Well, when I pop one up on my computer screen, it's mostly to entertain the client. Makes it a bit more exciting to see all of that stuff dancing around. it also makes for better room pics like when a studio turns all of their outboard gear on even though they probably only use half of it.

Why would anybody use a RTA otherwise? :D Now, the Harbal software is not RTA but a multi-band filter, one which uses the spectrum of another recording to apply linear phase equalization. It does a very different thing from what I do, period. Do you now want to talk technical terms with me? You never ever do, not with me not with anyone. You usually post on every mastering forum promotional letters of your services, telling everybody one way or the other that you did something that makes you a great ME and always what you do is usually "great". I sincerely doubt that. In addition, telling the world that you have the necessary equipment, wouldn't make you that either. Hanging out and posting everyday on forums, won't make you one either. Having said all that, let's put an end to your nonsensical personal attacks and insinuations once and for all, and let's have Michael F. give us both something to master, and let's see who makes it really sound "great". You do it in your studio, I'll do it with the guidance of RTA's in my "ghost" studio. Let's do this or shut the hell up. I have no more patience for you.

Thomas W. Bethel wrote: EV

No one said you could NOT LOOK AT AN RTA but NO ONE USES an RTA to make eq adjustments EXCEPT YOU and the people who use HARBAL.

Your ears are what you should use for mastering and you should let you eyes do things they were designed to do like photoshopping a picture to use on your website.

Why would anyone want to "fill in the blanks" or "take down the overs" looking at an RTA when that MAYBE part of the music you are trying to master.

and

WOW those really are some very nice rooms!!!!! too bad we never see a picture of your room.

duplicate

music_guy wrote: Why would anybody use a RTA otherwise?

Real Time Analyzers were originally designed to aid studio owners in controlling the potential problem areas in their rooms. An RTA along with a good measurement microphone enabling the proprietor to strategically place diffusers and absorbers rather than haphazardly throwing up treatment where it looks nice.

You had to ask. There is your answer.

Incidentally, for the four studios that you knew of in your area(assuming..yes I know about assuming) you post pictures of full studios but for your own studio example a close up of the monitor. Why? Surely you are not ashamed of your room? It's ok to gloat about your space. You spent the money and time on it. Show it off.

Robin Schmidt from Germany who I believe admitted 'glancing at it sometimes' - makes me wonder why he has it in the picture in the first place if he doesn't really use it too much

I don't want to speak for Robin, but he's been here more than once. He's worked in this room for that matter. He never asked where the RTA was (even in an unfamiliar space). He can tell the difference between "2" and "3" on the Pentode control on the HEDD. I'm quite certain he doesn't need to rely on a RTA (unless he's shooting a room).

Keeping one "running in the background" is one thing - When I have WaveLab up, the RTA is there. Even a small one is running in the corner when I'm running Samplitude. Generally ignored, but reasonably handy with attended sessions. The clients like the flashy things.

That all said - In photos of my place I very clearly have images of things that I hardly ever use - My secondary monitors, DA's that I don't use typically, EQ's that get used once a month, compressors that get used three or four times a year, etc. They're tools. I have a photo of my turntable. I have a Phillips DCC deck on my gear list. When was the last time I used it...? Maybe 2000? 2001? I don't even remember.

Bringing up photos of places with RTA's in the picture don't hold water. Photos are made to look "cool." I know bands who go into studios just to take photographs standing in front of $8,000 microphones. I know engineers that can barely manage a four-track cassette recorder that have photos of themselves sitting at a 4000G on their websites.

But it's a freaking meter. I have a correlation meter running too (as if I needed it to tell me that there are phase issues in a recording...). I have level meters running (as if I needed them to tell me how loud a recording is). They're there to make sure something is NOT happening much more than if something IS happening.

I don't advise musicians to invest time learning it.

(Sigh...) As if it takes some special skill to look at a meter...?

seeing those displays, it looks like everyone is listening to the same song.

I don't want to speak for Robin, but he's been here more than once. He's worked in this room for that matter. He never asked where the RTA was (even in an unfamiliar space).

For historical purposes, Massive mastering made the same contentious comments against RTA's and anyone who might be accustomed to use professional analysis tools. Now Massive, your experience with Mr. Schmidt doesn't make it a "typical" mastering session, does it? However, knowing how you have ridiculed any one trying to use a RTA in any way, shape or form is not IMHO, going to encourage Mr. Schmidt to even request to look at a basic stereo phase scope. He has read, I am sure, all the negativityyou left on the subject at Gearslutz.com.

Keeping one "running in the background" is one thing - When I have WaveLab up, the RTA is there. Even a small one is running in the corner when I'm running Samplitude. Generally ignored, but reasonably handy with attended sessions. The clients like the flashy things.

I find this statement very funny indeed :) . Another one for the record 8-)

Bringing up photos of places with RTA's in the picture don't hold water. Photos are made to look "cool."

That's your opinion, to me, there is nothing 'cool' about a RTA display on a computer monitor compared to the real cool equipment and the room itself. Instead of making assumptions as to why studio owners choose to have them in their studio pictures, you should call those places up and speak directly and frankly with those chief mastering engineers. Hey, you might just learn that they do it all the time. But, it doesn't matter what you tell me anyway. The point really is you use one as much as you need to and as frequently according to your personal experience with them. Don't try to make me look like someone who is completely off base because 'I use it more than you do or others'. Have some basic respect for my opinions and just leave it at that.

But it's a freaking meter. I have a correlation meter running too (as if I needed it to tell me that there are phase issues in a recording...)

Again, that's an analysis tool. Don't use it then, not if you imply that you don't need one.

I have level meters running (as if I needed them to tell me how loud a recording is). They're there to make sure something is NOT happening much more than if something IS happening.

Hello Massive? that's one of the logics of using RTA's.

I don't advise musicians to invest time learning it.

(Sigh...) As if it takes some special skill to look at a meter...?

maybe not to you because you have the golden ears and you never use one other than to impress clients with the lights, well, then again not really :roll: At this point I am just going to allow you to fall flat on your back with the above comments. OK?

The point is not about who is right, but about acknowledging the utility of all analysis tools. I don't understand what's the big deal.

The "big deal" is you assuming that your methodology is the only correct one and that everyone else should bow to your obviously superior knowledge.

No, I'm not an ME but if you sent me comments on a project I had sent you I would ask for a return of the materials, I would pay the post, and find someone else who is interested in applying their skills to the project as is.

And whether you think this correct or not, I prefer to see the mastering room. It means more to me than any tracking facility.

In tracking, you can work around problems with the room, in mastering, not so much.

Davedog wrote: The "big deal" is you assuming that your methodology is the only correct one and that everyone else should bow to your obviously superior knowledge.

Hmmm. I am glad I took this week off and I can respond, so let's try to get it over by Friday, shall we? :) First, let me say that I believe that you are not being fair with your comments here. I have stated two basic thoughts in this whole thread and again that's just my opinion and nothing more so let me have it: Great mixing IS the secret to great mastering, or at least 90% the battle. Even this can be misinterpreted, for instance, when mastering hard rock material as opposed to jazz or instrumental pieces, the mix given to you with plenty of headroom will change sonically at full scale. There are frequencies that need to be tweaked all across the spectrum. Someone can make it loud one way, and another ME his or her way, but one is going to sound better. The differences are experience and skill. Yes, good equipment and monitoring environment helps as well and I want to make this clear. Second, I was trained by my teacher to interpret analysis tools early on in my career. I don't want to drop names, but he was one legendary engineer in NYC. Obviously, he used them as well. Look, I am not hear to prove anything, but I certainly won't allow some people to disrespect and distort my comments or ideas again. I just want a fair discussion and let other users make their own conclusions.

No, I'm not an ME but if you sent me comments on a project I had sent you I would ask for a return of the materials, I would pay the post, and find someone else who is interested in applying their skills to the project as is.

That is your prerogative. But, is this really you talking or your ego? Assuming that you really wanted me to master something you have done, then you should just pay no attention to my comments. All you do then is to send me an email saying: "Dear ME proceed with the mastering as is". Then, you pay for the job and end of the story, I'll do the best that I can for your mix.

And whether you think this correct or not, I prefer to see the mastering room. It means more to me than any tracking facility.

In tracking, you can work around problems with the room, in mastering, not so much. Agreed.

The only ego I have personally is serving the song and the client.

I wouldnt be sending materials that I tracked that dont have the headroom and the space to BE mastered.

Yes, tonality and space change with additional things added at the end....that goes without saying, in a mastering room with the proper monitoring and the sound under control, dealing with this shouldnt be an issue. And certainly one where the aspect of a graph isnt going to point these things out any clearer than your ears.

Faulty as a set of ears may be....or human as has been put, the results are going to listened to by more of the same and certainly not that many well-trained ones.....this isnt meaning to say leave in anomolies that are obvious, but music in general is full of anomolies and the brain has its own way of filtering out those that tend to set the musical aspects off in the wrong direction.

While a digital picture of the goings on of a track of music may be accurate, it may not be musical.

This has been the contention ever since the digital age began as opposed to the analog capturing of sound on tape with supposedly inferior electronics. Adding certain types of distortion and intermodulation within boundaries brings a realness and warmth to music that cannot be denied its existance and its actions on enduser's pleasure in listening.

Which is better?

Only the humanly inaccurate ear can tell.

music_guy wrote: Why would anybody use a RTA otherwise? :D Now, the Harbal software is not RTA but a multi-band filter, one which uses the spectrum of another recording to apply linear phase equalization. It does a very different thing from what I do, period. Do you now want to talk technical terms with me? You never ever do, not with me not with anyone. You usually post on every mastering forum promotional letters of your services, telling everybody one way or the other that you did something that makes you a great ME and always what you do is usually "great". I sincerely doubt that. In addition, telling the world that you have the necessary equipment, wouldn't make you that either. Hanging out and posting everyday on forums, won't make you one either. Having said all that, let's put an end to your nonsensical personal attacks and insinuations once and for all, and let's have Michael F. give us both something to master, and let's see who makes it really sound "great". You do it in your studio, I'll do it with the guidance of RTA's in my "ghost" studio. Let's do this or shut the hell up. I have no more patience for you.

[quote=Thomas W. Bethel]EV

No one said you could NOT LOOK AT AN RTA but NO ONE USES an RTA to make eq adjustments EXCEPT YOU and the people who use HARBAL.

Your ears are what you should use for mastering and you should let you eyes do things they were designed to do like photoshopping a picture to use on your website.

Why would anyone want to "fill in the blanks" or "take down the overs" looking at an RTA when that MAYBE part of the music you are trying to master.

and

WOW those really are some very nice rooms!!!!! too bad we never see a picture of your room.

I don't have to impress you our your alter ego "Itsmeagainjoe" (Joe Rodriguez). You also dodge a great many questions especially about your "room") and your equipment. Why is it so hard for you to post a picture of your room? (Do you even have a mastering room?) and/or list your equipment? You talk the big talk how about showing us what you have to offer the potential client.

You freely post pictures of other people's rooms on line why not yours?

Whenever you start to post you create a controversy and some very heated discussions and it is growing very tiresome. Your alter ego Joe just got banned from Gearslutz for multiple infractions and it has returned to being a nice professional forum.

This is a professional forum start acting like a professional and not some 14 year old troll. You are making yourself look very foolish to say the least.

If you like to use an RTA and feel comfortable using it then DO IT! If you want to take out all the hills and valleys in a RTA display and call it mastering then DO IT! It you want to make up ways of doing things that no one else does then DO IT! It is NOT the correct way to do things but if it makes you happy DO IT! BUT PLEASE DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE!

Could we please get back on topic and quit the pissing contest(s) Thanks!

Keep going Thomas, you really know I have "an alter ego". Very nice and this is completely new and out of the blue from you :) ..I now really wonder what 'he' will say when he finds out that you have tampered with some text to make fun of us...Maybe he will be cool and understanding of your motives, whatever they are. :oops:
This is nothing new and I apologize to all readers. But, you all now get to read Thomas as he really is personally and without trying to hide his true tactful, thoughtful and 'professional' behavior. :oops: What new other personal attacks or negative comments are you going to make up to save face on your next post? As I said, let's have Michael give us something to master, a very difficult mix would be better and let's see who makes it sound like a master, otherwise, once again, stop your nonsense. Go to another thread to convince people that you are a 'great' ME. As for me, Michael I had enough of this, email me if this character wants a shoot-out with me.

Thanks to all and sorry again...Now Thomas comes back to insult me some more and to dodge my challenge. 8-)

music_guy: you back pedal and %90+ of the people here don't agree with you. Including those with pictures of their studios on their sites. You do realize you are making a fool of yourself and your business? People who search for "mastering" on this (popular) site will stumble upon this thread. Think about that.

Questions have been raised about the validity of your business which you refuse to answer. You are swimming against a waterfall just because you want to be right. It's ok to be wrong once in a while. In fact admitting when you're wrong tends to garner respect. Think about that.

Of course I know you will never back down. That is your nature. Otherwise you would have admitted to your faux pas already.

The funny thing is, you don't even have to be "wrong." You can simply state that this is YOUR preference for mastering and is clearly not a popular or even common practice for mastering. Of course, it wouldn't hurt to retract your previous enforcements that this is a superior means to master, but let's take it one step at a time.

If you don't have pictures of your mastering suite, that's not the end of the world, but maybe just listing some specifics of the gear you use. I have no beef with mastering engineers using digital plug-ins as their source of mastering tools, but if this is the case, at least be honest. Hell, that's all I use now. But, then again, I don't proclaim to be an awesome mastering engineer.

Cheers-
J.

hueseph wrote: music_guy: you back pedal and %90+ of the people here don't agree with you. Including those with pictures of their studios on their sites. You do realize you are making a fool of yourself and your business? People who search for "mastering" on this (popular) site will stumble upon this thread. Think about that.

Questions have been raised about the validity of your business which you refuse to answer. You are swimming against a waterfall just because you want to be right. It's ok to be wrong once in a while. In fact admitting when you're wrong tends to garner respect. Think about that.

Of course I know you will never back down. That is your nature. Otherwise you would have admitted to your faux pas already.

You are a moderator? Good!...let your unprofessional comments remain here too. I am the one laughing and I am sure all my clients who by accident read all your nonsense are going to laugh just as hard as I am, but at you and all the incompetents that have misconstrued all my comments with the intention to make me look like I have done something wrong or that I am saying things that are irrational or irrelevant to audio. Since nobody could prove the obsolescence of analysis tools, you apparently need to discredit me too. I tell you what, how about this? I will never tell you or any of you how my set up looks like and I really am never going to disclose any pictures for you, happy now? And if you are really desperate like Thomas to know where my studio is, call Timeless Mastering and ask for its owner, Adrian Morgan. Ask him if there is a guy that rented the room next door or #201 at the music building to do mastering, OK? There are only 2 mastering suites so he will know of me. Goodbye.

At Cucco..thanks for being civil, Sir. 8-)

music_guy wrote: [quote=hueseph]music_guy: you back pedal and %90+ of the people here don't agree with you. Including those with pictures of their studios on their sites. You do realize you are making a fool of yourself and your business? People who search for "mastering" on this (popular) site will stumble upon this thread. Think about that.

Questions have been raised about the validity of your business which you refuse to answer. You are swimming against a waterfall just because you want to be right. It's ok to be wrong once in a while. In fact admitting when you're wrong tends to garner respect. Think about that.

Of course I know you will never back down. That is your nature. Otherwise you would have admitted to your faux pas already.

You are a moderator? Good!...let your unprofessional comments remain here too. I am the one laughing and I am sure all my clients who by accident read all your nonsense are going to laugh just as hard as I am, but at you and all the incompetents that have misconstrued all my comments with the intention to look like I have done something wrong or that I am saying things that are irrational or irrelevant to audio. Since any of you couldn't prove the obsolescence of analysis tools, you apparently need to discredit me too. I tell you what, how about this? I will never tell you or any of you how my set up looks like and I really am never going to disclose any pictures for you, happy now? And if you are really desperate like Thomas to know where my studio is, call Timeless Mastering and ask for its owner, Adrian Morgan. Ask him if there is a guy that rented the room next door or #201 at the music building to do mastering, OK? There are only 2 mastering suites so he will know of me. Goodbye.

At Cucco..thanks for being civil, Sir. 8-)

Ah. I see I have ruffled your feathers. I don't mean to insult anyone. I never do and that was not my intention in my post. I do have a tendency to call people out. The ball is in your park. Being defensive doesn't help. It just raises more questions.

music_guy wrote: let your unprofessional comments remain here too.

Who is being unprofessional?

Why the attitude?

Its obvious to me who knows what their talking about, why can't you just give it a break music_guy?

Did not your parents teach you, its rude to raise your voice while someone is trying to talk to you.

God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason. We can listen twice as much as we speak.

keep going, I've got a lot of popcorn popping and I can eat more than most.

For historical purposes, Massive mastering made the same contentious comments against RTA's and anyone who might be accustomed to use professional analysis tools. Now Massive, your experience with Mr. Schmidt doesn't make it a "typical" mastering session, does it? However, knowing how you have ridiculed any one trying to use a RTA in any way, shape or form is not IMHO, going to encourage Mr. Schmidt to even request to look at a basic stereo phase scope. He has read, I am sure, all the negativity you left on the subject at Gearslutz.com.

Watch it Ed... You are lying through your teeth (once again) and I'm not going to sit here and put up with it.

music_guy wrote: [quote=hueseph]music_guy: you back pedal and %90+ of the people here don't agree with you. Including those with pictures of their studios on their sites. You do realize you are making a fool of yourself and your business? People who search for "mastering" on this (popular) site will stumble upon this thread. Think about that.

Questions have been raised about the validity of your business which you refuse to answer. You are swimming against a waterfall just because you want to be right. It's ok to be wrong once in a while. In fact admitting when you're wrong tends to garner respect. Think about that.

Of course I know you will never back down. That is your nature. Otherwise you would have admitted to your faux pas already.

You are a moderator? Good!...let your unprofessional comments remain here too. I am the one laughing and I am sure all my clients who by accident read all your nonsense are going to laugh just as hard as I am, but at you and all the incompetents that have misconstrued all my comments with the intention to look like I have done something wrong or that I am saying things that are irrational or irrelevant to audio. Since nobody could prove the obsolescence of analysis tools, you apparently need to discredit me too. I tell you what, how about this? I will never tell you or any of you how my set up looks like and I really am never going to disclose any pictures for you, happy now? And if you are really desperate like Thomas to know where my studio is, call Timeless Mastering and ask for its owner, Adrian Morgan. Ask him if there is a guy that rented the room next door or #201 at the music building to do mastering, OK? There are only 2 mastering suites so he will know of me. Goodbye.

At Cucco..thanks for being civil, Sir. 8-)

Moving on. The Secret to great mastering is the mastering engineer.

What makes a GREAT mastering engineer? It is someone who has a good room, good equipment and has done enough sessions that he or she feels comfortable with their setup so they can master any project given them and it will sound good on any system. Good speakers in a well designed room will make any mastering job easier because the better you can hear the better job you can do with the music. If you don't have experienced ears or if your speaker system is flawed I am not sure how you would master the material. Certainly not by looking at it on an RTA and then trying to smooth out the curve using equalization.

I am not sure how well I would do if I rented a mastering room from someone else for a couple of sessions since I have been in my same mastering room for 15 years and know it pretty well. I just listened to some of the material I mastered years ago and it still sounds good. I probably would have done some things differently but it is because I have better equipment and a lot more projects/experience under my belt.

Mastering is all about listening and then doing what the music tells you to do. It is a simple concept but difficult to do well.

I am currently doing some mastering for a jazz guitarist and he is very concerned with the "sound" of his guitar and how it relates to the space he is playing in and we are working on getting him exactly the sound he is looking for and something that will sound good no matter where it is played. He originally called me up because I had done a project with a friend of his and heard that I have a good mastering room and the experience to do a good job for him. We ran into a problem early on because he started hearing some compression artifacts in his car but it turned out that his car stereo has a built in compressor that cannot be turned off. We will be doing the final mastering tomorrow and I know he will be pleased with the results.

This was a very good topic but it got off on some side topics that were not relevant. Maybe if we can keep this back on topic it might prove to be salvageable and a good topic for continued discussion.

MTCW and YMMV

Watch what you say on this forum Massive, this time is different, you don't have Riccardo to bail you out and erase your most contentious comments any more. Or, are you going to deny that as well? And I am not lying OK? The essence of our conversations still remain there. I would like to ask Michael first if it is permissible to post the links to those threads at GS.

IMHO, what you did at Gearslutz.com was posting contentious, redundant comments { 'thread clogging' }and an unnecessary waste of everybody's time {moderators included}: Before these threads were locked at GS, you chose to get involved with the subject on RTAs time after time, even though in essence, you had nothing better to say except that RTAs were useless. Clearly there is/was a miscommunication about intentions here, but you chose to see me as someone just telling everyone to use RTA's if they are going to do mastering and not to use their ears. That's not the case here and was not the case there. But, before I post any links to that forum, let's put things in perspective; Gearslutz.com has thousands of users and hundreds of thousands of hits per day, Massive has a little group of users who really like him - I would say 7 or 8 users, one of them already insulted me in this thread- and they would blindly attack anyone who dares to contradict him or debate his views. Massive has obviously invested a great deal of time and effort cultivating this online relationships {mainly through his audio forums} maintaining a clean and smart internet image and logically, it is essential to his business. I can appreciate that Massive. But, here is where you go wrong, you make wrong assumptions about me that have the potential to rock this foundation. I can simply send a letter to 2,000 artists and producers to come to this thread to render a witness account about my character and professionalism. I would prefer not to go to that extreme. I sincerely advise you to stop right now because as I have also said before, I got all I need to make my case in point. It really is up to you, Massive.

At Thomas: I'd also appreciate that you remain civil in the discussion.

Massive Mastering wrote:

For historical purposes, Massive mastering made the same contentious comments against RTA's and anyone who might be accustomed to use professional analysis tools. Now Massive, your experience with Mr. Schmidt doesn't make it a "typical" mastering session, does it? However, knowing how you have ridiculed any one trying to use a RTA in any way, shape or form is not IMHO, going to encourage Mr. Schmidt to even request to look at a basic stereo phase scope. He has read, I am sure, all the negativity you left on the subject at Gearslutz.com.

Watch it Ed... You are lying through your teeth (once again) and I'm not going to sit here and put up with it.

Michael Fossenkemper wrote: keep going, I've got a lot of popcorn popping and I can eat more than most.

I love popcorn. I especially like the popcorn at the Cinemark movie theaters or Orville Redenbacher's Gourmet Popping Corn if I am home watching a movie.

Do you pop it from scratch or microwave it?

hueseph wrote: [quote=music_guy][quote=hueseph]music_guy: you back pedal and %90+ of the people here don't agree with you. Including those with pictures of their studios on their sites. You do realize you are making a fool of yourself and your business? People who search for "mastering" on this (popular) site will stumble upon this thread. Think about that.

Questions have been raised about the validity of your business which you refuse to answer. You are swimming against a waterfall just because you want to be right. It's ok to be wrong once in a while. In fact admitting when you're wrong tends to garner respect. Think about that.

Of course I know you will never back down. That is your nature. Otherwise you would have admitted to your faux pas already.

You are a moderator? Good!...let your unprofessional comments remain here too. I am the one laughing and I am sure all my clients who by accident read all your nonsense are going to laugh just as hard as I am, but at you and all the incompetents that have misconstrued all my comments with the intention to look like I have done something wrong or that I am saying things that are irrational or irrelevant to audio. Since any of you couldn't prove the obsolescence of analysis tools, you apparently need to discredit me too. I tell you what, how about this? I will never tell you or any of you how my set up looks like and I really am never going to disclose any pictures for you, happy now? And if you are really desperate like Thomas to know where my studio is, call Timeless Mastering and ask for its owner, Adrian Morgan. Ask him if there is a guy that rented the room next door or #201 at the music building to do mastering, OK? There are only 2 mastering suites so he will know of me. Goodbye.

At Cucco..thanks for being civil, Sir. 8-)

Ah. I see I have ruffled your feathers. I don't mean to insult anyone. I never do and that was not my intention in my post. I do have a tendency to call people out. The ball is in your park. Being defensive doesn't help. It just raises more questions.

hueseph

You are a great person and moderator.

Thanks for being part of this discussion and for being a moderator on recording.org.

Keep up the good work.

Could I ask that we keep this ON TOPIC from now on and instead of making threats we confine our comments to helping people understand what mastering is all about and how they can get the best mastering for their needs?

Thanks!

God knows that's a difficult enough job in itself when 95% of the public don't actually understand what an ME does and when 75% of home studio engineers don't know how to EQ properly.

Mr. Music-guy. Realize that ALL of the administration and most of the mods here are watching this.

I know I am.

Davedog wrote: Mr. Music-guy. Realize that ALL of the administration and most of the mods here are watching this.

I know I am.

No disrespect to your status on this forum and of your duty as moderator Dave, but let me ask you this: where were you when another user insulted me on page 2, {post #29}? Especially, if this is not true? Is it not considered a personal attack or at least highly provocative? I have more questions for you if you want to have a civil conversation but first, can you just answer that?

Thomas W. Bethel wrote:
hueseph....................

Keep up the good work.

Thanks. I'm not sure I deserve that but I appreciate it.

Back to topic and not to cause another stir, the original thread started with a link to a pseudo mastering site where you could upload a song and the site puts a brick wall limiter on it and slams the gain to 11.

music_guy wrote: [quote=Davedog]Mr. Music-guy. Realize that ALL of the administration and most of the mods here are watching this.

I know I am.

No disrespect to your status on this forum and of your duty as moderator Dave, but let me ask you this: where were you when another user insulted me on page 2, {post #29}? Especially, if this is not true? Is it not considered a personal attack or at least highly provocative? I have more questions for you if you want to have a civil conversation but first, can you just answer that?

I was watching with interest and leaving the administering of this thread to the rightful Mod of this forum. While administration has veto power its not something that we as Mods tend to do...ie: break into someone elses forum to keep peace where its not needed.

Michael is more than capable of dealing with this as he sees fit. My comment is meant to draw your attention to the fact that hes not all alone in this and you should be aware of that before you bring to bear your outside sources.

I have no idea what your skill level is nor do I care. I have used ME's for a long time and have stated my personal preferences in an earlier thread.

As an end-user I have to say that listening to someone purport to have the "secrets" to anything puts me on edge from the beginning.

40 years in music has taught me one thing, If you think you know everything , chances are you dont.

Queries directed towards me about Mastering will fall on deaf as well as dumb ears. I couldn't master something even if I wanted to. Nor will I try.

But I can hear like crazy good.......

first of all, I will delete any and all links to gearslutz. don't even think about it. If you want to continue your gearslutz fight here, I will delete only parts of your post and make up a bunch of really stupid stuff and stick it in it's place. Stuff like "I'm a fairy princess and like pink thongs". You want to get personal, go back to gearslutz. You want to discuss in a relatively calm manner how RTA's can make babies fly, go right ahead.

(Is there no way to "Ignore User" here - or am I missing something...)

Davedog wrote: [quote=music_guy][quote=Davedog]Mr. Music-guy. Realize that ALL of the administration and most of the mods here are watching this.

I know I am.

No disrespect to your status on this forum and of your duty as moderator Dave, but let me ask you this: where were you when another user insulted me on page 2, {post #29}? Especially, if this is not true? Is it not considered a personal attack or at least highly provocative? I have more questions for you if you want to have a civil conversation but first, can you just answer that?

I was watching with interest and leaving the administering of this thread to the rightful Mod of this forum. While administration has veto power its not something that we as Mods tend to do...ie: break into someone elses forum to keep peace where its not needed. Fine, then all I ask is you try to understand where I am coming from. That response from that user was IMO certainly not warranted. Even if he was right, it doesn't make it appropriate to start that discussion in this thread as in completely "Off Topic". Look through these posts carefully and you will see who are the trolls and who is being abused. Also, if you can, point to me anywhere to something I have said that is not according to forum's rules {other than to defend myself from those attacks}.

Michael is more than capable of dealing with this as he sees fit. My comment is meant to draw your attention to the fact that hes not all alone in this and you should be aware of that before you bring to bear your outside sources.

Michael is a good moderator and I am not complaining, however, if he wants to clean up this mess, he sure can in order to protect his most avid users and to avoid major confusion. It's up to him.

I have no idea what your skill level is nor do I care. I have used ME's for a long time and have stated my personal preferences in an earlier thread.

I am not a moderator either, but I wouldn't tolerate anybody insulting others regardless the number of years posting on the forum.

As an end-user I have to say that listening to someone purport to have the "secrets" to anything puts me on edge from the beginning.
40 years in music has taught me one thing, If you think you know everything , chances are you dont.

Agreed. I would also feel the same way. If you read my posts you will find that I was just giving an opinion. That's not the same as someone implying any secrets of mastering is it?

Queries directed towards me about Mastering will fall on deaf as well as dumb ears. I couldn't master something even if I wanted to. Nor will I try.
But I can hear like crazy good.......

That's not what I had in mind, I didn't mean to ask questions about mastering. Thanks for your help anyway.

music_guy wrote: [quote=Davedog]Mr. Music-guy. Realize that ALL of the administration and most of the mods here are watching this.

I know I am.

No disrespect to your status on this forum and of your duty as moderator Dave, but let me ask you this: where were you when another user insulted me on page 2, {post #29}? Especially, if this is not true? Is it not considered a personal attack or at least highly provocative? I have more questions for you if you want to have a civil conversation but first, can you just answer that?

EV

Are you are referring to my post? it was a simple question because it was my impression that you got banned from (whole foods) for the exactly the same thing you are currently doing here. If it is not true, and you can always prove me wrong if you post something on (pink Popsicles) under your own name, then I apologize and the moderators can remove my post if they want to. Thanks.

Thomas W. Bethel wrote: [quote=music_guy][quote=Davedog]Mr. Music-guy. Realize that ALL of the administration and most of the mods here are watching this.

I know I am.

No disrespect to your status on this forum and of your duty as moderator Dave, but let me ask you this: where were you when another user insulted me on page 2, {post #29}? Especially, if this is not true? Is it not considered a personal attack or at least highly provocative? I have more questions for you if you want to have a civil conversation but first, can you just answer that?

EV

Are you are referring to my post? it was a simple question because it was my impression that you got banned from Gearslutz for the exactly the same thing you are currently doing here. If it is not true, and you can always prove me wrong if you post something on Gearslutz under your own name, then I apologize and the moderators can remove my post if they want to. Thanks.

Thomas you are missing my point, I know you are a smart guy and you understand civility. You also know that your intention with that question was not clean. I don't want to shame you, but if you proclaim that threads should be kept on topic then you should abide by your own rules. Having said all that, given our past history, it is highly inappropriate and not 'innocent' of you to formulate such a question on a public forum. As for me having to demonstrate to you that you are wrong {by having me post anything at (don'teditmyedits.com)} it's ludicrous and I certainly will not do that. However, you can simply PM the moderator and he will tell you that you were wrong. The question that will remain is, will you still apologize in this thread?

music_guy wrote: [quote=Thomas W. Bethel][quote=music_guy][quote=Davedog]Mr. Music-guy. Realize that ALL of the administration and most of the mods here are watching this.

I know I am.

No disrespect to your status on this forum and of your duty as moderator Dave, but let me ask you this: where were you when another user insulted me on page 2, {post #29}? Especially, if this is not true? Is it not considered a personal attack or at least highly provocative? I have more questions for you if you want to have a civil conversation but first, can you just answer that?

EV

Are you are referring to my post? it was a simple question because it was my impression that you got banned from Gearslutz for the exactly the same thing you are currently doing here. If it is not true, and you can always prove me wrong if you post something on Gearslutz under your own name, then I apologize and the moderators can remove my post if they want to. Thanks.

Thomas you are missing my point, I know you are a smart guy and you understand civility. You also know that your intention with that question was not clean. I don't want to shame you, but if you proclaim that threads should be kept on topic then you should abide by your own rules. Having said all that, given our past history, it is highly inappropriate and not 'innocent' of you to formulate such a question on a public forum. As for me having to demonstrate to you that you are wrong {by having me post anything at (don'teditmyedits.com)} it's ludicrous and I certainly will not do that. However, you can simply PM the moderator and he will tell you that you were wrong. The question that will remain is, will you still apologize in this thread?

I stand corrected and will keep on topic as long as you do the same.

(I assume he won't apologize to me for making false accusations and libelous comments)

Massive Mastering wrote: (I assume he won't apologize to me for making false accusations and libelous comments)

I wouldn't sweat it. I don't think there's any damage to your reputation. I would hate to think what might happen if any of his clients or colleagues saw this thread though. Only a sycophant would deny that he damaged himself more than anyone could.

Back to the original topic:

vloud.com/

hueseph wrote: [quote=Massive Mastering](I assume he won't apologize to me for making false accusations and libelous comments)

I would hate to think what might happen if any of his clients or colleagues saw this thread though. How funny, I was thinking the same a few hours ago. Why don't I send an email to my entire clientele? Really, just say the word. let's really see what people who know me will think of this thread. Shall we? Then, Massive can do the same, and you can do the same, let's really find out what the consensus among real people would be in respect to all of the nonsense posted in this thread. Is that what you would like me to do?

Only a sycophant would deny that he damaged himself more than anyone could.
Back to the original topic:

No, sorry but I don't agree, too late for that! IMO, your conduct as a "moderator" is reproachable. So, let me call you on it, point to me at where you think I had broken this forum's rules, and again, other than to defend myself from false accusations, insults, personal attacks {including yours} .

"your conduct as a "moderator" is reproachable. "

Thomas W. Bethel wrote: Moving on. The Secret to great mastering is the mastering engineer.

What makes a GREAT mastering engineer? It is someone who has a good room, good equipment and has done enough sessions that he or she feels comfortable with their setup so they can master any project given them and it will sound good on any system. Good speakers in a well designed room will make any mastering job easier because the better you can hear the better job you can do with the music. If you don't have experienced ears or if your speaker system is flawed I am not sure how you would master the material. Certainly not by looking at it on an RTA and then trying to smooth out the curve using equalization.

I am not sure how well I would do if I rented a mastering room from someone else for a couple of sessions since I have been in my same mastering room for 15 years and know it pretty well. I just listened to some of the material I mastered years ago and it still sounds good. I probably would have done some things differently but it is because I have better equipment and a lot more projects/experience under my belt.

Mastering is all about listening and then doing what the music tells you to do. It is a simple concept but difficult to do well.

I am currently doing some mastering for a jazz guitarist and he is very concerned with the "sound" of his guitar and how it relates to the space he is playing in and we are working on getting him exactly the sound he is looking for and something that will sound good no matter where it is played. He originally called me up because I had done a project with a friend of his and heard that I have a good mastering room and the experience to do a good job for him. We ran into a problem early on because he started hearing some compression artifacts in his car but it turned out that his car stereo has a built in compressor that cannot be turned off. We will be doing the final mastering tomorrow and I know he will be pleased with the results.

This was a very good topic but it got off on some side topics that were not relevant. Maybe if we can keep this back on topic it might prove to be salvageable and a good topic for continued discussion.

MTCW and YMMV

Thanks for your insight Thomas, this WAS a very good topic.

Yes this topic has gotten abuse, its a shame!

As a recording musician its my obligation to learn more about getting quality tracks in a home environment.

As an artist that has never really had all that great of equipment to record on in the past and has had a very strong desire to get a sound that is worthy of having a professional such as yourself or others touch, this is a great topic to be able to ask questions about choosing the best route for a musician to take to be on the road to making a dream come true.

This forum has taught me quite a bit that I never knew about making quality decisions.

Again, a big Thank You to all of you R.O. :wink: