And of course, there is video.

So to get back to the other threads that I posted in the past. Yes the ones complaining that AVID was and is ripping off it's customers by forcing them to buy HD units, knowing full well that they would become obsolete. Well. Thousands of dollars has now been reduced to $629us for FULL ProTools 9. Yeah. Sorry guys. We know you bought our hardware in trust.

I don't want to bash them. I really think this is a GREAT move. Yes, I am very excited about this. But, that thing with the HD "blowout" was a bit low.

Pro Tools 9

Well, what do you know! How could this be possible?

Lets get this right...

I can now buy Pro Tools 9 for $600.00 ( that will work exactly as the HD systems without the tag along hardware) and access it via RME , Lavry, Lynx etc and it will work? It will join the rest of the world?

If so, I will now buy Pro Tools and enjoy as I do Sequoia, Sonar and Reaper. Great news that I didn't expect :rolleyes:. Can you imagine just paying all that cash over the last 2 years for an HD system and hearing this! ROTF. Now its going to get interesting. DAW wars begins!

audiokid

You are correct sir. I was second guessing myself but it is absolutely what you think it is. Full ProTools. NOT LE or M-Powered. Available for all interfaces. You will like PT9 if it is at all like PT8, which from what I hear it basically is the same without the hardware requirement. There are some limitations with Plugins of course. ONLY native plugins and no [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.avid.com…"]HEAT[/]="http://www.avid.com…"]HEAT[/] plugin. Hopefully, dropping the hardware dependancy will eliminate many of the problems they were having with ProTools 8(none of which I personally experienced).

Pro Tools 9

Right on I say!

I killed my Pro Tools Ripoff Blog last week because I felt I was creating resentment with friends and members here. It circulated around the planet, we all now no it was spot on almost to the day.

I still am in shock but it was pretty obvious they were going to dive if they didn't make this move so timely. Most of you who are stuck with this dated hardware have no idea how you've been led ( ya you do, no you don't) but you also paved the way for Avid to build a really incredible software.So, a big thank you to the 100 thousand supporters.
So this is great news. I think I will wait for Pro Tools 10 before I will actually trust this. I'm expecting bugs but who knows, if it works great, I'm in soon.

The video is still BS though, claiming they are the best sounding system. That's far from the truth but I guess it depending what side of the wall you are sitting on. PT is the most popular and most supported but not the best sounding. The configuration of your system and skills would be more accurate IMO.

I definitely don't need 180 plug-ins. What a quagmire that is , but there are some good ones for sure. Hybrid is the way "I go" and a big cheers for those hardware companies building the real stuff that see it coming. Others smothered from this can now bloom. This next decade is going to be awesome. I believe we are heading towards a good place in pro audio now. It feels like the "Wall" just came down and Pink Floyd in singing.

So I have Sequoia 11 that is only software and costs $3000 USD. Pro Tools 9 is $600 USD. This should be interesting indeed!

hmm, and then there is Reaper for 50 bucks that still blows my mind. Where is everyone?
:confused:

I think we should rename that title Hue. Its just too quite around here. Wait until all the women find out lol.

I would be willing to relearn PT if I can use my own hardware. I bailed on PT when I left the Corps and the DoD wasn't buying my studio rig. That was also the last time I worked on a Mac but that is another story entirely. I'll have to check it out when I finish up the five concerts I have to produce.

This is great news for me. I've been nursing my 002R along for a while (6-7? years). This will allow me to upgrade to a better interface and run Samplitude as well as PT. The one big complaint - still 32 bit (64 bit machine compatible). No doubt that means an upgrade down the road and another chunk of change.

Before everybody gets all aroused and jumps for joy:

This is not yet playing in the same league like Sequoia, Nuendo or even their own HW based Alsihad...
Look at its latency compensation, ..yaawwwn, .......... Track count Audio/Midi... snore............ max I/Os........... still only RTAS and audio suite plugins usable...sucks

I have edited this, since the specs for PT9 have changed. To what exactly, I could not find on their site,yet..Maybe a little later...

No doubt you are right for people using HD systems. A step forward, but not a huge one. For LE users (or anyone at weekend warrior equipment level where high track counts and max I/Os are not really an issue) this creates a lot of flexibility.

Still, have a look at the costs for RTAS plugins compared to VST versions. Those are usually over a third more expensive..
What is the actual latency compensation, now? It used to be about 4000 samples. If it hasn't improved, you don't get anywhere with that...
From what I've seen on the video, it is still at ~ 4k.

Anyway, the new version 9 is step forward for them. I'll give them that...
Competitors need to watch out....

Ahhh, just found it.. http://www.avid.com/us/products/family/Pro-Tools/compare

Still not impressed....

And if it isn't 64bit based programming then I'm not interested at all. That is ridiculous since all current machines are 64bit and to properly utilize larger ram counts the programming should be 64bit as well.

There is a lot of speculation that they went 32 bit to get it out in time for AES. The only reason I'd jump on the purchase right now is if I wanted to get a new interface in this tax year. Have to take a look and crunch some numbers. Otherwise I think I'll wait for 64 bit.

They are preparing :tongue: the HD crowd for the impact lol. Do you think? :cool: Its the beginning of the end of HD

drip by drip.

Sell Sell Sell hehe

Or, another clever injection to hook more people. Its very clever marketing for sure. Good eye on this Rainer.

They shouldn't have to jump to get to AES. 64 bit has been the way of computers Apple or Windows for several years. If AVID didn't drag their collective knuckles beside their collective heels they might have realized that. 64 bit compatible doesn't count for crap when it comes to computer resources. As to track counts, that doesn't bother me so much. As a classical location engineer I would be appalled if I maxed out 96 sticks. Sheesh, if I get the microphones right I don't even have to edit a mix anymore really. I think I'll just stick with Audition3 and learning Reaper.

OT... Tell Apple to finally release a 64-bit QuickTime version.... Those are sound asleep or simply after annoying most PC users doing audio to picture work ...

Apple is also in their own little fairy land. It's just they make a better overall product than Digi-Avid. Apple seems to really want to stay firmly planted in a pro-sumer category hence things like 32bit Quicktime.

I used to be so Apple, as I was so Pro Tools. I was superior being one of the most pro studios in the North of British Columbia.

Those two platforms cost a lot of extra money but I felt it was worth it. You get what you pay for right?
It also was simple to setup. Pay the 50 grand ( by the time you had 4 10,000 RPM cheeta HD, Burners, scsi accel cards, farms, HD monitors and the latest Mac's. It was basically a turn key system, you think? . But I had no idea what the interface was really about and how it was always one step behind. . All I knew and cared about is that I needed it to make it all work, and it worked. All these incredible plug-ins WOW! were the best ever, but wait... it always sound rash but I refused to believe this. I just sold all my analog gear. This was 1999.
Then I started RO and began the DAW generation. We started building forums here and more and more people came to see what all the buzz was about. The DUC was bias and RO was everyone else. Some days we had 1000 members sign up! We watched the big studios demise as we stood firm that Pro Tools was king and all the big studios would die in the next 5 years . We talked more and more, learning how to do it and then fix the raspy mess that we refused to believe was our Pro Tools systems. More and more people bought into it.
We all felt confident we've made the right decision. Pro Tools is the best, look how much it costs compared to PC junk! A few years later I was invited to Bryan Adams stellar The Warehouse Studios. I sat [[url=http://[/URL]="http://warehousestu…"]here[/]="http://warehousestu…"]here[/] and talked to an engineer that only used Pro Tools for editing. We talked a lot about the business, recording and plug-ins. When I returned home and started listening to my pro tools system I began re thinking it all.

I soon realized I was way off course and had invested at least $25,000 too much in wasted Pro Tools Hardware money. That was in 2002. I should have been investing in preamps and mics and bought a custom built PC and one of those $500 DAW systems for certain.

I think Mac is way over priced and PC's are returning in a big way. I definitely think Pro Tools dependent hardware systems are done long ago and those bought into it today are the sad tag followers. The writing is on the wall. There is just too much out there being made that isn't over inflated corporate shareholder. These smaller boutique companies are making the real stuff that is worth investing in. Pro Tools HD is a big topic filled with a lot of emotion, fear and big investment. You'll never get an unbiased answer from those who have invested big buck in it. That's for certain.

I'm rambling... but I'm also excited because I definitely love the software.

The Mac has been way overpriced for years now, the 999$ Macbook is as powerful as a 600-700$ PC.
Not to talk about the Mac Pro which is REDONCULESSLY overpriced.

Here in Iceland there has been an explosion in Mac sales, what I've seen is not people that are "pro-sumers" but rather people that don't know jackshit about computers, and... well... girls.... Macs just look really good.
The Ipod was probably the thing that resurrected Apple Computers for the average consumer.

Pro users are using the PC platform more and more, and the people I've talked to don't seem to only think about ProTools as they did 5-7 yrs ago when I first started thinking about recording.

Don't get me wrong. I am neither a fan or a hater even if I choose something different. Apple makes a good product for what it is. I do think marketing/fad keeps the prices quite high on them though.

Well avid finally woke up and smelled the coffee. Personally, I'm decaffeinated. But I like the smell of this ProTools 9. Still a little sketchy on what can be accomplished with this new version. Obviously, it appears that RTAS is the only real option unless you get a microprocessor and DSP type helper card to run TDM. And all that hype about heat which may actually not be available without their hardware yet again? And of course Andrew Shepps is quoted saying " I still mix on my vintage Neve...." Yeah, of course, who wouldn't? Which also means he's recording through it as well. And while some folks might like that " Proprietary" sound of the Avid Digidesign equipment, which I doubt most people will be drawn to. I have been happier with the sound of my M-Audio Transit than I have my Digidesign M-Box 2 with its proprietary blah blah input crap. Another reason why my friend doesn't use any of his microphone preamps in his C-24. So I guess AVID will still make some groovy remote control surfaces and finally working out the bugs in their software so that it runs on virtually anything. I will now consider a purchase and/or upgrade to ProTools 9 since they are finally starting to make some sense. It's more for the standardization of interchangeability between studios that makes the most sense to me. I mean most of us only have the choice of 2 grades of gasoline with the exception of Sunoco. With AVID's ability to now allow us to choose our equipment and/or interface that best suits OUR purposes. Now they're making some sense. And I'm sure someone will make it possible for us to not have to deal with that ridiculous iLock gizmo since I already have enough items in my USB sockets and can't use hubs. Geez, it's always somethin'. But since I spent this amount of money on other software's, I'm just going to wait to see what their upgrade cost is from version 7.0. Of course this may also inspire a lot of people to upgrade their laptops and notice in the video all laptops were Apple's. Not sure why that is since Apple & PCs are using nearly identical chipsets? So today, an Apple is just a PC running OS X and I have plenty of friends running OS X running on DELL netbooks through HackinTosh. So maybe there is a new PC in my future running OS X? And so which is better? The PC or Macintosh version of ProTools 9?? With or without a software emulator??

I still bet on Vegas
Mx. Remy Ann David

Lots of good points here today. This had to be inevitable. A much appreciated breath of fresh air. The push has to be cause of a desire to increase industrywide market share, curbing the PT crack, and an answer to the general economic woes everyone is feeling. I truly believe that Pro Tools is the most usable and powerfull editing tool available, at all price points. This will open up their market to pull in the Logic/Cubase/Garage Band users who never got into PT cause they perceived that they couldn't afford it. That in turn could promote further business for better equiped studios because of file compatibility. The companies that would immediately benefit from this are RME, Lynx, Apogee, etc. This is a gold mine for them. Bad news for Steinberg, Presonus etc who have DAW software and Hardware. Might punch a whole in the ROI for all the R&D.

I agree on the Control Surface idea too. No wonder they absorbed Euphonix. It makes perfect sense. I'm confident we'll be seeing new, low price products in that field as well.

The only caveat is that Avid (Digidesign) has been implementing a LOT of sweeping changes in the past 12 months. That implies a LOT of financial investment (debt?) which could make it shaky if things don't take off like they need it to. Only they know how true this is, of course.

Overall, I have good gut feelings over this news.

Appleseed Studios
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.applesee…"]Appleseed Studios[/]="http://www.applesee…"]Appleseed Studios[/]

Appleseed, post: 356250 wrote: Lots of good points here today. This had to be inevitable. A much appreciated breath of fresh air. The push has to be cause of a desire to increase industrywide market share, curbing the PT crack, and an answer to the general economic woes everyone is feeling. I truly believe that Pro Tools is the most usable and powerfull editing tool available, at all price points. This will open up their market to pull in the Logic/Cubase/Garage Band users who never got into PT cause they perceived that they couldn't afford it. That in turn could promote further business for better equiped studios because of file compatibility. The companies that would immediately benefit from this are RME, Lynx, Apogee, etc. This is a gold mine for them. Bad news for Steinberg, Presonus etc who have DAW software and Hardware. Might punch a whole in the ROI for all the R&D.

I agree on the Control Surface idea too. No wonder they absorbed Euphonix. It makes perfect sense. I'm confident we'll be seeing new, low price products in that field as well.

The only caveat is that Avid (Digidesign) has been implementing a LOT of sweeping changes in the past 12 months. That implies a LOT of financial investment (debt?) which could make it shaky if things don't take off like they need it to. Only they know how true this is, of course.

Overall, I have good gut feelings over this news.

Appleseed Studios
[[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.applesee…"]Appleseed Studios[/]="http://www.applesee…"]Appleseed Studios[/]

Spot on on all points!

Big K, post: 356219 wrote: Still, have a look at the costs for RTAS plugins compared to VST versions. Those are usually over a third more expensive..
What is the actual latency compensation, now? It used to be about 4000 samples. If it hasn't improved, you don't get anywhere with that...
From what I've seen on the video, it is still at ~ 4k.

Anyway, the new version 9 is step forward for them. I'll give them that...
Competitors need to watch out....

Ahhh, just found it.. [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.avid.com…"]Avid | Pro Tools[/]="http://www.avid.com…"]Avid | Pro Tools[/]

Still not impressed....

With all due respect, when was the last time an audio studio needed more than 32 simultaneous inputs or more than 96 audio channels? I respect your opinion and I know that many DAWs are "Unlimited" in this respect but few computers are capable of much more than that anyway.

This is a HUGE step for AVID and I applaud them for finally listening to their customer base. They do NEED to bring down the price of those HD units. They are ridiculously over priced. If they come out with something new and more powerful, great. They can charge a premium for the card with 9-1GHz dsp chips but the old units are not worth the money. They must realize that the value of those old HD cards dropped dramatically as soon as they released this. Also, it seems apparent that an new HD card IS on it's way making the old cards even more obsolete.

yup, and it just keep going on and on. Kind of makes me sick thinking about it all. But we're not buying into it "fully" cause we know better! (smile) with sarcasm and a bow.

Personally, 16 channels is all I'll ever need. I never run more than 32 tracks these days. Not like I used to though... . 48 or more until I figured out HOW IMPORTANT SPACE IS! LOL hehe
I think its a good system for the studios that don't need all the digi crap ( sorry about that).

what a great thread.

32 inputs is really not that many, but I would have a hard time to use up 100 tracks.
There is a multitude of other studios that need dozens of inputs more. And there are composers, with whom I had a fight, lately, about their track count, because they nastily complaint about not being able to use over 500 Audio & Midi tracks in Nuendo 4 ( well they actually can when copy -pasting the tracks to the bottom).
They fought to the naked bones for that. I finally gave in, ... For me that is bad craftmanship and would be utterly confusing...
But is shows that there is demand for that and it is actually being used...

Btw, last time I tried to reach the track limit when testing a new i7 Pc on Win 7 64-bit and 12 GB RAM I got bored and stopped at about 270 Tracks of playback and 30 Tracks of recording, not to forget 6 large VSTi instruments loaded and playing, simultaniously. With RAIDed drives..no problem..

I ad:
Film mixing stages run 500 plus tracks , but mostly off more then on system or machine...Think surround!
Classic philharmonic recordings need maany mics and inputs..

Cinematic productions are the focal point for TDM systems. That's what ProTools excels in.

I am NOT a ProTools fanboy. Let's get that out straight away. I've been bashing them here for a while. I think that ProTools 9 is clearly marketed toward Project Studios and smaller "pro" studios. HD/TDM will continue to be the Flagship. They are just opening it up a bit for those of us who have been waiting for them to finally meet the norm in Digital Audio Workstations. It's been a long wait.

Will Apple follow? I highly doubt it. They have a market all their own and would very likely lose their loyal user base due to incompatibility issues. Sure they would gain some defectors for a time but I bet those defectors would soon be back to windows. The thing that Apple has going for them is a lack of incompatible hardware issues. You buy a Mac and it works. Do they crash? Yes. Do they break? Yes. They have their problems but generally they look good and they work well.

Figured I might as well start this puppy up again. We'll use it as a reference down the path for a told you so again..

There is no doubt in my mind PT 9 will sloughter the DAW industry for the short term. I predict PT 10 is when it becomes software almost entirely / possibly buying another few key hardware companies in their term to keep its grip on things.
Sadly, a lot of people that bought into HD because they had no choice have definitely paid the price. PT 9 is the next generation and their just playing it cool as they fade that out and super i7, i9 etc PC slide in. The industry is finding a middle ground all because of these new super PC and soon to be, better SSD, and its only going to get more powerful. Why will we need HD.
I also wouldn't buy a mac for anything now. You get way more for your money with a custom build PC. I bought a mac because PT didn't run on a PC worth a damn. Those days are over. Mac is turning into a mobile company and Win7 64 bit is killer.

Anyway, this is pretty interesting. You can sence the excitment and assurance they are going this way and beyond. And , IMO, telling me that HD is still here but...

PC's running 64 bit and 32 + gig of ram just made Avid more money from a little box. This is going to be pretty interesting watching Sonar and Cubase struggle now , or do they have something up their path?

PT to me have the best software, Sonar is pretty powerful but damn ugly and Cubase not much better so if it comes down to one of 4 I can think of, I'd take PT 9 over them all. With the exception of my beloved Sequoia or I'm assuming Nuendo or possibly logic. And then there's the extremely affordable StudioLive 24.4.2 with capture... as well. Lots of great options still... hmmm interesting next year.

I don't think HD is totally dead yet. Film is becoming a bigger and bigger market. More independent film companies are starting all over the place and they will want the power of at least the Complete Production Tool Kit. This adds an additional $2000 to their PT 9 rig. Still less expensive than HD or HD Native. That being said, I do believe HD as we know it will go away. Computer system tech is expanding far faster than Avid hardware specs and so yes, our computers will be able to handle what HD does now.

I build my PCs too. Never had a problem with them getting the job done. I am a huge fan of Apple though. Rock solid and simply the coolest technology mankind has ever designed. I can't live without my iPod Touch, and not just because of music. I actually use it as a remote for PT now. I will also be buying an iPad when they add a few more features to the next gen. (Apple really needs to make a rack mounted Mac Pro. That would be tempting)

I expect we will be seeing a lot more HD rigs selling on ebay very soon as studios try to get out while they still can; and get a respectable price in the used market. Push them toward film guys and you'll be OK.

My guess is that in the long run this will work out well for Avid and PT users. It's a blow to anyone who bought into an HD system in the past year, but in terms of Avid's entire customer base that's not huge. They can make efforts to placate them and keep them in the fold. The owner of the studio where my daughter worked this summer was pretty positive. But he's had his HD system for a while and it has paid for itself. He likes tracking and mixing in PT (though he does some of his classical work in Samplitude), so the move just means more hardware options for the future.

The move is perfect for people like me. I've been nursing along a six-year-old 002R LE system. There is no way I can justify an HD system in a project studio, and I didn't want to get an 003 - which I consider a marginal upgrade. PT 9 allows me to get a better interface and keep using PT, but run other DAWs in parallel. It solves Avid's problem of the huge gap between their LE and HD systems.

The hardware end is very interesting. I think you are right that the big jump in power of 64 bit native systems changes the game. But the continued buzz around the UAD cards makes me wonder if there isn't a bigger market out there waiting. Maybe the attempt to integrate hardware and software left Avid bloated and slow. They might be better off letting the two divisions be independent.

wow, this is big news. It seemed like the whole DAW market has been stale for many years. This is a big jump in the right direction before it was too late.

I have, still, no info on the latency compensation, yet.....
You go nowhere with 4.ooo samples .. which it hardly reaches...
Just insert Waves Z-noise and watch your tracks synch fall apart...
Performance is shaky and even with PT and Wave plugs it gets out of synch....
Also there seems no way to switch off input monitoring with 3rd party hardware.
So, there is no way to use, e.g., RME's TotalMix for 0 latency monitoring, either.

Anyway, those videos I have seen present Alsihad as the ultimate DAW with the most amazing features...
Yes, those features are so old on my DAW that I have already forgotten their existence...
It is bordering on impudence against other professional DAWs which have most of those super Native-PT features for ages, already....
I am not even on it, yet, ... I wonder what else I would find out if I really wanted to check it out, more thoroughly...

So, not bad for a PT product, but absolutely hyped-up beyond good reason ...

The hype is because they've neglected to provide those missing pieces. That is the news. The open hardware interfacing, increased track count, etc. I agree these are things that became standard on everyone elses stuff and PT is behind on those things. However, even with those things missing, PT was #1. The implication is that now they can steamroll over the market and completely own it. The magnitude of this change will be seen as Avid's competition responds, and how Hardware mfg's take advantage. Watch their marketing campaigns. Will they mention PT in their ads? I bet they will. It's like all these car commercials that talk about how much faster, cheaper, more fuel efficient their car is compared to a BMW. Why do they do that? Because they know who the standard of excellence is in their market. I predict the same will happen here.

Interesting mention on the input monitoring. I need to dig into that. I have a RME Fireface 800 that I love and I don't want to be running into any snags.

Avid is unlikely to steamroll anyone at this point. Too many companies also have loyal followers/users and better feature sets than even the new PT. I agree with those that state movie sound stages will be the heart of PT, but those businesses don't buy new Avid products every month to keep Avid awash in cash. Some of those studios are running 10 year old HD systems just fine.

Avid has at least one other big advantage. From what I can see, there are more courses, videos, books, educational materials for PT than for all other DAWs combined. So that makes it a good one to start on.

I agree with John. I don't think there will be a steamroll. Other DAWs have various technical advantages. But more importantly, to me workflow is the biggest factor in choosing a DAW. That's a very personal thing and not everyone likes PT best.

You make some good points. For myself, I used Cubase for years and made the switch to PT. Best thing I ever did. From a workflow standpoint it made a big difference. It's like I didn't realize how much easier life could be until I switched. If PT will steal anyone, they are going to have to convince them that this is the way. Maybe some vouchers to courses or something.

The steamroller has not been build, yet, that could make me buy Alsihad, in which disguise ever...lol...
I already have flat feet...

Poohtools has hyped around with any and all of their releases (and if it was a new powercord..) since they stopped throwing drum computer software together...
The cash I spent on their sound tool sheit around 1992 that never worked..AT ALL, has made me suspicious and also the ever so over-excited sales guys who told me
everytime after a new version that the predecessor of the new shroud tools was all bad and unreliable, but the new version (and hardware for a sack of cash going with it) would be heavenly fulfilment.

I love this place.

Having used Sonar for a month or two now I have to say, there are a ton of features there that ProTools doesn't have and probably won't at the non HD level. Still, I like using ProTools. I like the workflow and as much as I can easily switch to using Samplitude or Cubase, If I only had one choice it would probably be.....well Samplitude but that's besides the point. ProTools really is nice to work with and the majority of the plugins are equally nice. ELEVEN is a great amp sim. I would take it over Guitar Rig any day. Dverb is a great sounding reverb considering it's stock with PT. I can't say there is an equal Stock verb from another company......other than maybe Variverb in Samplitude Pro.