to use your metaphor Chris, sometimes an annulment is in order. sometimes a couple are just not suited to the rigors of a marriage. sometimes a little jerk need to be slapped around a bit.

this is where we have parted ways in thinking in the past and most likely will well into the future. you want to nurture (i call it coddling) newbies and i believe that adversity is the best teacher. aside from the feeling these little creeps have ruined a really great thing we had in the past with a plethora bad music and recordings, these individuals are "scabs" who have undercut well established professionals by giving the milk away without selling the cow. imo, they should all be hauled into an alley and kneecapped.

in the golden age of recording studios, interning was the norm and i can say for certain there was no coddling. if an intern made one mistake or a breach of professional etiquette they were history. some people simply are not suited to do audio for a number of reasons. those who had the social skills, an aptitude and a desire to work through the stumbling blocks they encountered, became a success. now there's no filters, no one to say, "No", ..... no one to tell them, "Hey! You can't talk to people that way!". as a result the waters have become muddied and scum has started to form on the pond.

anyone can make a "real" record on just about anything these days. it doesn't really need to be that great sounding when an MP3 is the delivery vehicle and the end result is self distributed on EwwTube. i am constantly hearing / reading about people who make records on cassette porta-studios and TASCAM 388's or even a little all in one digital workstation like a BOSS tracker with 2 cheesie mic pres and a pair of 57's. content is the primary element. a good song and performance matters more than what mic, preamp or recorder was used. on this i know we all agree.

there is a value to working with less than stellar equipment, learning to eek out the best one can with what they have. but in no way should these newbies be encouraged to embrace a philosophy that good gear doesn't make a difference. where i get my shorts all bunched up is when said newbie becomes obnoxious in their own ignorance and attempts to proliferate this line of thinking. too many people can access this information and imo it behooves us to try to be sure that information is as accurate as it can be.

Kurt Foster, post: 455204, member: 7836 wrote: to use your metaphor Chris, sometimes an annulment is in order. sometimes a couple are just not suited to the rigors of a marriage. sometimes a little jerk need to be slapped around a bit.

this is where we have parted ways in thinking in the past and most likely will well into the future. you want to nurture (i call it coddling) newbies and i believe that adversity is the best teacher. aside from the feeling these little creeps have ruined a really great thing we had in the past with a plethora bad music and recordings, these individuals are "scabs" who have undercut well established professionals by giving the milk away without selling the cow. imo, they should all be hauled into an alley and kneecapped.

in the golden age of recording studios, interning was the norm and i can say for certain there was no coddling. if an intern made one mistake or a breach of professional etiquette they were history. some people simply are not suited to do audio for a number of reasons. those who had the social skills, an aptitude and a desire to work through the stumbling blocks they encountered, became a success. now there's no filters, no one to say, "No", ..... no one to tell them, "Hey! You can't talk to people that way!". as a result the waters have become muddied and scum has started to form on the pond.

anyone can make a "real" record on just about anything these days. it doesn't really need to be that great sounding when an MP3 is the delivery vehicle and the end result is self distributed on EwwTube. i am constantly hearing / reading about people who make records on cassette porta-studios and TASCAM 388's or even a little all in one digital workstation like a BOSS tracker with 2 cheesie mic pres and a pair of 57's. content is the primary element. a good song and performance matters more than what mic, preamp or recorder was used. on this i know we all agree.

there is a value to working with less than stellar equipment, learning to eek out the best one can with what they have. but in no way should these newbies be encouraged to embrace a philosophy that good gear doesn't make a difference. where i get my shorts all bunched up is when said newbie becomes obnoxious in their own ignorance and attempts to proliferate this line of thinking. too many people can access this information and imo it behooves us to try to be sure that information is as accurate as it can be.

Excellent points Kurt. I agree with you but I also believe if someone comes asking, its our gift and burden to be good role models and do our best to teach others best we can. Over the years I've been trying to find out where the confusion originates. I've been looking for the best words to describe "support of purchase" because that is where it really sums it up for me.

This problem isn't just with the youth, its everywhere. were all captivated by images. And advertisers, gear pimps purposely leave out the information that would stop us all from buying.

I was looking over a few post of mine regarding hybrid summing amps. I recall reading a bunch of hype about transparent vs coloured summing. Why would anyone want a coloured summing amp apposed to one that was transparent.

The big rail transparent amp (assuming it has inserts) can always be made to include colour so the transparent one would be the most useful and professional choice. All the rest of the summing amps tagging along therefore are ripoffs in the big picture. You are better off getting the most clear core that has inserts so you can use it to mix or master. Stack trannies and so on.

But, it the buyer is limited to affording one summing amp, never intends to insert character gear (possibly not thinking ahead)... I suppose there are dozen of noisy and cheap summing choices on the market then. But then... WTF would you even do hybrid summing for lol.

Think of all the questions and answers there are for people to sift through to finally realize how much support of purchase we are reading.

I'm rambling here... but.. I was a Josh at one time too.I recognize passion and how it can come across wrong. We can't give up. I think we need to find better ways to say things sometimes. My problem, I get too wordy and simply am not a wordsmith. I'm an auditory learner.
We're all trying to explain things about audio (sound) using words. Its pretty weird to say the least.

audiokid, post: 455208, member: 1 wrote: I was looking over a few post of mine regarding hybrid summing amps. I recall reading a bunch of hype about transparent vs coloured summing. Why would anyone want a coloured summing amp apposed to one that was transparent.

for the same reason someone wouldn't make a vanilla milk shake without any vanilla or sugar added. i like a little sweetness and flavor. or to put it another way, would an artist prefer to make a painting with color or with clear paint?

i will also submit, there is really no such thing as "transparent" electronics. there is no straight wire with gain. a Millennia is going to impart a different signature than a Grace or whatever. i personally find the "transparent" thing to be boring. my favorite records were all made with Tridents, Neves and API's, with a sprinkling of Spectra Sonics and 610's as well.

audiokid, post: 455208, member: 1 wrote: Excellent points Kurt. I agree with you but I also believe if someone comes asking, its our gift and burden to be good role models and do our best to teach others best we can.

I'm all in for that !!
Thing is we answered a question about desk placement and it became a cheap vs pro gear debate.. shouldn't this whole topic be on a different thread ?

pcrecord, post: 455213, member: 46460 wrote: I'm all in for that !!
Thing is we answered a question about desk placement and it became a cheap vs pro gear debate.. shouldn't this whole topic be on a different thread ?

(y)
Possibly renamed a different title called support of purchase lol and used as an example. I'm not at all worried about it though, but will accommodate the majority. I like to think of us as a positive democracy in search of mutual advancement for the good of our industry.
NOTE: I got called into this thread to moderate/ close it. Then started following it a bit and came to the conclusion this is yet another young guy getting schooled by pros who are trying to help a guy lost in the flash. Kurt is exactly on point. I fully agree and could say a lot more but why... The newbies dilutions of grandeur has been happening since the day I went live back in 1998.

Its just another forum thread. and obviously an irritant for Kurt. I don't really know why we get so upset about it all.

I think we need to come up with a understandable response thread ready to point newbies to, that will sum it up. Something we can always edit it and improve on. Not to discourage, to help newlyweds be realistic. To explain how cheap may work but once it gets congested, busy, dynamic it all starts to fall apart.

Then sit back and watch how they process it all.

a lot of threads here go waaaaaay off topic. it goes where it goes. perhaps create a new category to move this and others like it to. something like stupid newbie arrogance. ???

Here is a correlation to what I see happening in the recording world.

I painted my first house at 12 years old. I learned to paint in kindergarten so I figured I could paint a house too. I've been a professional painter for 40 years now and have been hearing this line since the first day I went pro.

"I'd paint it myself but I don't have time".

Well, I suppose we need to ask people, Are you doing this for fun or do you want to go pro. If it's for fun or a hobby, then whatever you do really doesn't matter.

If you are going pro, then we start here which IMHO begins with listening.

In painting, it begins with how you hold a brush and if you can even hold it without shaking.
In music, my way of thinking, if you can't hear properly then you shouldn't be recording or mixing pro.

Kurt Foster, post: 455218, member: 7836 wrote: a lot of threads here go waaaaaay off topic. it goes where it goes. perhaps create a new category to move this and others like it to. something like stupid newbie arrogance. ???

Now we are getting somewhere.

AudioGaff did this here. He couldn't take the newbie question so we created a newbie forum. Well... that's like being racist lol! Isolating and segregating. The pros never chimed in and the Newbies lived on one side of the tracks and the pros lived on the other. Eventually that started to become this digital audio forum and the rest of the forum became old farts like us.

Support of Purchase starts overtaking the best of the best until we have guys raving about how the new Behringer sounds just as good as the RME QS. I can think of a few respected pros that no longer chime in here because they didn't want to hear the truth. Or how the "new" Pro Tools sounds so much better than the past. Yet I hear that zzz all the time. It bothers me but I live with that sound. It goes on and on. Where do you draw the line? Are digi preamps really Pro level? Are plugins Pro Audio? They never used to be, but they seem to be now.

What was the last AD you used?
What type of music are you doing?
How many tracks?
Do you want live room or virtual?
Can you even hear a mix properly?
What monitors are you using?

It gets really complicated.

I eventually merged all the threads into a unified forum for us all. Then categorized it to how we see it now.
There really is no answer.

i was just being jerkish ...... :giggle: . Support of Purchase is actually a great way to describe it.

i don't think however that the op is looking for that kind of validation. it was more like self aggrandizement.

Kurt Foster, post: 455227, member: 7836 wrote: i don't think however that the op is looking for that kind of validation

None of them are. They don't know they are actually doing it or got sucked into "Support of Purchase". They haven't reach the maturity in the craft to know the difference between what they really need apposed to what people are telling them. Thus, would believe 10,000 newbies all sucked in apposed to the 10 pro's who are giving them the straight goods.

Look at gearslutz. Its the pinnacle of forum pollution. After Jules left here, he did everything he could to build a website for support of purchase. Now he's supporting the buy and sell Reverb.com which will take out the boutique hardware manufacturers next. Crazy.
But I can't blame Jules. He's doing what he can to save his investment too.

Fletcher, is he even alive.
Mixerman . Taking gifts from a manufacturer and (I don't know... knowingly, unknowingly) misleading newbies as well. From my latest shitfest with him, it sounded like he wasn't even aware of how dated and fucked up he really is now too.

Its a race to the bottom.

Surely one would have an EASIER time with recordings done in perfect conditions with what may be the most expensive gear you can buy, but again, like you said none of this really matters if the song and performance are not good. However, nobody listening is hearing the gear- they are hearing the frequencies, dynamics, and mixing that has been done, presented in whatever bit depth/bit rate/sample rate. Meaning that one could use mixing to manipulate frequencies and dynamics in a way that does the same thing as expensive analog gear, or anything else you could possibly think of. And also like you said, this has the benefit of making you work a little harder and sharpen your skills.

It's a box with an input and an output, and as long as whatever happens inside that box can alter the input to any degree (which modern DAWs and plugins do fully allow), then you can achieve the same output. If you can deny this framework then you have a misunderstanding of the absolute fundamentals of sound and the resolution of modern software. That is where music is going.

Now I'm not saying I have yet, I'm still young, but how many of you have actually achieved any sort of success with recorded music, commercial or not, after upgrading your gear? If you did, was it really because of the gear? Or because you wrote better songs, delivered a better performance, learned to mix a little better, or marketed yourself better?

Also, my music is not strictly rock. I suspect many of you are recording somewhere around rock genres that are requiring you to record most if not all tracks with microphones in a physical space. Or if you're running things in and out of your DAW multiple times through rack gear. In this case, subtle differences between preamps or AD converters would have more of a cumulative effect on a mix where many tracks are additive in similar frequency and dynamic boosts and cuts. Well, then you could use mix bus processing to correct for this. In any case, I am not dealing with strictly acoustically recorded music. Likely most of my music will only have vocal tracks and occasional acoustic guitars actually recorded with microphones. Meaning, the subtle shortcomings of a cheaper interface will not be as additive across tracks, can be corrected more easily, and will be obscured or supplemented by other tracks that do not rely on gear.

If you really believe that music is wholly headed for mediocrity and there's nothing good coming out in the mainstream these days, then your style will probably become more and more antiquated and reach a smaller audience. I know plenty of people who think that most everything past classical genres of music is wrong, and they don't exactly have the largest fanbase. Seriously, if you don't believe me then you haven't been paying close enough attention since at least 2015. A ton of great sounding, well produced music has come onto both the mainstream scene and even the online / home studio scene in just the past few years especially.

Here's an example of the principle I'm talking about from Graham Cochrane. If you don't already know him, he is very well respected and has done shows/talks with many of the biggest producers in the industry:

the more you know, the more you realize what you don't know. You however Josh, know it all ....... :cool:

that video is a scam. he wants people to go to his site and then give him their email addy to receive a PDF. do ya think he's getting paid? duhhhh! $75 k a month and it's not by selling records. he's never made a real record ever or worked with any known artists. he's making bank by telling people like Josh what they want to hear. they've already outed this guy at GS and i would bet all over the web.

JoshHPMusic, post: 455229, member: 46107 wrote: Surely one would have an EASIER time with recordings done in perfect conditions with what may be the most expensive gear you can buy, but again, like you said none of this really matters if the song and performance are not good. However, nobody listening is hearing the gear- they are hearing the frequencies, dynamics, and mixing that has been done, presented in whatever bit depth/bit rate/sample rate. Meaning that one could use mixing to manipulate frequencies and dynamics in a way that does the same thing as expensive analog gear, or anything else you could possibly think of. And also like you said, this has the benefit of making you work a little harder and sharpen your skills.

I'll comment on this paragraph, Josh.

(other than the monitoring system itself) Excellent gear matters when recording, not mixing. Are you actually recording and if so, then good gear captures the best. If you don't know this, then you have never recorded a thing. If you have recorded something, please share what you have so we can understand where you are and how to help you better. Hearing examples about now would be timely :)

Generally speaking: When we listen to music, having the best listening and monitoring is paramount. If you can't accurately hear what you are capturing or mixing, then you can't make good decisions. You are guessing. So really, from a pro POV, professional all starts with your acoustic environment and how it all translates.

Everything else you talk about is wind. It has no meaning to us in this thread. If you want to discuss plugins, editing, software, looping etc that would be another topic.

JoshHPMusic, post: 455229, member: 46107 wrote: Meaning that one could use mixing to manipulate frequencies and dynamics in a way that does the same thing as expensive analog gear, or anything else you could possibly think of.

A part of this is true. Computer softwares are to a point were one could mix an entire album and get great results.
But there is two condition

1. The capture needs to be of quality (if you don't have a good recording what ever you do will sound as bad as your room instrument, mic and preamp and converter...
2. You need a good monitoring system to make the right decisions (room monitor and D/A)

This

pcrecord, post: 455232, member: 46460 wrote: A part of this is true. Computer softwares are to a point were one could mix an entire album and get great results.
But there is two condition

1. The capture needs to be of quality (if you don't have a good recording what ever you do will sound as bad as your room instrument, mic and preamp and converter...
2. You need a good monitoring system to make the right decisions (room monitor and D/A)

This is what differentiates Professional from Hobbyists.

My guess, Josh is not really recording anything. He is looping, using samples, VSTi. Not likely blending microphone tracks to anything of any size.
Am I correct Josh?

If you are, and would like some help with mixes, post a track so we can get you sorted out and on track with us.

Kurt Foster, post: 455230, member: 7836 wrote: the more you know, the more you realize what you don't know. You however Josh, know it all ....... :cool:

that video is a scam. he wants people to go to his site and then give him their email addy to receive a PDF. do ya think he's getting paid? duhhhh!

Kurt, I may not know everything, but guess what- you don't either. You've probably absorbed more information in your time than I have, but maybe I have better intuition? Not saying I do, but intuition is a different game than straight up knowledge and even experience. Both necessary though. What I'm saying is that you can't call somebody wrong whenever you disagree with an opinion based on the fact that you are older.

And it is not a scam. He is not getting paid for endorsing any products, and the vast vast majority do not pay a cent to learn from him. And by the way, he uses all the cheap gear, for his own mixing business!

audiokid, post: 455231, member: 1 wrote: I'll comment on this paragraph, Josh.

(other than the monitoring system itself) Excellent gear matters when recording, not mixing. Are you actually recording and if so, then good gear captures the best.

When you listen to music, having the best listening and monitoring is paramount. If you can't hear what you are capturing or mixing, then you can't make good decisions. You are guessing. So really, it all starts with your acoustic environment and how it all translates.

Everything else you talk about is wind. It has no meaning to us in this thread. If you want to discuss plugins, editing, software, looping etc that would be another topic.

I can agree with you about acoustic treatment, monitors, and listening environment. I plan on doing everything I can to get optimal room response and am going to pick up a pair of Focal CMS65's or CMS50's soon.

But I don't really care what the thread is about or what the forum is about. That is not relevant to actually making good music. What is relevant to making good music, which I'm sure is what our primary focus should be here, is everything and anything related to the process. Many of these steps, far more important than gear. Chasing gear to make better music is chasing a mirage. Like you said, it's companies advertising to us telling us we'll get better music, maybe even sell more songs if we just buy this one more thing... and that's the real scam. Aside from the time you waste researching and debating gear when you could be writing, mixing, marketing, basically anything else.

audiokid, post: 455234, member: 1 wrote: My guess, Josh is not recording. He is looping, using samples, VSTi. Not likely any microphones.
Am I correct Josh?

You are somewhat correct. As I said, I am really only recording vocals and acoustic guitars with microphones/analog gear. The rest is modelers, synth engines, DI, software instruments, plugins, etc.

pcrecord, post: 455232, member: 46460 wrote: A part of this is true. Computer softwares are to a point were one could mix an entire album and get great results.
But there is two condition

1. The capture needs to be of quality (if you don't have a good recording what ever you do will sound as bad as your room instrument, mic and preamp and converter...
2. You need a good monitoring system to make the right decisions (room monitor and D/A)

ok this is true but only under particular conditions like the quality of your DAW program, the quality of the processors (plugs) you are using and as mentioned, converters, monitors and listening environment. after that you have to have good taste and in spite of what your Mama said, you are not a most beautiful Son who can do no wrong. chances are if you don't know or understand what you are doing, you are not going to make a hit record in an "Odd Shaped Room" or any room for that matter. it's not just the song or the tools or the talent behind the glass, it's the sum of all. all that said, there's still a reason the majority of major records are recorded in reals studios with LF consoles. the only major genre that uses VSTi's is RAP and POP / URBAN music (all the same i submit). any clown can cook canned beans, a monkey could mix VSTi's.

JoshHPMusic, post: 455235, member: 46107 wrote: I can agree with you about acoustic treatment, monitors, and listening environment. I plan on doing everything I can to get optimal room response and am going to pick up a pair of Focal CMS65's or CMS50's soon.

Nice. Don't forget about acoustic treatment and bass traps. Speakers are important but after acoustics. The best speakers are useless in a room that is lying to you.

JoshHPMusic, post: 455235, member: 46107 wrote: But I don't really care what the thread is about or what the forum is about. That is not relevant to actually making good music. What is relevant to making good music, which I'm sure is what our primary focus should be here, is everything and anything related to the process. Many of these steps, far more important than gear. Chasing gear to make better music is chasing a mirage. Like you said, it's companies advertising to us telling us we'll get better music, maybe even sell more songs if we just buy this one more thing... and that's the real scam. Aside from the time you waste researching and debating gear when you could be writing, mixing, marketing, basically anything else.

Good points.

JoshHPMusic, post: 455235, member: 46107 wrote: You are somewhat correct. As I said, I am really only recording vocals and acoustic guitars with microphones/analog gear. The rest is modelers, synth engines, DI, software instruments, plugins, etc.

Cool, you are in good company, a few of us around here do the same thing. :)

JoshHPMusic, post: 455235, member: 46107 wrote: What I'm saying is that you can't call somebody wrong whenever you disagree with an opinion based on the fact that you are older.

wtf does how old i am have to do with it? i mean other than i have 50 plus years of experience vs. your what 19 years of living with Mommie?

i'm listening to tons of new stuff on the Tube and online. i'm not living in a cave for cris sake.

Kurt Foster, post: 455238, member: 7836 wrote: wtf does how old i am have to do with it? i mean other than i have 50 plus years of experience vs. your what 19 years of living with Mommie?

i'm listening to tons of new stuff on the Tube and online. i'm not living in a cave for cris sake.

LOL!

we should all change our avatars lol!

remember this?

Yeah, its perfect

Lol. Good fun, boys. I think we just have some different ways of thinking about things. Me being younger means that I think more in terms of how things are arranged and structured in a computer setting and workflow, and I'm probably more tuned in to very recent music that surrounds mainstream a little more. It's just the beginning right now but I'm confident there's gonna be a lot of great music coming to the forefront that is being done more and more exclusively on computers, and even in less than ideal situations. Rap, Hip-Hop, R&B, Electronic (and all the sub genres), etc. are mainly being made and produced by my generation. Keep your eyes peeled, an open mind, and you'll be glad. Oh, and don't call it "Urban" music... that's a little racist :cautious:

BTW they're gonna start automating the mixing process itself soon... or at least parts of it. Let's not get into that though, I don't wanna freak anyone out! AI is scary stuff :censored:

JoshHPMusic, post: 455243, member: 46107 wrote: Lol. Good fun, boys. I think we just have some different ways of thinking about things. Me being younger means that I think more in terms of how things are arranged and structured in a computer setting and workflow, and I'm probably more tuned in to very recent music that surrounds mainstream a little more. It's just the beginning right now but I'm confident there's gonna be a lot of great music coming to the forefront that is being done more and more exclusively on computers, and even in less than ideal situations. Rap, Hip-Hop, R&B, Electronic (and all the sub genres), etc. are mainly being made and produced by my generation. Keep your eyes peeled, an open mind, and you'll be glad. Oh, and don't call it "Urban" music... that's a little racist :cautious:

Cool, I'm always interested in learning. We're open to learning more about computer music. How to mix ITB.

What songs are you talking about?

JoshHPMusic, post: 455244, member: 46107 wrote: BTW they're gonna start automating the mixing process itself soon... or at least parts of it. Let's not get into that though, I don't wanna freak anyone out! AI is scary stuff :censored:

Can you explain more?

JoshHPMusic, post: 455243, member: 46107 wrote: don't call it "Urban" music... that's a little racist :cautious:

that's so condecending. i grew up in east Oakland and i have tracked and mixed more Rap, Hip Hop, R&B and Blues than a cop can shake a night stick at and i was on the picket lines in front of Woolworth's and Sears in the 60's so i think i'll call it what i want.

and the reality is there is a huge resurgence in analog and large format console mixing. "'">Uptown Funk" is a perfect example. just another thing you are ignorant of. your attitude that you are more in tune because you are young and that older people are out of touch is another indication of your impudence and belies how much you are truly ignorant of.

i hope this gets put up as a sticky so it can be here for years to embarrass you. just deserts.

Kurt Foster, post: 455247, member: 7836 wrote: i grew up in east Oakland and i have mixed more Rap and Hip Hop than a cop can shake a night stick at so i'll call it what i want.

and the reality is there is a huge resurgence in analog and large format console mixing. just another thing you are ignorant of. your attitude that you are more in tune because you are young and that older people are out of touch is another indication of your impudence and belies how much you are truly ignorant of.

i hope this gets put up as a sticky so it can be here for years to embarrass you. just deserts.

Dude, I'm not even trying to offend you. Why do you continue to be so hot-button on here? Please stop being so reactive to every single thing I say.

audiokid, post: 455245, member: 1 wrote: Cool, I'm always interested in learning. We're open to learning more about computer music. How to mix ITB.

What songs are you talking about?

Lately really been getting into people like Daniel Caesar, Sabrina Claudio, River Tiber, etc. They're all in the modern pop-R&B camp. Not sure where/how their stuff was recorded but this goes hand in hand with the modern aesthetic I'm talking about. Other examples are actually a lot of the modern mainstream hip hop albums, some of which started out on soundcloud using cheap gear. But also bigger albums belonging to Drake, SZA, Charlie Puth and many others over the past 3 years especially that have really advanced this sonic aesthetic. Of course, many are recorded and produced in big studios, but undoubtedly with a lot of mixing happening in the box and with less analog gear. Charlie Puth basically made the entire hit track "Attention" on his laptop and that baseline and the guitar plucks are friggin' samples! Go on YouTube and watch the Rolling Stone interview about Attention. Then we can go into people like Skrillex and Deadmau5 who created movements off of their laptops and headphones. Also, YouTubers like FKJ, Andrew Huang, Scary Pockets, lots of people not using multimillion dollar studios or anything even close.

audiokid, post: 455246, member: 1 wrote: Can you explain more?

I don't know a whole lot about it right now but LANDR is a very early adaptation of this. Not perfect, yet, but as AI improves these kinds of things will be much better delegated to "robots". In seconds can analyze for masking, Fletcher-Munson curves, stereo field placement, compression, and then even reference learned material for stylistic manipulation. With a good neural network trained with a large enough volume of material, you can do almost any cognitive task. Self-driving cars, much? What will be left will be stylistic choices, which will be offered as various options and available at the click of a button. Then, mixing becomes less utilitarian, less critical, and more a creative/stylistic task.

We kicked LANDR out of here lol! Upset the Mastering engineers. We're onto all this Josh. But I get what you are saying.
You are underestimating us but that's ok.

What other forums are you frequenting? How did you come to feel like joining us? Do you have other recording guys like you, following you?

silly me! i just remembered, " Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

and just as i guessed, the little snot gets 5 pages of attention.

Kurt Foster, post: 455250, member: 7836 wrote: and just as i guessed, the little snot gets 5 pages of attention.

Geese Kurt, I wish you didn't feel or think that way. So negative and destructive. He's just starting out.

Kurt Foster, post: 455250, member: 7836 wrote: silly me! i just remembered, " Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

and just as i guessed, the little snot gets 5 pages of attention.

Is being kind to others more a Canadian thing these days? I mean holy crap. The hatred some people hold onto today is mind blowing. I would never talk like that to anyone, especially to a young man showing interest in learning. Yes, he's not got it all sorted but he did come here for a reason.

I'm sad reading this. I'm glad I'm not living around all the hate. I can turn it off where I am.

JoshHPMusic, post: 455243, member: 46107 wrote: It's just the beginning right now but I'm confident there's gonna be a lot of great music coming to the forefront that is being done more and more exclusively on computers

Of course, using a mic and learning to play an instrument need efforts. Just play with loops and VSTi.. much easier ! OMG, how did those loops made ?? actual recording... right ??

JoshHPMusic, post: 455243, member: 46107 wrote: Lol. Good fun, boys. I think we just have some different ways of thinking about things. Me being younger means that I think more in terms of how things are arranged and structured in a computer setting and workflow, and I'm probably more tuned in to very recent music that surrounds mainstream a little more.

NO !! Age has nothing to do with it. There are facts based on science that we learned and you didn't !! Do you have a clue of what is a standing wave ? Yes sure, google it and come back saying yes I know all about it !! :ROFLMAO:
Your not in the Matrix and can't bend the laws of physics... You can do everything in the computer but at some point it needs to hit the analog world to be heard.

JoshHPMusic, post: 455248, member: 46107 wrote: Why do you continue to be so hot-button on here? Please stop being so reactive to every single thing I say.

You assume too many things about audio recording and about each of us... I'm finding this thread funny and I'm just entertained to read
You have a goldmine of valid and well proven info available to you here at RO.
But your cup is full, you need to digest some of your pride and realize you don't know everything.

audiokid, post: 455252, member: 1 wrote: I would never talk like that to anyone, especially to a young man showing interest in learning.

That's the thing Chris, all I read is justifications that he knows better. Where's the interest in learning ?
When you want to learn you ask a question read the answers, if you don't get it you ask more explanations.

I had an apprentice at my work as an IT a few years back. He would ask me a question and immediately state 30 answers before I could open my mouth.
I would ask him to stop assuming things before knowing the facts but he couldn't. Just sad and plain annoying... ;)

audiokid, post: 455252, member: 1 wrote: The hatred some people hold onto today is mind blowing

o_O being called racist while he attacks me with ageism might have annoyed me. not hate though. and his shilling for that Graham Whutzhisname guy ....... insulting me and Marco ..... i guess i'm just f#%*ked up Chris. :confused:

Well I'm not reading through all this so I guess I missed those comments. I still don't think we need to drop to that level in our responses. It makes us look bad too. And we can always ignore ignorance.

Its obvious he thinks he is smarter than all of us. But still.

I'm closing this thread. Its gotten so stupid, not much left to salvage.

Cheers!