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Alécio Costa 7 April 2003

Hi friends! I am quite far from the USA, down here in the south of Brazil.

I know that Manley, Avalon, API, Focusrite would be much more appropriate gear to improve my console's mic preamps (02R).

However, I would like to have some opinions of yours regarding the following products. Any idea is very wellcomed.

1) Sumit Audio 2BA 221 $589
2) MP20 PreSonus $499
3) M-Audio Tampa $629
4) symetrix 302 dual $260
5) Focusrite Trakmaster $399
6) Focusrite Octapre $+/- 1000
7) Digimax 96KLT $+/- 1000
8) Grace 101 $599
9) dbx 386/376 $499

I wanted some nice stereo mic preamp with a reasonable compressor. No need for tube sound or equalization.

Something that might be reasonable leap from 02R mic preamps, not into having more gear that will not add any quality.
However, also, staying in the $1000 range.

p.s: Kurt mentioned the new 4 channel ISA also.

Thanks in advance
:p:

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Comments

golli Sun, 05/04/2003 - 13:40

When the Beatles first whent to the US, a reporter asked "how did you come to america?"
John Lennon replied "we turned left near Greenland".
Well, to get to Iceland, turn right at Greenland.
ACB, it's between Greenland and Norway just north of England.
ACB, I'm disapointed in you, I know exactly where Brasil is.
:cool:
Kurt could hold a lecture for the studio community here, and go horseback riding, being a rancher and all. Just make woman bring bass.

anonymous Sun, 05/04/2003 - 15:03

kurt ,
i think you are absolutely correct - i can't negate
even one thing you are saying. all i am really
saying is that it really doesn't matter. i used to
carry my own class a mic pres with me all the time -
with all this garden hose cable for mics ( my own also)
and my personal speakers . i definitely hear the
differences that you are talking about. i just feel
that maybe through experience and trial and error,
the simpler and quicker i make the recording
process - the better the record turns out. but many
rec.org posters here almost feel like their stuff
will never sound good unless they have some $5K
mic pre. the voodoo factor only mentally holds
back greatness from happenning. but i agree with you-
mic pres have differences - and some are better
than others. but if you are trying to carve out a mix-
and the vocal doesn't quite sound as balanced and
open as it would have been if it had been tracked
with some joe nutsack dc to light pre, then i'll just
tweak it so it sounds like it was tracked thru that
dc to light pre. so even though i guess we just
have to respectfully disagree , i am really not
dissagreeing at all. o.k. ??
by the way , i think posting 7 mic pres on the web
would be very informative to many here.

anonymous Sun, 05/04/2003 - 15:44

Question about Sebatron -

Don't see any mention of the VMP-2000 on their website. I'll be in the market for a dual mic pre in the near future and the Sebatrons sound most interesting. The quad would be great but doesn't fit the budget right now. Saw the picture of the VMP-2000 posted earlier in the thread and wondering where that came from. Any ideas?

KurtFoster Sun, 05/04/2003 - 16:05

Originally posted by stealthbalance:
kurt ,
....... all i am really saying is that it really doesn't matter ..... i just feel that maybe through experience and trial and error, the simpler and quicker i make the recording process - the better the record turns out ..... but if you are trying to carve out a mix- and the vocal doesn't quite sound as balanced and open as it would have been if it had been tracked with some joe nutsack dc to light pre, then i'll just tweak it so it sounds like it was tracked thru that dc to light pre.

I edited the quote a bit to summarize. I hope that's ok, not trying to make it sound like you said something you didn't I just wanted to address these specific parts..

I don't think that tweaking a part can do the same thing as what a pre can in the first place. If a pre is too slow and therefore dark, boosting highs or cutting lows won't make it sound more open. That's just one example. I feel that it is good to have several different types of pres to use just as a painter would have different rushes and colors. Same with mics. EQ is not the answer to everything and tweaking is a "Let's fix it in the mix" solution at best. I feel it is much better to capture it correctly in the first place. I completely agree with you that the best stuff happens when you work quickly. I have had the same thing happen to me. But I prefer to only use EQ as a last resort. I personally feel that mic and mic pre selection in the beginning is a better approach and results in less "turd polishing" . :tu: I have that comparison finished and it's ready to post as soon a s NWR gets a little less busy. I've tried to post three times today already but I can’t get the upload to go. It is quite interesting how different pres and configurations can make the same mic set up sound drastically different. Kurt

anonymous Sun, 05/04/2003 - 16:30

Stealthbalance,
I agree with you about the priority of working fast to allow the performer to stay in their mental zone. However, I find that using good dear allows me to work faster because I don't have to futz around to get a good sound. A mic pre with good headroom is going to (theoretically, if it is worth the money you paid for it) react better to dynamic changes, for instance. Doc

KurtFoster Sun, 05/04/2003 - 22:46

OK! I did it! I recorded an 8 bar intro to a song I wrote (no clearance hassles) through all the high end pres I have here right now. (WISH I HAD A PRESONUS! :D ) I used a Neumann U87Ai, into the the Millennia SST-1 ORIGIN in solid state mode without and with the transformer and in tube mode without and with the transformer, Amek Neve 9098, Sebatron vmp – 4000 in the flat no boost setting and the Speck 5.0 without and with the transformer in the path.

I used no eq in the path, the same cabling to the workstation, marked my position in the chair on the floor, placed the mic is exactly the same place and picked the guitar in exactly the same place. I matched the levels as closely as I possibly could. There are some variances in performance but Hell, I’m not Segovia.. I am going to post this in the Audio Projects Forum… check it out.. let’s see if you can guess which is which and let’s hear some opinions. Kurt

Davedog Mon, 05/05/2003 - 14:45

Well I gotta agree with all of you on this one.There are instances where the "MOMENT" must be captured or it'll never sound right no matter what you record with.Then theres old studio curdmudgeons like me who can nail a track when ever i need to.Then you want the best stuff you can get that will enhance the mixers ability later at the mixdown.
That being said, the Millennia Origin i heard at Kurts on Saturday was by far the best sounding unit for this I have ever heard.All you experienced hands know the necessity of having different pres and comps so things dont bump into each other quite so easily.And then he plays me this track. Its got three guitars(same Guitar) some vocal passes..(same vocalist same mic)...same place in the room.Incredible separation with no fiddlin around. No need to re-eq or compress...nuttin honey!!!
And the Sebatrons not far behind it.
Now Kurtster, you need to be fair on this little test and cop to fact that that guitar is above most in its tone. Make no mistake all you listeners, this guitar would make a lot of pres sound very good on its own merits....
enough of my causin trouble....peace

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