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Digital Format Questions

Thanks again for all your help in picking out a $1k mic. I ended up doing a shootout between a Blueberry and a TLM 103, but the Blueberry won out for my purposes.

In any case, now is the time to buy better nearfields. I've been obsessing over whether or not to get the JBL LSR 6in or the Adam A7's. I also considered the BM5A's, but I've used them before and I'm pretty sure that their low-end response is a little bit much for my 'compact' room. For my purposes I'm leaning pretty hard towards the JBL's...

I saw that they had s/pdif and AES/EBU inputs on the back of them, which I think is neat. I've never needed to use digi-audio i/o on anything before, but I'm wondering what kind of advantages this would provide over a short length of standard balanced Mogami quad. I understand that keeping it digital would keep whatever electrical noise there was in my room out of the audio, which is good...

The thing that I don't understand is that it's going to get D/A-ed at some point or another. I understand that my MOTU Traveller's AD/DA isn't anything special, but how good can the D/A be on the LSR's? Worth using AES/EBU or s/pdif?

Furthermore, I know the tactical differences between the two formats, i.e., what cables are used, why there is an impedence invovled, etc... and I'm told that AES/EBU is the preferred format to use if you can... that s/pdif is the more 'consumer' of the two.

But why is there a difference between something that is essentially ones and zero's, which one should I use, and why?

Whew.

And if anyone has had a good experience with anything other than LSR's in the $1k range, pipe up.

Comments

Pro Audio Guest Tue, 01/30/2007 - 16:28
Like I said, the Blue worked best for my purposes. The 414xls was too flat to assist in getting a good vintage vocal, but gave a good guitar sound. The 414XLII was good for vocals but lent an unwelcome vocal-hyped quality to my D35 acoustic. As for the Neumann, I liked the TLM103, but the vocals didn't seat in my mixes as well as the Blueberry. The D35 sounded good with the 103, but not good enough to warrant a hands-down winner. The U195 was great for vocals, and I will be buying one soon, but it didn't sound good enough on guitars for me to make it my first "decent" mic. I don't make global brand judgements about things, especially mics... I personally look at individual models and what they are good at, not just the name.

Furthermore, JBL isn't the "best" at "live PA"... and I know that they're not always the "best" for monitoring, but I have a grand to work with and I have heard good things. Thanks, aqua, for answering my questions about AES/EBU vs. s/pdif. Didn't mean to disappoint you.

dementedchord Tue, 01/30/2007 - 17:56
IIRC... the diff in the 2 formats is primarily that of susbstituing a different header in transmission and the wiring scheme... there's no reason either should cause concern... as to the digital imputs on the jbl... cant say with any degree of certaintee but my gut reaction is it's both a harsh invironment to put a converter... and i'm not sure i would want to subject my amps to the RF posssibilities.... so i wouldn't probably use them.... and yes the jbl's are good monitors.... although i love those KEF 103's !!!!!

dementedchord Tue, 01/30/2007 - 17:56
IIRC... the diff in the 2 formats is primarily that of susbstituing a different header in transmission and the wiring scheme... there's no reason either should cause concern... as to the digital imputs on the jbl... cant say with any degree of certaintee but my gut reaction is it's both a harsh invironment to put a converter... and i'm not sure i would want to subject my amps to the RF posssibilities.... so i wouldn't probably use them.... and yes the jbl's are good monitors.... although i love those KEF 103's !!!!!

TVPostSound Thu, 02/01/2007 - 09:13
JBL is the best for live PA, but they are pathetic for studio monitoring

You should do your homework, hes asking about the LSR series, which are not PA monitors.

The LSR series are wonderfull monitors, and compete very well with Genelecs, BUT are more favorable in the TV, DVD, film world.
I use them for television mixing, but not for music. The exception would be
DVD music remastering.

I know quite a few people using the 4300 series, and the DA have no issues being in the monitor.
I prefer the 6300 serie myself!!!

Regarding AES VS SPDIF, they are essentially the same signal, the ifference is that SPDIF is self clocking, it does not carry the clock's preamble.

AES uses "balanced" 110 ohm cabling with XLR terminations, SPDIF uses 75 ohm coax with RCA terminations AES3ID, uses SPDIF cabling with BNC terminations.

Boswell Thu, 02/01/2007 - 09:49
[quote=TVPostSound]
JRegarding AES VS SPDIF, they are essentially the same signal, the ifference is that SPDIF is self clocking, it does not carry the clock's preamble.
Not quite. You said yourself that S/PDIF and AES/EBU are essentially the same signal. The differences are in the usage of the header bits and the voltage levels at the physical transmission medium. Since they are otherwise essentially the same, they carry the same clock recovery information in timeslots 0 - 3. Is is convention that the clock is recovered from an S/PDIF signal whereas AES/EBU signals are decoded with a clock carried on a separate channel. The rationale is that the AES/EBU signals are mostly used in professional audio and video environments where there is not only likely to be substantially longer cable runs than domestic/semi-pro usage, but that a central master clock source is the norm and the clock is distributed to all the equipment that requires it by dedicated clock distribution amplifiers. This results in minimum jitter and latency, and more reliable transmission of data than would be the case if each receiver recovered a clock from every AES/EBU input.

RemyRAD Thu, 02/01/2007 - 13:17
aqualand666, you have certainly made some assinine comments, in this thread. What is with that? One moment you say JBL's are only good for PA? I say, " what the F***? Then you say you know nothing about their self powered monitors. OK then shut up. Then you say they rock for studio monitors, after contradicting your previous advice. You became a professional within 24 hours and discovered how good they sound? Why don't you leave the professional advice to the professionals? You only joined Recording.org yesterday.

I think AC power causes hum? So therefore, you should modify all of your equipment to run on DC. You first convert the AC to DC and then you use a DC to AC inverter. That way you are powering your equipment from a quasi-sinewave instead of one of those pure hummy sounding sinewaves, right out of the outlet or is that cutlet,? Now, there is some "sound" professional advice, that goes well with beer.

If you're interested? I could sell you a wonderful Scully analog tape recorder which sounds way better than anything digital?
Ms. Remy Ann David

RemyRAD Thu, 02/01/2007 - 22:20
I'm sorry, I meant Ass in time. Or is that Ass on a dime? Maybe with ass, you get nine? With six, you get eggrole.

Let me apologize before you say you are offended. I'm sorry, you are offended but I am offensive, that's my shtick which ain't no sh**. You are an ass, in time, but you might not be? It's hard to tell unless I can smell you.

Rosy fresh and sweet smelling
Ms. Remy Ann David

You know marijuana will help mask the smell.

TVPostSound Fri, 02/02/2007 - 21:01
Not quite. You said yourself that S/PDIF and AES/EBU are essentially the same signal. The differences are in the usage of the header bits and the voltage levels at the physical transmission medium. Since they are otherwise essentially the same, they carry the same clock recovery information in timeslots 0 - 3. Is is convention that the clock is recovered from an S/PDIF signal whereas AES/EBU signals are decoded with a clock carried on a separate channel. The rationale is that the AES/EBU signals are mostly used in professional audio and video environments where there is not only likely to be substantially longer cable runs than domestic/semi-pro usage, but that a central master clock source is the norm and the clock is distributed to all the equipment that requires it by dedicated clock distribution amplifiers. This results in minimum jitter and latency, and more reliable transmission of data than would be the case if each receiver recovered a clock from every AES/EBU input.

Nice quote, please credit the source.
They are essentially the same "Bi phase marked modulation"
SPDIF can be carried to longer lengths by conversion to AES 3id which IS SPDIF via 75ohm cabling transmission. Without splitting hairs they are both very reliable, and I would use either.

TVPostSound Fri, 02/02/2007 - 21:11
Now who is this F#$%^G aqualand666 troll ????

Remy, and I come around here to help the "younger" crowd who are getting
their feet wet, and jerks like that come around and start becoming rude.
Im not yet offended, but I would stay away from Remy right now!!!!

Hey AQUA, theres an Emmy on both my left and right JBL monitors to remind me how much I suck!!! Oh yeah, the Platinum albums are between them!!!! :shock:

hueseph Fri, 02/02/2007 - 21:32
aqualand666 wrote: dude you mistakenly assume that i give a damn about you or your JBL monitors...

Geez man! If you go making blanket statements like "JBLs suck in the studio", you should expect to get some kind of response. Flak even.

As to who aqualand666 is: I have a strong suspicion that he is like a lingering fart. You know the kind where you walk into a room, you can smell it, even though you can't currently see who's let it rip, you can pretty much tell who's guilty.

But seriously, I have a strong suspicion that he was here under another name before. Maybe several other names.

Man I'm not worthy to make coffee for most people here but when I read someone spreading their uh....knowledge, I just have to call them on it.
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