to what you are doing in a good acoustically designed room and with a good pair of speakers. Most pro mastering engineers get the results they get because they have a good room, good speakers and good ears. The equipment varies all over the place depending on what the mastering engineer thinks is the best for what he or she is doing. Some people do everything ITB some have multiple analog compressors and equalizers, some stay all in the digital realm. I say use what ever equipment you want and you feel comfortable using.

audiokid Thu, 05/22/2014 - 14:07

I don't think so, but I'm getting further and further off the digital grid here. I'm waiting for tomatoes and hate mail from AVID users. But, hey, I can help lol ;)

My brains and ears tell me you need good gear too, which is once again, exactly what the OP is asking here.

I'm from the old school where you did things manually and used tubes and tannies and MS approach to take the edge off of rash or to add some polish to an already beautiful recording or some width to something that is really crammed together. I mean, it goes on and on.. If I could own a room full of EQ's and outboard processing, wow. And stem mastering, let me have it! !!
A rack of Pultecs are on my radar.

So I say really? All you need is ears and a brain to be a ME today? And what, some budget PC and free plugs is enough? You think all DAW's are equal? Surely you have a favourite limiter then? Pro L is mine.

Don't get me wrong, I get the transparent approach, and stick to this every step I can... I respect the artist and vision.
But fact, I'm actually turning around from where I was 10 years ago and educating my client. I can't help myself for wanting to go OTB to add my thing.
I accept, if all you are doing is the basic tweaks and limiting, okay, you don't need much. I guess this is why no one is recommending gear here, right? But, isn't there anything left here that uses hardware in a mastering chain?

To stir this up then... I find ITB to do something quite awful to the sound and I'm not alone. So, if thats as good as it gets for you, then, yikes.. I am one to believe the last thing an ME wants is the evidence he/she was there, but come-on.. You need something more than your ears and brain to do anything in the commercial world. Don't you need a phone (iphone, blackberry what... , a nice car, , bespoke clothing to fit, personalized so you look the part at least?
Has Mastering really evolved to only clinical steps now? Is there nothing left?

Give me something more than ears and brains... this is too sad to read here. I know a few guys loving Pulse MEQ-5 and EQM-1A3 at the end of the chain to be the bomb.

2 EQM-1A3 are next on my list. No DAW can touch these.

x

User login