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Tried a bit of drum Micing last night. One mic pointing at snare just next to the tom. Maybe 6 inches from the snare. This one sounded good.
Another mic on the opposite side of the toms under the cymbal, trying to find a dead zone. This wasn't so great.

Could I/should I try putting an overhead above the right cymbal about 6 feet up (can't go any higher without using the furniture) and pointing at the toms?
Should I add another at the far side above the other cymbal also pointing at the toms, and if I do will I need to pay attention to the phase issues on the snare?

If I matters, the drummer will hopefully have cans on and the acoustics are provided by a wall behind the kit, about a foot thick and made of stone. This maybe changes the OHs sound a bit?

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TheFraz Wed, 03/05/2008 - 05:47

Mic the snare, mic the kic, then throw up two overheads abound a foot or two feet above the kit, over the symbols (well your placement is up to you)

keep it simple. Remember, your over heads are the spot light of the drum kit. they will pick up the snare, the toms, the cymbals, and even the kick.

Why put the mics 6 feet above the kit? this is only going to create a flam between the snare and kick with the over heads.

BobRogers Wed, 03/05/2008 - 09:47

TheFraz wrote: ....Why put the mics 6 feet above the kit? this is only going to create a flam between the snare and kick with the over heads.

Gotta have awfully fast hands for that flam. Sound will take .0053 seconds to go 6 ft.

Oh, and I agree that you should check out the recorderman technique on that clip. Also do a search of this forum for more details. The important issue isn't a noticeable delay - it's a phase shift. The recorderman technique helps with that.

AnomalyAlecB Wed, 03/05/2008 - 11:02

Overheads should usually be condensers.

The PG58 will do "ok" for the instrument mics. You can fool around with where on the set they sound best. I'd say they can get the job done. Focus on bass and snare, then overheads, then toms. Overheads are going to be very iffy with dynamic mics. You may want to just use them as more instrument mics.

Just keep trying new set-ups.

Codemonkey Wed, 03/05/2008 - 11:54

To specify: it's being played upon the chancel within the sanctuary of Knightswood Congregational Church, 12 Dunterlie Avenue, Knightswood, Glasgow, Scotland, UK.
Well, you asked.

Acoustic treatment: band members who stand about doing nothing but absorbing sound waves.
I have a choice of moving the drums in front of a single roof-height (~6m) curtain or leaving them next to a stone wall (reverb?).

And don't fret about not thinking things through. I made a recording of a choir a few weeks ago, using some lousy placement. Why? The choir turned up at, oh, quarter to 7? Gig at 7. Doors open half 6. No information, no anything. Just luck and a bit of help from moonbaby.

TheArchitect Wed, 03/05/2008 - 17:23

Look into the Glyn Johns technique. Essentially you put 1 LD Condensor mic 3-4 ft directly above the snare, just high enough to be out of the drummers way. A second LD condenser mic to the right side about 6" above the floor tome facing the high hat. These 2 mics should be the same distance from the snare. The 3rd mic is for the kick.

I prefer to add a 4th mic under the snare to add a little snap. The condensers are panned L-R to taste and the kick/snare are put right up the middle.

Codemonkey Wed, 03/05/2008 - 17:41

I wouldn't mind a mic under the snare. With a lack of input channels and I don't want to have to mix before recording, probably not a great idea (unless I sacrifice the kick and *gulp* sample it). Although, if I borrow someone's laptop and stick Kristal on it for an afternoon...
Unfortunately, I have 0 condensers, and will probably not touch a condenser in the next decade.

Could always try that with dynamics, and I like the idea of snare centred...

Cucco Wed, 03/05/2008 - 17:52

Here's my beef with using an under-snare mic for live work -

In my experience, this mic needs to be gated. Any resonance from instruments (particulary in the 300-600 Hz octave) will set the snares in motion and it will show up on your mix like mad.

Unless you can seriously work with placement and acoustic issues, this will be a problem.

Codemonkey Wed, 03/05/2008 - 18:06

One reason not to mix pre-recording...As if I need any. I can do without, I prefer non-ringy snares personally, but who knows what the drummer's preference is.

I reckon 2 OH's in some positioning, one on snare, and the kick I'll maybe stick a few feet away and low down, see what happens. I can always move it.

How does the snare mic being 2-3" above the rim of the snare and about 6" away sound?
I would stick the cans on one time and find out but that means micing the whole kit to try and find any phase issues, which won't go down well with the rest of the band. Maybe I can keep them busy with some extremely loudly played recordings of previous performances...

Cucco Thu, 03/06/2008 - 04:51

Two comments Bent -

1 - It's shows like this and girls like this that's one of the big reasons I like being a pit musician... :twisted:

2 - I didn't hear much in the heavy 300-600Hz range that would excite the snares (such as heavy guitar, lots of male voices or my pet peeve - French horn...)

Nice gig though!

Codemonkey Thu, 03/06/2008 - 08:13

Hell, our drummer has a cowbell. The open end points directly across the floor tom. I take it I shouldn't put any mic on the floor tom pointing at the bell, not that it's used much except in lieu of a high note during the chorus. Oh, and he taps the wingnut on the cymbal a few times as well. More 'high notes'.

OHs should pick that up OK I guess?
If it doesn't then I can always borrow someone's laptop for a while and use more mics. That means hijacking the inserts though...hmm...