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anonymous 4 August 2011

Out of all the comps you've used or heard mentioned, what is the most useful, must have or desired mastering compressor?

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soapfloats Sat, 08/06/2011 - 22:19

Only dealing w/ plug-in models... but get good use out of 1176 for individual channels and Vari-Mu for stereo apps... usually the 2-bus, but sometimes drum buses.

While I'll use others from time to time, these tend to be my default comps, and also sometimes the 2500 models on stereo buses.

FWIW - I'd love to see how my digital groups/buses would compare to the same stems sent to a hardware version of the same compressors.
In addition to the accuracy of the modeling, I'm as interested in how the variances in signal chain and units play a role.

RemyRAD Sun, 08/21/2011 - 23:17

Okay, okay, are we actually talking most useful compressor or most useful limiter? And why? For instance, when I need limiting, the 1176 pair strapped for stereo works very well. On the other hand, if I want to impart a more "FM radio like sound", I'll use the Orban 418A. These units both have peak detectors.

When I want the best overall wideband compression (we're not talking about spectral compressors are we?) I'll use DBX 165A's (RMS detectors with VCA gain reduction) or the UA LA 3A's with electroluminescent optical-based compressors.

If I want the best spectral compressor, Dolby 165A's.

And are we talking about recording applications or disc mastering? Like it really matters? Of course it does.

I think we all understand this? A? (Or in Canadian speak, eh?)
Mx. Remy Ann David

audiokid Fri, 09/16/2011 - 18:43

Michael Fossenkemper, post: 374958 wrote: For me, the Weiss gets used the most.

TrilliumSound, post: 375008 wrote: Over here, the Weiss as well (De-esser or comp).

LCD's make me nervous because they always diminish over time, rendering a perfectly great product useless. Trying to replace them or the backlight is a nightmare. Can you connect this to your PC for visual monitoring?

TrilliumSound Sat, 09/17/2011 - 06:50

audiokid, post: 376303 wrote: LCD's make me nervous because they always diminish over time, rendering a perfectly great product useless. Trying to replace them or the backlight is a nightmare. Can you connect this to your PC for visual monitoring?

I don't know if LCD's are problematic but I have the DS1 and the EQ1 for years and never had a problem. I think it is pretty easy to change if it needs to be replaced. No, you can't connect it to the PC for visual monitoring or control.

Richard

audiokid Sat, 09/17/2011 - 10:06

Those small LCD displays, very much like the ones on the Weiss fail over time but you are correct, there are third party techs that have the backlight foil to repair them close to new but most of the time, not like new. The replacement foil may crop off the edges making your display even smaller, including missing some content.
Companies that make high end processors like this, which are 100% LCD reliant to function should always have an optional external monitor connection now.
I've got two products here that cost over $14000.00 that are useless unless I patch something in that is close but not perfect. Plus, my eye sight isn't as great as it was including we're all becoming more and more accustomed to use large HD monitoring for everything. This is a major oversight. Just my 2 cents...

Thanks for the Foote link!

thor Thu, 11/17/2011 - 15:24

+1 for the Cranesong STC-8.

Although to be fair, I have to say the Manley Vari-MU gets used on the lion's share of productions around here, just a gentle touch to bring everything together. It excels at emphasizing the rhythmic elements in a mix and putting everything in the same space. For pop/rock, it just sounds the business.

We also have an API2500, which is eminently useful on stuff that's too extreme for the Manley or Cranesong, as well as things that really need a good spanking to sit up and bark ;-)

Cheers,
Thor

audiokid Thu, 11/17/2011 - 22:48

thor, post: 379239 wrote: +1 for the Cranesong STC-8.

Although to be fair, I have to say the Manley Vari-MU gets used on the lion's share of productions around here, just a gentle touch to bring everything together. It excels at emphasizing the rhythmic elements in a mix and putting everything in the same space. For pop/rock, it just sounds the business.

We also have an API2500, which is eminently useful on stuff that's too extreme for the Manley or Cranesong, as well as things that really need a good spanking to sit up and bark ;-)

Cheers,
Thor

thor, you put +1 for the Cranesong but I'm assuming if you had to make a choice, you would buy the Manley Vari-Mu first?

thor Thu, 11/17/2011 - 23:46

Hi audiokid,

in fact no. I'd have to do things a little bit differently, because the Manley gives you a lot for free that I'd have to work more at getting with the Cranesong, but it's there too. The problem with the Manley is that it seems as much an EQ as compressor, giving a nice presence boost that works for a lot of material. On harsh/cold sounding mixes it's not really appropriate, whereas the Cranesong can be used on anything and you can really get a range of sounds out of it. The Manley has one sound, one that in many cases is perfect, but not always.

So I'd rather have a meat and potatoes compressor to begin with, before the Manley. Which is how I bought mine, STC-8/M first, then Manley, then API.

Cheers,
Thor

audiokid Mon, 11/21/2011 - 19:36

Would the STC-8 M be ideal for pop, dance, electronic music including classical? and the API 2500 for rocks ,blues and edgier music?

I'm looking at used for both these. Has the STC-8 had any improvements in the last few years? Anything I need to be aware of with it?

What are the differences between the mastering version?

thor Tue, 11/22/2011 - 01:15

I think it's weird and misleading to think of one compressor for one type of music or another. Yes, I know that SSLs were used on lots of pop/rock, etc. Sometimes I'll use the API on a jazz master, or the STC-8 on black metal. It all depends. I use a compressor more to sculpt the rhythmic and dynamic feel of the music than to add volume or any specific "tone", I rarely hit the compressor hard enough for it's "sound" or tone to come through at all. I think the exception to this would be the Manley, which due mostly to the transformers does add "character" even at conservative settings. The API can be used to make things aggressive, but there are other ways to get there... It can also be exceedingly transparent, as can the STC-8 (which can also be made to 'sit up and bark' when needed).

Cheers,
Thor

audiokid Tue, 11/22/2011 - 08:29

thor, post: 379417 wrote: I think it's weird and misleading to think of one compressor for one type of music or another. Yes, I know that SSLs were used on lots of pop/rock, etc. Sometimes I'll use the API on a jazz master, or the STC-8 on black metal. It all depends. I use a compressor more to sculpt the rhythmic and dynamic feel of the music than to add volume or any specific "tone", I rarely hit the compressor hard enough for it's "sound" or tone to come through at all. I think the exception to this would be the Manley, which due mostly to the transformers does add "character" even at conservative settings. The API can be used to make things aggressive, but there are other ways to get there... It can also be exceedingly transparent, as can the STC-8 (which can also be made to 'sit up and bark' when needed).

Cheers,
Thor

I had to ask this question because I was over at gearslutz reading quite a few hyped threads about the STC-8 vs the API 2500. I found it hard to believe the STC-8 was choice for electronic music and had to ask why? I assumed it is because it can keep things clean where the API adds colour no matter which way you go about it.

I wouldn't consider myself a mastering engineer or do I ever think I will profess to be one but I do want to have fun with it and get things as best I can. I'm pretty convinced now, the STC-8 is one of a few I'm going to buy next. I was considering the Weiss but its pretty pricy. Automated de-esser plugins make more sense for me. The API 2500 sounds like a must have.
I'm now looking to buy the STC-8. Will I wish I saved my pennies and bought the STC-8 m?

thor Tue, 11/22/2011 - 23:42

I would certainly consider the Weiss as well, we have the EQ and it's brilliant. The DS-1 is way more than just a de-esser, and very transparent. If I were starting over and looking for my first compressor, it would be between the DS1 and the STC-8/M.

(the /M adds fully detented pots on all controls, which is handy. As far as I know the unit has been in production unchanged since it's introduction, but a quick email to Dave Hill should clear that up. Mine also has a mod giving a smaller range of control on the knobs, meaning a click or two gives a small change, instead of a big one. Again, handy for mastering, as more extreme settings aren't really useful.)

Cheers,
Thor

Massive Mastering Wed, 11/23/2011 - 23:55

audiokid, post: 379490 wrote: John, what will the M, add for you?

PS.

Are you getting your STC-8 upgraded or a buying a new one?

If I buy a used STC, are they all the same or has there been some upgrades in the last few years? Anyone know?

Total recall. I should have said I sent it back after 3 days. Returned it and paid the extra ($1.5k?) for the M. Fell in love fast and realized it was going to be on just about everything (and it has - Just about everything since I've had it) and it wasn't going to be one of those "here and there" units.

Don't know if there are any significant changes over the last several years... Nothing that I know of off hand (and I talk to Dave and Scott with some regularity).

acorneau Fri, 11/25/2011 - 06:54

audiokid, post: 379538 wrote: After 8 years using the STC-8, what do you mean, the "harder" side?

Shorter attack times (3-5, as opposed to 7-10 in the past); higher "Shape"; more compression (2-4dB instead of just tickling 1 dB) but only when it works for the song, of course.

I guess "harder" isn't the right word... maybe "more aggressive" compression.

Having a piece of gear for 8 years is impressive as well.

We got the STC-8H, Massive Passive, and HEDD at my old studio back in 2003. The studio I'm working out of now has those same pieces as well as a good bit more.

Massive Mastering Fri, 11/25/2011 - 14:07

audiokid, post: 379564 wrote: If anyone reading this has a used mastering version, PM me.

Maybe try calling Scott at CS...

A) If I was going to sell one, I'd call him to see if he knew of anyone looking for a used unit.
B) I'd probably send it there to have it all cleaned and spec'd before selling it anyway.

Actually, that's how I found my Ibis...

audiokid Fri, 11/25/2011 - 15:58

John, sounds like you used the the standard unit for a while? If I'm not doing commercial mastering, is the Mastering version still worth the extra amount? Silly question, yes, I'm sure.
I see there is an "H" version to with the stepped outputs. I can get one of those used for $2800.
The mastering version has recall as well? How many recalls? Does it recall everything? I bet that helps learning quicker too, yes?

I can't find much info on the mastering version. Do you know where some specs are?

acorneau Sat, 11/26/2011 - 06:25

IIRs, post: 379593 wrote: I'm curious: why is that useful?

It makes the range for the threshold much more in line with what we need for mastering.

With the range in the standard mode you can only use "off" to 2, 3 at best. With the pad you get up to 6 or 7 (maybe 8) before you're topped out.

The other "golden" tweak is the jumper for the "Ki" side-chain. In the default setting "Ki" is just too much, but with the jumper moved it's much more usable for mastering.

thor Sat, 11/26/2011 - 11:46

Apropos longevity of gear, I don't understand people who buy and sell stuff, changing out their gear all the time. Either they're incredibly gifted engineers and can adapt and learn new equipment extremely quickly, or their looking for improvements in the wrong places - imho. The gear isn't where it's at, it's the operator of said gear...

The STC-8/M was the first serious piece we bought, way back in 2001 or so, and still use regularly. The HEDD, Manley Vari-MU and NSEQ-2 are also some of the first pieces we got and are still using (although the NSEQ-2 didn't last long stock, but after Fred Forssell worked his magic it's not ever going to leave the room!).

We do add gear, although slowly, and spend a lot of time getting to know all the subtleties and many ways in which we can put stuff to use. The longer I do this, the more I feel I can get by with actually less gear than before, and really don't need a whole lot for most projects.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Thor

audiokid Sat, 11/26/2011 - 12:31

thor, post: 379606 wrote: Apropos longevity of gear, I don't understand people who buy and sell stuff, changing out their gear all the time. Either they're incredibly gifted engineers and can adapt and learn new equipment extremely quickly, or their looking for improvements in the wrong places - imho. The gear isn't where it's at, it's the operator of said gear...

The STC-8/M was the first serious piece we bought, way back in 2001 or so, and still use regularly. The HEDD, Manley Vari-MU and NSEQ-2 are also some of the first pieces we got and are still using (although the NSEQ-2 didn't last long stock, but after Fred Forssell worked his magic it's not ever going to leave the room!).

We do add gear, although slowly, and spend a lot of time getting to know all the subtleties and many ways in which we can put stuff to use. The longer I do this, the more I feel I can get by with actually less gear than before, and really don't need a whole lot for most projects.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Thor

Boy is this spot on.

I don't need a lot. Just need the right stuff. My entire rig is streamlined. I'm building what I call my turn-key hybrid rig for hybrid musicians. The STC-8 sounds like its the perfect fit.

I was kind of jacked up on the Vari Mu but it sounds like a piece of gear that is something you'd add much further down the path. The more I read, and the more tube gear I get, the less I find day to day use of it. I will most likely change this opinion but its what I'm finding right now. Especially for compressors. If I want warmth, I use the summing amps and various pre's. I see a tube EQ in the future though.

Well said thor.

thor Sat, 11/26/2011 - 13:24

Hi audiokid,

the magic in the Manley lies not in the valves, but in the transformers. It has some serious mojo when working with anything rhythmic (i.e. pop/rock) and really brings things together on one 3D space. Between the Vari-MU and the STC-8 we could do pretty much anything required.

But yes, I would definitely start with the Cranesong. You're going to love it.

Cheers,
Thor

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