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anonymous 24 September 2003

What do you guys prefer in terms of the lower end ($200-350) kick mics. Sennhieser E602, AKG d112, ATM25 (heard a lot about it on guitar but never kick, as its advertised for) and so on. In the market for one and just wanted to test the waters here.

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KurtFoster Wed, 09/24/2003 - 21:10

For a long time i have been a loyal dedicated user of the D112 for kicks, floor toms, bass amps and even distorted guitar tracks. However I was recently lent a D6 from Audix to check out and I am a convert. This thing sounds perfect without any EQ at all! They are a bit expensive but I think they are worth it. Try one, you'll like it!

quartermoonpro Wed, 09/24/2003 - 21:53

I personally like to use an EV RE-20 on kick. Gives you a nice bottom end and still the beater click as well. I personally don't like using a D112 much.. usually ends up sounding like a basketball type sound, but then again, depends on what you're going for. YMMV. Usually, mic selection depends a lot on what type of sound you're going for.

Bobby Loux Wed, 09/24/2003 - 23:05

I just took back my Beta52 today. I was getting a mid range "honk" sound that would not go away. I switched out my pre's from tubes, neves, mackie board, etc.. and couldnt get the tone I wanted.... I scooped out the mids, played with phase, choked out the kick, moved the mic all over the place to get the sound I was hearing in my room yet still not happy...

well I echanged the beta52 for the Audix D-6 slapped it in my kick and it sounded great! no tinkering no more "honk" mid range. the D-6 is scooped across the mids and sounds very warm..I really dont like the term "night and day" differences, but this really did fit the description. I will be borrowing my friends D112 just to hear the difference on my kick in my room, but I suspect I'll be keeping the D6 unless the D112 floors me!

i would look at the D6 if you can rent or borrow a few mics as I have to make the best decision thats right for you, your kit, and your room.

good luck

Doublehelix Thu, 09/25/2003 - 06:46

I have a few different kick mics that I switch between:

AKG D112
AKG D12e
Superlux PRA218B
MD421

I have never thought about using my 441 on a kick before, but I just might have to try it!

Everywhere I go, I hear good things about the Audix D6, I am going to have to try that one too. I have a pair of D2's for toms, and they are really wonderful.

anonymous Fri, 09/26/2003 - 04:22

No one kick mic will work on every kick drum so if you've got a few kick mics at your disposal then try them all out. It's surprising to find just how different they sound on different kicks.

Lots of people hate the D112 but it sounds fantastic on our DW studio kit yet on the previous DW kit we had it sounded like arse.

The Beyer M88 is a good tight sounding rock kick mic.

Doublehelix Sat, 09/27/2003 - 09:06

Originally posted by Davedog:
ATM25......I have a 57 in my collection thats a very old uni-dyne model and it smokes a lot of 'kick-only' mics out there.Audix D6.Audix D4.Back in my 'pro' studio days I loved the Sennheiser MD409 for fast heavy rockin stuff.It never got muddy no matter how fast the drummer kicked it.

My buddy just picked up a Sennheiser 409 off of Ebay, and loaned it to me this weekend (I have a full-band session scheduled). He suggested that I try it on guitar cabs, but I might just stick it in the kick to give it a try there too!

Davedog Sat, 09/27/2003 - 11:00

DoubleH....you are gonna be really shocked by the MD409 on a speaker cabinet.Dont be afraid of getting it too close...It cant be done...If you have one of those real 'throaty/breathy' kind of singers, a tenor/baritone range like most of the rockers these days, try it on vocals. This thing will blow you away....A semi-secret underrated mic....well, the big pro guys have em....the new mic is the MD609 though I have not heard one, those in the know who have tried it claim theres a bump in the 2K range that is not as pleasing as the older 409's.Good luck and lets hear a report of your results......

Doublehelix Sun, 09/28/2003 - 12:16

Originally posted by Davedog:
DoubleH....you are gonna be really shocked by the MD409 on a speaker cabinet.Dont be afraid of getting it too close...It cant be done...If you have one of those real 'throaty/breathy' kind of singers, a tenor/baritone range like most of the rockers these days, try it on vocals. This thing will blow you away....A semi-secret underrated mic....well, the big pro guys have em....the new mic is the MD609 though I have not heard one, those in the know who have tried it claim theres a bump in the 2K range that is not as pleasing as the older 409's.Good luck and lets hear a report of your results......

DD, we actually ended up using a D112 for the kick as the first mic out of the cabinet, and after trying a few different positions, we got such a good sound, we left it alone, so I really didn't get a chance to try the 409 on the kick. But trust me, I pulled it out of the mic closet at the very end there when I wasn't happy with the sound of the D112, but the very last placement choice with the D112 did the trick, so I put the 409 away.

Tonight, we are adding the "real" guitars (last night was all scratch direct guitars), so I am planning on sticking the 409 on the Marshall cabinet and giving it a try. I am pretty picky about my guitar sound (I am a guitarist), and have been known to go thorugh several different mics for a given song until I find that "magic bullet" that fits the song/amp/player. I am anxious to give it a go however.

Originally posted by Han:
One of the best kick mics is the AKG D12(E)
It's the oldest too, 50 year!

Agreed!!! I picked one up recently, and have used it to great success. Not as "clicky" as the D112, a bit more "boomy" I would say...

Well Han, it appears we have similar tastes in mics...MD441s and D12E's (among others).

DH

anonymous Mon, 09/29/2003 - 10:59

Originally posted by Doublehelix:
bummer! My buddy came and picked up his mics, and I have not had a chance to get the 409 back yet, but I hope to borrow it again for the Tuesday night session...

Also, I did a quick search on Ebay...and there are no 409's to be found, but there are a few of the new 609's...

good luck finding em and if you do.. plan on paying at least 400 bucks EACH for em.

I got 3 echolette branded md409's and they kick ass on Guitar and Toms. I'll try the kick too. havent used em on vox yet.

a little known fact about the 409 is that's what was used for roger watters vox on "dark side of the moon".

and I havent heard anything good about the e609's. for 99 bucks what can ya expect?

anonymous Mon, 09/29/2003 - 18:23

About 6 months ago I was looking for the perfect kick mic, and I have to be honest, I was skeptical, but the Audix D6 is amazing. Right out of the box it was the sound I was looking for...being a bit cocky, I eq'ed it a bit, but it sounded better straight. What can I say.

Somethings are best left untouched.

Davedog Tue, 09/30/2003 - 15:48

The mic Rob Thomas is using in the video for 'Smoothe' is a 409....dont know if its on the recording or not...but it very well could be.

Floyd used em live during that Dark Side tour...on vocals...virtually no feedback as they're a very low sensitivity mic...they also exhibit almost no proximity effects.

Doublehelix Wed, 10/01/2003 - 08:29

Well, I popped the 409 in front of my Marshall cabinet last night for this punk/ska band session I have been on for the last week or so, and it did not meet my expectations. I swtiched to my trusty old MD421 U5, and voila! Instant satisfaction! The 409 was good, but seemed to be a bit harsh compared to the 421. The 421 was smoother and fuller, and clearer somehow. There was a bit of "muddiness" to the 409 compared to the 421.

Obviously, every session has different requirements, and for *this* particular session, with this guitarist/song/amp/sound, it was not the right mic.

I normally switch between (in order of preference):

1) MD421
2) SM57
3) MD441

Too bad, I really wanted it to work... :(

Doublehelix Wed, 10/08/2003 - 14:05

I picked up an Audix D6 today, and am anxious to try it out...I have more kick drum mics than I can believe...5 total! Now if I can only find a drummer that can play that many at once!!!

1) AKG D112
2) AKG D12e
3) Superlux 218B
4) Sennheiser 421

and now

5) Audix D6

Hopefully I get a chance to try it out on something "real" next weekend!

I just keep hearing such good comments about it, I *had* to get one!!!

KurtFoster Wed, 10/08/2003 - 14:45

DH,
Your gonna love the D6. I do! It doesn't require any eq to sound right! Sort of like Viagra in the form of a mic.

Man, you do have a lot of kick mics, although I have never cared for the 421 as a kick mic. Not enough low end for my tastes. But you have a D12, arghhhhhhhh, slobber [ala' Homer Simpson] .... deeeee tweeeelve eeeeeeh. :D .... The D12E is also a great announcer VO mic and the D112 works wonders of floor toms, bass and crunch guitar cabs. I have used the D112 on vocals also and it was surprisingly good in that app. I am sure you will be able to utilize all of them at some point. You can't have too many good mics.

Doublehelix Thu, 10/09/2003 - 06:29

For me, the D112 has become the first-call kick mic, but never really sounds quite "right" to me. It really takes a lot of subtle movements to find the "right spot" for it. Even then, I tend to spend some time EQ'ing to get it right.

The D12e can be really nice! I'm sure from your post Kurt if you love it or hate it!!! It is more boomy, and not as clicky as the D112, and has its uses for sure.

I really haven't used the 421 on anything that has been saved to tape yet...but have it as an option.

I am really anxious to play with the D6, and will probably get my son down in the studio tonight so we can experiment a bit before this next session.

It has been a bit frustrating for me trying to get a good kick sound. I have tried several mics, lots of different placements, lots of differing EQ treatments, and it never seems "just right" to me. It might just be a mic pre issue that is not going to be solvable without a serious investment.

anonymous Thu, 10/09/2003 - 06:43

I imagine most peoples kick sound problems may come from not just the single kick mic but when all the others get added around it. If you have room mics or overheads (which most people do) then the problem may be that the bass reverb captured by those mics just muddies everything up. Even if you cut a big wad out, the initial thump and whack may just sound wacky and the stereo imagine may be screwed due to the overheads off axis response, ect... This is likely the reason why lots of people seem to put couches and big heavy blankets around the resonant side of the kick, to help tame the ugly room sound, but what about the beater side of drum? If you are playing with your back to the wall close enough there may be a ugly slap back. Are we talking about just one mic on the resonant side or one on each? I haven’t worked with a kick with a hole in the head for a long time. What type of style of music are you talking about? Those things are important too. Eh?

Doublehelix Fri, 10/10/2003 - 06:07

I did some quick and dirty testing with my new D6 last night, and was really impressed! I tried 3 different mic positions, and this mic didn't have a bad sound in it! Pretty impressive.

I did find that a bit of EQ helped it to sound better, although Kurt likes his D6 w/o any EQ. It did sound good without any enhancement, but to my ears, sounded *great* with a bit of low end boost and a bit of a mid scoop.

I can't wait to try this puppy out next week! :)

KurtFoster Fri, 10/10/2003 - 08:22

DH,
I should probably add that the sound of my kick is pretty tweaked too. I use a dead ringer on the rear head and I have a mute that I made with a piece of a cardboard from an old 1/4" tape pancake and some (gasp) foam rubber that attaches to a micstand with a boom & gooseneck that I muffel the front head with. There is no blanket or anything else in the kick because I think it mutes the resonance of the wood. Anyway the drum sounds pretty good on its own when I start so it's a matter of just placing the mic (D6) into the drum, pointing at the left side of the rear head, angled away from the snare, close to the beater.

[ October 12, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Kurt Foster ]

Doublehelix Sat, 10/11/2003 - 07:03

Yeah, my "quick and dirty" test with the D6 was with my 10 YO son's kit, which is a cheap asian import kit (although he has nice heads on it and a nice DW pedal/beater).

The heads are not muted in any way, although that is in the plan here soon.

We'll see what the D6 can do with a "real" kit!

A Question:

Last night I went and saw the band I'll be recording next, and the drummer really rocks! :) I did notice however that his front drum head does not have a hole in it, and they are playing punk rock/ska music.

How am I going to mic this thing? My experience with micing a rock kit from the outside like this has not been the greatest. I can never seem to get the right kind of sound.

Should I ask him to cut a hole in the head before the session???

Help!

anonymous Sun, 10/12/2003 - 03:42

Originally posted by Davedog:
Take the head off...mic to taste...cover with a heavy packing blanket,preferably a Hammond cover or the like....smile at your Mystic results!

Or get yourself a resonant head, cut a nice hole in it, stick your D12 through that hole, just inside the kick and be happy!

Oh, needless to say, but make sure the kick is tuned very well.

I also have a number of kick batters, soft, hard, plastic, wood, one with a movable balance weight, it all helps a great deal.

Yo!! :D

tripnek Sun, 10/12/2003 - 05:46

I have to say that I'm very skeptical of any piece of gear hailed as any sort of "Miracle cure all". All the raves I've seen in this forum and others on the D6 have made me even more suspicious of the "hype". But after seeing Kurt’s opinion and a few others here, I finally decided to give one a try. It arrived friday so yesterday so I put it through a few tests, and I can still hardly believe my ears. I've been using Shure Beta 52s and/or Sennheiser MD421s with some success, but I've never really been satisfied. The D6 definitely put a LARGE smile on my face. In comparison tests, the Beta 52 sounds like it's in a cardboard box compared to the D6. And the 421 didn't fair much better. The beta seems to be very positional as well. If it's not in the right spot, it can sound really bad. I moved the D6 all around, and while the sound did change a bit, I just couldn't make it sound bad. I can hardly wait to try this out on a few more kicks and whatever else I can throw it on. I'll definitely be buying another one today.

Doublehelix Sun, 10/12/2003 - 06:55

Originally posted by Han:

Originally posted by Davedog:
Take the head off...mic to taste...cover with a heavy packing blanket,preferably a Hammond cover or the like....smile at your Mystic results!

Or get yourself a resonant head, cut a nice hole in it, stick your D12 through that hole, just inside the kick and be happy!

Oh, needless to say, but make sure the kick is tuned very well.

I also have a number of kick batters, soft, hard, plastic, wood, one with a movable balance weight, it all helps a great deal.

Yo!! :D This brings up an interesting point. Maybe I should keep a few kick heads around with a pre-cut hole, that way if someone shows up with a solid front head, I can easily swap the heads for the session. (22" and 20" should do it...)

DD's suggestion about just removing the head however seems a bit quicker!

I do have a few beaters around from my son's kit, and we actually have used them in the past, depending on the sound we were after.

I am just concerned about the musical style for this upcoming session, and mic'ing outside the drum when the head is intact. Like I said in my earlier post, I have never been able to get a good sound that way, although I know that jazz drums are mic'ed that way a lot.

Now that was all before I got my D6... ;)

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