Bahahahaha. It's really sad.
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Thomas, you leave me no choice but to address your remarks and w
Thomas, you leave me no choice but to address your remarks and waste time.
First, stop posting more lies and personal attacks online and don't twist reality to save face. The only reason I was ever given a notice by a moderator was when you made a complaint to them that I was embarrassing you and making you look like an incompetent {God only knows why} and I am sure they took pity on you. All my views about my RTA discussions and debates at Gearslutz.com, which of course you didn't even participate in, have been archived and are consistent with my views on this forum too. My point of view has never changed. If I have ever seemed to prevail in any discussion is not because I "twisted words around so my ideas predominate" but, you conveniently choose to see it that way. FWIW, no one can ever be correct on the wrong side of things, that's a contradiction.
You have now made the fellow member above correct, this is turning into an internet argument not a peaceful discussion.
A man came ridin oot the west, one wild and stormy day He was qu
A man came ridin oot the west, one wild and stormy day
He was quiet lean and hungry, his eyes were smoky grey
He was lean across the herdes but his shooders, they were big
The terror o the heilan glens, that was the Portree kid!
HEEEE DRUMMM HOOO
HEEEE DRUMMM HEYYY
The teuchter that came, frae Skye
newbie2009 wrote: [quote=Massive Mastering][quote=Link555]What i
newbie2009 wrote: [quote=Massive Mastering][quote=Link555]What is happening to our happy forum?
The same exact thing that happens at just about *every* forum where certain unnamed people get involved...
Are you afraid to say something? Who are these people you mentioned?
Totally, utterly, no idea who this could possibly be.
Jg22 perhaps?
Michael Fossenkemper wrote: [quote=hueseph][quote=MBBCFP][quote=
Michael Fossenkemper wrote: [quote=hueseph][quote=MBBCFP][quote=Thomas W. Bethel][quote=StephenMC]http://www.vloud.co…
Bahahahaha. It's really sad.
The secret to a great mastering job is hiring a GREAT mastering engineer.Please tell us what a great mastering engineer does.
You need to click on that www link under Thomas Bethel's signature. Notice that his monitoring system is likely worth more than your entire setup. Yeah. I'm not kidding. And lo and behold! Not a single Be****ger product in site!
Thomas, did you give Hueseph a kickback for this?
Nope!
music_guy wrote: Thomas, you leave me no choice but to address y
music_guy wrote: Thomas, you leave me no choice but to address your remarks and waste time.
First, stop posting more lies and personal attacks online and don't twist reality to save face. The only reason I was ever given a notice by a MOD was because you made a complaint to them and I am sure thery took pitty on you. All my views about my RTA discussions/debates at Gearslutz.com, which of course you didn't even participate in, have been documented and are consistent with my views on this forum. That has never changed. If I have ever seemed to prevail in any discussion is not because I "twisted words around so my ideas predominate" but you conveniently choose to see it that way. FWIW, no one can ever be right on the wrong side of things, that's a contradiction.
You have now made the fellow member above right, this is turning into an internet argument not a peaceful discussion.
I personally like to be a member of a friendly mastering forum like this one where people can share ideas and help answer questions. If you are here to do that I extend a genuine handshake and bid you welcome to the forum. If you are here to cause trouble, to attack people and to generally make a mess of what once was a nice forum I will call you on it and I am sure I will not be the only one. Michael, Hueseph and audiokid seem to want a good friendly forum and do their darnedest to make it so.
If you go back and reread your posts here on this topic on this forum you will find that you are already augmentative, that you are somewhat haughty when answering simple questions and that you are pushing your own agenda. Maybe this is not apparent to you for whatever reason.
I am trying hard not to attack you personally but if you continue to spew out misinformation and make every post into a "look how good I am and look how bad everyone else is" then I think others will tire of you as quickly as I did on Gearslutz.
We all have different ideas and ways of doing things. If you want to pass on your wisdom and present it in such a manner that it does not seem like you are saying it is my way or the highway then I will read your posts and learn from them.
I questioned you on Gearslutz and will question you here as to what equipment you use and to show me/us a real photograph of the studio where you work. If you want to see a real picture of a real mastering studio you can visit my site it is there for the world to see and I don't hide my studio or my equipment list. Any attempts by others on Gearslutz to see your studio or have you list the gear you use seemed to end in futility. If there is some reason for this then please enlighten me. Most professional mastering studios have some pictures on their website because they are proud of what they have and the sites that don't maybe have a good reason not to put them up. I have to assume that with all the secrecy surrounding your studio that it is really a recording studio that is also used for mastering or that all you have is a computer and a couple of near fields and you don't want others to see it.
I don't want to piss in the friendly waters so this will be my last post on this subject.
FWIW.
music_guy wrote: I can't speak for the rest, but I usually go be
music_guy wrote: I can't speak for the rest, but I usually go beyond the call of that duty. For instance, I always prevent musicians from committing to a bad mix for mastering.
Your claiming to play a part as a producer here, not a engineer. So why do you bother calling yourself a ME if you are indeed a producer? If the shoe fits wear it. 8)
Thomas W. Bethel wrote: I questioned you on Gearslutz and will q
Thomas W. Bethel wrote: I questioned you on Gearslutz and will question you here as to what equipment you use and to show me/us a real photograph of the studio where you work.
You like to see nice studio pictures or else someone is not credible to you and even though there are dozens of reputable sites with no actual studio pictures, that is IMO the reason why you started posting negatives comments and personal attacks against me and in the first place. These actions by you can still be proven so I am not making it up, I urge you not to insist on this matter any further. And as you said, I also urge you to stop replying to this post, you know that I don't like to run away from a heated discussion but as I said before, it's time consuming. Why are we doing this in the first place? Is it just me or does anyone else see that to ask a question like "Haven't you been tossed off from that site" is considered a personal attack? Even if it was true, it is highly contentious. Contentious is also a term often conveniently manipulated by others to silence one's opinions. I've seen very successful and reputable audio engineers at GS being treated in a extreme disrespectful manner. The moderators incapable to keep up with the massive amounts of posts were maybe unaware of these discussions, and allow 'sometimes' highly insulting posts to remain there for everyone to read. Sometimes for too long. I guess it's the nature of the web and it comes with the territory. One shouldn't post unless one can take sarcasm, disrespect and personal attacks from anonymous users and trolls. So, when you add the guy who couldn't see your studio pic, and the guy who disliked something you wrote on your own site, the guy who failed to to guess which was the correct audio sample on an A/B test you posted for educational purposes {not promotional}, the guy who masters with a multi-band compressor as opposed to multiple narrow band plugin compressors , the guy who disliked me saying "it's not the equipment, it's the man that matters", the guy who never uses RTA guidance in his work flow, the guys who can't use near-field monitors for mastering, etc, etc, you are bound to get a whole lot of people annoyed and they'll give you a hard time for your ideas and/or idiosyncrasies, even though your opinions or posts are spread in many different threads on the GS forum. I hope I have explained a little better my experience there and hope I am still welcomed here.
If you want to see a real picture of a real mastering studio you can visit my site it is there for the world to see and I don't hide my studio or my equipment list. Any attempts by others on Gearslutz to see your studio or have you list the gear you use seem seem to end in futility. If there is some reason for this then please enlighten me.
As I've said it before, now I am saying it to you on this forum differently: if only equipment could make the audio engineer, many legitimate successful ones would be in the unemployment line today.
I don't want to piss in the friendly waters so this will be my last post on this subject.
It would best for this thread, so thank you Thomas.
jammster wrote: [quote=music_guy]I can't speak for the rest, but
jammster wrote: [quote=music_guy]I can't speak for the rest, but I usually go beyond the call of that duty. For instance, I always prevent musicians from committing to a bad mix for mastering.
Your claiming to play a part as a producer here, not a engineer. So why do you bother calling yourself a ME if you are indeed a producer? If the shoe fits wear it. 8)
I guess I have understated that I receive from the online service a lot of poorly engineered mixes. You can either take that work and do the best you can knowing that your best won't be good enough or be courageous to confront the truth to the artists/bands or producers. Some of you {Who also have read my posts at GS} might see this as yet another controversial idea. I say, let's put a cap on the lack of open mindedness and explore all the possibilities. In answering to your question, I can only say that many barriers have been brought down technologically and you are only limited by the level of your skill, ability and experience. I still prefer the term mastering engineer and will continue to do my thing regardless of what others say or do. The adage "necessity is the mother of invention" woks for me.
Michael Fossenkemper wrote: [quote=hueseph][quote=MBBCFP][quote=
Michael Fossenkemper wrote: [quote=hueseph][quote=MBBCFP][quote=Thomas W. Bethel][quote=StephenMC]http://www.vloud.co…
Bahahahaha. It's really sad.
The secret to a great mastering job is hiring a GREAT mastering engineer.Please tell us what a great mastering engineer does.
You need to click on that www link under Thomas Bethel's signature. Notice that his monitoring system is likely worth more than your entire setup. Yeah. I'm not kidding. And lo and behold! Not a single Be****ger product in site!
Thomas, did you give Hueseph a kickback for this?
Oh.....how did I miss that? LOL.
Carry on.
though there are dozens of reputable sites with no actual studio pictures
I've gotta ask you to name one. Every major studio in this town has tons of pics of their studio on their website. Why not? They have a lot to be proud of.
Now I can't say I've ever posted a pic of my gear but that's for two reasons.
1: my gear is crap
2: I don't claim to be anything more than I am. Namely a slightly more experienced geek that has owned, used and played with many DAWs.
My designation as a "moderator" reflects, I think, more on my ability to mediate than anything else. There are certainly many more qualified individuals in the residents here.
hueseph wrote: I've gotta ask you to name one. Every major stud
hueseph wrote:
I've gotta ask you to name one. Every major studio in this town has tons of pics of their studio on their website. Why not? They have a lot to be proud of.
I agree with you there, but sorry if this wasn't clear, we are talking about reputable online sites that don't show actual studio {room} pics only their gear. Good example is Velvet Room mastering. Now, my gear has been seen by all my clients who have come to my studios in both Manhattan and Brooklyn. I don't go around taking pictures of my gear to show it to people like those sarcastic subjects above, let them think that I master with a cheap PC computer, a sound blaster card and hacked up plug-ins for all I care.
Isn't that a[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.velvet-room.co.uk/Ve
Isn't that a[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.velvet-r…"] picture[/]="http://www.velvet-r…"] picture[/] of their gear? Also the gear list? If not, they went through the effort to ensure that their gear list was represented in that stock photo or vice verse.
hueseph wrote: Isn't that a[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.velve
hueseph wrote: Isn't that a[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.velvet-r…"] picture[/]="http://www.velvet-r…"] picture[/] of their gear? Also the gear list? If not, they went through the effort to ensure that their gear list was represented in that stock photo or vice verse.
How difficult would it be for you to go to a pro studio with a camera and snap pictures of some expensive gear? Then you list what's in the picture. It's a verifiable clientele list that ultimately gives you credibility not gear pics.
Are we arguing about gear pics? This is an industry of people t
Are we arguing about gear pics?
This is an industry of people that like gear. There are many many industries that pride themselves on the tools that they use. Knowing this, why wouldn't you also pride yourself on the tools you use and show them to others that appreciate it too? Doesn't mean that the tools makes the man. To me it shows that one that prides himself in the tools he uses will also take pride in the work he does, or at least takes the same amount of care in the work as choosing the tools he works with.
Re: Are we arguing about gear pics? I kind of feel honored that
Re: Are we arguing about gear pics?
I kind of feel honored that in good spirit you have taken a personal interest in me and my posts, Michael. Let me tell you, I've worked for over 25 years with audio equipment; rented it, leased it, borrowed it, bought it, sold it, done all kinds of things with it including DJing. But, I am sorry that I don't feel that kind of pride like the vast majority of characters on the web. However, I do feel immensely proud of my achievements with it, especially for my own music productions. And, I am sorry I don't feel inclined to go running around taking little pictures and post them online to satisfy the curiosity of certain unnamed engineers, who I can't understand for the life of me how they find the time to post in "massive" amounts on all these mastering forums. I guess, you got to do whatever works to drum up business. FWIW, YMMV.
Take good care of yourself and may you always be doing happy processing, Michael.
Michael Fossenkemper wrote: why wouldn't you also pride yourself on the tools you use and show them to others that appreciate it too? Doesn't mean that the tools makes the man. To me it shows that one that prides himself in the tools he uses will also take pride in the work he does, or at least takes the same amount of care in the work as choosing the tools he works with.
music_guy wrote: Well, great mastering does start with a great m
music_guy wrote: Well, great mastering does start with a great mix! I rely on spectrum analysis to achieve this end {Harmonic balance}.
I always say give credit where credit is due.
Thanks for pinning it down and nailing it. I had been thinking about your post, wow!
Amazing what a spectrum analyzer can do for you when tracking!
I had been wondering how to get better mixes and had talked with engineers around town and they are telling me that you have to fill all the holes in a mix. Its really helping me to see what is going on by having a good analyzer plugin onboard when working on mixes since my living room is not exactly perfect for a critical ear.
I use a Mac and Logic Pro. I just loaded a demo version of this plug this weekend.
http://nugenaudio.com/visualizer.php
I am so impressed with what it allows me to see! 8) :o :P
jammster wrote: [quote=music_guy]Well, great mastering does star
jammster wrote: [quote=music_guy]Well, great mastering does start with a great mix! I rely on spectrum analysis to achieve this end {Harmonic balance}.
I always say give credit where credit is due.
Thanks for pinning it down and nailing it. I had been thinking about your post, wow!
Amazing what a spectrum analyzer can do for you when tracking!
I had been wondering how to get better mixes and had talked with engineers around town and they are telling me that you have to fill all the holes in a mix. Its really helping me to see what is going on by having a good analyzer plugin onboard when working on mixes since my living room is not exactly perfect for a critical ear.
I use a Mac and Logic Pro. I just loaded a demo version of this plug this weekend.
http://nugenaudio.com/visualizer.php
I am so impressed with what it allows me to see! 8) :o :P
IMHO using your ears is a far better way to mix and master. Checking a mix or mastering job with a spectrum analyzer is fine but don't let your eyes do what your ears should be doing. Trying to plug hole in a spectrum display will NOT make you a better mixer or mastering engineer and may have the opposite effect.
FWIW and YMMV
Thomas W. Bethel wrote: IMHO using your ears is a far better wa
Thomas W. Bethel wrote:
IMHO using your ears is a far better way to mix and master. Checking a mix or mastering job with a spectrum analyzer is fine but don't let your eyes do what your ears should be doing.
Yes, I am sure your right about that. I have a long way to go, believe me. I don't own big money stuff, just average.
You do know that a spectrum analyzer just enhances the experience, reinforces what is going on in the track/mix.
I would like to make a professional room for recording in my house someday, however there are just so many things that come first. I just will work with what I have.
Thanks for your input Tom.
Thanks huseph, just did that. I got to admit, I missed the poi
Thanks huseph, just did that.
I got to admit, I missed the point.
The credit truly belongs to all of you whom make recording. org. You take your time to read and post, to explain how the mastering process relates to the studio and the producer.
I fully understand how touchy the mastering world is. I have no intention on claiming to be an expert because I am obviously not.
Its very interesting to be learning more about the process, after all I think most of us dream about it. :wink:
Codemonkey wrote: Has it really taken you 12 hours to read it al
Codemonkey wrote: Has it really taken you 12 hours to read it all :O
BTW I think the dreaming about mastering might be the owning of the relevant gear...
Yeah, a bit slow today. :lol:
I've been working 10hr days for the past 2 months.
I spent half a lifetime dreaming and I intend on spending the second half of my life dreaming twice as often. IMO it makes for better songs and stories.
Sure makes it hard to remodel the house however. I have a hard time deciding what to do first.
Just remember Code, before you can own it you have to earn it. The more you work the easier it gets.
Codemonkey wrote: Has it really taken you 12 hours to read it al
Codemonkey wrote: Has it really taken you 12 hours to read it all :O
BTW I think the dreaming about mastering might be the owning of the relevant gear...
It certainly doesn't hurt....
I read the entire thread and IMHO mastering is a lot like creating the music in the first place. It's the last link in that entire chain....It's the final take...It takes a certain amount of equipment (the tools of the trade), talent, experience, and certainly a good ear.
The "great secret" maybe somewhat in the magic when all of that comes together and provides an enhanced, complete, final mix that the artist accepts.....
Dear Jammster, As you can see there are people in this world th
Dear Jammster,
As you can see there are people in this world that will tell you what you should or shouldn't do according to their personal experiences That is fine.
However, without creating another long and off topic thread about RTA technology, let me just say that you are on the right track. I advise that you learn to use your RTA and to understand the relation between spectrum and sound. RTA is used and truly understood by the most experienced and successful engineers around the world. Most of these engineers have their own particular way to use it in their workflows and do not bother to post this kind of information online. In fact, IMHO, the most successful engineers don't have time to hang out on forums, unless of course, they are forum moderators or are selling their own designed hardware, software or maybe even a book on audio :) If anybody tells you that gaps mean nothing with respect to sound {more specifically in mastering} they are engineers who probably don't have a clue as to how to further push the envelope in order to create a loud track that doesn't lose as much impact and dynamics. This is very different from merely slamming overall levels with a hard limiter. Keep in mind that is not just about the presence of "gaps" but also about the opposite; 'chuncks' of frequency information that may need to be precisely filtered out. And as I always say, this instrument never replaces the main instrument {your ears} but you need to rely on what you hear as much as on what you can see. For example, while clipping can be detected with most meters, some of the clues that a RTA can not ever provide is the presence of distortion.
I hope this helps you a little more in your present understanding about RTA's and continue to learn more about it.
Take care,
jammster wrote: [quote=music_guy]Well, great mastering does start with a great mix! I rely on spectrum analysis to achieve this end {Harmonic balance}.
I always say give credit where credit is due.
Thanks for pinning it down and nailing it. I had been thinking about your post, wow!
Amazing what a spectrum analyzer can do for you when tracking!
I had been wondering how to get better mixes and had talked with engineers around town and they are telling me that you have to fill all the holes in a mix. Its really helping me to see what is going on by having a good analyzer plugin onboard when working on mixes since my living room is not exactly perfect for a critical ear.
I use a Mac and Logic Pro. I just loaded a demo version of this plug this weekend.
http://nugenaudio.com/visualizer.php
I am so impressed with what it allows me to see! 8) :o :P
Jammster, Contrary to what EV says. Most professional masterin
Jammster,
Contrary to what EV says.
Most professional mastering engineers do not use RTAs when they master. If you would go to Ted Jensen's mastering studio or Bob Ludwig's mastering studio you would not see any RTAs being used and these two people are some of the MASTERS of Mastering.
You have the BEST audio test equipment known to man attached to your body and they are the two ears on your head. Use them to listen when you are mastering and if you want to check to see what is happening as you make your corrections you can use the RTA. Before the advent of DAWs no one could even see the waveform and still did an amazing job mastering.
Trying to master visually is NOT the way to go and will only make things a lot worse. Your eyes are for seeing and your ears for listening. Don't confuse the two.
FWIW and YMMV
If I can give my 2 cents here.... I think I understand "music-g
If I can give my 2 cents here.... I think I understand "music-guys" view, a tool is a tool. Leaning to use a new tool can only expand your abilities.
However I find seeing and hearing are too very different skills sets. Often what we see distracts our brain from what we are hearing.
For example if I put a 0.5db 10k cut on a vocal track the average client might not hear it. But if I let them toogle the filter bypass switch, suddenly they can.
What is going on here? The brain sees the switch and the fact that it was changed so it might be fooling them into thinking they are hearing the cut. However if I get them to do it blind, they may not notice any difference.
So long story short, if you do use visual tools, understand that the mere act of including visual cues may infact be changing how and what you hear.
There is no right and wrong here, as always do what feels right.
Best of luck,
Link
Link555 wrote: If I can give my 2 cents here.... I think I unde
Link555 wrote: If I can give my 2 cents here.... I think I understand "music-guys" view, a tool is a tool. Leaning to use a new tool can only expand your abilities.
However I find seeing and hearing are too very different skills sets. Often what we see distracts our brain from what we are hearing.
For example if I put a 0.5db 10k cut on a vocal track the average client might not hear it. But if I let them toogle the filter bypass switch, suddenly they can.
What is going on here? The brain sees the switch and the fact that it was changed so it might be fooling them into thinking they are hearing the cut. However if I get them to do it blind, they may not notice any difference.
This is a good example, if you cut with a very narrow bell, chances are that the act of switching or turning the knob will make your client believe that a change has taken place. However, with the real time analyzer you can actually see it and there is no guessing on the fundamentals. I can't count the number of times that my RTA prevented me from delivering a flawed master, even as I swore that everything sounded fine. Please let's make sure that we also understand that RTAs are conformed by a few components like the spectrum analyzer, dual channel metering and a goniometer. Some may even have an oscilloscope as part of a software package, but hardware analyzers are usually sold as modules or separate components. I use RTAs for everything, from detecting tiny digital clicks to alerting clients of potential problems with a mix containing phase inversion issues and to being able to notch down a troublesome bass frequency in an otherwise perfect bottom end. You sure can do this also with your ears, but IMO, with a RTA you do it with more precision your ears ever will.
Well here we are today on this thread titled by the op: The Sec
Well here we are today on this thread titled by the op:
The Secret to Great Mastering, something that the op probably never intended on seeing grow into a intense view into the subject. But its obvious, the title has been drawing us closer to our hearts.
Mastering has more to do with life than it does music, of course it can be argued that its the other way around.
To master the art of composition. To master writing songs. To master singing.
Mastering by definition is:
To become a master of: overcome.
Think about it: To overcome oneself. To become a master. Food for thought. Back on topic:
Again, day in and day out this forum has been growing on me. Real people with a real commitment to making music, taking their precious time to comment on their techniques and sharing their views of how they work in the professional world.
I think we owe a word of thanks to all that participate on this forum, because this has become a world wide interaction that anyone can take part in, and its amazing.
Certainly, we all have goals and dreams but their are limitations that prevent us from obtaining them. We must persevere those limitations by understanding why they are there in the first place. And we also must be persistent in taking the steps to make our dream a reality.
Again, I thank all of you for your ideas and insight.
Thomas W. Bethel wrote: You have the BEST audio test equipment known to man attached to your body and they are the two ears on your head. Use them to listen when you are mastering and if you want to check to see what is happening as you make your corrections you can use the RTA. Before the advent of DAWs no one could even see the waveform and still did an amazing job mastering.
Trying to master visually is NOT the way to go and will only make things a lot worse. Your eyes are for seeing and your ears for listening. Don't confuse the two.
FWIW and YMMV
Thomas, I completely agree with your statement. It stands for plain truth. What is the whole reason for making a recording in the first place?
You guessed it. Its for the enjoyment :D
If it does not sound good then nothing can fix it. I used the Nugenaudio demo RTA plug a few times but have decided for now not to get it. Why? First off, I am a musician. Tools for making music such as instruments and microphones/pre amps are of the highest priority. Of course we all have different tastes, that is what makes us unique and interesting.
Secondly, I use Logic Pro and there already is RTA with the EQ plugin. Although it is not nearly as feature rich as the Nugenaudio plug it does not cost me anything.
My main reason for recording is to fulfill my commitment to music. There are musicians that are not interested in recording whatsoever, and I totally understand their point of view. There are musicians that are only interested in performance.
However, I have always loved recording and cannot see past my connection with the recording.
Its always been a dream to make a good recording, and by that I mean one that is a good set of songs that last about a half hour to forty minutes. I see it as an art, one that embodies a commitment to a vision. The vision is born out of desire to fulfill the goal. Its the sound in our head thats driving us to get it right. Sometimes we fail, and failing is not a bad thing, it helps us to be humble and know what reality is, not what fantasy is. Fantasy is often what gets us into trouble in the first place, however it also enables us to be creative too.
It relieves my spirit and renews my soul to hear a recording that gives me goose bumps. Often times I will hear a recording someone has done here and it thrills me. Its such a joy to make a song, then to make a great recording is what throws it over the edge.
So with that being said, I have enough time spent on riffs, chord progressions, writing lyrics and voicing them with melodies, vocal warm ups, not to mention the gigs I get. Anyway, what I am trying to get to is that we are searching for acknowledgment. To know that we are doing the right things with the equipment when tracking all the way to the finished product. To hear someone to say, yes that is what fits and I like that song very much because it is speaking to my heart in a way that I have never seen before, or something along those lines.
Getting out there and seeing the reaction on peoples faces about what your singing about is very important.
So, the answer is yes. I would be much happier to send my hard earned mixes off to a professional. One whom already has the experience and the knowhow to do the mastering right. Its also just very important to know how things are done in the professional world of recording too.
I agree with Link555 too,
"So long story short, if you do use visual tools, understand that the mere act of including visual cues may infact be changing how and what you hear. "
Very true, and also the environment in which one is working and how the room interacts with the speakers also play a much larger role than meets the eye. Not to mention the fatigue one encounters after working for hours on a tune.
Its our ears, yes?
The most valuable resource is our perception.
Thanks again,
Bret
I guess only Jammster and Link555 have bothered to read and unde
I guess only Jammster and Link555 have bothered to read and understand my comments within the intended context: RTA's CAN NOT REPLACE ONE'S EARS (I am writing it capital letters and bold now). The point is that visual guidance is used by some of us to a maximum effect and some just to glance at it once in a while to check things out. It doesn't matter the length of the application, bottom line either you use it or you don't. I would really be concerned about the quality of a ME's product if he never uses one even for a few seconds . This has nothing to do with your monitoring environment. Your ears are human and are not a precise instrument, just one simple example: if you have too much unnecessary frequency information at 20kHz you probably wouldn't notice it, but by filtering out some of that information, you have created a little more headroom to do whatever you want with it, like making the track a bit louder. This is hardly "the secret to great mastering" and it's becoming a little off topic but don't discount the importance of this guidance tool, that is plain ignorant. RTAs have been used by audio engineers since the 70's, that's almost 20 years before the first DAW's were made available to the music industry. The first functional spectrum analyzer was created at Columbia University and delivered to the US Air Force in 1957. That is more than 50 years ago and its range was 1Hz to 40kHz, {way before DSP at the 88.2 kHz Nyquist frequency}. Technically speaking, everybody uses analysis tools, I don't know of any engineer who never uses for example peak meters. As for not being used - in one way or another - by MEs, I have a few pics to show that I found on the web and with little effort: One is 24-96 Mastering a.k.a. Robin Schmidt from Germany who I believe admitted 'glancing at it sometimes' - makes me wonder why he has it in the picture in the first place if he doesn't really use it too much :) Maybe he'll chime in and share how he uses it and for how long {not that the length of your observation really matters}. Another from Fuller Sound Mastering http://www.fullersound.com/ {need to say more?} and the other one is Jose Blanco of Master House Studios in Miami who has no problems admitting he works with the same analysis tools Bob Ludwig does. As far as Ted using RTAs, I know for sure he uses a goniometer (who doesn't for crying sakes?). But, I can ask my friend Adrian Morgan who used to work at Sterling if he ever saw him using spectrum analysis as well. Or, screw it, I'll just take a walk to Sterling since it is within a walking distance from my home and ask him myself, but then again, I'd feel silly doing that and really prefer not to. Now, whether he would really like that information to be known or not {after all he does have a reputation of having golden ears} you make your own conclusion.
And More:
Some mastering studios like to use the spectrum analysis as hardware like Synchronia Mastering in Italy.
This is one sitting on top of a gear rack is mine. Notice that it lacks information below 43Hz, for that I use another one :) It is considered the first true stereo spectrum analyzer in the world.
At Jammster: don't worry about RTA's. Unless you are doing professional audio engineering {meaning for a living} I don't advise musicians to invest time learning it. At this point in time your focus is just like you said, being creative.
Nice discussion and best wishes to all.
Thomas W. Bethel wrote: Jammster,
Contrary to what EV says.
Most professional mastering engineers do not use RTAs when they master. If you would go to Ted Jensen's mastering studio or Bob Ludwig's mastering studio you would not see any RTAs being used and these two people are some of the MASTERS of Mastering.
You have the BEST audio test equipment known to man attached to your body and they are the two ears on your head. Use them to listen when you are mastering and if you want to check to see what is happening as you make your corrections you can use the RTA. Before the advent of DAWs no one could even see the waveform and still did an amazing job mastering.
Trying to master visually is NOT the way to go and will only make things a lot worse. Your eyes are for seeing and your ears for listening. Don't confuse the two.
FWIW and YMMV
:shock:
EV No one said you could NOT LOOK AT AN RTA but NO ONE USES an
EV
No one said you could NOT LOOK AT AN RTA but NO ONE USES an RTA to make eq adjustments EXCEPT YOU and the people who use HARBAL. Your ears are what you should use for mastering and you should let you eyes do things they were designed to do like photoshopping a picture to use on your website.
Why would anyone want to "fill in the blanks" or "take down the overs" looking at an RTA when that MAYBE part of the music you are trying to master.
and
WOW those really are some very nice rooms!!!!! too bad we can never see a picture of your room.
hueseph wrote: [quote=MBBCFP][quote=Thomas W. Bethel][quote=Step
The secret to a great mastering job is hiring a GREAT mastering engineer.Please tell us what a great mastering engineer does.
You need to click on that www link under Thomas Bethel's signature. Notice that his monitoring system is likely worth more than your entire setup. Yeah. I'm not kidding. And lo and behold! Not a single Be****ger product in site!
Thomas, did you give Hueseph a kickback for this?