utter rubish!

Originally posted by lefty:
Today's music no longer needs that fine detailed nuances that major labels strived for in the past

Go for it! Please keep us posted on your career development, and all your major releases.

--Rick

:p: The point i'm trying to make is great gear is fine but you are now left downgrading your quality ..I cant say too much for i'm not an expert .., I don't wanna be either. I don't sell a lot of records by the major standards but I make a decent living . My type of music needs that edge ..,how many times youve listed to music and hear great quality but a lousy generic song. Now if I analyze your point of view ; maybe that pristineness can increase my sales .., who knows . I thought this site was geared to helping the beginner , sem-pro's , and all others learn how to do things .This site is suppose to teach not make you think things are impossible .My mentor the great Gypsy Robinson who taught master P, rolled with Too Short , Hung with Dre and still making waves in urban music . He told me one thing that everyone on this site needs to know " When an expert tell you it can't be done , go out and prove them wrong ". This man 60+ year of age and he showed me how to survive this business even when it seems bleek. So I hope you guys (pros ) start sharing knowledge and help the younger generation .

:p:

As Rick said, Go for it!

....but the "other pair of ears" can hear stuff that you not believe. Any other pair as well.

Get your buddys together and that way you will have others opinions that will help during mastering. Fades, heads, tails, authoring, text, listening on 3 systems...I make about 5 dollars per hr. at the going rate for some of the projects that I get. The others I do free...just not worth hassling over a 20 dollar bill. You would have to get in line for the free stuff. Could take months...as I have them lined up.

If I was in this for the money, I would have sold out long ago. Unless you have a contract with a working studio...this game is financially dead. It is the love of it is all. That is all that is left.

Really, for a night out on the town with a date, you can have your work professionaly mastered because since so many are doing it themselves, the prices are at an all time low. I got beat out the other day because a cat was going to master 80 mins of running time with 19 tracks for 100 dollars. Even offering the gig for 150....did not help.

It may be time to unplug the amp.

I thought this site was geared to helping the beginner , sem-pro's , and all others learn how to do things .

I hope you guys (pros ) start sharing knowledge and help the younger generation .

I gotta agree with Lefty on these two points.

He's obviously not a (big time) pro, and some of his reasoning is incorrect. Okay. So rather than shoot the guy down, PICK HIM UP! Let him know WHY he is incorrect, and explain to him how he can improve. Lefty is RIGHT (no pun intended), we ARE supposed to be here to try to help those with less knowledge than ourselves.

Nobody is perfect and we're all here to share, which means teach and learn. I'm challenging BOTH of you guys to take Lefty under your wing and teach him as much possible information as he can handle.

Lefty deserves much better than "one liners" shot at him by "pros", now doesn't he?

Awright ... now everybody kiss and make up.
Ummm ... ignore that part.

:c:

Originally posted by SonOfSmawg:

.

Lefty deserves much better than "one liners" shot at him by "pros", now doesn't he?

Awright ... now everybody kiss and make up.
Ummm ... ignore that part.

:c:

:w: I am sorry for that remark Lefty. The last thing I want to do is discourage any young person from doing their thing, this is what revolutionized this industry. I do feel, as time goes on, as much as we all fight it, a second set of impartial talented ears and the standards of average listening systems, will find it's practical use in your favor. It is not all fine detail, it is assuring that your creation is heard clearly on most,if not all playback systems. We cool?

--Rick

5 minutes for brainstorming
wow 15 or 20 minutes for the sequence
an additional 15 or 20 for tracking the vocals
5 minutes for mastering
a hit song in less then an hour.
you could make an album a day.

umm......

ok.
no one is shooting him down.
it just appears he has a strange attitude.
he started this thread for some reason.

and just things like "its just a song" kinda
urk me.

he obviosly is into hip-hop.and when ya think about it you might not need mastering for it
since 90 percent of it are ripped off samples
from other "hits" which probably have been mastered by the best around.
simple formula.
take a "hit song" grab a loop from it.
fire up the old mpc.
load an emu sp1200 kit.
and have at it.
as long as all the levels are straight...
mastering may not be all that important.

i dont even want to get started with hip-hop
the direction that music has taken in the last 5 years is damaging.
music is becoming the equivelent of a mcdonalds extra value meal.

sorry if i offend anyone its just "my opinion"

peace

I like the extra value meal! :c:

Ummm ... okay ... an appology and a clarification ... is that "taking him under your wing"???

Guys, try to understand this...

Okay, he's OBVIOUSLY into Rap, Hip Hop, Techno, whatever. It doesn't make a difference. It could be worse ... he could be into Country (Eeeewwww)! Like it or not, IT'S ALL MUSIC!

The point is that you two guys are in a unique position to actually MAKE A DIFFERENCE! We all know that SOME of that music can be created that way, but NOT all of it! You're now insulting Lefty by stereotyping him for his taste in music! Guys, you're PROFESSIONALS! Jeez, before he learns the WRONG way, teach him the RIGHT way! If he thinks everybody is just going to kick him around, then he's going to go hide in his little home studio, be convinced that what he's doing is RIGHT, and churn out more of the crap that you guys obviously have "issues" with!

Have a little patience, show some professionalism, and slowly and clearly explain to him how it can be done much better, for his benefit. Explain some basics, allow him to come back with some questions, answer them along with sharing more concepts, then he will probably ask more, and more, and more ... all of sudden, WADDA YA KNOW ... you discover that the guy is serious, he's actually listening and learning from you, and you're really starting to like him! One day he finally posts, "Yo, dawgs, check it out. A couple of my songs are over on MP3.com". You go over and listen to them ... and you hear your advice is all over them!

Okay, maybe that's a stretch, but maybe it isn't! You never know, maybe Lefty was just never taught properly, but he may be hella gifted! Never judge a book by it's cover ... and never give an aspiring producer the cold shoulder. He's TRYING!

Look, obviously this really bothers me. I don't want to see people on here being treated like I've seen people treated on MOST other audio-related sites. I think we're all a lot better than that. Now I'm not challenging you, I'm BEGGING you, to take this guy under your wing and explain as much to him as you can about the "Rights and Wrongs of Rap", and help to get him on the RIGHT path. I'm absolutely serious, guys. Will you PLEASE do this, FOR ME???

*SOS on his knees*

If you accept, please PM or email him, appologize for what happened in the thread, and let him know that you want to help him in any way that you can. If you don't want to do it, just post onto this thread and let me know, so I can find someone else who will. I don't want Lefty walking away from RO thinking that we're a bunch of assholes.

Mastering is an artform. Sure their are basics but I repeat (for the 100+ time on these forums)

Each tune gets special attention and no two tunes are done the same way. To teach this takes years of experience and a hands on approach. Word can only describe a certain way of doing it.

Ok..Want to Know?

The first thing I do is listen to the tune about 10 times on the big system and make notes. I write down what I like, what I don't like, I put down time markers and I label them. I open the tune in many different files with markers in each depending what I am hearing and listening for. This process takes about 2.5 hours. Next, I put it in the car and have a listen and see if their is anything else that needs to be documented. another 30 to 45 mins. I listen many times and make notes. You can't get it all on one take, especially the way I am going about it. Then I drop the entire file as is to ANALOG. Yes, I do it through the console in analog using outboard equipment. It is much more than eq, compression and limiting. It depends on the tune as well.

Ok...enough, at this point I am into the song about 4.5 hours and I have not even started mastering.

I could also just punch up a waves preset, choose -6dB RMS and let it fly...but I will not.

The next phase just depends on the artist, the song, and what I feel it needs. Each is different, what works for one will not work for another.

I can answer indivigual questions but to explain mastering, do a search. This would go on for over 100,000 words and you would have nothing to hear for example.

Mastering is necessary if you want the best for your product.

Someone want to take it from here?????

Originally posted by SonOfSmawg:
Ummm ... okay ... an appology and a clarification ... is that "taking him under your wing"???

Guys, try to understand this...

The point is that you two guys are in a unique position to actually MAKE A DIFFERENCE! ...

...If he thinks everybody is just going to kick him around, then he's going to go hide in his little home studio, be convinced that what he's doing is RIGHT, and churn out more of the crap that you guys obviously have "issues" with!

Have a little patience, show some professionalism, and slowly and clearly explain to him how it can be done much better, for his benefit. He's TRYING!

;) I detected an approach similar to challenge, in other words (make the term mastering go away because right now I don't understand it, or really even know if I need it) I only understand my beats, and my beats are good, and the edge is critical and doesn't need to be tweaked. My subs and amp are powerful enough not to clip, so nobody else's sub and amp, or Walkman is gonna clip...right?

I suppose this is just his way of digging in, he's watching, he's reading, otherwise he would not have posted. He is interested. Don't think he is going to crawl off into a corner anytime soon. He gives credit already, and will give credit here too, if he learns anything from it.
I have been working with a producer from Atlanta for the last 2 years. He asks questions on everything from signal flow to vocal booths. He is a good composer, but needs mastering, budget is tight, so he shuns away from it. But he knows he needs it. He does limited releases so right now maybe he doesn't, but when you go to air, or press hundreds, your going to want to make sure that it is acceptable. One only has to have 30 seconds of their tune done to realize the advantage. Like I said, if your production runs are small, do the best you can. If they are big, get it mastered, if you are going to bump up a client to a big label, get it mastered. And if you do go to a mastering house, sit in on it, and learn from it.

--Rick

I knew this post was going to get some attention when I read it this morning. At first I was offended , but then I thought about it for a minute and it came to me that lefty will become one of this forums biggest posters. Like anything in life, the less you know, the more it seems the same, Whether it's wine, cigars, cars, boats, etc...I can remember the first time I had a cuban cigar, I thought it tasted just like a white owl. I don't mind people's ignorance because I myself am ignorant in many things. It's the attitude you have that makes all the difference. People that approach this forum with respect, get respect. Those that post with the attitude that what we do and work at every day trying to improve every minute for years and years, is something that anyone can do within a week after reading a manual and buying a program, doesn't get many constructive replies.

No one is saying that what we do, can't be done by others. It's just not as simple and easy as you think it is. If things were that easy, then everyone that drives a car every day should be great race car drivers. one test you can try is to take a Dr. Dre record and compare it to yours. Really listen and see if you can match it. At first you might think that you are close but keep listening over time and keep tweeking your stuff and you will begin to hear the differences. The first time i mastered a record, I thought I did a pretty good job. It wasn't until years later when I ran across it and popped it in, that I realized that I wasn't as good as i thought I was at that time.

There is a lot to learn here for everyone. The moderators here are FREEEEE. We don't get paid and you don't have to pay. So when you post, keep this in mind and the replies will be meaningful and helpful.

Great replies, guys, thank you!

:c:

Ok , let me clear myself up for those who insinuated my missive. I only said mastering was overrated. Yes anyone can have a song sequenced in 5 to 15 minutes. Geniuses are not needed . If you have a Triton , Motif, Proteus , whatever sound device that's midi compatible . I did not say mixing took 5 to 15 minutes ( read again if you did , or get a your GED).
Mixing can take me anywhere from a day and a half to 4 days . I run my midi through a Focusrite Mic pre , thru a compressor normally at a ratio of 4:1 on everything only adjusting the threshold according to the effect of the compressor on that particular sound .Then I start with the kick around -5 sometimes -7. then bring the main vocals set the level of the two. now use your analyzer and see the lowest frequency of the kick; boost it about 7db. Then I use a low-pass on the kick and go down to about 240hz. The kick will now have a punchy warm fuzzy sound and itll be out of the way of other instruments .This is just a start of how I mix my music .
And for those who think I dont master : I do . It can take me about 4 to 8 hours to do this . But most of my time is spent trying someting and hitting the bypass button. it may sound good at first , but when you go back and forth it may ironically worse .
To make a long story short , the better your mix the less has to be done in mastering . and since everything is recorded in the same studio , the levels are very close . And for those who think all urban music studios sample loops , I dont . I may sample a snare or kick and trigger it midi. THATS IT!! .
Obviously NUTEKK is a " NEW TECH Rookie". And my advice to him is It's never the gear , just the person behind it .
Fact 1: Most major studios use interns on
independent artist . so dont be fooled
Fact 2:Bill Roberts is one of the few guys on
here even though he tries to drum up
business give the right advice that you
can use
Fact 3: The Mixing Engineer's handbook give
you way more information than the
Mastering Engineers Handbook
Fact 4: Basic Mastering has way more info and
how to's that Mastering Engineer's
Handbook.
Like I said before it's just a song . I'm happy to say that I consider myself a non-pro because I refuse to get caught up in analog vs. digital, Mac vs. Pc , SSL vs. Pro tools.., you get the picture .., I can mix and master and compare it to whats out there and feel satisfied .., t he money I save goes in the bank .. AND ONE THING TO PONDER.., who says it takes 20 years to attain a good set of ears .,what doctor told you this ? :confused:

WARNING : Please don't feel sorry for LEFTY . He makes a dencent living doing it fulltime in his basement.Please feel free to feel sorry for those who spent astronomical figures on SSl boards and have to drop their rates to stay in business and still paying the note .

TO RICK HAMMANG;
Dude Those guys never even heard my stuff. Matter of fact I met with Universal a few months ago and theyre interested ,but since they can't guarantee me a "FIRM" release on my artists I had to pass . I have to keep money coming in to pay all my bills .If the label never release an album, the advance is all you have till you are released from the contract ..,I posted the post to let people realize mastering is needed but some guys on here act like theyre on acid or something. Once you know how to master it's not a big deal.., why do you think everyone is doing it themself

A) Rick, I took a look at your page. Nice little trip through the years.

B) NutekK ... "Under Construction". Bummer.

C) Lefty ... in a previous post, I made mention of MP3.com. LOL but at the time I hadn't yet looked at your Bio. It says there that you DO actually have stuff on MP3.com! :) Cool coincidence. Prob is that it's not a link, it's just text. Would you post a link so that I can hear your stuff? I'd really like to hear what you've got going on!

D) EVERYBODY ... Okay, I'm the site administrator. One of my responsibilities is to settle any problems that happen in the forums. I wandered into this thread because I didn't like the vibe that was going on here.

Now, some shyte happened here that I really don't like to see. There's no reason to be putting other people down, insulting, or getting rude with one another. I thought that it was especially out-of-line to stereotype Lefty because one of his areas of interest is Rap. That just was not cool.

NutekK and Lefty, you guys are new here, so I'm assuming that you're not familiar with the atmosphere on RO, so I'm going to fill you in a little...

If you've been to other audio sites, I'm sure you've seen the sort of shyte that went on in this thread today on all of those sites. Well, RO isn't that sort of a site. This isn't just some hang-around site where guys try to out-do each other to inflate their egos. We don't tolerate it here, at all. That's why I've been all over this thread today.

RO is closely monitored to ensure that RO remains a peaceful, enjoyable place for musicians and producers of all levels to share information without having to fear the "repercussions" that are normally suffered on audio sites for asking a "stupid question". If I see a member displaying counter-productive, nasty behavior repeatedly, toward ANYONE or EVERYONE, I ban them from the site. There are over 10,000 members trying to peacefully share here, so if that vibe is disrupted, it upsets EVERYONE. Our members like the relaxed vibe here, so we keep it that way for them.

So, that having been said ... shyte was flying in all directions here today, and I'm sure it really wasn't fun for anyone involved, so put this behind you, and don't put yourselves through this kind of stuff again. I DO NOT get paid for what I do here, so the fact that you "professionals" couldn't act "professional" with each other wasted a lot of my free time. As long as it doesn't happen again, I'm just writing it off as a bad day.

NOW PLAY NICE BOYS AND GIRLS ... I mean PROFESSIONALS!

New guys ... enjoy the site. The normal non-threatening atmosphere here may be strange to you at first, if you're used-to other audio sites, but you'll quickly learn to love it.

PEACE :p:

SONOF..,
There's no beef at all.., I want these guys to speak their mind , that produce honest and creative results . I respond to all who coment and I do respect their comment .., Ive been on this site for a while but I see how people judge without even hearing my work. Yes I may downplay my experience for I believe if you truly love engineering it's not as difficult as people make it out to be. Almost anyone can learn mixing and mastering and no I don't think it takes 20 year to learn it ., Someone took me under their wings and taught me very well to do what I do now .I just wnat these guys to get back to teaching . Just because I do Hip Hop don't mean Ive never done any other genre . Hip hop is what pays the bills for me (housenote car notes and all), and if these guys don't get hip to how the industry is changing , they will find themself out of business.

well...

its relative to whom your comparing me with if i am a "new tech rookie " or not.

anyway..
i never said "you sample" i said 90 percent
of hip hop/R & B (is there a difference anymore...they seem to have melded into a hybrid form) take samples from "hits"
and to me this is a "safe" way to make a song that will sell. it doesnt realy further the art
and at this point it surely cant be innovative.

now im not talking about all..
im just sayin the music that reaches the masses
on radio and video are primarily this way.

even dr. dre knows the value of a mastering engineer (Brian Gardner)

if you dont want or need a mastering engineer for your work that is your call.

all i can speek from is my experiance...
i have been making music for a bit over 10 years..
an coincindentaly i went "pro" when i started using a mastering engineer for my mixes.
and they have only gottin better since.i sit in on sessions and he gives me advice on what to look out for...and check this frequency ect....ect..

A)my room isnt set up to reveal these flaws

b)i may be able to here something wrong but knowing how to correct it is another story.

c)i dont have enouph speakers/knowledge/expertise
to make sure it translates.

d) i write/sound design/mix all the music myself
another mind/view of the project broadens it...to me

anyway if you got a sit down with universal...
you are doing everything right...
there are exceptions to every rule

if i seemed a bit out of line this mornig i do apologies for that.

but you did have a bit of "english" on your post
that is what i picked up on.

anyway good luck on future projects
peace!

NUTEKK,
I use mastering , of course I do but even when I present my lawyer with mixes that I consider un-finished she passes them on to labels and they like some and don't like others. I have so many books on mastering .Yes I love what mastering does that's why I learned how to do it myself ; and for others who love audio period I recomend they learn about it , even if they dont take on that DIY approach they can benefit from handing in mixes that are mastering friendly. Ive only been mastering for 3 year and yes i'm always trying to learn something . Hip hop may not be the ultimate genre for this site I know . And personally the best mastering ive heard is mainly in country music ( with those silky vocals). So if I offended yo I apologize :next time ill ask questions instead of get everone's panties up in a bunch.. One question I do have for everyone . To get more clarity in a 2 track mix, are there any other techniques aside from reducing the bass frequencies and cutting between 300 to 900 hz?????????????

I see how people judge without even hearing my work.

Again ... go over to Mp3.com, copy the link, paste it here. That can be done in five minutes, tops. If it's good, then that'll obviously lend to your credibility, given that you have been the person who has been adamant about not needing someone else to master your music and making bold claims about not needing 20 years to be able to do it well. I believe the cliche is "Put your money where your mouth is". Post your stuff, prove them wrong!

I just wnat these guys to get back to teaching.

LOL well they don't get paid to teach here, they're just participants, just like you. It's up to them whether they want to take their time to teach someone. If they don't like someone's attitude, then they're not going to donate their free time to teach them. That simple.
Also, go back and read your first post in this thread. Your attitude and bold statements didn't exactly scream-out "teach me". Am I wrong?

if these guys don't get hip to how the industry is changing , they will find themself out of business.

Anybody who owns a relatively large studio is hip to how the whole business is changing, trust me. Why do you thing so many top notch pros have time to post and/or moderate on RO? LMAO
With DAWs becoming common in so many musicians arsenals, a lot of the studios have had to re-focus their business around mastering. You're hip to the business, so I'm sure you know this. So, when you wrote your first post in this thread, you should have known that you'd be hitting a sore spot with the studio guys here.

SONOF..,
right now im laughing to myself .., I should have been more sensitive to these guys feelings. Yes DAW has helped people get ahead of the game. Me included .See I was one of those people that if it wasnt for waves , computers , sound cards , sound modules , and midi. I would have never even of thought of creating my own studio much less a label. Sorry if guys like us are getting by with minimal equiptment. I do respect what yall have done for the industry , but please respect rap music it is not as bad as you think.Technology has made it affordable for us to co-exist with you guys .I promise next time i'll be more considerate

I just want to make some points, not argumentative but points nevertheless.

First of all, from 1993 to 1999, I was very heavy involved with rap. Groups that I did entire productions of:

Gregory D
Mo Tension
Perion da Dom
Roy Jones Jr. and the PG's
LED & Wood
Blakk
Cheeky Black
G Money
La Git
C lowe
Ruthless Juveniles
P playazz
Nashan
Shadowyze
Ride out cummings
Wydell
12 souljahs

These are just albums off the top of my head, probably over 250 artist of demo songs. Recording, Mixing and driving 200 miles away to another cats mastering facility for diversity.

First of all realize. 300 to 900 hZ is an octave and a half of music out of the useable 7 octaves out of the total of 10 octaves of audio aval.

One reason this freqency range is omitted special attention is that it takes one hell of an accurate louspeaker to reproduce this properly with speed. Most speakers are muddy as hell in that range. So...it don't sound good, turn it down...no, I say get some loudspeakers that can show you how to fit it in.

Another thing, I go light with bus compression. Usually the lead vox, the backing ad libs and the bass line will see some compression but not much. I rely on the compression I use in mastering to make up for what I want in the mix. I do not mix it to sound killer, I mix it to sound killer after mastering. Mastering plays the largest role in my chain of events. The way you described your mix technique would mean I would need to do some decompression of the two mix, then I could master it.

Well, that is about all I can say..look at the time.

In my forum, you can upload a tune.

You will see countless examples where I have taken folks songs (that were mp3's actually) and either mastered or remastered them and the differences were enough that I got very positive vibes from the artists. Some of the artist said that they never thought it was possible to get it to sound like that, others have rejuvinated their music involvement after my mastering because they found out...hey, this is the key.

All I can do really is show by example that can be heard. I will say this, Universal has done some very shitty remastering lately. I am not naming names but look at the butcher job on Motowns 25 years of hits series. Sounds like total ass, all of them. To have Bob O.'s work destroyed like that is a total injustice. Not all mastering engineers are the same. This I can assure you and I cannot even recommend some of the greats anymore as they have been overshadowed by people like Me, Mike, Doug and Don who give a shit to take it to the very best level it can be. I just don't want all the blood sweat and tears and years I have been doing this to fade into the memory books and be replaced with a bunch ofplug-insand "approved presets". Understanding the protocol in the way consumer electronics is designed to work with the signal and the way consumer speakers are set up, you don't have to cut the 300-900hZ to get good sound, you simply have to shape it so it fits properly in phase and does not acentuate muddiness and those valuable freqencies can be heard properly. Never have I received more projects than now that I deem "unmasterabloe" because "pre-mastering" 2-bus compression was used in the mix and basically, you have little to work with at that point. Everything you do makes it worse and it was never Phat to begin with. Read some of my responses in Audio Projects. The rubber meets the road with the SOUND> I dig Big Tone!

Matter of fact, I registered the Name BIG TONE not long ago. I think I might start using it with my biz.

I hope I have been helpful as my first reponse in this thread was to get your buddies ears in on your mastering. I did not say it couldn't be done, I am saying, why bother when you have it at your fingertips now at rates that are laughable.

Lefty, one way to clear up mixes is with or without compression. by playing with different compression settings on different elements, you can get things to stand out and breath to let other things have some room. If your using moderate to heavy compression on most things, then your not giving much room for other elements. One reason your having to cut these low mid freqs is because your using heavy compression which brings up these freqs and crowds your mix. If it's taking 4 days to mix a song, then there are probably some things you can change in your tracking stage that will speed up your mixes and sound better in the long run. From your previous post, you seem to have formulas for certain tracks. This is helpful for speed and consistancy but you'd might be better off trying some different things to see what it can do for you. I've done tons of hip hop and started fairly early in it and the thing I liked most about it in the early stages was that it was breaking the rules. Expirementation was the name of the game. Hip hop is suffering now because everyone with a mpc60 and protools is cranking out so much stuff that is poor at best. Same sounds, same approach, not much new. Hip hop is in a stall and it's about to change, Like the whole industry is changing. (oops, got off on a tangent).

Other things to clear up a mix can be as simple as cables and as complex as a/d and new speakers. The better quality your chain, the less you have to eq and compress. Mixing on certain monitors will yield different results.

Hmmm ... but still no link to the music (?).

Hey mr Smawg ,
I am happy with the results I am getting ; therefore I don't need the approval of your members especially when they call Motown and rap music garbage . How can I be judged by guys who dont like the way the industry is going .Matter of fact , there are rules in mixing and mastering rap. I rarely use compression on the bus . I treat each track individually .
A lot of acts are now incorporating rap and hip hop to their music;
Lincoln Park
Korn
Sum 41
Rage
to name a few . So I pray that you guys at least learn the rules of rap before yall end up headlining at my grandmothers nursing home . Equiptment like Weiss, Manley , Langvin, Sonic, Universal Audio are great but software now allow the poor man to stay competitive in the music game ..
Question??? Have any of you guys mastered music with software . If so which ones?

hmm
see this is the attitude i detected...
and its typical.
thats funny no compression on the bus for rap!
rap(in its current state) is some of the most...hm whats the politicaly right term...
ahh
"Dynamicly challenged" music on earth

bad attitude....

Maybe it's the compressor at the radio station youre hearing .., Have any of you guys ever bought a real rap record?? I can recommend a few for those who wanna see how they process it.
Techn9ne's Absolute Power
R kelly's Chocolate Factory
50 cent's get rich or die trying
Eve's ablum Evolution
Eminem (any one)
each of these album has diffrent styles to it . Matter of fact one of the best producers in the business now is Quincy Jones' son QD111.

I don't need the approval of your members especially when they call Motown and rap music garbage .

How can I be judged by guys who dont like the way the industry is going .

at least learn the rules of rap before yall end up headlining at my grandmothers nursing home .

Lefty, you were warned last night about the decorum on this site. The above excerpts from your "introductory post of the evening" are abrasive and adversarial. That will not be tolerated here.

Lefty,
what are you doing? You are going to turn all these guys against you. Lets try a different approach here.

SOS mentioned

Hmmm ... but still no link to the music (?)

Fats sez to Lefty, .... hmmm what was that saying??? Put up or????

Michael, that was much better-said than my post. Thank you.

Moderating this thread consumed eight hours of my time yesterday, so I guess I'm a little on-edge. At the end of that eight hours yesterday, I thought that Lefty had some sort of understanding about the atmosphere on RO, and about how to treat people, but when he came back today it was if he hadn't heard a word of it, and my eight hours was a total waste of time. I should have chosen wording more like yours.

LEFTY ... I'm going to be totally straight with you, and I hope that you can understand why I MUST say this.

The attitude that you have been displaying with us is totally transparent. We all can tell by the things that you have posted that you have very limited knowledge in the field of audio recording, but if you approach the people here with the attitude that you want to learn, rather than with the attitude that you know better than them, you will be much more likely to get the help that you originally were asking about. Suggesting that we get wise to YOUR way of doing things is utterly ridiculous. You've obviously learned bad habits and the wrong way to do things from those who have mentored you, whether you choose to accept that or not. It's your choice. You can either open your mind to learning to do things correctly, or you can go right on kidding yourself. The fact that I've asked you several times to post a link to your music, and that you've made defensive excuses not to do so, should be an indicator to you that you do not have the confidence in your music that you SAY you do.

I'll be awaiting your next post. I sincerely hope it comes with an open mind to learning, and a more humble attitude. A bit of thanks to all of us who've spent many hours of our time trying to help you to understand your position couldn't hurt, either.

Greetings Friends!!

Let's get back to the "crux of the buscuit" as Mr Zappa said.

I do mastering on lots of Hip Hop & have for many years. The idea of validity of mastering for HH is just as true as for any type of music. Mastering is NOT about removing the edge of the music. I master alternative Rock that has to be edgy. But the vocals still have to be heard (if that's what the artist wants). The guitars still have to cut through. If the bass isn't tight & the vocals don't get the message across in the Hip Hop track, it will not sell. You still want the strings to stand out, the synth to carry the melody, etc....

It IS about getting each piece of music to it's fullest potential. You can useplug-insor Weiss & Neve. If it works in the clubs & on the radio & people buy it Then it's a good mastering job.

That's why I keep saying that the kind of equipment you use is not relevant!

Others have suggested that if you really want to do it yourself, just start & keep comparing your work to what you love that's out there. Not a bad idea.

Let's get the music to sound better.

To everyone I've offended I apologize for hurting your feelings..I love music just as much as you guys . I only been on here 2 years and in that time I've learned an awful lot. I am a knowledgable outspoken person that not only make music but market it to radio and the buying public . I just got an add to radio one station 92q for april 3rd. So I guess my music fit the radio format. I will keep you posted on more adds I get .
The single is that of a 10 year old female rapper named Lee Lee. Can someone tell me the diffrence between mastering for rock music as opposed to rap

There is no difference between mastering rock or hip hop. Just understand and feel the vibe, then make it sound great. Simple.....

Probably the main difference is ass-kickin' bass and getting the lyrics to where they are easily understood. A good rap tune should be like good poetry with a kickass in the pocket groove and some new innovative samples or live loops so that it doesn't sound like everything else coming down the pike. Most importantly find a rapper who has something to say that's worth saying. Some mixes may need to be "in your face" while others may demand a gentler approach. It's all about feel and what's right for a particular tune.

Remember, the music the parents grew up on, is the music their children threw up on!

No wait, the music the children grow up on, is the music the parents throw up on.

No wait...

Umm yea ,, Im a super newbie, I am only 22 years old. But I dont agree with Lefty. I have tried that whole "try and make your cd sound like your fav". It was a disaster for me, and all I ended with was a bad sounding cd, and much respect for ME's.

I took {Blood Sugar Sex Magic}, and put it beside my {Muddy Signal Crap Garbage}.

I decided that Rick Rubin knew what he was doing. And I didnt

Hats off to the mastering guys, I respect it. Although I think some of it is wayyyy over priced.

Hey Smawg,
How about an area on this site where people can go to slam each other! Can't do it anywhere else, but you can do it there - sorta like a "oh yeah, well how about we take this outside" or "meet me after school at the playground, and I'll kick your ass" Let's step over to the (&^% forum and I'll tell you what I really think. Just an idea. But seriously, I appreciate the way this site strives to be friendly (I think you do a good job of it). I'm actually halfway serious about my idea though.

Rob

Rob,
We have that here. It's called Private Messaging... Fats..