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ims731 16 March 2011

Looking to to do an upgrade...would love to go intel but AMD is really inviting, $ per performance.
Has anyone had good experience with AMD system?
If so what components seem to work.

Thanks!

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JohnTodd Wed, 03/16/2011 - 09:53

I use them. My current rig is an Athlon II quad with 8 gig RAM, onboard video and sound. I use my FP10's audio for studio work, and just use onboard audio for movies, etc.

So, no need to spend money on a sound card or video card. Spend that money on more hard drive space!

My motherboard is a Gigabyte GA-MAGPMUD2H (or something like that!). I don't think they make them anymore, but something along those lines works for me. I do everything "in the box" and am heavy on plugins.

ims731 Wed, 03/16/2011 - 12:07

Thanks audiokid...I'm putting together a potential system based off of a the MSI 890FXA mobo w/ Phenom 11 1100 6 core CPU. I've used Gigabyte on previous builds. This mobo new to me but I like it's specs and it will allow me 12g max on ram.
Any experience with this brand. I'm really green to AMD.

Thanks!

audiokid Thu, 03/17/2011 - 10:09

Here is my AMD rig : http://recording.org/content/479-ion-studio-high-end-audio-video.html but I see they are not using AMD in their current lineup. I've read somewhere a while back that the new i7 with win7 was 60% better performance. I may be way off on this and could be totally incorrect.
I also recall that an optimized AMD machine is very stable and its why AMD was a better choice for some production companies.

Looking on PCAudioLabs line-up, whom I recommend for good information, they are also not showing AMD options in their line-up either! You may want to rethink that.
I would take the time to call them ( a custom PC DAW shop) and see why.

audiokid Thu, 03/17/2011 - 14:22

I was curious to see if my beast was over the hill or not so I contacted Fred @ PCAudioLabs for us:

Hi Chris. For the past 5 years or so, we've been providing Dual AMD Opteron systems for the AMD64 LIVE artists. (Dweezil Zappa, Peter Frampton, Grand Ole Opry, Harpo Productions (Oprah), and most recently, Austin City Limits, along with a few others).

We also sell single processor custom built AMD Phenom II X6 based systems. These are 6 core CPU systems, hence the X6.

Fred Rosenbloom
PCAudioLabs
818.986.2673 x102

audiokid Thu, 03/17/2011 - 14:40

Your welcome.

When I see "live" attached to anything I instantly think stability. Seeing them being used for those companies, very impressive. My AMD is rock solid and is blazing fast. I was thinking of selling it because I have 4 others here. I got it for running the audioimpressions DVZ Strings that has now dropped off the radar.
Where do you live? Maybe you are interested in a deal?

audiokid Thu, 03/17/2011 - 15:19

hehe, that's nothing. Thats what is was built for. It has three fans and if my memory server me right, an 850 watt PS. Yikes, I'm spamming the forum here that wasn't intended. But, all in the name of supporting the community though: It all goes around :) My apologies to our protocol.

This thing is a beast. But, it is 18 months new. Hardly been used. Loaded with Win 7 pro 64bit and 16 gig. Its a 2.4 with dual video and more. I'd have to look for the specs. It stands up to my new i7 965 so that should tell you something. The RAM is what you are needing so what ever you get, get RAM. If you need more, you can add way more. Bess Win 7 64bit. Make sure your machine has room to improve if needed.

The main thing here for anyone looking at AMD, what I have is very impressive and I have some of the best PC's money can buy to compare it too. AMD is solid.

If you are really sold on AMD, shop around and get an idea on what it will cost. PM me if you are very serious.

BushmasterM4 Mon, 03/21/2011 - 23:27

I've used all AMD in the past. But my next build is an i7 2600k based system. You need to look at the floating point calculations of the chips to see how they stack up against each other. On games AMD systems run on par with Intel, but games dont rely on FP as much as DAW's do. But with DAW's which are floating point hungry, Intel has them beat. I use an AMD Phenom II 965 Black Edition Quad now as my DAW rig, and based on research I'm switching to Intel for the next build (next month). Based on speed of FP calculations, I should see a huge leap in performance.

MaxGain Tue, 03/22/2011 - 06:44

Go Intel Core i7 6 core I helped a friend build one for $1800.00. Intel Core i7 6 core cpu, two 1 terabyte SADA hard drive's, Win 7 Ultimate ,
12 gig of ram , Motherboard, ATI Radeon HD 2GB vid card, case, 600 watt power supply Memorex CD, DVD Burner, Video capture card.
Plus service warranty. $1800.00 my friends

EricIndecisive Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:36

Uhh do you mean the i7 6 core, 980x, which is a $1000 PROCESSOR?

I just built a new computer which I love... very fast. Spent about $1700 but have to send in the rebates so it will be less. I paid more than I should have on the motherboard, but I needed this computer before I move in 2 weeks, and the mobos for this processor are a pain to get right now. I also got a monitor, so that was about 2 hundo that you could take off if you have one. Also got an 850 watt power supply since they sold out of the 750 I wanted at the time. So you could definitely spend less. i7 2600k, which I plan on overclocking to 4-4.5 ghz since apparently it is very easy (and the k version is unlocked, so it's meant for it). I put Win 7 64 bit, along with all my applications on a 128 gig solid state drive.. the thing FLIES. Especially with the SATA III 6gbs ports on the motherboard. I have another hard drive for storage. So whenever I am working on a music file, I just move the folder to the solid state drive, and move it back when I'm finished.

EricIndecisive Tue, 03/22/2011 - 16:47

Thanks MaxGain, yeah I talked to a bunch of friends who are really into computers and they say the i7 is pretty incredible... I bought it mainly to handle HD video editing, 3d, and music, so far so good!

But to the OP, I would definitely recommend a solid state hard drive. My sessions load up almost instantly on this thing. Regular mechanical hard drives are such a bottleneck!

MaxGain Tue, 03/22/2011 - 16:53

Mac's are very nice machines but my friend that I was talking about early looked into Mac first but the price was to high, with the setup he got he was able to get 12 gig of RAM and Mac didn't offer that , over two gig was extra and drove the price up even higher. But , Mac's are nice machines, I just wish the price would come down. I have been working on win 7 off and on for about a year and I finally bought a copy for my AMD setup.
It kicks butt on XP. I haven't seen any difference in performance between the mac's I have worked on and my friends core i7 PC , I work on his machine a couple of times a week. I do music , Video editing and Graphic software such as Adobe suite, no problems with win 7.
I think win 7 and Intel core i7 have pretty much evened out the playing field if you are running 64 bit win 7. I wouldn't say that if I was talking about XP verses mac though, LOL.
Max

Jeemy Tue, 03/22/2011 - 16:56

Just for me, doing design, I've been locked into Mac for years. Feels like Mac can do PC but not vice versa. When I actually look into the software I use for Mac onry (Creative Suite, Quark, Things) its fairly apparent I'm locked into software thats tied to hardware. But similar with Windows and Sage. Audio is perversely the only thing I'm happy to cross-platform with....

MaxGain Tue, 03/22/2011 - 18:43

A few years back I took a couple of courses at the local junior college to get better acquainted with music software and the college only had macs.
OS 8.5, it sucked but so did win 98, man those were miserable times on the computer. I was all set to get the new g-4 when if first came out and use pro-tools but I quickly found out that Pro tools only worked with the digidesign audio interface witch was $750.00 at the time and pro-tools didn't have good midi at all so I started looking around at the other software, cakewalk sucked back then logic was overly complicated as was digital performer and only worked on a mac so I ended up trying cubase, I couldn't get any help with cubase at school at all even though it was cross platform.
Everybody at school used mac and actually burned on me endlessly cos I didn't get one, lol. I built a intel pentium 4 with 2 gig of ram from the ground up. I still have it and it still works, it runs at 4.6 ghz. I ran win 2000 on it till XP came out. I bough all the parts for from frys electronic for around $400.00 the g-4 was $1600.00 bare bones. Mac just priced me out.
I have an M-Audio Delta 1010 audio interface with a life time warranty but it's still working fine I got it back in 2002. I had to learn Final cut cos a lot of my video editing buddy's us it but I use vegas on my computer it is so much easier. I also use premiere a little I am really starting to like it. That's where you really need a fast computer, Video editing, I edit here at my place and render on my friend's core i7.
Max

audiokid Tue, 03/22/2011 - 19:15

AMD or Intel... if its built like a beast and optimized, its a beast and should work great. I have an AMD beast and a new 965 i7 beast and either blazes. I experience no difference in performance. The AMD however, does the video better hands down on this system I have. A good/ no excellent power supply, ample RAM and quality components in a properly optimized system makes a big difference.

JohnTodd Wed, 03/23/2011 - 06:25

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.blackvip…"]Black Viper’s Windows 7 Service Pack 1 Service Configurations | Black Viper's Website | www.blackviper.com[/]="http://www.blackvip…"]Black Viper’s Windows 7 Service Pack 1 Service Configurations | Black Viper's Website | www.blackviper.com[/]

Also, once it is set up, learn to take things out of the system - startup items, unneeded services, and so on. The link above gives EXHAUSTIVE details on each of these things. Don't let it intimidate you though, just read what each one does and follow the recommendations.

In this way you will clean up and customize your operating system. Makes it even better.

You'll also want to look into BIOS tweaks, which you must look up to match your specific motherboard.

All these things make a tremendous difference, Intel or AMD.

Welcome to home brew computers. You are one of us now, friend. BRU-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

ims731 Wed, 03/23/2011 - 06:50

As I'm going back and forth as to which format AMD or Intel, my wife see's my wish list of the systems I've configured and ask's me, "Do you just like building computers? Why not just buy it already configured?" Questions is, anyone who has bought one pre-built and configured; how easy are they to work on/upgrade, etc.?
I like the idea of turnkey, but I also like to know what's going on internally.
I build, I know I guess.

JohnTodd Wed, 03/23/2011 - 07:35

Build it yourself for best quality! It is not as cheap as a ready-made, but the price difference is offset as you go up in price.

IOW, you can't compete with a WalMart $300 system, but that system is not very good for DAW work.

OTOH, if you spend over $6-700 on a build-it-yourself, you'll have a system that can totally rock your socks off. You'd pay much more for that one ready-made.

You'll also learn a lot. And building these days isn't hard: just match up the specs on all the components and plug'em in!

Use magnetic bearings or fluid bearings on fans for much reduced noise. And a high quality case will include rubber grommets for isolating hard drives, etc. And never skimp on the power supply! A bad supply will take out your computer entirely when it goes down. And it will go down.

All these things are "premium" price points on a ready-made system. But these special fans cost only $3-4 more than regular, and a high quality supply is only $100 more than a cheapo. And there is more...later.

EricIndecisive Thu, 03/24/2011 - 21:06

Building it yourself is definitely the best way. I hated trying to fix my mom's Dell, with all of their stupid packaged drivers. When you buy yourself you can go straight to the manufacturer and get the latest updates. Not to mention their warranties are often better than what you would pay on a prebuilt. Putting it together is intimidating to look at, but not that hard. Once you look at the power supply, which looks like an octopus, 2 cables go into the motherboard, then you have the cables that will run your fans power, a PCI that goes to your graphics card, then the SATA for your hard drives / CD roms / whatever else.

audiokid Mon, 04/04/2011 - 12:43

Current 2011 Update that was sent to me:

Dual AMD Opteron systems are used for the AMD64 LIVE artists. (Dweezil Zappa, Peter Frampton, Grand Ole Opry, Harpo Productions (Oprah), and most recently, Austin City Limits, along with a few others).

They are obviously tested and very reliable if they are using them for live shows with deep pockets to buy what they want.

cfaalm Mon, 04/04/2011 - 14:49

If you do enough research you can build it yourself. Prebuilts from family stores have a few major drawbacks.
1. Expansion/Upgrading can cause problems/limitations because of (lack of) non standard motherboard features and limited PSU power.
2. Motherboards are often non standard, specially built, which leaves you with drivers of the builder. They are not always the greatest.
3. They probably skimped too much on the graphics card anyway. We're not gamers, but we do want a bit more than a flimsy Intel IGP.
4. They come loaded with extra bloatware, trial versions and whatnot that you spend half a day removing or questioning yourself if it can be removed. You'd rather be in control over what is installed in the first place.
5. Nothing about it is ever assembled with a musician in mind, so it can't ever be optimized unless you start replacing parts. That will cost you everything twice over.
6. Pre-builders like Dell have special PSUs. If it breaks down, you go to Dell or some kind of shady copy-cat brand to get a new one. I'd rather have the latest greatest from a premium brand if I have to replace it.

All'n'all: if you're going to buy pre-built, go for a pre-built DAW, not a Dell, HP, Acer etc. Good luck on that.

TheJackAttack Mon, 04/04/2011 - 15:07

cfaalm, post: 368022 wrote: If you do enough research you can build it yourself. Prebuilts from family stores have a few major drawbacks.
1. Expansion/Upgrading can cause problems/limitations because of (lack of) non standard motherboard features and limited PSU power.
2. Motherboards are often non standard, specially built, which leaves you with drivers of the builder. They are not always the greatest.
3. They probably skimped too much on the graphics card anyway. We're not gamers, but we do want a bit more than a flimsy Intel IGP.
4. They come loaded with extra bloatware, trial versions and whatnot that you spend half a day removing or questioning yourself if it can be removed. You'd rather be in control over what is installed in the first place.
5. Nothing about it is ever assembled with a musician in mind, so it can't ever be optimized unless you start replacing parts. That will cost you everything twice over.
6. Pre-builders like Dell have special PSUs. If it breaks down, you go to Dell or some kind of shady copy-cat brand to get a new one. I'd rather have the latest greatest from a premium brand if I have to replace it.

All'n'all: if you're going to buy pre-built, go for a pre-built DAW, not a Dell, HP, Acer etc. Good luck on that.

I can get behind the final statement without issue. In fact that is what I recommend. I don't really recommend family style computers for audio regardless of being able to make them work or not (with specific exceptions).

In regards to #6, this is not true. Dell etc use the usual power supply companies for their sourcing. You are correct about them generally being the cheaper models and I have had to modify cases to replace them simply because the switch or whatever didn't hit the case knockout correctly. I have not found points 1 or 2 to be generally the case at least here in the US. 3, 4 & 5 are very true.

I like the opening statement as well but in general the best research a layman can do is to visit the pro audio DAW builder websites and check out what they are using. Most "research" one can google up is based upon gamers and their machines, myths, & legends.

cfaalm Tue, 04/05/2011 - 15:29

Yay Jack, I cannot speak for the US market of course. My findings on these points are based upon stuff I encounter here in The Netherlands. Since we're such a small country I guess a lot that goes here is the same in more countries in Europe. No one will bother making Dutch motherboards, right?:wink: Though I can think of a couple of nice designs.

These are my individual findings with Dell and Packard Bell in our little country which may not speak for every pre-built in Europe.

on #1 Packard Bell uses motherboards (I'm not saying exclusively) that are only in the OEM channels, not in retail. I never feel good about using that with a DAW PC.

on #1 + #6 I was kinda hoping Dell get their PSUs from the usual manufacturers. It's just that I read the pinouts used to be different in the old days. It seems to me that a motherboard in that case cannot be in retail channels. According to what you're saying that may have changed, though, or was only briefly the case.

To sum it up it is perhaps better to say then: * There are hardly any reference models, as in "good for DAW", motherboards in pre-built PCs. So you run a risk of incompatibility with your soundcard.* We all know how chipsets can make or break a DAW. Now that's fairly easy to google.

on #6 I got the idea that on assembling your Dell that you get a beefier PSU when you go all out on options, extra HDDs, better GPU-card etc, but you get a lower rated PSU when you stick with the standards. That's maybe another reason why extra's look expensive with Dell, apart from them making a nice margin. So when you want to upgrade you can hit a wall with your PSU. True? Bear with me for a moment.

I guess no one wants to run the risk of having to upgrade the PSU of your pre-built. A friend of mine wanted a better graphics card. His Dell PC was all standard in the beginning, 1HDD, 200W PSU P4 3.0GHz. He bought a bigger LCD and needed a better GPU for it. The one in there couldn't handle the bigger screen. He couldn't just simply get another fat graphics card, but had to choose carefully not to overload the PSU, the first one he got from a store was too heavy for the PSU. He was lucky enough I had an obsolete AGP GPU lying around, so he could upgrade for free.:cool: Now how often do you hear that? This couldn't have happened if he would have ordered the machine with a fat GPU in the first place. They would have had to upgrade the PSU at assembly. Now I know his PC is kinda old, being AGP and Netburst and all, but still. The GPU I had for my friend was just as old, it could have been available at Dell, chronically speaking. Is this only logic or could it grow some flesh?

About visting DAW-builders: yeah, absolutely, that's how I picked up a lot, shamelessly I might add, but also reading here on RO, various other forums and reviews. DAW builders are however less and less open about the choice of motherboard though and for good reasons we can understand. Would you disclose all your mixing secrets?

I also read somewhere: You choose a soundcard first (based on facts and features) and then get to the manufacturers FAQ and info to learn what's the best motherboard/chipset for this particular soundcard. Once you have the motherboard everything falls together easily. Sounds good to me.

It was in 2006 when I built my rig. Right now I couln't tell anyone what parts to choose. Are chipsets still hit and miss these days?

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