Tracktion has integrated support for FLAC files, which I use sometimes. I have also succesfully used the Monkeys Audio lossless codec (.ape files): http://www.monkeysaudio.com/

IIRs wrote: Tracktion has integrated support for FLAC files, which I use sometimes. I have also succesfully used the Monkeys Audio lossless codec (.ape files): http://www.monkeysaudio.com/

I tried FLAC and did not like it. I could easily pick it apart from the original. Will try Monkeys Audio. Thanks.

FLAC....really? I use that a fair bit. Kristal is Wav, Flac or Ogg. Since I want to stick 50mins of recs into a flash drive with plenty of other stuff on it, I use Flac.
Can't say I had anything to compare it to, though opening Flac files, wow...foobar has no troubles but foobar is no use. VLC can play it...but not save it as a separate stream. Nothing I have can open it, except Kristal.

J_Carlo wrote:
I tried FLAC and did not like it. I could easily pick it apart from the original. Will try Monkeys Audio. Thanks.

That was a bug if so. Lossless means there is NO difference.

I just tried a test, which I encourage you to try yourself: I imported a 16 bit wav file into Tracktion, then exported it again as a 16 bit flac file with no other changes. I reimported that flac file to another track, flipped the phase and hit play... the two tracks cancelled out to total silence.

Codemonkey wrote: VLC can play it...but not save it as a separate stream. Nothing I have can open it, except Kristal.

There's a winamp plug available for flac files...

Rar compression is also suprisingly good at squashing down wav file sizes. But the files can't be played directly of course, they need extracting first.

I couldn't care much less for winamp, it's no use to me. Foobar2000 can play them, it's opening them to edit/mix with that's the problem. Nothing except Kristal can read them AND save them as wavs.

Oh, and the Rar idea...that's GENIUS. I'll be trying that for sure.

Codemonkey wrote: Nothing except Kristal can read them AND save them as wavs..

Tracktion?

I don't have that.
Grammatical screw up on my part, sorry.

"Nothing I have" is what I meant to say.

How good does the rar compression get? Obviously it depends but on the whole?

Its free to try, why not give it a go?

AFAIR its nearly as good as the dedicated audio codecs like flac or ape, with the added advantage that you can archive a whole project's worth of audio files into a single .rar file. (Tracktion lets you do the same thing but with flac compression instead via Tracktion Archive files.)

In this world of mega-sized hard drives (just bought a WD 500GB for $99 yesterday), 5Mbps Internet Connections, 8 gig thumb drives for $39, and 160GB iPods, why are we still worried about various compression formats.

My beef isn't with lossy or lossless compression. It's with their universality or lack thereof.

I'll be damned if I'm installing WinAmp, Foobar, iTunes, MonkeyPoo or whatever on my audio workstation. My audio machine has Audio Programs (Sequoia, Reason, FL, Garritan, Finale, and Plug-ins) only. Many of these software packages require you to use resources on your computer even when they're not officially in use.

Not only that, when someone sends me a FLAC file to work with, I just scratch my head and ask, "Would it have been too hard to send me a friggin WAV file? Afterall, I have over 2 Terabytes of storage left on my FTP server!"

I agree, the time it takes to mess with this is waisted time being that hard drives are so cheap now. And in 5 years you'll probably have to redo everything again so you can play them.

Thing is, my flash drive is only 1GB and if I did get an 4GB one I'd partition it, install Ubuntu on 3GB worth, and fill the rest with crap.
Except that I think Ubuntu won't transfer well if you install it using an Intel and load on an Athlon.
XP fails totally, Ubuntu just goes to command prompt.

Didn't know Traction was free (even to try). Might do it later, once I escape some lectures.

Good about RAR, I actually have a copy of the program on my flash, installed to it (minus the shell) and I can use it on any PC. Thus...rar it is.

IIRs wrote: [quote=J_Carlo]
I tried FLAC and did not like it. I could easily pick it apart from the original. Will try Monkeys Audio. Thanks.

That was a bug if so. Lossless means there is NO difference.

I just tried a test, which I encourage you to try yourself: I imported a 16 bit wav file into Tracktion, then exported it again as a 16 bit flac file with no other changes. I reimported that flac file to another track, flipped the phase and hit play... the two tracks cancelled out to total silence.

Tried the nulling test , did WaveLab's file comparer and full analysis. Best of all , did double blind tests with a friend who is also interested in the subject. 100% of the time we could tell the reconstucted files form the source. Only exception was WavPack.

Audible silence (as in you hear nothing) or actual zero samples?

Codemonkey wrote: Audible silence (as in you hear nothing) or actual zero samples?

That is one of the problems with nulling tests. You will not get a total null even with the same file. What you will get is audible silence at a reasonable spl level.

Well...you should if it's the same exact file.

However, I've not seen this be the case with lossless compression versus uncompressed.

Codemonkey wrote: Audible silence (as in you hear nothing) or actual zero samples?

That is one of the problems with nulling tests. You will not get a total null even with the same file. What you will get is audible silence at a reasonable spl level.

Codemonkey wrote:
Didn't know Traction was free (even to try). Might do it later, once I escape some lectures.

I was talking about winRAR, sorry. Tracktion has a demo version of course.

J_Carlo wrote: [quote=Codemonkey]Audible silence (as in you hear nothing) or actual zero samples?

That is one of the problems with nulling tests. You will not get a total null even with the same file. What you will get is audible silence at a reasonable spl level.

I get a total null when subtracting a wav file from a flac'ed version of the same. (According to Tracktion's own meters, Inspector XL and the SSL X-ISM bit meter.)

Any other result is a bug.

Cucco wrote: Well...you should if it's the same exact file.

However, I've not seen this be the case with lossless compression versus uncompressed.

Then there was something wrong, either with the test or with the compression. Lossless means you get back exactly the same numbers you put in, just like ZIP or RAR compression.

I work this way with my guitarist who lives a bit out of my way.

First, I'll lay down comps of a song I'm working on then bounce the tracks to AAC 256 Kbps files and post them up via FTP for HTTP download. He downloads the files and imports them into his DAW and writes his parts. Then he bounces the pure guitar tracks back to AAC and I download them. When every thing begins to solidify I swap out the butter for cream and download Apple Lossless versions of the files. A quick swap in the DAW and the hi-res files have replaced the AACs. It's a lot like working with video and offline editing.

Very quick and a great way to work with remote musicians. Also saves hard drive space until you really need it.

I archive with Monkey.
There's a free filter available for Adobe Audition that lets me batch-compresses 32-bit float files.

zemlin wrote: I archive with Monkey.
There's a free filter available for Adobe Audition that lets me batch-compresses 32-bit float files.

Archiving is another great use of lossless compression. The format I use is a 2:1 compression which helps the files fit on archive grade dual layer DVDs. They're not cheap and using half as many is a nice bonus.

Of course, when archiving make sure your files are in a format you'll be able to read in 10+ years. Open source formats are the best bet.