[[url=http://[/URL]="http://twitpic.com/…"]FIreface 800 on Twitpic[/]="http://twitpic.com/…"]FIreface 800 on Twitpic[/] FF800 , new FW cable (400->800) plugged in, installed booted up, flash updated. Mixer portion is pretty serious biz.

But first whats abouts the inputs? I need to bring in 4 or 5 mics from the kit and would like for them to stay there. I guess I need XLR to TRS conversions correct? (Arrgh !! no phantom off the back!)

Also on a back to back vocal test with the Tascam best way I can describe it is - Tascam is like putting a towel over the mic. But using effects I was able to get some of that brightness back. So clean it's more relaxing to sing through. Natural clean sound don't have to be so conscious of signal levels because there is so little ( none!) noise.

You need outboard preamps. Those are line inputs and not mic inputs. You can get stand alone units or you can use direct outs off of a mixer. You could also get a set of preamps with a digital output section like the fellow you purchased from with the Onyx 800R.

I hate to say I told you so about the difference in quality............ ^_^

No phantom pwr I don't have much choice. I hate to bring out my '80's console but it has the hardware, 12 inputs with phantom and line sends all on the back panel.

The headphone amp is sick (nice and clean). My ears feel better already.

Also about our PC. I loaded up the 25 track monster (song=stick stickly cover) it has Antares Auto Tune all over it. I runs now with FF800 no glitching but the CPU time is pegged up at 98%. Memory we have at least 1.25 GB free. So it's the CPU time primarily due to the Auto Tune.

So if you are selecting a DAW and want to run a lot of effects on multiple tracks..go big on the processor(s). Alternative to that is using outboard gear.

A preamp which does well at a modest price is the RNP. It would also provide phantom power and ouput line level signal for the FF800. True Systems preamps are also a huge bang for the buck and on the occasion they show on ebay, DAV Electronics BG1, BG2, or BG8. The Audient Mico is an excellent pre that has a spdif output. These are all quality pieces that you would use even if you later bought API Neve, Millennia or Grace.

TheJackAttack, post: 366140 wrote: A preamp which does well at a modest price is the RNP. It would also provide phantom power and ouput line level signal for the FF800. True Systems preamps are also a huge bang for the buck and on the occasion they show on ebay, DAV Electronics BG1, BG2, or BG8. The Audient Mico is an excellent pre that has a spdif output. These are all quality pieces that you would use even if you later bought API Neve, Millennia or Grace.

I'll definitely take a look at the RNP. You hit on exactly what I am struggling with now. I'm trying to balance the need of acquiring an interface that may become out dated with buying an analog preamp that will stand the test of time and all within my budget.

While I do see the need of using a 2 channel pre-amp, part of me is thinking that I should invest in a quality single pre-amp and then maybe an ok interface like the Impact Twin. The other side of me sees the all-in-one FF800 as a great solution. Basically, I want to be able to look at my gear 5-10 years from now and say "Yeah, that 'Portico' was the best purchase I made back in 2011".

I'm basically giving myself a budget of $2200 to $2500 for pre-amp and audio interface. With those numbers in mind, I either have to give up on the pre-amp a little or the interface.

At this point I'm leaning toward making the investment in the pre-amp first with a good audio interface.

Any suggestions along those lines?

Thanks!

If you are now limiting yourself to an interface and preamp, then I go back to what I said on page one.

Buy a Fireface 800 and True Systems Precision 8. Used you can come in right on budget. You will never stop using the True P8 especially for the MS decoder on channels 1&2 and the variable peak indicators. As a big damn bonus it has dual output. You can go DB25 to a backup recorder like an HD24XR or KoeCo and TRS into the FF800 line inputs. And it has enough juice to run Royer ribbons for classical music.

TheJackAttack, post: 366147 wrote: If you are now limiting yourself to an interface and preamp, then I go back to what I said on page one.

Buy a Fireface 800 and True Systems Precision 8. Used you can come in right on budget. You will never stop using the True P8 especially for the MS decoder on channels 1&2 and the variable peak indicators. As a big damn bonus it has dual output. You can go DB25 to a backup recorder like an HD24XR or KoeCo and TRS into the FF800 line inputs. And it has enough juice to run Royer ribbons for classical music.

Thank you! I appreciate the expert advice. Also, the budget above was for the pre-amp and interface only. Basically, I have a $4k budget which would also include the computer and DAW. Thanks again!

Yeah so far.....
Fireface 800 was only $900 so wierd that someone 2 hours away from me was selling one we are on Vancouver Island it's like timbuk too.
For today's session I used my 80's Vintage Tangent Console 12 (-1) preamps free!! Get these specs 0.004 % THD, 82 dB gain, -128 dBv Noise +/- 0.5 db over 20-20K phantom power... Used the Post Eq sends. Kinda ugly because the console is so big I stood it up vertically.

I would definitely have a look at the HP's Elite/home desktops. The support and pricing is great and you can get an HP Pavilion Elite HPE-500 Desktop PC series >> Firewire built in. We have two FW ports, tons of USB and full media ins and outs. 8 GB RAM tons or hard drive space too. These are all priced in the $600-1400? range

The bad bad news is my son with his young ears heard the new tracks after I recorded the band practice (120 db SPL) and wants to re-record the whole works this weekend. In for another marathon session I guess. We all wear hearing protection.

Any experience with ART stuff? ART is now owned by Yorkville Traynor, Canadians which I kinda like all their stuff (PA, guitar and bass amps). They are a good company.

The Digital MPA II and Pro Channel are not too bad provided you change out the tubes. And provided you understand it is still not going to be true high plate voltage. The digital versions can augment the FF by going in spdif. The Presonus 600 is the tube to shoot for as your first nice tube pre. IMO. YMMV. Dealer tags and dock fees may apply (vat for you euros).

The True-Systems P-Solo looks very appealing. I can see myself pairing it with the FF800.

The search continues!

At your stage a single preamp is not as versatile for an aspiring engineer. You need at least pairs if not an 8 pack.

TheJackAttack, post: 366191 wrote: At your stage a single preamp is not as versatile for an aspiring engineer. You need at least pairs if not an 8 pack.

Really? I was thinking that I could use the single outboard or the 4 pre's in the FF800. Initially, I see myself recording acoustic guitar with 1 mic or stereo matched pair. For that reason, I was initially looking at 2 channel analog pre's but thought I could get started with 1 and the FF800.

Like I said, I'm still doing my research but your posts are very helpful indeed!

You need at least six preamps to fill out the rest of the FF800's line inputs (10 all together). I think single channels are specialty preamps primarily rather than utilitarian. Also, for single channel preamps you would want to pick something with some iron. I really like the True preamps but they are crystal clear and better served as a P2A or P8. Just my opinion.

TheJackAttack, post: 366197 wrote: You need at least six preamps to fill out the rest of the FF800's line inputs (10 all together). I think single channels are specialty preamps primarily rather than utilitarian. Also, for single channel preamps you would want to pick something with some iron. I really like the True preamps but they are crystal clear and better served as a P2A or P8. Just my opinion.

Ah, I see. It's 10 total because 2 of the mic inputs are permanently on 9 and 10 and the other 2 are 7/8? I was a little confused by this because of the 4 XLR connections on the front and the 8 balance line level inputs on the back. It looked like 12. Do I have that right?

Thanks for your patience. I've been scouring the internet for used gear!

10 total line inputs. 7 & 8 have mirrored line inputs on the back so you use one or the other. 9 & 10 are on the front. 9&10 out is the headphone amp. This is all listed at RME website for free. So to recap, 10 analog line inputs (four of which also have mic preamps on the front). 2 SPDif i/o. 2 sets of Toslink ADAT (8 i/o per at 44.1k sample rate). Total i/o at 44.1k sampling is 28 or 56 if you have two units linked together via firewire 800.

One of the most important steps in developing as a young engineer is to download and read the manuals of all the gear you are using, you are imminently going to use, and that you want to use. Also read manuals on gear that is completely beyond your means that only the best studios use. You can gain insight into routing, usage, function etc.

TheJackAttack, post: 366204 wrote: 10 total line inputs. 7 & 8 have mirrored line inputs on the back so you use one or the other. 9 & 10 are on the front. 9&10 out is the headphone amp. This is all listed at RME website for free. So to recap, 10 analog line inputs (four of which also have mic preamps on the front). 2 SPDif i/o. 2 sets of Toslink ADAT (8 i/o per at 44.1k sample rate). Total i/o at 44.1k sampling is 28 or 56 if you have two units linked together via firewire 800.

One of the most important steps in developing as a young engineer is to download and read the manuals of all the gear you are using, you are imminently going to use, and that you want to use. Also read manuals on gear that is completely beyond your means that only the best studios use. You can gain insight into routing, usage, function etc.

Thanks. Yes, sorry. I am slowly reading through the manual but I do appreciate you helping me out as well. Sometimes when reading something new, everything is new.

OK, so now I think I've narrowed down my pre-amp choice to 2:

Great River MP-2NV
True-Systems Precision 8

Thanks everyone!

Here's another explanation I had typed here.

Rear 1....8 Line input, signal category soft selectable
Front 1, 7...10 also configurable
These following inputs are "paralleled" >> 1, 7,8 are front/rear accessible by soft configuration. Phantom power is also soft switchable per MIC input. Hope I got that right.

I guess there a couple of reasons to use pre-amps. The technical reason is to extract & boost signals and/or match impedance. High performance, low noise, good slew and THD specs, transparency, a high enough voltage window or headroom. And more inputs.

On the other side there is this market of "vintage tube" mojo for vocals make you sound like Pavarotti. like tube amps for guitars but smoke and mirrors for singers. So much so that pre-amp designers will chuck in a 12AX7 tube in the mix to advertise "tube" preamp (similar thing for git amps). Ya OK I get that. But I think that is more what you are referring too if you want to do like an Andy Griffith gig.

12 vintage FET preamps..... [[url=http://[/URL]="http://twitpic.com/…"]vintage console back in the mix. on Twitpic[/]="http://twitpic.com/…"]vintage console back in the mix. on Twitpic[/]

This mixer has some issues so I will need to replace it. I am going to need sends (to the Fireface) as well as returns if I choose to go the FF first. Also a complement of outputs.

Good thread, and on the right track.

I'll join the parade of FF800 promoters (thanks Jack, Jeemy, and others!) - it's been a rock for me for almost a year now.

Here's how I use it, and you may also want to look at these preamps for your line ins:
Line 1-4 = Focusrite ISA 428
Line 5-8 = Sytek MPX-4Aii
I run two Digimax ADAT units for 26 total channels.
My talkback mic is in 10, and 9 remains open as needed.

Here's what I would do if I was you:
You can use all four mic inputs for now.
Any more mics, and you'll need additional preamps to feed the line ins, or feed from your old unit for now.
Keep in mind that you can plug a bass/guitar/keyboard into the front of Channel 1.
You can record drums just fine w/ 4 mics. Use your old unit for additional mics.
So that's 4 drum mics, an instrument, and a host of other "less-important" channels.
Then think about what preamps, be they 1, 2, 4, or 8 channel units you want to add to make use of the line ins.

Here is an example of me recording a choir into an RME FF800 the other night:
http://recording.org/mobile-recording/48770-blending-blumlein-and-ortf-choirs.html#post366216

Soap has the right combo for the budget weary. That ISA 428 is a really nice sounding unit. Think P8 with some attitude. I avoid all the Platinum series Focusrite but the ISA is a Neve design from the 70's and of course the Red stuff is spectacular.

I've owned two of those Tangent boards. Really OK as far as something up against popular mixers of the day.....Peavey, Bi-Amp, early Mackie, some Hills, small footprint A&H and Soundcraft, Tascams. They dont have a lot of headroom but the tone is pretty good if you can mask the noisy controls. A good cleaning would probably help for a time....more beef than what you were using without a doubt.

Stick an ISA 428 on the RME. Gives you 8 channels of pretty damn good sounding stuff. Those RME pres arent bad at all.

I'm with Rat thanks for the replies, advice and music. Them's angels signing there bro. Soothe my ears! Low noise is important there. For rock noise floor is not such a big deal but freq response, THD and headroom is.

Surviving Tangent consoles seem to be rare. I've had this one since the mid 80's. It uses TL071 FET Op amps - great specs on those +15, -15 supply more headroom than the RME FF actually. I've thought about it and call me old skool but I do like consoles. It's because the kids (me too) are 1. rehearsing and playing live 2. and /or recording live or 3. recording tracks you know 1-4 at a time like the standard deal for doing online releases.

It's a bare bones setup so all I need some sends and returns. Be nice to not have to move cables. So rehearse/ record with minimal setup changes. Hit the switch and go.

This what I have hooked up:
Mix Board _______ RME FF800
- -------------- Input 1
-------- ------- Input ..
Snare PV22------->Input..
Guit(Tube/Spkr Em)-------> Input..
Vocal1 liveSM5x-------> Input..
Vocal2 EV ------->Input ..
Vocal3 PV------->Input 7

Korg Returns to MixBoard via RME outs 1 & 2

RME Preamps (all +48V) - Used For recording only:
Drums O/H MXL 6003
Kick BS Attack MXL 6003
Kick FS Poof MXL 2003a
Drums/Room Ambient MXL990

(no home) Guitar Cab MXL 990
(no home) Condenser Vocals EV or MXL
So when we record vocals or guitars for a release I'll just use the RME preamps. I recorded last time using two mics then we pick the best sounding one.

I would like a 12 input board with direct outs so I could port the channels to the RME that would be cool. Allen and Heath?

I went down to a couple of stores today and picked up a new Bare-zinger ADA8000 for $175 just to tide me over! Lower than M-F price ($200) way up here that is something. Actually with this unit and an ADAT cable I can connect to the FF800 that gives me 8 more inputs man. For non critical vocals, snare & tom hits and bass drum /attack etc. that is perfect.

But the kicker is for rehearsal mixing since everything is marshalled to the FF800 I can use the FF Mixer OR if there is a soft-mixer out there ??? I can use that bob's your uncle don't need a board! I wouldn't mind some panning, eq and a monitor mix.