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BobRogers 13 April 2011

I found http://bobbyowsinsk…"]this clip[/]="http://bobbyowsinsk…"]this clip[/] pretty interesting. Two questions: What is Sinatra's mic? Who is the (left-handed) conductor? Looks too old to be Nelson Riddle.

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TheJackAttack Wed, 04/13/2011 - 16:09

Thanks for that. Wonderful to see/hear. I like the last comment on the site.

"Recording sure has change in the last 46 years. I'm not sure it's gotten any better though.

I also found it amusing Sinatra stated that if the kids would enunciate their words he might be more interested in what they were singing and their music.

pmolsonmus Wed, 04/13/2011 - 18:44

1965 is probably Gordon Jenkins at the podium. Can't say I ever saw him conduct before, but the arrangements are dynamite. (conducting not so much)

I grew up on this stuff - especially fond memories of "Frank and Splank" with Sinatra/Count Basie and arrangements by a young guy named Quincy Jones.

The thing I like about Sinatra's swing approach is always his timing. He usually puts beginning consonants on the beat which puts him slightly behind the beat with the word and it creates this relaxed groove.

I kind of ignored his stuff early in my development because it was the days of "New York, New York" and I was "above" that drivel in college music courses, but coming back to it with a critical ear was really uncovering a gold mine. Thanks for the link.

Phil

BobRogers Thu, 04/14/2011 - 03:39

pmolsonmus, post: 368782 wrote: 1965 is probably Gordon Jenkins at the podium. Can't say I ever saw him conduct before, but the arrangements are dynamite. (conducting not so much)

Looks like his picture. Probably right. I'm just glad to see him conducting left handed! Give me hope. I've tried to conduct right handed and I look like a wounded duck. My daughter says that no one would look at me if I conducted lefty. Classical musicians are such sissys.

I grew up on this stuff - especially fond memories of "Frank and Splank" with Sinatra/Count Basie and arrangements by a young guy named Quincy Jones.

The thing I like about Sinatra's swing approach is always his timing. He usually puts beginning consonants on the beat which puts him slightly behind the beat with the word and it creates this relaxed groove.

I kind of ignored his stuff early in my development because it was the days of "New York, New York" and I was "above" that drivel in college music courses, but coming back to it with a critical ear was really uncovering a gold mine. Thanks for the link.

Yeah, I felt the same way when I was a kid, but learned to really appreciate the craft and enjoy the songs later in life. Wee Small Hours, Only the Lonely, Songs for Swingin' Lovers - great albums. Put 'em on, send the kids to grandmas house.

You know the great vocalist from that era who really came as a revelation to me - Fred Astaire. Seriously. He's vastly under appreciated as a singer. Sings very straight, but the timing is impeccable (no surprise there).

pmolsonmus Sat, 04/16/2011 - 16:45

I really dug Tony Bennett and Joe Williams, had some rare recordings of Tony with McCoy Tyner and several other Coltrane players. He could really swing as well, but his $ was ballads (great stuff with Bill Evans).

My world really opened up when I heard Mark Murphy though. Light bulb "Aha" moment - OHHHH, THAT's what a white guy singing jazz can sound like."
Still my favorite jazz singer and a guy who experiments on the band stand every night.

Had a chance to hang out and have a few drinks with Mark, Kurt Elling, Jon Henricks, and Peter Estridge (The 4 brothers) a few years ago. That was a great night.

RemyRAD Sun, 04/17/2011 - 02:49

I have a KM 54 and the body is much smaller than what was in the video. At least that's how it appeared to me. And the capsule is not removable. It's still Multi-pattern, side address so this can't be a KM 54. And it certainly doesn't appear to be Putnam engineering either? Obviously Frank didn't insist on no smoking recording sessions either. Imagine inviting audience members that never coughed or sneezed. I didn't see any of them smoking either. When you wanted that mellow vocal sound, you would use cigarettes instead of ribbon microphones.

Cough cough wheeze
Mx. Remy Ann David

lambchop Fri, 04/22/2011 - 07:04

BobRogers, post: 368815 wrote: You know the great vocalist from that era who really came as a revelation to me - Fred Astaire. Seriously. He's vastly under appreciated as a singer. Sings very straight, but the timing is impeccable (no surprise there).

I was always a fan of Fred Astaire's song renderings. Growing up I would listen to WNEW-AM in my 64' Belair coming back from a gig. Interestingly enough, Astaire did not consider himself a good singer and would say, "Anybody would sound good if they had people like George Gershwin, Harold Arlen, Irving Berlin, Cole Porter, and Jerome Kern writing songs for them".

I just did a quick Google search and here's a list of the songs that Fred Astaire introduced.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://en.wikipedia…"]List of songs introduced by Fred Astaire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/]="http://en.wikipedia…"]List of songs introduced by Fred Astaire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/]

Pretty impressive!

BobRogers Fri, 04/22/2011 - 07:43

According to Terry Teachout, Astaire was Irving Berlin and Cole Porter's favorites singer. Probably because he doesn't deviate much from what's on the page. Of course, as a dancer he was a more creative artist, but as a singer he was a great craftsman. Very good to listen to if you are trying to hear the songwriter's intention.

TheJackAttack Thu, 03/08/2012 - 20:46

Of course back in them days the audience may have smoked but otherwise were quiet as church mice. A gate wouldn't have been needed for them and I'm pretty sure at most of Sinatra's daytime sessions there were "friends" present. Some of the midnight sessions even had guests according to some of the session players. Also notice that in this photo and in the video Bob posted, the band is in the null of the mic.

RemyRAD Fri, 03/09/2012 - 11:18

They didn't bother much with downward expanders/noise gates on sessions such as these. These rooms had actual acoustics which were actually utilized, live. Microphones were properly placed and their polar patterns were intelligently utilized. And that's what real recording and reel recordings were all about. It was quality recording engineering technique utilizing basic rudimentary equipment back in the day. The way I learned how to record and on that same rudimentary equipment. Gates & downward expanders really didn't hit the market until the early 1970s when they finally became useful and cool sounding tools.

Give me KEPEX or give me death
Mx. Remy Ann David

audiokid Fri, 03/09/2012 - 11:30

Looks like there is a piano lid open behind him, maybe its just something black, but not all of the band is in the null though, there would have to be some bleed. The more I think about this though, paper in Franks hand (noise and reflections), maybe they are all just rehearsing and they do it more personal on the final takes. What do you think?

RemyRAD Fri, 03/09/2012 - 11:44

I really think this is how the session went down. I've seen and been to sessions like this. The bleed was utilized because of the superior acoustics of the room. Remember this was pre-Beatles and things were done a lot differently back then. People weren't recording in small rooms but in rather large ones where acoustics were an important part of the sound. After that time, studios became much smaller boxes and acoustics became nightmarish. Sure, tall GOBO's were utilized but that was about it. And they didn't have any of those around him for the picture. So some aesthetically removed items were utilized for that picture. Or rather they weren't utilized for that picture.

In the know.
Mx. Remy Ann David

Davedog Fri, 03/09/2012 - 16:27

Come on. Its a promo shot. Frank wouldnt be wearing the hat and tie if he was working. He'd have a music stand for the sheet so it wouldn't rattle when he turned the pages....Hell, he'd have someone turning pages for him. And there's no side table for the cigarettes and 'water' jug he'd also have near-by. Besides, this is the back cover to one of the records......or a blow up of a picture on the back cover. We had all the records at the house when I was a kid and I kinda remember this one......but its hazy.......Zelda? Zelda is that you????

As for "Beatles" recording rooms....Studio 2 at Abbey Road can accommodate up to 55 musicians....its where they did most of their work. So it was old school too.

JoeH Wed, 03/14/2012 - 06:28

Ok, you can read more about this era and other classic sessions (including the Columbia Studios in NYC) right here:

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.amazon.c…"]Amazon.com: Studio Stories - How the Great New York Records Were Made (Softcover) (9780879308179): David Simons: Books[/]="http://www.amazon.c…"]Amazon.com: Studio Stories - How the Great New York Records Were Made (Softcover) (9780879308179): David Simons: Books[/]

A MOST EXCELLENT read, and something you'll want to keep on your coffee table or "porcelin reading room" for a long time to come.

Get this book, you'll love it.

DonnyThompson Wed, 03/11/2015 - 03:30

I'm surprised that there was an audience at the session. Especially considering that these people weren't in a separate room watching through a window - you can see in the video, they are sitting right behind him in the performance room.
Lord help them if someone had sneezed, coughed, cleared their throat, rattled a bracelet...

TheJackAttack Wed, 03/11/2015 - 06:54

That was very normal at least in those Las Vegas sessions. Quite a few of those sessions were in the middle of the night/wee small hours. The musicians would drive over from LA to do them. You mention the audience but you also had all of the strings and the oboe/EH in the room. Very few gobos. It was all about mic placement and blend. The strings sound pretty good but you can hear the oboe too far from the mic by today's standard.

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