This is a great topic and have read some very insightful replies. I am39. I started in the business in 1986 but never had the opportunity to go to a Full Sail type school. I've never worked on an SSL or a Neve console. I've never recorded a major artist or worked in Nashvill, LA or NY. I have had the opportunity to work in television, live sound, mastering, music recording, voice overs, broadcasting and more. And I've also had a dream job for the last 6 years in audio that only comes once in a lifetime. There's a lot I don't know. But there's a lot I do. My point is that you can be successfull without having to dish out 35 grand. But at the same time, I would have loved to have had the opportunity to attend one of those schools, and sometimes still would like to. I have seen grads come out of Full Sail with the confidence that took me a much longer time to aquire on my own. So I don't think we should dis those schools so quick.

I aslo believe that what this industry needs more than anything is continuing education opportunities from the manufactures. For example specific education on SSL products, Neve, Yamaha or the latest digital board. Protools is the only one that does that and it's over the top expensive.

Any suggestions on what a resident of Michigan should do?

I wanted to attend a college for the experiences... but I did not want to spend 4-6 years their learning general ed. and sciences behind things that I can not apply. I want to get into the field. I've been told time and time again that this is a skills field, not a degree field. My experience will carry me further.

So, this fall, I plan to get to the Recording Institute of Detroit and take both the Recording Engineer and Producer program. As I do not know where I'm going to end up in this field, I do know it lies around their.

And a year from this fall, I want to go to Recording Workshop. It was personally recommended to me by someone who went there. I have more trust in Rec. Wks. than RID. But I want to stay in state for now as I have a business to run...

I may also go toward a business degree at a small college. Hopefully just 2 years there. When I do that, I don't know. But I can figure that out. It's the recording schools that I'm really concerned about.

Ok I chose to use the Recording Connection, its like 3 or 4 grand.. At least it was like 8 or 9 yrs ago...They get you in touch with a studio in your area. You then go interview with the head engineer, and if your not a complete moron you most likely get the internship. They provide you with all the books and curriculum you need and it takes as long as you need it to. Most of the time it is a revolving door because many people don't understand that at a real studio you have to do things like clean up and get people food. BUT, don't get me wrong you will learn all you need to get goin and when your done with the program and you've proven to be a good assistant you will get hired on to work there.

I personally didn't finish the program because I had to work longer hours at my real job and had to take time for my family because I was having a child..But I've talked to the studio I worked at and they are totally cool with me coming back and learning more.

If you can come up with the 4 grand up front I highly recommend it, but definitely be prepared to do a lot of bitch work.

Chris

Aint that the troof Bent, but other than that, sit down, shutup, listen, learn and then when the session is OVER ask questions

berklee school of music, or eastman

HemlokSociety wrote: Aint that the troof Bent, but other than that, sit down, shutup, listen, learn and then when the session is OVER ask questions

here's my situation. see what you think. i'm 35 and have been bartending in, running and owning clubs for the past 13 years. i had/have some money in the bank so that's not a worry. my wife wanted to get her masters of music from full sail. she has a bachelors from uc-boulder already. i was interested in a recording arts program and thought, let's just go there. well....they have a lot of goodies. your spine tingles just playing in the studio, however, the classes are huge. the majority of the students were not too concerned about staying on task and didn't mind poor grades (annoying while in group work). I started looking into other options. my wife is doing the online program so i am free to go wherever (with her okay, of course). i have a friend in phoenix who has been trying to get into the conservatory of recording arts down there.
here's the rough part. i want to shoot video and record live audio, then do post production. this is a lot of work i know, but i have the drive. given that they don't do much foley work there, would it be a better option to go the entertainment career connection route? they have a specialized editing option.
anyhoots, i have my telephone interview with the conservatory in 3 hours so we will have to see. opinions are all good. i just want more inside. i'm bright enough to be pragmatic as to your reasons.
cheers.

I wanted to get an opinion on SAE institute (http://www.sae.edu)? All I have been able to find about them sounds very promising, but is it realy so?

I say the LA recording school. They have all the equipment the pro studios have and you get trained on everything that has to do with sound. Also when you get out u are pro tools certified

monetmelly wrote: Also when you get out...

Like on probation?

Greener wrote: [quote=monetmelly]Also when you get out...

Like on probation?

One other benefit - conjugal visits...

monetmelly wrote: I say the LA recording school. They have all the equipment the pro studios have and you get trained on everything that has to do with sound. Also when you get out u are pro tools certified

That does kind of beg the question - what do other schools use if they don't use "all the equipment the pro studios have..."

Do they have like Fisher Price microphones and KitchenAid mixers?

Do they have the drum kits from Costco? Or maybe Barbie guitars and Playschool Pianos?

Isn't it all the same thing? Apart from quality (prolly a function or two) what's the difference between a Neve and a Behringer when you're learning to mix?
The difference is if you blow the Behringer up no one will remove your extremities.
However I could see some benefits to not having pov pack gear, for instance my friends snare stand wont go up high enough to let me not hit my knee when playing... 1 extra inch of steel tube... Tight.

DOOD...
What U talkin about?!

Behringer is DA BOMB! IDK what this "Neve" shizzle is, but she sucked in Scream and was even worse in Wild Things DAWG!

Wutever tho! You bi-otches don't know quality if it bit you in da a$$.

I think U should go to Full Sale tho. My brotha from anotha mutha went there and he's now the manager at Guitar Center. He's living proove - u to can suxceed if you work hard and dream big.

Piece out...

monetmelly wrote: .....when you get out u are pro tools certified

This is not something they guarantee is it? There are 2 levels of ProTools certification in three possible directions of expertise. The first level requires 4 levels of courses each requiring between 16-40 hours of lessons then a final exam. Can they cram all this into a 10 month course in audio along with all the other necessary practical and theoretical skills? For certification, I hope they require a better than 85% score to qualify. Otherwise they're just churning out half educated hacks......like me.

That was totally killed by the thing you made me cough up after I was done laughing so loud. My face hurts.
On a serious note though, the _only_ reason someone should consider one school over another for anything up to bachelor is the quality of the "co-ed". When it's time to do masters or become a doctor, then look at the tech.
Pick a fun school and enjoy being young.

Great question. As a former academic advisor and music business vet, I'll throw out a few things that might help in making the decision as to what school is most deserving of your hard-earned money, particularly those related to the music industry.

The most important thing to realize from the get-go is that "best" is always relative. What is great for one person would not be good for another. And all sorts of things go into what makes a school a good experience for any student, girls/guys, what the campus looks like, proximity to home or its distance (for those looking to get away), the school's size, specialty, night life, etc. It's so different for everyone.

I went to school at Southern Illinois University. They've got a great R&T (Radio/Television) program there and that is a big draw for a lot of people interested in a career in entertainment. When I went in 1987, that was the program to check out. Now they have a Music Business program, where music performance is a big component, and a Hollywood program, where TV production, etc., is a big component. I did the Music Business program since I'm a drummer and found that the performance aspect of the program was something I really enjoyed.

SIU is six hours from Chicago and an hour and a half from St. Louis. In other words, it's in the boonies for the most part. But FOR ME, and frankly, a lot of people from Chicago, it was heaven. So think about the big picture when choosing a school.

Specific to music/engineering here is a brief list of the other things you want to consider and make sure the school your considering offers:

1. The classes you want. If you're a rock 'n' roller and the school your looking at teaches mostly jazz. Good luck.

2. There is a career office staffed by people who have actually had jobs outside of academia. Nothing is worse than asking for someone's help finding a job when the only paycheck they've ever accepted had a school's name attached to it. Better than someone who has just had any real job, is someone who has worked in music. That's where the real connections are at.

3. The school can document and put you in touch with their graduates working in the entertainment industry. If they can't do this, and have not kept track of their alumni, run away, and run away fast!

4. They have a formalized internship program with studios, labels. . .whatever. If you can't get your own internship, you'll want to have them help you.

5. Access to good equipment that is state of the art. No sense learning how to record on reel-to-reel if its not being used as much or at all anymore. This is very important.

6. The school will allow you to get "real world" experience. In other words, they'll either train you on the type of equipment mentioned in my response above, or they'll allow you to have a life outside of school that affords you the time to get an internship.

7. You like the people and the school's environment.

8. It's affordable. If a program offers to train you on all the latest equipment, for X billion dollars, but you can learn how to operate that equipment on your own by interning at a studio, is it a necessary cost to incur?

9. Be sure you can take classes other than engineering at your chosen school. While engineering is a very specific field, you'll want to learn all that other so-called boring stuff as well. Two reasons: Most employers will require it, and secondly if you ever want to run your own studio, you'll want to know how to market it, manage it, and add up the money you're making like an accountant would.

10. lease keep in mind that if you EVER plan on pursuing an Associate degree and THEN going to a four year college, you MUST make sure that the classes you're taking at the two year school transfer to whatever 4 year program you're considering. I saw too many students in my day who re-took so many classes and spent too much money doing so that I feel I have to advise you to get this cleared up ahead of time. The last thing you want to do is take highschool all over again three times: once in high school, once in your two year program and then again in your four year. Check with the schools and/or the state board of education to see what classes/schools are accredited in your state.

11. Bonus answer. Have fun!

Cheers,
Doc

About time I contribute to this thread since I'm one of the people who asked about schools like about 2 years ago! :)

Well last year about the same time I was laid off from my job in the semiconductor field, and I couldn't have been happier, no my job at KLA was great, educational, I traveled the world for free and got paid for it! Just the nature of the business was that they were moving manufacturing operations to Singapore and business wise that was the smart choice (80% of the chip manufacturing is in Asia) so I got me a nice severance package and a chance to go back to school. Now I live in the Bay area of california (think SF) so there are no SAE schools or Full Sail here, but there is Foothill Community College http://www.foothill.edu/musictechnology/

so luckily I lived near to a very affordable school that did offer courses in music recording and the such... and here is my assement of going there for a year.

I'll start with the bad because there really isn't much. The lack of hardware/outboard gear. Nothing to work with like the industry standards (well older standards) of NEVE, SSL, UA, or any other mic pres/compressor/limiter/saturation equipment, HOWEVER there is makeup for that explained later down the post. This is my only disappointment, but it is a JC and on a tight budget.

Now the good! The main staff are really good teachers, one being an actuall working musician and the other a studio owner/engineer for about 25 years, both being very easy to communicate to. The music technology department has 2 buildings. The first one is the lab room, about 30 macs with PT/Mbox's, and a Midi controller for each. Yes this is pretty much a Pro Tools dominant program, but students do get student discounts on PT gear and software, about to get a Digi003 rack w/factory bundle for $1000, so in the lab if you're a songwriter you have all the tools at your disposal. The 2nd building is my favorite, the tracking room. This actually sounds pretty good and we've done some class projects recording in it. There is the control room also, they have an older C24 console with a 192 HD system in which the mics pres in it do a good job when tracking and another thing good is the mic locker, enough mics to do any type of session and some great quality ones too, I think they have a few Neumans, I haven't tracked anything there for my solo projects so don't hold me to it. So you pretty much have everything to start recording and mixing a project. I will say the school's program is catered to a songwriter or artist looking at learning how to make a good sounding demo with all the digital tools that are out there, for recording engineering not so much but its a great alternative to any of the other facilities that charge 17K for a 6 month course.

One other added bonus though, and this is where the lack of hardware comes into play, is one of the teacher's studio that he's been toiling over the years is still open, and he has some of us students helping out on sessions that he contracted, so yes this is the summer of me being exploited and I'm gonna love it! here is link to that studio
http://www.suspectstudios.com/

So what have I gotten from the program so far? A better understanding how the music industry works, the list of hardware/software that are out there, better understanding of how PT works and the plugins, working on a more sophisticated machinary (as opposed to just work on an Mbox), and how much more I have to learn about everything in this field. If you're gonna succeed in this field you got to be highly motivated and don't think there is a job at the end of your time at school and look for material to work with. And also a school to retake my Japanese :)

BUT this all pales in comparison with getting some hands on experience, the school has been great for the academic part but there is no better way to learn than to get your hands dirty, which I hope to be doing this summer. This is coming from a guy who is just a student and acknowledges I've still got a long way to go.

hey all...i go to mira costa college in north san diego county and its great!!we just got a brand-new multi-million dollar studio with 2 control rooms,a huge tracking room,and multiple iso rooms...great gear and mics,and also certify to 201 in PT.ive been there for almost 2 years and i have learned SO much...i would recommend this school to anyone.

and the 20 dollars a unit isnt bad either...when its all said and done it may have run me about 500 dollars....not bad:)

Let me get this straight, you can study for like 20 dollars per unit?
Also, do they offer English? Best $20 you will ever spend.

At that price I can't imagine they pay the teachers! Maybe it's a teach yourself school.

I'm sorry I would be very careful before I put good money into any music recording school/program. With the state of the industry and many studios closing you are better off learning this trade by yourself. If you spend enough time on forums, reading books, and trial and error it will cost you much less and have the same effect on your career.

That's always the most common response. I do think, though, that while it's incredibly important to read forums and books and have hands on experience (and ultimately MORE important), it's also helpful to have a real-life person there to clarify and teach. A school's not utterly useless, not at all.

I just want to intern. That's how I'd learn the most, I think.

Has anyone graduated or from Ohio University with an Audio Production degree or currently attending the school for it? I'm about 75% sure i'm going to go there next fall but trying to be 100%. If no students or alumni, has anyone heard any pros or cons about it? Thanks

So from what I gather it is a better idea to spend your time researching the topic of audio engineering rather than going in to debt for school and gear and then you can make your money doing something semi-relevant until you have enough capital to invest in to the proper gear for your desired studio. It's pretty straight forward, if that's what you want.

I am in my senior year at Brigham Young Unversity in Provo Utah getting a double degree in Sound Recording Technology and Computer Science. Sorry, that was a lot of capital letters. ;) Here the recording degree is in the school of music - and the school of music is extremely competitive. Luckily I got through auditions several years ago. ;) I have had my studio for two years now and consistently have more work than I can handle! And I have found that having musical knowledge REALLY helps. It allows you to be so much more than an engineer - you have an informed opinion about the music and production, you can collaborate with artists/producers, and it makes you so much more valuable. And that helps you get the gigs. You can speak the language of the performers.

Hey hopefully you've figured out where your going for school and all! Anyway, I attend University of Marland Baltimore County, (UMBC). They have a four year bachelor program in Audio Engineering! We have 3 nice studios available 24/7 365 for recording majors!

Its not the same as cram programs like full sail, but instead offers a great way to learn all of the same skills, but have 4 years to expirement and master recording! Also, as part of UMBC's major program, you have to take instrumental lesssons, and classes just like any other music major. Honestly this is a good thing as an engineer, to have decent musical knowledge! There are better schools out there for music, (Juliard and the like), but Im quite happy with the program here, its a lot of fun too!

Hey bighigg42,
Are there any masters programs at your school in audio-related fields?

There is in Music Performance and Education, I don't think we have a recording masters program though =[

Do masters in recording-related things exist anywhere?

kheftel wrote: Do masters in recording-related things exist anywhere?

Might be semi-relevant?

Antress[/url]

Hey thanks, I'll check that out!

Hi im a rookie user here. im from italy and interested to addend an audio engineering course oversea but i am really scared and cofused about the choice of the school cause i havent direct contact with none attended one of them and online opinions are so different.
I made a search for school in us and canada i found that the most 'quoted' are

Sae (italian sae isnt good)
MI
Lars

but i found dozen of other univeristies, colleges or schools that offer a similiar course.
can someone help me?

thank u so much

Specifically Gospel

Hello,

I was wondering if there are any schools that specifically teach about the gospel music industry. My son plays the piano in a local gospel group, and has recorded in a local recording studio a few times. He is interested in continuing this, but would love to learn about the recording studio aspect of it. He wants to continue to record in a studio-a bigger one if possible. He wants to make a career out of working in a recording studio with the goal of one day owning one himself. What kind of degree would he need and where would the best place be to get it? Would the name of that degree be something like "audio engeneering"? He is in Michigan.

Thank you so much.

McNally Smith

Check out McNally Smith College of Music in St. Paul Minnesota. They offer a 4 year bachelors degree in production among many others.

Recording Engineering School

Sorry folks, I really have to post this. It's not nice-to-hear information but it's important for anyone thinking about attending 'recording school'.

If any of you are seriously considering attending a full time 'recording engineering' school such as Trebas, Full Sail, etc, you need to know this.

That (very expensive) so-called 'qualification' as a recording engineer is 100% useless. That's correct. The $50,000 (or more if you attend Full Sail) you spend will be gone, and you will be no better off than before you attended.

Think people. Those 'colleges' are not what they appear to be. They are full time cash-machines for the owners, and they make millions from suckering students into these expensive programmes, whilst they pocket the money and churn you out as fast as possible so they can sucker in another batch.

The are essentially no jobs whatsoever for a full-time studio engineer, and the very few that do exist pay nothing (ie you work for free), or $5/hr.

I hate to break it to you, but that's' the truth. Recording Engineering in a studio is no longer a career, it's a hobby. The reason is all the studios that recorded your favorite albums have all gone broke, and the few that remain are barely able to keep the utility bills paid.

Sorry folks, but that's the state of the industry. Don't do it!!!!

(Bracing for the torrent of flames)

Brian_Holmes If you read back a bit, I think you will find that most of the people here agree with you. It's just the starry eyed kids that still want to dream. $50000 would buy some nice gear and at least you would be in debt for something tangible.

Re: McNally Smith

jabez wrote: Check out McNally Smith College of Music in St. Paul Minnesota. They offer a 4 year bachelors degree in production among many others.

This so-called school is a JOKE!

Two of my friends attended there many years ago when the name was "Music Tech" or something like that?

Even Fifteen years ago, when you graduate from a school such as this there were no jobs available.

People that find success are the ones motivated enough to produce cutting edge material that has talent pouring out of it, even then, there are no laws for governing a "success".

Work your day job, build your knowledge slowly and always buy quality that will stand the test of time.

FWIW, it will take years of hard work to begin to learn your gear and improve your musicianship.

Do not expect success, EARN IT!

Check out the Institute of Audio Research in New York City... http://www.audioschool.com

Hi,

I managed to weasle my way into a commercial studio in Oslo, and I was talking to Jock Loveband who is the Head Engineer a while back about this. He told e a story from when he started engineering as an assistant engineer at the Power Plant studios in London (back in the day, about 8 years before they shut down) and he said that they actually shredded any application that had a recording school or degree as a reference.

He said that the general, stereotypical attitude from graduates is exactly what has been mentioned earlier in this post, they think the know it all. They graduate and believe that they are the masters of the audio industry and should be making the big bucks, and that all the top artists should be begging them for their expertise (in very, veeeery general terms. I know this does not apply to everyone). The guys at the Power Plant were fed up about trying to incorporate people whos cups were already full, so they just excluded them from the process entirely.

This story is one of the things I remind myself of every so often. Seeing as I will be starting a BSc in Sound Tech this autumn xD My cup must never be full :)

does anyone know anything good or bad about the ACM @ UCO?
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://acm.uco.edu"]Home - ACM@UCO[/]="http://acm.uco.edu"]Home - ACM@UCO[/]

I'm really wanting to go there for music production. It's a two year course for an Associate in Applied Science and then you can go on to work towards a Bachelor in Applied Technology.