So a couple of my friends have bands that would like to record CD's, so I decided that I would buy gear and let my friends use it for a portion of their profits. To start out, I was looking for stuff in the $300 range, they're 18-19 years old so we don't need anything fancy just stuff to get the job done and possibly expand it when we make more money and they get more serious.
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Codemonkey wrote: Someone else will hopefully help with this, I'
Codemonkey wrote: Someone else will hopefully help with this, I'm just trying to get information.
What do you have so far? Nothing?
What style of music is it?
What country are you in? US? UK? Mozambique?
Do any of you have any skills?
There you go again. Asking a lot of questions............... :shock:
Anyway. Those need answering.
Hmmm... you are starting from scratch and you want to make money
Hmmm... you are starting from scratch and you want to make money on CDs with $300 worth of recording gear total? Sounds like you have unrealistic expectations, I am sorry to say. Not that you can't get started and learn alot, but to jump in with a very small budget and expect to have a semi-professional product in the short term is probably not gonna happen.
Yes pretty much, we're planning on just selling the CD locally, price it so we can at least make the $300 back and possibly more to expand and buy better equipment.
Codemonkey wrote: Someone else will hopefully help with this, I'm just trying to get information.
What do you have so far? Nothing?
What style of music is it?
What country are you in? US? UK? Mozambique?
Do any of you have any skills?
We have the instruments and the amps so far. Will Audacity work? If not, I'm willing to put down $100 for cakewalk.
It's Rock music so guitar, bass, drums, and singer.
We live in the US.
I'm assuming your talking about recording skills, I'm really good with computers, I'm a quick learner. I also have friends who know a lot about speakers, amps, etc. and guy that I know who does some recording and mixing.
A lot to cover... Yes, you probably could get started with Auda
A lot to cover...
Yes, you probably could get started with Audacity for software (it's free, so you still have $300 left!).
I presume you have a computer - is it up to the task of audio processing? You'll need plenty of RAM, a good processor, and a big fast hard drive, for starters.
Next you'll need an interface to get the audio digitized and into your computer. At the very basic level, this could just be a soundcard with a line input. Quality will take a big step up if you go with something designed for recording, but this could easily blow away your budget and then some.
If you go the soundcard route, then you will probably still need some type of mixer - you connect your mics and/or instruments here then take that line out to your computer.
Bare-bones like this, you may be limited to recording a single track at a time. Are these bands technically competent enough to play in time and tune to a click or scratch track?
How we doing so far? Still need to cover mics, cables, headphones, etc. Got any of that stuff?
And a BIG BIG consideration is the space in which you will be recording and mixing. There is a whole forum here devoted to studio construction, acoustics, and such.
As I said, with such a small budget and less experience, you have a long way to go. I don't mean this to discourage you at all - on the contrary, I wish you luck and lots of fun getting into recording. Just be sure to realize that it may take more than you expect to put together a product that people are willing to pay for.
mwacoustic wrote: A lot to cover... Yes, you probably could get
mwacoustic wrote: A lot to cover...
Yes, you probably could get started with Audacity for software (it's free, so you still have $300 left!).
I presume you have a computer - is it up to the task of audio processing? You'll need plenty of RAM, a good processor, and a big fast hard drive, for starters.
Next you'll need an interface to get the audio digitized and into your computer. At the very basic level, this could just be a soundcard with a line input. Quality will take a big step up if you go with something designed for recording, but this could easily blow away your budget and then some.
If you go the soundcard route, then you will probably still need some type of mixer - you connect your mics and/or instruments here then take that line out to your computer.
Bare-bones like this, you may be limited to recording a single track at a time. Are these bands technically competent enough to play in time and tune to a click or scratch track?
How we doing so far? Still need to cover mics, cables, headphones, etc. Got any of that stuff?
And a BIG BIG consideration is the space in which you will be recording and mixing. There is a whole forum here devoted to studio construction, acoustics, and such.
As I said, with such a small budget and less experience, you have a long way to go. I don't mean this to discourage you at all - on the contrary, I wish you luck and lots of fun getting into recording. Just be sure to realize that it may take more than you expect to put together a product that people are willing to pay for.
We planned on recording a single track at a time so that's good. If we're doing a single track, we would only need one or two mics and headphones, correct? We still haven't decided on the space yet, but we're looking around. I was thinking about going the soundcard route also, you think that should get the job done for a bunch of teens who just want to get their music out there. Also I think a preamp could fit into the budget at $69, you think that's needed?
DON'T use the soundcard in your computer if you aspire to any so
DON'T use the soundcard in your computer if you aspire to any sort of sonic quality.
Get a low-cost 2-channel audio interface such as the E-MU 0202 USB, M-Audio MobilePre or TASCAM US-144, a pair of Shure SM57 microphones (one with a foam pop shield for when you want to sing into it), two boom mic stands, closed-back headphones and a pair of XLR-XLR mic leads. You'll scrape to get inside $300, but anything lower than this entry-level standard of gear is not going to cut it for making CDs.
Some of the interfaces (e.g. EMU) come with bundled audio software, otherwise Audacity will work for this type of project.
I haven't even mentioned getting a decent pair of monitors for mixing. I have now.
In addition to trying one-track-at-a-time recording (which will
In addition to trying one-track-at-a-time recording (which will be a lot harder than the bands think - have them practice with a metronome starting yesterday) read up on stereo recording techniques. Find a good sounding room and record the bands live with a stereo pair. You can do this with the equipment you have; it will teach you a lot about recording; it will be great practice for the bands; and the recordings will have a stolen, bootleg vibe that might go over better than your first attempts at multitrack recording. No matter how good the multitracks are, they won't be nearly as good as the recordings you will make after a few years experience. Same goes for the direct to stereo recordings, but since you are going for more of a live raw sound, the stereo recordings may be more popular. They will almost always get a better performance from inexperienced bands.
Big thing about soundcards I would say, is timing issues. Mine r
Big thing about soundcards I would say, is timing issues.
Mine runs in a sort of dual mode, separating the front mic jack and the back mic/line jacks to 2 devices.
Ran some signals off a mixer and into the comp...
During a solid 2 hour recording (no dropouts, but...) I found that the front would slip in time from the back. The same mic signal was being sent to both the front and rear in some cases but they were out of time and caused unreal amounts of HF cancellation...
Basically soundcards can't keep time is my experience.
And Davedog, I ask questions because everyone generally needs to give away such information about what they're trying to do but noone does.
mwacoustic wrote: [quote=BobRogers]Find a good sounding room and
mwacoustic wrote: [quote=BobRogers]Find a good sounding room and record the bands live with a stereo pair. You can do this with the equipment you have...
Good suggestion, Bob, but I don't think he has confirmed that he has the equipment necessary to record a stereo pair.
Agreed. I should have said the equipment he was planning to get for multitrack recording, e.g. Boswell's recommendation of a pair of 57s and a two-channel interface. The interface would have to have two mic pres (the ones the Boswell recommended do) but this is definitely a feature worth paying for anyway.
I definitely plan on getting a soundcard, I'll look into those t
I definitely plan on getting a soundcard, I'll look into those three you suggested. As for mics, I was actually planning on getting the ShureSM57 from Musicians friend.
What did you mean when you were talking about "studio pair"?
Is a preamp necessary?
How important are studio monitors? I was planning on not getting them because I just didn't see the point of them for my project, am I missing something big about them?
EDIT: If going up to $500 is necessary, we could probably do that too.
A pair of mics is 2 of the same mic (2 x SM57s). Yes you need a
A pair of mics is 2 of the same mic (2 x SM57s).
Yes you need a preamp (you would need 2, one for each mic).
Monitors and monitoring and room acoustics/treatment in general is very important. If you can't hear your mix right, you're likely to overlook something or compensate for some problem with your speakers so that when someone else with different speakers listens to them, they get blasted with your compensation...things like too much bass etc.
I want to save you some time. Get a Line 6 toneport and plug the
I want to save you some time. Get a Line 6 toneport and plug the guitars in Direct. Do NOT use Audacity. You will hate yourself for it in the long run. It is a major pain. Try Kristal Audio Engine. It's also free but allows you to use plugins in REAL TIME. Whereas in Audacity it a crap shoot, apply after the fact thing.
Use a single omni for the drums. Let's face it, with two mics you are not going to get awesome stereo sound necessarily so minimize the potential problems(phase among other things). Just put that mic smack over the drummers head and have at it.
An SM57 would be a good investment and any cheap omni would probably do fine.
This is your first recording. Don't expect miracles, however there's no reason why you couldn't get a decent recording if you take your time with it.
So it's looking like I'm going to need this: 2 of these for $20
So it's looking like I'm going to need this:
2 of these for $200
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Possible two of these for $120
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One of these for $130
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And this two for one deal for $50
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I'm still unsure about the studio monitors, if I'm going to be in the same room as them when they're recording am I going to need to them, or is that not even recommended? Also if anyone has MSN add me joli334@yahoo.com and your quicker help there would be greatly appreciated.
Those Kustom monitors you listed are stage monitors (for live pe
Those Kustom monitors you listed are stage monitors (for live performance), not studio monitors for mixing.
Instead, you'll need something from this list:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/studio-audio-monitors
(a powered set, unless you want to buy a separate power amp).
You might also check ebay or the like for SM57's. They have a great reputation for durability so a used one is likely to be in good shape and you could save a few bucks, maybe to go towards cables and stands.
The MAudio interface looks right on to get you started.
I don't know those headphones specifically, but do you need two sets? (will you be able to hook up two sets at once?)
(Dead Link Removed) And yeah, the headphones will just be for t
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And yeah, the headphones will just be for tracking, which you already said will be one track at a time, or maybe a full band "live" stereo pair. In either case, you won't need more than one set of 'phones. For playback and mixing, you'll be using the monitors, which is why they are a really important part of your setup. You'll get what you pay for...
(and btw, I'm not endorsing or recommending those particular monitors, I don't have them - just trying to point you closer to the kind of gear that might be able to get the job done)
Well it depends on what you want to record now and in the future
Well it depends on what you want to record now and in the future (a short way, I can't say it's a HUGE investment to worry about)
And I would use "monitor" in plural form. My studio monitors, since everything is generally done in stereo.
Drums are your big factor in mics needed.
At least 1 overhead, probably 2 and then a snare mic is a regular prescription here.
To not record drums, your requirement goes down to 1 mic.
A stereo recording is technically "multi-track". You use 2 mics
A stereo recording is technically "multi-track". You use 2 mics, usually one for the left channel and one for the right channel. From a quick glance, the usb interface you linked above has two inputs and could handle recording both at once.
You could use this approach if you want to record the whole band live, with just 2 mics, as someone mentioned above. You might want to start with that approach, though it depends on having a good live mix/balance of the band in the room.
You could also record a single guitar amp with two different mics (one close, one far), as also mentioned. In this case, you are still doing one part at a time, even if it goes to two tracks.
And then there are drums. You pretty much need at least two mics to get a balanced sound from the various parts of the drum set.
Get two used SM57's - probably for close to what you would pay for one new one.
At this stage of the game don't buy anything new that you don't
At this stage of the game don't buy anything new that you don't have to. Most of it is going to go away as soon as you get some funds coming back in.
- Get it all used - ck all the buy/sell forums and ebay. that should stretch your budget a good ways
- Normally I (like many others here) would stress quality over quantity. But in this case, I would just use 1 mic to get the parts down. (go direct for bass if you can) Go for the gutsy, ratty, raw approach.
- Once funds start coming in, start replacing the weakest link and build up from there.
The point being, that even at twice your budget ($600.00-$1000.00) Your quality will only improve slightly. (you would think that double the money would equal double the quality, but it doesn't work that way)
So do it on the skinny as best as you can - (even if you have to borrow stuff) On the next round of recordings, you should have enough money to make some serious improvements.
Molarmite wrote: If I'm doing single track recording, then I wou
Molarmite wrote: If I'm doing single track recording, then I would only need one mic, correct? If I had more than one of the drums, wouldn't that be multi-track or am I completely lost?
Here is how a typical one-person-at-a time might go with the type of set up we've been talking about (which would give you the ability to record tow tracks at a time).
1. Record a vocalist with a keyboard or guitar player. You would have a separate track for each. You'd use a mic input for the vocals and either a direct input for either an electric keyboard or an amp simulator for electric guitar or you could mic an acoustic instrument or a guitar amp.
2. Record the bass (track 3)
3. Another layer of rhythm guitar (track 4)
4. Drums (tracks 5 and 6) one mic overhead, one mic on kick
5. Lead guitar (track 7)
This is an entirely new skill for most musicians. Most tend not to keep very good time when playing alone and depend on live interaction with other musicians to maintain a good groove. Anyone who wants to do this should be practicing with a metronome now.
Yes, you could figure a way to do it with just one mic. But it will be hard enough with two, and as I said, with two mics and two inputs you can record the whole band at once playing as an ensemble. The most important thing in recording is getting a good performance to record, and most musicians will play best in an ensemble.
In Bob's example, you would be using two channels at a time in s
In Bob's example, you would be using two channels at a time in steps 1 and 4. Channels=tracks in this case.
With more sophisticated interfaces, you could have say 8 or more inputs (=channels) which get mixed in the interface and then sent out to be recorded on two tracks. This would be one way to record a full band all at once (with the ability to control the relative level of each instrument before it is recorded) to a stereo mix.
Another step up from there in your interface and you could take those multiple channels of inputs and record each channel to its own track all at the same time. This gives you much more flexibility, because you don't need to worry so much about the relative levels until after you have recorded. This is the mixdown stage, where since each instrument is recorded to a separate track, you can then play around with levels and panning (left/right positioning) as well as EQ and other effects after the fact.
But that will come later (not within your current budget).
For now, you have two choices:
1) Bob's advice as above (though you might try doing the drums first if you have a good drummer who knows the song well and can play in time to a metronome or click track in his ear)
or
2) Set up the whole band, get everybody's volume balanced in the room, and just stick a pair of SM57's in the middle of the room (search for stereo recording techniques such as X-Y, ORTF, etc), press record, then start playing. You will greatly benefit from experimenting a lot with the exact positioning of the mics, to get the best overall sound. If you take time to do that well, then you have the advantage of capturing the band's performance as an ensemble. You will tradeoff the ability to remix individual instruments later, though.
Good luck!
ps - I recommend you find a beginner's tutorial on home recording and really study it. Then you can come here for specific questions on things you don't understand. It doesn't do any of us much good to try to create the full tutorial here in a discussion forum. Plenty of info is already out there.
You could use two microphones total. The recommendation has bee
You could use two microphones total. The recommendation has been a pair of SM57's.
I don't think at this point you need to buy a third microphone just for kick drum. When you record the drums, use one SM57 for the kick and the other mounted overhead somewhere. (this is not my area of expertise, YMMV) You probably won't get a "killer drum sound" this way, but it should get you started.
The USB interface you proposed earlier has two preamps (one for each channel/input), so you don't need to buy a preamp separately now. It is also your "sound card", so there ya go. Buy the interface and one SM57 right away, get things hooked up, read the manual, etc, and things should be a lot clearer to you how to proceed. (in fact, you probably can read the manual online before buying)
What do you guys think of these monitors? http://cgi.ebay.com/N
What do you guys think of these monitors?
or this one:
John Darnielle(The Mountain Goats) use to record all his shit on
John Darnielle(The Mountain Goats) use to record all his shit onto a sony cassette deck!!! And look at what the man has accomplished.Im not saying the sound quality is great,but what really matters most is the SONGS!!! If its good you'll find ways to get your music across.
Quick question: If he were to use a stereo pair to record the b
Quick question:
If he were to use a stereo pair to record the band, what sort of mics would he use? Would a pair of cardioids do? Or would omnis be necessary?
Edit: I suppose I really want to know if a pair of SM57s would do for something along those lines. Or for an unpaid, for fun choral recording. That's all I have aside from a Shure KSM27.
I plan on increasing my mic arsenal, but not quite yet.
Hmmm... you are starting from scratch and you want to make money
Hmmm... you are starting from scratch and you want to make money on CDs with $300 worth of recording gear total? Sounds like you have unrealistic expectations, I am sorry to say. Not that you can't get started and learn alot, but to jump in with a very small budget and expect to have a semi-professional product in the short term is probably not gonna happen.