Your first need to understand, get this in your head, and learn it. There is no best kick mic nor is there any best anything else despite what your friend or anybody else tells you. What may be best one day may be different and not best on another day. NOBODY can really tell what is best as that is something that can only be determined by you based on your experiences. Best is subjective and what I may find best, you may not. Do what real engineers do. Get a hold of different mics or the one mic you are interested in, use it, and come to your own conclusions.

AudioGaff wrote: Your first need to understand, get this in your head, and learn it. There is no best kick mic nor is there any best anything else despite what your friend or anybody else tells you. What may be best one day may be different and not best on another day. NOBODY can really tell what is best as that is something that can only be determined by you based on your experiences. Best is subjective and what I may find best, you may not. Do what real engineers do. Get a hold of different mics or the one mic you are interested in, use it, and come to your own conclusions.

I know there is no best. What I mean is the most versatile. Sorry for using the word best.

Also "real" engineers have the money to get the mic and try it out and come to there own conclusion.

If you tell everyone to come to there own conclusion then theres no reason for this forum. Everyone stop asking questions, just buy the crap and try it out yourself you lazy people.

a lot of it also depends on what music is played and or the sound ur going for. the d112 might sound like crap compared to a beta 52 on one song...and the next song you do...ur taste will switch, hell, what if you want a really crappy drum sound, im prety sure ur not gunna go for an awesome mic. it all depends on what you do...how you do it....etc.

but whenever peple say THIS is the best mic, or more versatile or whatever....slap them. just have fun and realize the possibilities that every mic has.

Well, one (Blue) is $100. The other (AKG) is $200. So, I would guess that the REAL question should be, "Is the Blue mic as good as the AKG?"

I would imagine that many people here have used the AKG. I have. I don't know how many have used the Blue. I have not.

So, from that standpoint here's how I would look at this. If I had $200 to spend on a kick drum mic, would I rather buy an AKG D112 or 2 Blue Balls? I would go for the D112. Why? It's been out for a long time...kid tested and mother approved.

NOW, if I only had $100 and needed a kick drum mic, would it be worth it to go ahead and buy a Blue Ball or should I save up another 100 beans and get the D112? If it would take a while to save up the additional cash I would probably go for the Blue Ball.

Next time, to avoid the backlash, for a question like this, instead of asking "which mic is best or more versatile, ask something like..."Has anyone used the Blue Ball and compared it to the D112 and if so, what were your findings/opinions?"

the D112 is a good all around kick mic, but i find its the last one in my selections. not that its bad sounding, its just i find some other options better working for the sound i want.
but other could stick to that mic for every kick drum in the world and be happy. so it is not like its a bad investment. but the whole "best kick mic in the world thing" i find pretty stupid. there are plenty of nice kick mics out there

i've used some crappy condensors on a kick that have sounded better than the akg

[="http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/c45c0dda459dad08/index.html"]The ATM250DE[/]="http://www.audio-te…"]The ATM250DE[/] from Audio Technica looks like it'd be pretty versitile--as versitile as an instrument-specific mic should be--given its design, but I've yet to try it out.

Most often I'd probably choose anything over a D112 for kick. There are some general characteristics that good kick drums are to me: boomy, or explosive, or slappy, or punchy. But the D112 is rarely (if ever) any of these sounds, and has much more of a "chunk" or "thwap" than your average workhorse dynamic.

[[url=http://="http://www.sweetwat…"]Audix's D6[/]="http://www.sweetwat…"]Audix's D6[/], on the other hand, is some kind of miracle for all things rock.

patrick_like_static wrote: ... There are some general characteristics that good kick drums are to me: boomy, or explosive, or slappy, or punchy. But the D112 is rarely (if ever) any of these sounds, and has much more of a "chunk" or "thwap" than your average workhorse dynamic....

Which is exactly why I like it (though I thing I'd call it more of a "thump" or "thunk")...which is exactly why everyone has their own "best" kick mic.

i like the thud of the D112, but not on its own. i am a fan of double miking the kit.

Onomatopoeia dual on three...one...two...

BobRogers wrote: ...everyone has their own "best" kick mic.

I cordially disagree. Everyone knows the best kick drum sound is gotten by placing a handful of ribbon mics into the drum itself, and using the exact hits on which each mic explodes. Guitar Center recommends it.

I didn't mean to make it personal, Bob. I'll cede to the fact that my young ears are full of caprice and inexperience compared to you guys who actually know how to get good sounds (please don't read sarcasm into this part).

Not the norm, but I've had good results with either an AT2020 about a foot in front of the kick, or a Sennheiser MD421 about 3 inches from the front head. You work with what you've got, eh? Andy

patrick_like_static wrote: [quote=BobRogers]...everyone has their own "best" kick mic.

I cordially disagree. Everyone knows the best kick drum sound is gotten by placing a handful of ribbon mics into the drum itself, and using the exact hits on which each mic explodes.
I stand corrected.

Guitar Center recommends it.

And they would know.

I didn't mean to make it personal, Bob. I'll cede to the fact that my young ears are full of caprice and inexperience compared to you guys who actually know how to get good sounds (please don't read sarcasm into this part).

And I hope no one took it as a personal attack from me. I seriously meant my comment in a "to each his own" sense. In point of fact, I find a more "old school" drum sound more natural and I prefer it. Most people are going for a different sound nowadays. I actually thought your post captured the difference between the two (or probably ten) styles of kick quite well and I just meant, "He likes boom I like thump; That's why there is more than one mic company in business."

WTF?!?!?!?!
There are several 'kick mics' that are well-regarded AND that are not "one-trick ponies". These include the Sennheiser MD421 and the E-V RE20. And, in the event that you have a crappy kick mic, try picking up an Earthworks Kickpad for a lousy $100... it isn't a miracle, but WILL transform your lowly SM57 into a gen-U-ine music machine. Come to think of it, it MIGHT just BE a miracle....!
And what braniac thought that recording engineers were able to buy expensive mics?!?!?! That's the job of the studios!!!!!!

6APTAWEB wrote: [quote=AudioGaff]Your first need to understand, get this in your head, and learn it. There is no best kick mic nor is there any best anything else despite what your friend or anybody else tells you. What may be best one day may be different and not best on another day. NOBODY can really tell what is best as that is something that can only be determined by you based on your experiences. Best is subjective and what I may find best, you may not. Do what real engineers do. Get a hold of different mics or the one mic you are interested in, use it, and come to your own conclusions.

I know there is no best. What I mean is the most versatile. Sorry for using the word best.

Also "real" engineers have the money to get the mic and try it out and come to there own conclusion.

If you tell everyone to come to there own conclusion then theres no reason for this forum. Everyone stop asking questions, just buy the crap and try it out yourself you lazy people.

Allrighty then.

The problem here is those 'real' engineers didnt just write into an internet forum asking questions about what is 'best' or 'what should I do' or 'why doesnt my sound sound like so-and-so's'...They actually tested the mic in real time real world situations and drew a conclusion. If you think for one minute that this is an exclusive way of determining the reality of gear, perpetuated ONLY for the 'real engineers' then you are in the wrong business.

DaGaffster has seen this question a million times on his forum as I have seen it on mine. Did you attempt to answer your own question with a search of the archives here? If you had you would have seen in-depth discussions of this very question, and not just a couple of entries, but PAGES of peoples opinions about kick drum mics.

We could dance around here for days going over the same territory that was covered not more than a month ago and come up with the same conclusion. In fact, the same answer that Gaff has already stated......No one can tell you what is best for your situation. Only you, in your room, with your gear, your drum set, your talent or lack thereof can really determine what mic is best for your situation. Its a cold hard fact but its so very true. Do I know what I like best for my drums in my room? Damn straight ! How did I get there? Trial and error. Just like a 'real engineer'.

Ya want a D112 AKG? Get one and use it. If you buy used, you'll probably never lose your investment if you dont like it. Then if you do, you've made a smart, well thought out purchase. It'll feel good and you will then have an answer for someone elses' question, "Whats the best mic for kick drum?"

This will only be YOUR opinion, but you'll have reallife experience to back up your opinion.

As for my friend Gaff's answer....dont take it personally, he gets an income desgning studio setups for folks and your question seemed like you wanted someone to give away for free things that you could spend time learning about all by yourself.

Finally, what is the value ofa BB such as this? To teach you how to do your work!

I have used D112, ATM25, the RE20 and now have a kick pad I am messing with. I have had good results with all the mics. For the current rock stuff I am recording, I like the D112 with the kick pad. For a few jazzy recording I made a while back I really liked the ATM25 in combo with RE20 (ATM on the beater side and RE20 in the drum. The RE20 by itself worked well in the drum by itself for a few funk recordings I did.

I have used the ATM25 inside the bass drum with two QTC 50's on overheads. It worked well for the tight kit.

moonbaby wrote: WTF?!?!?!?!

And what braniac thought that recording engineers were able to buy expensive mics?!?!?! That's the job of the studios!!!!!!

Engineers absolutely do buy their own mics...favorites to supplement a studio that may not have what they have come to know and trust.

As for the "best kick drum mic" or best anything. You and I could use the exact same mic on a given instrument and get a different result. For example I never mic a hi-hat, because of the way I mic my snare, usually with a KM84. The pattern, placement and EQ work for me with the perfect bleed and tone but, probably not for others.

Kick drum mics will vary with the instrument, type of music, player and even venue. (ie: live vs studio) I prefer an RE20 for 'in the drum placement' and will some times use a U87 for double headed 'outside the drum' placement but, always go to a MD421 in a live 'rock' situation.

p.s. Yes I do think a D112 can be a great kick mic. I use one when I record big band jazz...nice big round sound, lacking in point and forward voicing. The only problem is I have never found another use for it.

Akira wrote: [quote=moonbaby]WTF?!?!?!?!

And what braniac thought that recording engineers were able to buy expensive mics?!?!?! That's the job of the studios!!!!!!

Engineers absolutely do buy their own mics...favorites to supplement a studio that may not have what they have come to know and trust.

As for the "best kick drum mic" or best anything. You and I could use the exact same mic on a given instrument and get a different result. For example I never mic a hi-hat, because of the way I mic my snare, usually with a KM84. The pattern, placement and EQ work for me with the perfect bleed and tone but, probably not for others.

Kick drum mics will vary with the instrument, type of music, player and even venue. (ie: live vs studio) I prefer an RE20 for 'in the drum placement' and will some times use a U87 for double headed 'outside the drum' placement but, always go to a MD421 in a live 'rock' situation.

p.s. Yes I do think a D112 can be a great kick mic. I use one when I record big band jazz...nice big round sound, lacking in point and forward voicing. The only problem is I have never found another use for it.
Just for the record, my comment was meant to be sarcastic. I have been in the recording and live sound biz for over 30 years. My mic collection, as meager as it is, is my most precious tool, hardware-wise. It irked me that professional recording engineers were being thought of as 'rich' by someone who thinks that popping $100 for a kick mic is big money. Plenty of good kick mics are available for under $300, a mere pittance compared to what we are expected to pay for a good vocal mic.

I must be one of them rich engineers then...
I prefer a SoundElux U195 as my kick drum mic.

Short of that, the AT4040 is nice. I owned the D112 and the Beta 52. Notice the word - "owned."

I just didn't like their sound on kick. However, for kick drum, I almost exclusively record small jazz combos. That being said, the tight punch of a LDC is what I desire, not the THUD, THUNK, or THWAK of the LD Dynamics...

i have never used a condenser on a kick drum. this is safe to do? i just assumed the SPL would be way to high to safely use one with out risking damage.

Nah...the SPLs aren't too high.

It's all in how you use the mic.

When I use a condenser for kick drum, the mic does not go inside the kick (although some condensers certainly can handle this, I don't do it for the reasons of potential damage as well as sound).

When I listen to a kick drum as a passive participant, I hear certain aspects. I hear a tight front end (often with high frequency content prevalent at between 1.5kHz and 4kHz) as well as a deep thud (consisting of LF content between 50 Hz and 120 Hz) and the various overtones (of the drum itself as well as the forced resonance of the rest of the kit and the room itself as well as often the floor it's coupled with.)

That all being said, by burying the recording transducer inside the instrument, so much of that sound is lost forever. We make up for it by trying to EQ the hell out of the track instead of just putting the mic where it can pick up a good balance of all of the above.

So, my kick mic technique is simple. I listen to the kit first. If I like the sound of the kick, I try to identify what sounds good about it. Then I place the mic accordingly. Usually, this ends up being anywhere between 6" (15cm) and 18" (45cm) away from the front head (or plane of the head if it's not there) usually about 2/3rds to 3/4 the way up the height of the drum and angled down. I also angle the mic in the horizontal plane to avoid a direct blast of air from the moving head. Usually between 10 and 20 degrees is more than enough without putting it into the mic's critical off-axis plane.

If I don't like the sound of the drum, I try to identify what I don't like about it and try to fix it. Usually this comes down to:

1 - Drum head tension (some people really try to tighten their kick heads too tight. It just sounds dry and uninvolving this way.)
2 - beater (a horribly worn or brand new beater can make the drum sound flabby or obnoxiously tight respectively)
3 - Strike pad. A good strike pad can make a difference in the sound. I use a Remo pad made out of kevlar when I can. It really helps focus the sound of the drum
4 - Damping (not dampening...) - Most people over-damp their kick. They load towels and blankets into the drum to make it sound as tight as possible. For performance in a bad venue, this isn't a bad idea. For recording, it sucks the life out of the drum. If the drum needs a little taming, a small piece of duct/gaffer's tape touching the front or resonant (or possibly both) head and the rim will do just fine

For that last little bit of isolation (if the whole kit or room is too resonant) a blanket over the kick and mic works well.

Was that way too long of an answer to your relatively simple question??? 8)

J.

Thanks for the help.

You know I noticed people on forums go crazy when someone trys to type what they are thinking slightly poorly. Sorry for saying best or w/e didn't mean to cause such a stir.

So I'm gonna go to Sam Ash, my friend works there, maybe he can hook up some mics for me and I'll try them out.

I used an AT2020 on a snare recently. Worked out well...really well actually. Andy

slightly different persepective here... I own a couple of Blue Ball mics (not the Kick Ball, the original blue ones) and, although I prefer them on floor toms, I did use one on a live kick drum once when nothing else was available: I needed to cut lots of 200 and boost lots of 50, but the result was actually quite a solid kick sound. I think if I was in your situation I would probably take a chance with the Kick Ball, as I'm not a big fan of the D112 frankly.

If you do buy one post back and tell us how you like it: I'm tempted to pick one up myself. ;)

6APTAWEB, No hard feelings. You may very well have not meant to use "best" but we only know what you write or we read. And there are many people that do mean to ask the same "best" question that need to better understand how to ask a valid "best" question.

AudioGaff wrote: 6APTAWEB, No hard feelings. You may very well have not meant to use "best" but we only know what you write or we read. And there are many people that do mean to ask the same "best" question that need to better understand how to ask a valid "best" question.

Understandable.

So know that we're talking about mics in general...I don't want to use up another thread...

Can I get some reviews on the Rode NT3. My friend is thinking of buying it and hes gonna use it for guitar and vocals.

6APTAWEB, This thread was about kic mic's. Please start another thread for any new topic or subject.