Your guitar amp's FX loop should be serviced by standard, good quality instrument cables, SHIELDED. 16-gauge is kind of big for that, you'll probably find 22- or 24-gauge more suitable.
For the monitor speakers, 14-gauge should cover most passive applications. Keep the length as short as possible, UNshielded (always for speaker useage).

I use George L's for all in/outs to tube amps and pedal/effects loop interconnects. Its coaxial cable, albeit quite decent quality, and solderless crimped connections, allowing you to custom-make easily and rewire simply. Invaluable for me when I change my pedalboard arrangement more often than my underpants (twice a year hehey!).

It really does reduce all noise as a single-coil player.

Thanks. MB, you mentioned that the 14 guage would work well with passive monitors, but mine are active. Does that mean that I should use smaller conductor wire instead? Are there any drawbacks of using thicker guaged wire? I am using 18 guage shielded wire for guitar and pedal connections and 14 guage unshielded to go from my amp to cabinet. I really like the openness of the sound with the thicker wire, and I don't think I've gone overboard as these are still pretty reasonable values I think, but I do think that I prefer using thicker wires.

How about for Mic level signal? I see Mogami cabling which uses two 22 guage conductors and a spiral shield. Would there be any benefit if I used two 18 guage conductors and a shield? Just wondering, I don't think it's necessary, but I don't see any harm either. I'll probably just end up getting the Mogami mic cable with 22 guage conductors. Would this work for the ins and outs of the DI box and Reamp box as well? Obviously the parts which go from the interface to the boxes themselves and not the throughput.

I'll let MB who is more knowledgable comment on the active/passive issue. But I would append that the coax cable is the best kind of shielding available afaik, its a similar internal braiding to Canare and so its very good value for your guitar lines.

Jeemy, post: 370234 wrote: I use George L's for all in/outs to tube amps and pedal/effects loop interconnects. Its coaxial cable, albeit quite decent quality, and solderless crimped connections, allowing you to custom-make easily and rewire simply. Invaluable for me when I change my pedalboard arrangement more often than my underpants (twice a year hehey!).

It really does reduce all noise as a single-coil player.

That sounds pretty cool. I bought Canare GS-6 instrument cable which is 18 guage (which is what I wanted, I was really pretty anal about this) and braided shielding. It was a pain to unbraid all of the shield material without losing too many strands (the wire used is quite possibly thinner than human hair) I brought a cable with me to a friend's house today and we took rounds trying it out next to other cables we had on hand and we both agree that these cables sound fantastic! Really much crisper and more responsive than anything else on hand. There actually is quite a difference in sound quality due to cables for anyone reading this wondering what I'm going on about. I really didn't believe it myself until I started doing it myself.

Yeah its a major pain, and worth it. I worked out it takes about 2-3 mins to unbraid a connector and when we rewired the entire studio with Canare there were approximately 400 cable ends to do. This worked out at 18 hours or so. It was horrible allocating the time. This is why I love the George L's for guitar. You just screw the end on and it bites into the shield and you are done. Its very reliable and sounds great - I don't know the physics about a thick solid core but although the cable tends to twist, I prefer its sound to anything else. I can't tell the difference between Accusound, Mogami and Canare on a mic line, but I can damn well tell the different on a guitar line when I can feel the responsiveness.

And its not just the sound quality. I use a very complex setup (complex by virtue of being simple, if that makes any sense). Every pedal is converted to be true bypass, and I use multiple A/Bs and multiple-channel amps so I can press one button, and flip several effects. Anything digital bypasses the preamp section, and I use a guitar synth. All in all I never have more than 2 pedals running at once, but I use about 8 in total and the MIDI synth too. It means when I used to try to DI into the PA, massive hum, and there was no way around it until I tried the co-ax cable. I used to have to mic up my guitar cab, just to feed monitors so guys on the other side of the stage could hear me. Its an amazing noise reducer.

If they are ACTIVE monitors, then NO you do not want "14 ga speaker cable". You want a low level instrument /line level cable just like everything else. I assumed that you had passive speakers because you said "speaker cable". And you only use real , unshielded speaker cables when you are connecting a power amp to the speakers. That obviously does not happen in an active box. 14 gauge is pretty thick, are there manufacturers that make shielded cables that heavy?

moonbaby, post: 370243 wrote: 14 gauge is pretty thick, are there manufacturers that make shielded cables that heavy?

Not that I know of. I was just talking about using unshielded two conductor cabling because I was under the assumption that that's what I was supposed to use.

moonbaby, post: 370243 wrote: You want a low level instrument /line level cable just like everything else.

I could essentially order more of the Canare single conductor shielded instrument cable and use it for the monitors as well then?

EDIT: Actually, I just looked at the connectors on the monitor cables that I am currently using and they are TRS, so should I use the Mogami dual conductor 22 ga shielded cable instead? And buy TRS connectors I would assume. If it helps, the monitors I am using are KRK RP5's.

For dealing with the braid on Canare or other similar wire, get yourself a dental pick or a small pointed bent pick. Then you push/pull the braid several times to loosen the braid and gently pick it open. Twist it together and you're good to go.

I second the admonition of Moonbaby. Line or mic level signals get standard mic type wire. Speakers get heavy gauge wire (relatively) because of the current load it's handling.

Jeemy, post: 370242 wrote: Yeah its a major pain, and worth it. I worked out it takes about 2-3 mins to unbraid a connector and when we rewired the entire studio with Canare there were approximately 400 cable ends to do. This worked out at 18 hours or so. It was horrible allocating the time. This is why I love the George L's for guitar. You just screw the end on and it bites into the shield and you are done. Its very reliable and sounds great - I don't know the physics about a thick solid core but although the cable tends to twist, I prefer its sound to anything else. I can't tell the difference between Accusound, Mogami and Canare on a mic line, but I can damn well tell the different on a guitar line when I can feel the responsiveness.

And its not just the sound quality. I use a very complex setup (complex by virtue of being simple, if that makes any sense). Every pedal is converted to be true bypass, and I use multiple A/Bs and multiple-channel amps so I can press one button, and flip several effects. Anything digital bypasses the preamp section, and I use a guitar synth. All in all I never have more than 2 pedals running at once, but I use about 8 in total and the MIDI synth too. It means when I used to try to DI into the PA, massive hum, and there was no way around it until I tried the co-ax cable. I used to have to mic up my guitar cab, just to feed monitors so guys on the other side of the stage could hear me. Its an amazing noise reducer.

I wish it took me 2-3 minutes to unbraid the shield. It took me a few hours one night to prep and solder two cables. Maybe it gets faster with practice. I can appreciate your comment on mic lines vs guitar lines because people think I'm nuts talking about the things I hear in guitar gear, but I swear I can hear or feel a difference in the smallest things. It's probably different with mics and studio gear though, as you said, so I don't see any problem with going to a smaller wire guage for that purpose. Mogami or Canare should be fine I think. Out of curiosity, which Canare cable did you go with for your studio?

TheJackAttack, post: 370275 wrote: For dealing with the braid on Canare or other similar wire, get yourself a dental pick or a small pointed bent pick. Then you push/pull the braid several times to loosen the braid and gently pick it open. Twist it together and you're good to go.

I second the admonition of Moonbaby. Line or mic level signals get standard mic type wire. Speakers get heavy gauge wire (relatively) because of the current load it's handling.

Thanks. I'll have to try loosening up the braid before picking it next time.

I believe it. Going outside of mic/line signals though, aren't guitar pickups inductors which are current based devices? So wouldn't it make sense that in general a guitar signal could benefit from using thicker wires as well? Tonally anyway, nothing is going to break or be damaged from using too thin a wire like it would when talking about speaker wire.

Remember you don't have to pick all the way around. You just unweave a "line" straight down. Once you get the trick it goes pretty quick. The key is definitely to loosen the braid first.

How much current do you think you are sending to the guitar?!?

Guitarfreak, post: 370255 wrote: EDIT: Actually, I just looked at the connectors on the monitor cables that I am currently using and they are TRS, so should I use the Mogami dual conductor 22 ga shielded cable instead? And buy TRS connectors I would assume. If it helps, the monitors I am using are KRK RP5's.

Yes. Use the same cable as the for mic/line signals. Your powered speakers get a line level signal. You don't want to use separate housing for the L and the R. The point is to run them together so that the difference in the two signal cancels any common noise.

I'm with Jeemy for the George L's cables. If you are wiring a pedal board, the soundness of connectors is the key. The gauge of the cable doesn't matter in a 3 inch run. George L's are well shielded and the connections are dead easy. If anything ever starts crackling you can fix it in 30 seconds with a wire cutter and a screw driver. I use if for long runs as well, but the advantage is not really as big as it is in a pedal board. Eric Johnson (who claims he can tell the difference between different brands of batteries in his pedals) swears by them.

BobRogers, post: 370317 wrote: Your powered speakers get a line level signal. You don't want to use separate housing for the L and the R. The point is to run them together so that the difference in the two signal cancels any common noise.

Some slight confusion here. You need to use separate balanced (2-conductor) screened leads for the L and R cabling to the powered monitors. Within each cable, the + and - conductors pick up the same interference, and this common-mode noise is attenuated by the action of the differential input of the monitor.

Yes, that's more than slightly confusing, sorry. I meant the L and R in XLR not the left and right speakers.

TheJackAttack, post: 370316 wrote: Remember you don't have to pick all the way around. You just unweave a "line" straight down. Once you get the trick it goes pretty quick. The key is definitely to loosen the braid first.

How much current do you think you are sending to the guitar?!?

ahh, haha, I've been undoing the entire braid of about 3/4" to an inch of cabling haha, what a waste of time. I would assume that you mean "from" the guitar and not "to" but I know it's dependant on whatever the guitar is plugged into. The amount of current produced by the pickup is relative to the pickup itself, the guitar wiring, and any other loads that it is connected to. The pickup can only produce a signal relative to the load it is producing into. Other than that basic understanding, I really have no idea what typical current ranges are.

In the electrical field I have used shielded cables up to 10 AWG, but they are very expensive
For electrical signals generally, bigger is better, but there is an extreme point where it becomes too big
The amount of strands in each wire (Which can vary), will make a big difference
On twisted pairs, the tighter the twist the lower the noise

The basic idea here is that if the current/voltage is small (line, mic, instrument level) than it is susceptible to external electrical interference, so shielding is far more important than the gauge/thickness of the wire. If the current/voltage is high (after a power amp) then it will be relatively unaffected by outside sources, but the guage/size of the wire is more important in allowing the flow of that much current.

BobRogers, post: 372562 wrote: The basic idea here is that if the current/voltage is small (line, mic, instrument level) than it is susceptible to external electrical interference, so shielding is far more important than the gauge/thickness of the wire. If the current/voltage is high (after a power amp) then it will be relatively unaffected by outside sources, but the guage/size of the wire is more important in allowing the flow of that much current.

Why are you saying current/voltage is small or high?
as if they relate as both are higher or lower? If you raise voltage which is just a "potential", it lowers the current. They don't relate in that way. It's the whole reason commercial business uses 277v lighting opposed to 120v. At the higher voltage it takes less current to provide the same power, so it's cheaper $$ But shielded cable will provide more protection from frequency bleeds, eddy currents etc..
Power amps are affected by the same problems, you just can't hear it as easily. Frequency interference doesn't care what voltage you are at, although eddy currents do change with the voltage & current levels.
In electronics most shields are doing nothing more than reversing phase to cancel out noise, then taken to ground. In some applications it's necessary to actually have a "blind" wire. One end of the shield is left disconnected, while the other is connected.
The size of wire is very important for max current flow that is correct, but the insulation is very important also. If you take a smaller gauge wire to it's current limits it will start to over heat and can break down the insulation and big problems start from there. If you are not anywhere near the current limit of a particular gauge of wire and the insulation is rated to a high enough temperature, you will reduce any problems.
The Shielding, Gauge, Insulation, Twist Ratio if applicable all have a direct affect on problems. Whether they are balanced or not is certainly important too.
And oh yes, the more strands in a wire is better. Current flows on the surface of wires NOT the center.

Shielding IS more important than gauge in this application, that much is very true. But too small of a gauge or lousy cheap insulation etc. will cause problems too.

BobRogers, post: 370322 wrote: Yes, that's more than slightly confusing, sorry. I meant the L and R in XLR not the left and right speakers.

Bit of a swerve, but I thought this would be interesting:

The L and R in XLR don't refer to the conductors in the cable or pins in the connector. "X" was a series of connectors made by Cannon, "L" indicates the locking version and "R" stands for the resilient polychloroprene insulating material the female part used. Technically, what we use today are really copies of Cannon's XLP connector with the hard plastic insulating material, but the R designation stuck in spite of the inaccuracy.

[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.soundfir…"]XLR History[/]="http://www.soundfir…"]XLR History[/]

treidm, post: 372570 wrote: Current flows on the surface of wires NOT the center.

So, what exactly is the skin depth of copper at 20kHz?

treidm, post: 372570 wrote: Why are you saying current/voltage is small or high? as if they relate as both are higher or lower? If you raise voltage which is just a "potential", it lowers the current....

We are talking about wire here. It should be treated as a resistive circuit - not a constant power device. So within the wire we can use Ohm's law: V=IR. Current and voltage are proportional. No?

Yes in one way they are Bob, but if voltage is increased, the current will be unchanged at the transformer, so is lower proportionally to the voltage. The CONSTANT in the Ohm's law formula will be the voltage at this point. What you stated was V=IR (Volts=Current x Resistance), or in this case more applicable would be I=V/R (Current=Voltage/Resistance).
So in a sense it is proportional to the volts from a point to point on a conductor, but at the same time it is INVERSELY proportional to the resistance between them.

Also remember you are stating ohm's law that applies to DC (Direct Current) circuits. There is an adjusted ohm's law for AC (Alternating Current) circuits, which uses "impedance" among other differences.

But none of this splitting of hairs really matters, the real problem is frequency interference, eddy currents etc...

The VERY FIRST thing that is engineered in electrical circuit wiring is the SIZE of the conductors. Nothing else matters if the conductors are too small.
BUT once you have the minimum size covered, then of course it's importance is greatly reduced.
After that parameter is solved, the protection from outside interference and the properties of the insulation are of more importance (Impedance matters)
Most equipment signals runs at low current, so really large conductors are not needed, unless long runs are used and you need to combat voltage drop.
Some are high impedance, some are low impedance.
Some balanced, some unbalanced.

....Reid

bouldersound, post: 372574 wrote: So, what exactly is the skin depth of copper at 20kHz?

Probably should have left that one out, because at 60Hz, with copper as the conductor, it's about 5/16" or so skin depth.
I deal in work with much larger conductors, but with small conductors, the depth would go to it's core, but still affects the resistance.
I didn't know the 20kHz depth, but looked it up for you.

Quotes as follows:

The skin depth of copper at 20kHz is about 0.47mm, and for the resistance of the wire at 20kHz to be double the d.c. value the radius must be 1.4mm. (This applies to solid core wires, and for lower radius wires the skin depth gives a lower relative increase in resistance, and so is less significant.) The d.c. resistance per metre is about 0.0028 ohms, so the 20kHz resistance is 0.0056 ohms, half of this contributed by the skin effect.
To take an extreme example, suppose 10 metres of this wire is used in a speaker cable to drive a speaker with impedance as low as 2 ohms at 20kHz ( fortunately very rare ). The cable will have two conductors giving total added skin effect resistance of 0.056 ohms. In series with the 2 ohm speaker resistance this gives attenuation by a factor 0.97, i.e. -0.24 dB. It has been claimed that response changes around 0.2dB are just audible in direct comparison at lower frequencies, but a variation of 2dB or more may be needed at 20kHz, and so 0.24dB is of no significance. (Few speakers are flat to within even 3dB up to this frequency.) For most speakers with impedance well above 2 ohms at 20kHz, and using cable lengths much less than 10 metres, even 1mm diameter is usually more than adequate as regards added skin depth resistance, though the d.c. resistance may be a little excessive for long cables, being around 0.04 ohms per metre total for the two conductors.

So, it is negligible at audio frequencies.
But does have an effect.

....Reid