Has anyone tried the new Behringer tube pre, i'm looking at getting a really cheap tube pre and this one is ridiculously cheap. Is there a reason for the cheap price of $79 CDN, yet does it still get the job done sounding good? Ponder that.
Extreme
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Somewhere else around here I just posted a more detailed argumen
Somewhere else around here I just posted a more detailed argument about why those of us who want to preserve the concept of intellectual property and encourage innovation might want to consider alternatives to buying Behringer, regardless of whether we think their products suck or not. Can't remember where it was... maybe in the Designer's forum. I won't bore anyone by repeating myself...
That being said, i guiltily acknowledge that in a pinch when I've been out on the road and need some small accessory from the local chain store, I have bought Behringer on occasion.
But I rarely feel good about it...
By chrisperra jay, to me, bashing a product or company is
By chrisperra
jay,
to me, bashing a product or company is fine.... i don't have a problem ripping on bad quality, value or service. i welcome that advice whole heartidly.
but,...
bashing "someone" who is giving advice because they were asked a question, is non productive. and we spend all our time getting hotheaded ,defensive, and then bitch about how poorly we treat each other.
i don't think anyone who finds this forum gets excited about it,and takes the time to register. does so with the intention of spending part of there day arguing with each other.
Exactly! That was EXACTLY the point I was trying to make. My whole point was, that it's fair for those who've had nothing but bad experiences with a company say so, as long they also said they didn't use the specific gear used. I also said that if you disagreed, you should post your positive experiences, rather than attack the person who doesn't like that company because of their own experience with that company.
I just want to be clear, I wasn't personally attacking ANYBODY, merely defending the notion that a company can have a reputation, and that it's fair to comment on that reputation, when a question is posed about a piece of equipment that company has produced. Anybody want some Enron stock?!?
Quality is totally subjective. It's been my experience that for roughly the same amount of money, other companies are making better sounding gear than Behringer...or at least have better tolerances in their end product. I've had at least three people say they thought I must have had a mellon, with my Composer. That may be, but that's a pretty big issue to me. I'd take an ART tube MP over a Behringer mic pre, any day. Have I used a Behringer pre...no...but I've had some excellent results with the ART on certain things...as well as some of their Optical compressors. So I like ART, others like Behringer...and we're all here to discuss it. I'm cool with that, and I hope everyone else is. I honestly like the fact that people who dig Behringer are speaking up, that helps the person posing a question see a wide range of opinions.
Jay
Anyone want to join the ART-ican party...we're all about killing trees?
Forget those Behringer-crats...they're trying to raise our taxes.
Did anyone get that??
:c:
Originally posted by Kurt Foster: Check out the Studio Projects
Originally posted by Kurt Foster:
Check out the Studio Projects VTB 1 mic pre. I haven't used one yet but I have one here that Studio Projects was good enough to send out to me to use in the mic pre comparisons.
I'd say the VTB-1 is marginally better as a mic pre than the Audiobuddy, and quite a bit worse as a DI. If you need something in that price range, check out the DMP-3. It's not spectacular, but it's two channels, you can usually find it for well under $150, and it's quite a bit better than the other stuff I've heard in the "ultra-cheap" category.
How about this: Don't ask a question, unless you are prepare
How about this:
Don't ask a question, unless you are prepared for ANY answer that may result. Don't sulk if you get an answer you don't like, don't attack anyone for having a different opinion.
Good decisions are made by logical unbiased people. No one here is unbiased, our experiences give us bias. Therefore a collection of info from the biased people here is useful in presenting an objective wiewpoint, and if you feel you need advice in making a purchase, there is no better place to get it than here.
Lets put an end to this once and for all!
I will ask that all members who wish to promote the free sharing of opinion and information, simply do not respond to posts that are derogatory in nature.
If you ignore these people, then they WILL go away, or they will modify their behavior.
Steve.
Originally posted by Extreme Coffee Jesus: Thanks Chris, do yo
Originally posted by Extreme Coffee Jesus:
Thanks Chris, do you know of any other killer preamps for a good price besides behringer? I've found newer ones like Presonus Tube pre, dbx minipre, and the studio projects one kurt mentioned, but is there an older one in which I could pickup off ebay or something that would be similar with my tight budget kept in mind?
The VTB 1 has been out for a while now. Studio Projects is now in the final stages of releasing the VTB2 so I suspect if your were to do a search on E Bay you would find some VTB 1's for sale used.. Kurt
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Originally posted by Steve@speedRiverStudios: Good decisio
Originally posted by Steve@speedRiverStudios:
Good decisions are made by logical unbiased people. No one here is unbiased, our experiences give us bias. Therefore a collection of info from the biased people here is useful in presenting an objective wiewpoint, and if you feel you need advice in making a purchase, there is no better place to get it than here.
Steve.
Well said Steve! By all means, no one should take any one opinion and run with it. The idea is to get input from various sources and use it to make a desision for yourself. It's called "thinking"... Kurt
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I would like to say that I am COMPLETELY unbiased when it comes
I would like to say that I am COMPLETELY unbiased when it comes to which one of Charlies Angels looks the best doing kung-fu or kung-pao or whatever it is that 'they' do.
When it comes to bashing equipment manufacturers in general, I can most certainly step up to the plate and take a swing. Any maufacurer that cant take that kind of heat ought to get a different career.
When it comes to 'bashing' fellow humans whom I cannot see nor hear and therefore cannot clearly form an opinion as to the kind of 'human' they may or may not be, I will always defer to the lighter side of judgement.This is not to say that some of the comments and blindsides that I read on here and other places dont piss me off.Its just that in becoming an adult, some years past, I realized that there are very few things in life important enough or precious enough for me to get a bit higher blood pressure for.And aimless and mostly useless crap-calling in a personal manner on some info thread, aint gonna do it.Now there are those amoung us here,..and you know who you are....who are quite eloquent and sly with the turning of a phrase.These types of digs can go deep into the psyche of a person after an extended time, and cause POSTAL ANXIETY...dont want this... do we.However...mostly these posts are kinda entertaining in their own cruel ways and while I do not wish to step on anyones toes, I ask that all whom this speaks to(you DO know who you are) to live and let live a bit more.
Then theres those who just simply cant take any critique at all.The spectre of their reactions and the awkwardness that they encounter in trying to regain their self-respect is like watching a train wreck.Ya know you gotta run away from it but you're held there in complete facination at the sight.
So be nice ...and if you cant be nice...... :p
just sit quietly and listen and learn.... :mad: :c: :s:
Originally posted by Davedog: I would like to say that I am CO
Originally posted by Davedog:
I would like to say that I am COMPLETELY unbiased when it comes to which one of Charlies Angels looks the best doing kung-fu or kung-pao or whatever it is that 'they' do.
Davester..
would that be the older "vintage" toob based Charlie’s Angels or the reissue "Solid State" versions you are referring to? Could you post some examples so we could all hear/see wank, I mean what you are speaking of?
to me, the interesting thing about budget items is that regardle
to me, the interesting thing about budget items is that regardless of the company, be it apex, behringer, art, alesis, some of the cheaper dbx stuff, ect. is that the quality of one item built by a company doesn't really relate to another item built by the same company.
i believe this is because they are all trying to take an exisisting product idea and make it as cheap as possible. i don't believe too many of their products are ground breaking earth shattering ideas.
so.......
as a result some products they can pull off and some they can't.
a high end company on the other hand painstakeingly mulls over everything to make sure the exact parts and assembly are there.
somebody actually cares about what they are making and wants it to blow everyone else out of the water.
not just everyone in their low budget price range.
thus better quality control and consistancy between product lines.
so it doesn't surpise me when there are so many opposed opinions for example, "behringer" on quality and value regarding completely different peices of gear from the same company.
i think you just have to try things out and see for yourself,hopefully you'll get lucky and whatever budget company's product you are checking out has nailed exactly what you want.
i'm glad that behringer and these other companies are around because it provides decent usable gear so people can record their first album by themselves without a large budget.
i remeber in 1991 i needed a mixer to route my alesis d4 and a cd player into so i could practice tunes. the best thing i could find was a used realistic 6 channel quarter inch/rca mixer from a pawn shop for $100.
it was fine for what i needed but i could never record anything with it without hiss and colouration.
nowdays there are plenty of companies that have good quality stuff that you could record with and get something half decent.
i love that!!!!!
chris perra
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If I was a kid in the middel of nowhere on a limited budget, and
If I was a kid in the middel of nowhere on a limited budget, and was iether learning how to or actually doing demo's....I should be satisfied with a behrenger pre if I picked it up used at a garage sale. That's because if I was this kid, hopefully I'd be smart to do a little research an find that 8 people out of ten (at least) give behreanger and their copyright infringing desings a bad rap.
Their's no point at buying an external/dedicated pre-amp when it gets down to this level...buy a used mackie 1202 and get a dozen. At this level, the mic and placement, etc is making way more of the sonic signature.
Originally posted by RecorderMan: Their's no point at buying an
Originally posted by RecorderMan:
Their's no point at buying an external/dedicated pre-amp when it gets down to this level...buy a used mackie 1202 and get a dozen. At this level, the mic and placement, etc is making way more of the sonic signature.
That's the best advice I've seen in a long time.
This has nothing to do with the Behringer Tube Mic Pre but what
This has nothing to do with the Behringer Tube Mic Pre but what RM just said brought this to mind.. jogged my memory back to an earlier time for me in my adventures in recordingland.
I think almost everyone who has been “financially challenged” has probably gone through the phase of I don’t have the money to buy great gear, but I want to squeeze the most out of what I can afford, all the while in the back of their mind thinking, Perhaps I can get so talented at doing this, I will learn how to get as good of a sound as the big cats do … but with budget gear.
It is possible this can be a very good place to come from. Sometimes, we lose sight of this, forget where we come from.. and get all caught up into the esoteric, audio snobbery, only iron, discreet, mega watt power supply are worth it kind of attitude..
I will never forget the first time I got to engineer a recording in a studio with a large format console.. Up to that point, I had been working with small mixers, had never seen an outboard mic pre, and about the best recorder I had been with was a ½” 16 Fostex G 16. The console was a Trident and we got the drums all set up and started on the kick drum… When I heard the sound, I almost immediately thought to myself.. hmmm, now I get it! From that point on, I was convinced and I think that was in part a good thing. But I think also at that point I may have lost sight of something. That mindset I eluded to earlier. That quest for the seemingly unattainable.. great sound on budget gear..
Thank goodness my wife is an unabashed collector of all the recordings I, her and we, have ever recorded. A little while ago, I began to sift through some of these “Foster archives” and it was very evident to me that a lot of what I recorded in the early days on cassettes first, then a Dokorder 4 track, with a model 2A mixer to monitor the tape returns, a BI AMP PA mixer and an old BI AMP quad limiter for front end, actually sounded pretty freakin’ good. Better than I had remembered. My best mic was a SHURE 556 “Birdcage” mic that someone gave me and the tape machine wasn’t even capable of performing a “punch in / out". I remember I would have to put the machine into pause mode and enable record, then let it roll to drop in. Often I would have to come back and spot wipe where I dropped in and out to erase the pops and clicks. Necessity was the “mother of invention”. I would "hole up" in my studio for days at a time, emerging only for meals and to sleep (sometimes). My wife would poke her head in once in a while and say, “Are you going to come to bed??”, or “When was the last time you ate?” Nowadays, I own near to $60,000 of recording gear and I never have to be reminded to sleep or eat. Sometimes I think I enjoyed recording that way in my little bedroom studio at the back of our first house, more than when I walked into that studio with the Trident console and began to “get it”.
So perhaps, that inexpensive Behringer Tube Mic Pre may be exactly what you need.. Go for it!
Wow..I joined Recording.org this morning for this very reason.
Wow..I joined Recording.org this morning for this very reason. "To understand" what to use and how to use it.
Opinions count if you want to wade through the muck.
I'm on a budget, and find the Berhinger equipment fine thus far. As far as specs go...I attended the Recoring Workshop MAINTENANCE Program last Fall where we put a Berhing Mixer through the paces. It came out smelling pretty good - true to the specs listed. It made a beliver out of me. I like what "SHEETS" had to say.
As for the Original Question that started this whole thing - Mic PRE? I found this site from an article I read about FMRAudio's RNP8388. I'm in the market for a Compressor and close to buying the RCN1773 after reading what users have said.
Kurt, here here on your comments about"getting it". I am in the
Kurt, here here on your comments about"getting it". I am in the stage where I do get it. I have used and heard a neve console, only once but I instantly noticed a difference. I have used manley, and avalon, and amek pres, and I have noticed the differences, between those, and my own. Which brings me to my point. I have mentioned before, that I have access to this kind of stuff occasionally, but my own rig is mackie, and almost old enough to be vintage yamaha. The pres are clean on both, and the mackie eq's suck. I can still make a recording that impresses even engineers at much more established studios and large consoles. I am not trying to brag, simply pointing out that if you make due with what you have you can learn great skill, and get great results. If you have great skill, you can make due with what you have, and you'll get great results. If you have great patience, and you want great results, make due with what you have and you'll learn great skill.
I have done a lot of things with " the wrong gear for the job" and it has taught me to understand and to improvise. When something goes wrong in a good setup, I know 601 ways to get around it.
Save your money! Make due with what you have, get good at making anything sound good. When you finally save up for the good stuff you'll have the experience, including a well develpoed ear, and you will be able to use it to it's max.
Just a thought, recorderman is right though, buy a half a$$ed good board and get 12 or 16 pre's. tube or not, they will be just as good as the behringer.
Steve.
I can tell from my own experience. Stay miles away from Xehringe
I can tell from my own experience. Stay miles away from Xehringer ( xerox + behringer).
Man, I cab´t believe they did it again, copying POD and YAmaha 01V. It stareted with the aural exciter and the MAckie Sr24/32 series.
Most of their stuff sucks, mic pres, DSP 8000 ( good for RTA only)with ridiculous complicated and nonsense user interface and so.
Most of their stuff sucks, mic pres, DSP 8000 ( good for RTA onl
Most of their stuff sucks, mic pres, DSP 8000 ( good for RTA only)with ridiculous complicated and nonsense user interface and so.
Behringer complicated interfaces? Not really. I have some Behringer stuff which is so simple to use. I have the Tube compressor which is a tube version of the composer pro, which in turn is in almost every artist's studio just because of it's sound. Not because of it's brand.
Originally posted by chrisperra: to me, the interesting thing
Originally posted by chrisperra:
to me, the interesting thing about budget items is that regardless of the company, be it apex, behringer, art, alesis, some of the cheaper dbx stuff, ect. is that the quality of one item built by a company doesn't really relate to another item built by the same company.i believe this is because they are all trying to take an exisisting product idea and make it as cheap as possible. i don't believe too many of their products are ground breaking earth shattering ideas.
so.......
as a result some products they can pull off and some they can't.
a high end company on the other hand painstakeingly mulls over everything to make sure the exact parts and assembly are there.
somebody actually cares about what they are making and wants it to blow everyone else out of the water.
not just everyone in their low budget price range.
thus better quality control and consistancy between product lines.
so it doesn't surpise me when there are so many opposed opinions for example, "behringer" on quality and value regarding completely different peices of gear from the same company.
i think you just have to try things out and see for yourself,hopefully you'll get lucky and whatever budget company's product you are checking out has nailed exactly what you want.
i'm glad that behringer and these other companies are around because it provides decent usable gear so people can record their first album by themselves without a large budget.
Agree on most of that. Technology does trickle down. But hey, the funny thing is that the price expectancy/performance ratio never remains constant. The problem is that EVERYONE wants EVERYTHING for nothing. With the large studio life diminishing, there aren't going to be many companies spending money on serious R&D for great new products.
From a design and manufacturing standpoint, some costs are constant, and there's nothing that can be done about those. In fact, some costs are going up. But now we want more and more function, better specs, better fidelity, but at a price that is too low. So the first thing that suffers is the audio quality and longevity of the product.
We are going to cheap ass ourselves into a position where no company will be be pushing the sonic and technological envelope to actually improve audio. We have been in a downward spiral since 1985. It is now about making it cheaper, not better, not better for the same money.
I personally don't care if Behringer wants to steal intellectual property from other manufacturers, make cheap crap like everyone else, etc. Let those people buy it. What this has done is saturate the low-end, making everyone sound the same, and need to come where I have the different flavors.
I hope, before too many of the great designers die, that circuits are designed, and boutique businesses are again established, providing good sounding tools.
And what did that have to do with the Behringer Tube Pre?
I've never had anyone listen to something I recorded and say" Ee
I've never had anyone listen to something I recorded and say" Eeeeeewwwwww thats a behringer pre-amp", I do hear"Damn,the vocals sound great what was the chain". Get what you can afford and learn how to use it to its fullest extent,,,,,maybe I just got a good one :)
A buddy of mine got the vintage version 1953 (I think) and I hate it.
Originally posted by sheet: Agree on most of that. Technology
Originally posted by sheet:
Agree on most of that. Technology does trickle down. But hey, the funny thing is that the price expectancy/performance ratio never remains constant. The problem is that EVERYONE wants EVERYTHING for nothing. With the large studio life diminishing, there aren't going to be many companies spending money on serious R&D for great new products.From a design and manufacturing standpoint, some costs are constant, and there's nothing that can be done about those. In fact, some costs are going up. But now we want more and more function, better specs, better fidelity, but at a price that is too low. So the first thing that suffers is the audio quality and longevity of the product.
We are going to cheap ass ourselves into a position where no company will be be pushing the sonic and technological envelope to actually improve audio. We have been in a downward spiral since 1985. It is now about making it cheaper, not better, not better for the same money.
I personally don't care if Behringer wants to steal intellectual property from other manufacturers, make cheap crap like everyone else, etc. Let those people buy it. What this has done is saturate the low-end, making everyone sound the same, and need to come where I have the different flavors.
I hope, before too many of the great designers die, that circuits are designed, and boutique businesses are again established, providing good sounding tools.
And what did that have to do with the Behringer Tube Pre?
Well, it goes to show that perhaps, sometimes, even Behringer can steal a good design.. good post Brent!!
IMO most the people who think "rack crap" sounds good have not had prolonged experience and exposure to high end gear and have not had the chance to hear how it can all come together at the mixing stage, where all you have to do is set all the faders in a straight line and run the 2 track..
Davedog saw this at my place when he came for a visit. I played him a track I recorded using a Mellinia Origin with no eq or compression, all the faders set at 0 and it sounds wonderful. He was amazed! So it seems the axiom would be "Garbage in, turd polish ... Quality in, less turd polishing"..
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Nope never used it! Never heard it! I don't know nothin' about it.. It could be the best thing since sliced white bread! (really!) :D
kurt... i think it would be great if you could include the
kurt...
i think it would be great if you could include the dreaded behringer pre, from their mixer, and stand alones in your pre amp comparisons.
then people who ask what's the best cheap mic pre can hear the difference, between the the cheap stuff and the real deal.
seeing as how there have been and will be some people on a limited budget loooking for solutions to there needs.
this would provide them a straight no nonsense answer.
chris perra
Originally posted by Rod Gervais: I would be surprised if Behr
Originally posted by Rod Gervais:
I would be surprised if Behringer would send Kurt their gear for review purposes........ and i certainly wouldn't expect him to buy it out of his pocket for that.Happy Hunting
Rod
What Rod says...
The only way most companies will send out a piece is if it is for a full blown review. I am afraid that I wouldn't have much to say that was good about such a piece.. so it is doubtful that it would happen. I certianly won't post a negative review slaming any product. If someone wants to send me any pre amp, (only 19 shopping days to my birthday :D ) I will include it in the clips gladly. What will be happening in the next round of comparisons is I will be including clips from the Mackie SR24 VLZ (not Pro) that I use here to monitor on..
Kurt I'll send you mine for the low end comparison. I would love
Kurt I'll send you mine for the low end comparison. I would love to hear the difference so I can make an educated purchase on my next pre. You can either give me a call or let me know how to contact you as to when and where to send it. Eddie Burnette 770-834-0538 (home) 404-557-9703
Originally posted by J. Slator: Originally posted by golli
Who's flaming? I want to hear Kurt's opinion. J,
Kurt gave his "opinion" (position) which was - "I'm not giving an opinion" -
Please leave the man alone. Instead of this - why not give us your opinion.
Happy Hunting
Rod