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anonymous 20 February 2005

hello here is my situation
i have
Shure ksm 27 mic
Yamaha O1v Digital Mixer
and hte prob is my vocal sings rock and when he screams the sounds becomes ugly like the sound of clipping but i used compressor on the mixer so the signel is under 0 db but still sounds like clipping when he screams
i dont know if i explained it in the right way but i hope someone can help me :)

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anonymous Sun, 02/20/2005 - 06:06

recman wrote: man thx for answering me
but i have no pre amp

Yes you do...

i connect mic to my mixer directly

Right here. That's a preamp. Make sure the input stage doesn't clip. Also make sure that the compressor doesn't work too hard - cheaper compressors can give ugly distortion if you push them.

anonymous Sun, 02/20/2005 - 08:24

the mic is KSM shure as i said :) that is on a normal stand with a filter infront of it 10 cintemeters far from it and the singer also is like 10 cintemeter away from the mic when he sings
i am really going crazy i dont know what to do i know i am missing something
i tell the singer when he wants to scream to get a little away from the mic but that way his voice sounds far
is it the mic ? but peple told me this is a good studio vocaling mic
any help would be appreaciated

anonymous Sun, 02/20/2005 - 11:29

Digi meters tend to be peak reading but may also have an average (RMS) setting. If it's reading peak (as it should be), keeping it well below zero as said above will eliminate converter clipping as a cause.
You didn't say whether the mic pad is on. It may clip there or again at the mic pre. (I don't know what the mic trim vs A/D level options are on the mixer.)
It could also simply be that with lots of compression you are hearing the 'hash that can be a natural part of some voices running in overdrive. :shock: 8)
Check recording with the same gain/pad/ -6dbfs peak A/D conditions w/o the compression. Is it clean?
Wayne

Kev Sun, 02/20/2005 - 11:30

I have a very short and simple test

Use a >10 dB passive pad between mic and mic input
and don't change the gain for now

If this does not change the situation then it could well be an overdriven mic

If it does improve things, then it could be because the front end of the mic-pre is being clipped even though the gain control is low. There are a few mic-pres with no gain control and only a output level control ( I know you have the 01V - just a bit of history)

another thing could be to lose the compressor for now ... just while you sort things out

anonymous Sun, 02/20/2005 - 15:14

man, i scream in my band,,, i've been through stuff exactly like this too,,,, tried every link in the chain,,, i just had to back off the mic!!! i think we all have a few frequencies in our throats that we can produce much louder than others,,, and sometimes it really is more that enough to clip a mic,, you may not notice it as easily as you would with an instrument, (like a bass guitar clipping at only one or two notes in it's range,, it's not always a bad thing to back off, but you will probably lose some low end and have to make up for it somewhere,,,, hell i could be wrong though, you just got to go through the BS of ruling out every potential problem till the last one remaining is found.... that's always it!!!!!

jonyoung Thu, 02/24/2005 - 12:43

Set your levels for -6db peak and use (if you have one that will do this) a compressor with a negative ratio setting. That way it acts as an expander and will boost the low level portions of the track upwards. On some vocals that are really dynamic, I use a low ratio compressor and also a limiter to tame both ends of the dynamics if necessary.

anonymous Fri, 02/25/2005 - 21:16

recman wrote: hi guys
i have tried all what u said
ther eis no Pad added
and set hte max db when he screams at -6db it is alot better but damn when he sings normal words it sounds sooo low :(

But now at least you have a known undistorted signal to work with, and you can now check to see if those earlier nasties come back with the compression back in. (Or maybe do some volume rides on the low parts and less compression to boot. 8)
Wayne

Kev Fri, 02/25/2005 - 22:56

yes

use a plug compressor and then lower the threshold on to it ....
this will make it seem even quieter
BUT
use the gain make-up and bring the level back up near the 0dbFS and you should have what you want

2:1 to 6:1 and experement with as much as 12dB ... or 16dB of compression
that is a LOT but it will give you an idea of how things work.

anonymous Tue, 03/01/2005 - 14:38

guys i finally think i am getting great results
i decreased db and let my vocal come alot closer to the mic
now when he sings low words his voice is outstanding and the sound comes soo deep and infront
but when he wants to scream he has to go back a little (which so far i think is a must even if u decrease db and put compressor -correct me if i am wrong about this please :) )
there is no clipping and quality is great but he sounds farand behind or in back i dont kno wwhat the english term for this
even though he is only like getting back his head like 5 cintemeters or 10 max
so wht to do ? any solution for example euqalizing it inmixing ?

Kev Tue, 03/01/2005 - 17:33

generally very good so far ...

... but he sounds farand behind or in back ...

3 things are going on here

1/ The sound of the mic is changing at you get back out of the proximity effect of the mic
2/ The sound of anything doies cahnge as you get forther aweay from it ... even outside ... perhasp even more so outside as the distance get longer ... complicated
3/ The sound of the room can have more inflkuence as you get back AND as you get louder ... again complicated

More accoustic damping and baffling can help BUT as some stage it is likely you will just have to balance the competing factors
delivery
technique
mic
mic placement
room

and more

Then you may just have to use some compression.
... and when ytou do ... you may wat got back to the top and re-assess all of it.

welcome to recording voice

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