Henrik,

> What is your prefered reproduction system? <

I have two high quality playback systems - one in my studio and one in my living room home theater. My studio speakers are large bi-amped JBL 4430s, driven by more than 1 KW from two Crown amps. My living room has old but still excellent McIntosh speakers for the mains, a Mackie HR624 for the center channel, Advent hi-fi speakers for the surrounds, and a fabulous Carver Sunfire subwoofer.

That said, the most important component of each system is the acoustic treatment in the room. Both rooms have a substantial amount of treatment including bass traps. I'd rather have mediocre speakers in a great room rather than the other way around. Contrary to popular belief you don't need three or more sets of speakers to compare your mixes on. All you need is one really good pair in a really good sounding room.

> "amp and speakers" for me refers to gear that collors the sound <

Again, the room colors the sound far more than anything else. A series of peaks and dips that span 20 dB throughout the entire low end is not only common, but typical in smallish rooms.

--Ethan

Contrary to popular belief you don't need three or more sets of speakers to compare your mixes on. All you need is one really good pair in a really good sounding room.

You couldn't have been more right there Ethan :)
As i stated in the "Audio Hell" posting, I belive that the audio buisness has gone the wrong way since the 1960' with multible sets of speakers as one of the failures :)

Regards

Well that's a tricky question. It's like asking what's the best food. depends on what your needs are at that moment. I tend to like a slightly forward midrange, a medium tight low end and a detailed high end. I like it to be musical yet revealing. somewhere in the middle. If the monitors are too forward sounding, then I tend to want to set the mix back to much, and vise versa. I like to be able to have them respond well to my adjustments but not make me afraid to adjust. I like my room tight so I have to find a system that lends itself well to the room. right now I have Nautilus 802 speaker powered by Perraux amps. I chose the mosfet amps because I think they are detailed but musical sounding. I wired the speakers with silver wire because I like the detail of silver, not as musical as copper but the amps makeup for it. I like the B&W's for their midrange, not my favorite for listening but easier to work on than my favorite midrange speakers, jm labs grand utopias. Dunlavy's have a very detailed high end but I found them not as enjoyable to listen to. I like paper drivers more than polypropalene(sp). for listen enjoyment, I like non metal tweeters but I find the B&W's metal tweeters to sound smoother than most. I think ribbon drivers have come a long way and i'm looking into a few for my home system. 3 way systems to me sound better than 2 way. I go back and forth between biamp and single amp.

Thanks michael!

To my experience silver is revealing.
You will hear many peoble that will say that silver is non-musical or hard/resonating in the top range.

But this is actually their system that gets revealed so what your hear is resonances from the amp/preamp or DAC.
It's simply not true that copper is more musical, copper is resonating so it colors the sound and it also feels more like you have all the material in one level. Not very detailed.

I have silver in my amp/speakers and my DAC, I think this is the most revealing and musical system I've ever had.
When I'm testing other systems like B&W/DALI/GENELEC/DYNAUDIO with a varity of amps i here resonances all over the place and sometimes it sounds like they are trying to cover up the resonances with copper cables all over and standart parts in the products.
With all the systems tested it gives a falls image of what there is on the software(CD) with no dimention and detail in the music.
Its like I had nightmares before when my amp/speakers revealed my otherwise good soundcard.

So I've found out that in the end the musical factor and the details gets together if you have a system that fits together.

Regards.

[ October 20, 2003, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: Henrik Ammitsboel ]

About the transistor thing:

Analog transistor amps colors the sound with more attach. And there is also a problem with the release time I've heard.
Anyway that results in falls reproduction of classical/acoustic and jazz music.
POP music sounds better on analog transister amps because that's what it has been produced/mastered on and that's also why POP music often dosn't sound as good on tube amp's because of the lack of attack coloration.

I've build a Digital amp because I belive that's the best compromise in acurate audio reproduction and the modern POP-thing.
There is nothing wrong with pleasing POP customers :D

If I should have both a refference tubeamp and a transistor amp i would be looking at someting like $50K :confused:

Regards

well everything colors everything. It's just a matter of picking which color you like. I do like some of the highend copper cables and I think they can be used to offset certain components if need be. I don't think the most accurate system is necessarily the best system, depends on what your looking for or need. Tubes create harmonics which isn't the most accurate but they sure can sound pleasing. If you have a super detailed amp, copper cables might be a nice addition and smooth it out a little. This is why I don't like self-powered monitors, they don't allow you to adjust your colors. Your stuck with what you bought unless you do some serious modifacations. anyway, i'm glad that your spending a lot of attention on your monitor system. what do you have?

Thanks Michael for the kind words :)

My system :

Speakers : AudioNote ANE speakers with silver internal cable

Speaker cable : some of the better copper around :)

Power Amp : Custom build digital amp using the tripath chip with silver internal wiring.

Right now i use a Custom build AudioNote DAC directly coupled with a silvercable to the power amp and no preamp.

As i see it, a human voice should sound like a human voice! And the system I've heard that comes closest is tube based with a silver only signal path.
You will also discover how good and also how different CD's can sound on such a system :(

Regards

Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel:
Does the other moderators don't have anyting to say here? :(

I probably deserve to get flamed for even replying to this silly conversation.

But, my guess is this thread died because you started going off on that "silver wire" superstitious bull$@%! :roll:

Thomas

Well Thomas I admit that i can't expect peoble to belive me, or not calling me names when I write that!
I've learned that in here :D

But I hope that even though peoble in here can't relate or simply don't belive me... that they still have interest in trying it out to see if I'm as wrong as I seme.

I would say that a big part of my work is trying out different gear over a period of time.
I also belive that we should share our results so we can guide others or get guidet if we are wrong.

Happy Christmas
Best Regards

Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel:
Well Thomas I admit that i can't expect peoble to belive me, or not calling me names when I write that! I've learned that in here :)

Thomas

Interesting Thomas reading :)

I'm not a scientist, my area is more dedicated to listening and mastering.
Afterall scientist's gave birth to the audio transistor amp, not listeners.

Thomas I really apreciate you taking care in me and telling me what you think is right, that shows me that you are a nice and caring person. Thanks :)

I haven't any scientist explanation about why silver wire is more revealing than copper wire.
But what i have is what my ears are telling me from years of music listening experience and years of different amp/speaker configuration experience.
The closest I am to a scientist explanation is that copper is resonating and silver is not.

You left out a lot of information in the "Blind test" writing.
The wire is serdently not the only thing that makes a system, you need a system that is revealing enough to be able to hear difference in speaker/signal wire and even the power cable.
It makes sence for me that EVERY faktor in a system makes a difference.

You are talking about "The Placebo Effect", that's serdently also the case if you belive you don't hear it.

Every time i hear something like this i evaluate my situation one time more and every time it comes down to something as simple as "how does it sound" and "is it music that comes out of the speakers"...
Then i realise that I'm on the right track. :)

Best Regards

Our monitoring setup:

ALON IV Speakers
Bryston IV B Amplifier
Benchmark DAC-1 D to A converter.
Acoustics by DSM and Associates in Cleveland, Ohio
Don Mitchell, Principal Acoustician.

The room looks and sounds great.

ALONs are tri wired from amp to speaker with 1.5 meters of cable. ALONs are wired with the original factory wiring.

All other cabels are Canare, Monster or Mogami.

Cable from DAC-1 to Bryston are 110 ohm AES/EBU low capacitance cables.

Room is NC-20 rated.

We have gotten excellent results from the room and mixes mastered in the room translate well into other venues.

The ALON IVs are the only speaker I know of that you can sweep with an audio oscillator and not hear the crossover points.

More information on other rooms would be most appreciated.

Good posts!!!keep them coming

Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel:
Every time i hear something like this i evaluate my situation one time more and every time it comes down to something as simple as "how does it sound" and "is it music that comes out of the speakers"...
Then i realise that I'm on the right track. :)

Ok, Henrik. I've also come to learn that these types of discussions are like debating religion. "Believers" tend to have so much invested in their mythology that they refuse to listen to simple rational arguments and plain evidence.

So, just for fun, let me call your piousness into question. :) If you were TRULY faithful to your beliefs, you would immediately dismember your loudspeaker crossovers and burn the 100 meters or so of evil, insidious copper inductors contained therein!.... replacing them with pristine, holy, white **silver** (as the angel trumpets sound). And don't forget the 100 meters of evil copper voice coil wire!...... or... dare I even utter the word........ ALUMINUM voice coils!!!!!! :( :( ;)
Thomas

Huh, every A/D converter has great specs, all flat, yada yada but none the less sound very different. I could not hear the difference between cables until I built a system that could reveal the difference. There is no mistaking that silver sounds different than copper. better for some and not for others, but different. granted there are some things out there that are a little weird that I find hard to believe work, but there are things that do wonders. If you can't hear the difference between silver and copper speaker cables, then great, radio shack has spools of zip cord for $2.99. hell why not just use string and cups.

Michael,

> why not just use string and cups. <

Nobody is debating that a high quality playback chain sounds better than string and cups. What Thomas is saying, and rightly so, is that none of these esoteric audiophile tweaks have ever been shown to be worthwhile when properly tested. There's a good reason science uses double blind testing, and anything less is just guessing. If you've ever tweaked the EQ on a guitar track to perfection only to later discover you were really changing the kick drum EQ, then you know exactly to what I'm referring. :D

If you really can tell the difference between copper and silver wire, I suggest you have a look at these high performance preamp knobs, made from the finest quality hardwoods:

(Dead Link Removed)

A true bargain at only $485 each!

--Ethan

Well Thomas, for your enjoyment i presume :D
I have a close to all silver signal path in my spekers ;)

Thomas! go ahead with your radio shack cables and alu-coils if that's fine for you.
And if you admit that Radioshack is not the brand of your dreams... do you then admit that theres a difference?

It just strikes me that you and ethan are not into "the art of musical reproduction" you guys are into "what bangs for the buck".
And that's fine for me, but it's just not what I'm into.

Best regards

If you've ever tweaked the EQ on a guitar track to perfection only to later discover you were really changing the kick drum EQ, then you know exactly to what I'm referring.

Is that your ears or your system that has a flaw?
Either case you will not hear any difference in changing cables... I was there some time ago ;)

I discovered that every tiny adjustment that I made I could hear right away. that was the first listening/working experience i got from this sytem that has been upgradet and tested ever since.
If the system is revealing enough you can hear difference in computer to computer and software to software... and I'm talking about protools and sonic/SADiE etc...
It just take's a signal run through the software and a playback afterwards.

Everything makes a difference, somethings smaller than others but still a difference.

Best regards

Michael,

I honestly find it comical how people can rely so heavily on science and engineering for the very foundations on which they stand, and then completely discard science and engineering when it conflicts with their irrational beliefs.

Scientists and engineers invented the phonograph..... the loudspeaker.... the vacuum tube... the amplifier..... the magnetic tape recorder.... the transistor..... the ADC.... the DAC..... the compact disc.... etc..... etc..... etc..... In most cases this took a great deal of experimentation, measurements, and a deep understanding of the underlying principles. But when a scientist or engineer tries to give you a simple bearing on the relative influence of system components, you refuse to listen.

Believe want you want. You will anyhow. All I can hope to do is, hopefully, help others avoid wasting their time and money on such nonsense.

And with all due respect, you probably shouldn't waste any time with my products. My loudspeaker designs pursue high linearity, low distortion, and optimal dispersion characteristics. Towards these ends I employ the artful use of solid scientific and engineering principles. I even use measurements to guide me. No, anyone who would rather spend money on wire, rather than on lower resonance speaker cone materials, higher linearity motors, better damped cabinets with lower internal resonances, etc., would certainly not be interested in my speakers. I use tinned copper wire inside my speakers for gods sake!

Thomas

Thomas you didn't answer my question?!
Do you hear a difference in different cables?

And with all due respect, you probably shouldn't waste any time with my products. My loudspeaker designs pursue high linearity, low distortion, and optimal dispersion characteristics. Towards these ends I employ the artful use of solid scientific and engineering principles. I even use measurements to guide me. No, anyone who would rather spend money on wire, rather than on lower resonance speaker cone materials, higher linearity motors, better damped cabinets with lower internal resonances, etc., would certainly not be interested in my speakers. I use tinned copper wire inside my speakers for gods sake!

With all that great moters and great cabinets Isn't that sad to ruin that with less than great cabling and voicecoils?
Or do the so called great components mess up the sound because they don't play together so in the end you can't hear the difference?
And Thomas let's not take motor magnets and other parts into the discussion unless you want this thread to fill 10 pages or so...
I can just say that it ofcouse also has a great impact in sound... and yes! i prefer a big alnico magnet for moter.
As i stated earlyer: every thing makes a difference.

To make an audio system is like cooking, every thing has to fit together.

Scientists and engineers invented the phonograph..... the loudspeaker.... the vacuum tube... the amplifier..... the magnetic tape recorder.... the transistor..... the ADC.... the DAC..... the compact disc.... etc..... etc..... etc..... In most cases this took a great deal of experimentation, measurements, and a deep understanding of the underlying principles. But when a scientist or engineer tries to give you a simple bearing on the relative influence of system components, you refuse to listen.

Yes scientists are a good thing!
They can invent great/less great things but they sure can also ruin them again.

My experience says that maybe a scientist invented them but it sure takes a person with ears and experince on listening to improve make use of the invention.
And with that said I would never buy a speaker from you simply because you don't strike me as a person that ever listen to his products, and i mean really LISTEN to them.

In audio 2+2 isn't always 4.
You can messure many different things and some of them are very hard to hear.
But you can't messure the most importent factors that makes the biggest differences to our ears so as musical quality and how open and free the sound is.

That's what Michael is talking about with his AD/DA.

-Henrik

Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel:
Well Thomas, for your enjoyment i presume :D
I have a close to all silver signal path in my spekers :p
Silver voicecoils and silver cables, I have BG's in my cross over and still copper inductors(they will be replaced soon).

Thomas! go ahead with your radio shack cables and alu-coils if that's fine for you.
And if you admit that Radioshack is not the brand of your dreams... do you then admit that theres a difference?

It just strikes me that you and ethan are not into "the art of musical reproduction" you guys are into "what bangs for the buck".
And that's fine for me, but it's just not what I'm into.

I don't use Radio Shack wire in my speakers only because it is very expensive for what you get. Typically I use either Belden or Alpha wire. They sell high quality (i.e. reliable) wire at a better price. The gauges I specify are complete overkill - because doing so adds very little to the cost.

You say you are not interested in bang for the buck? How much are you willing to spend on a speaker system? $100,000? Cool. I'll build you one for that much. I'll even throw in silver wire - not that it matters. The vast majority of that money would be spent on things that really do matter, like the cone materials and motor designs I mentioned above.

Oh, and can you guess what? I would not use silver voice coils. It's not the best material. It's conductivity to density ratio is worse than copper, as are it's thermal expansion coefficient and adhesive characteristics. Aluminum actually has a conductivity to density ratio twice as good as copper, as well as having better adhesive characteristics. However, it's thermal expansion and thermal conductivity properties are worse, making it a toss up between these two materials.

If I had an unlimited supply of money to build my speakers and lots of customers who could afford them, then what the hell, sure, I'd use silver hookup wire just for the fun of it. But, I actually do have to consider my time, money, and resources... as well as those of my customers. So, I choose to direct these recourses towards things that make a significant, measurable difference. Most of us don't have time and money to waste.

Thomas

Cool. I'll build you one for that much. I'll even throw in silver wire - not that it matters. The vast majority of that money would be spent on things that really do matter, like the cone materials and motor designs I mentioned above.

No, you can't build me one wich makes real use of the silver wiring. If you tried you would probably make a speaker that sounded bad with silver and good with you usual cabling. ;)
That's not something to joke with!! and that's just explains that you don't know anything about high end equipment. That takes many years of experience in high end speaker design and a taste for the musical facter to make such a speaker. That's an experience I belive you don't have.

What you're saying to me and Michael is that we might as well pack our years down and start calculating the work instead.

Thomas you're ignoring the most detailed and acurate messuring tool we have and that's our years.

Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel:
Thomas you didn't answer my question?!
Do you hear a difference in different cables?

As long as we're talking about normal lengths and gauges of line level cable or speaker wire with reliable connections and sufficient shielding, NO, I don't hear a difference.

Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel:
... I would never buy a speaker from you simply because you don't strike me as a person that ever listen to his products, and i mean really LISTEN to them.

You know, you're right. I build recording monitors. I don't want listen to my speakers. I want to listen to the music coming through them - with unmitigated accuracy. I leave the creation of beautiful sounds up to the artists and recording engineers. If they don't like what they hear, I want them to be absolutely certain that it's within their hands to change... not the sound of my speakers.

Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel:
With all that great moters and great cabinets Isn't that sad to ruin that with less than great cabling and voicecoils?
Or do the so called great components mess up the sound because they don't play together so in the end you can't hear the difference? .......... No, you can't build me one wich makes real use of the silver wiring. If you tried you would probably make a speaker that sounded bad with silver and good with you usual cabling.

See, these sorts of statements show us that you really have no idea about the relative magnitude of things. You're quibbling over 1.0000000001 to 1 differences when there are obvious, measurable 1.005 to 1 differences that need to be addressed. Can you even name the predominant sources of loudspeaker nonlinearity and their relative magnitude? Do you even have a clue how to fix them?

Have you heard the expression "looking for your lost keys under the lamp post because that's where the light is"? Just because you have a grasp of the idea of electricity running through a wire (and apparently not much else with respect to the workings of loudspeakers), doesn’t mean that this is where the significant problems lay.

Thomas

How many times do i have to tell you that I do not calculate my way through and I'm not a speaker designer!!!

These 2 things dont interest me as much as what comes out of the speakers.

If you want to discus speaker design then talk to Peter Qvortrup of AudioNote. Who knows... maybe he could teach you something?

I don't design, I modify to my needs.

Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel:
How many times do i have to tell you that I do not calculate my way through and I'm not a speaker designer!!! These 2 things dont interest me as much as what comes out of the speakers...... I don't design, I modify to my needs.

In other words, you believe you can make your car handle and run better by giving it a new coat of paint?

Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel:
If you want to discus speaker design then talk to Peter Qvortrup of AudioNote. Who knows... maybe he could teach you something?

Just small fraction of the great wisdom one can find on the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.audionot…"] Audio Note[/]="http://www.audionot…"] Audio Note[/] web site: [list]

I really can't believe what i'm reading. wire doesn't make a difference. I didn't read a brochure and decide to purchase my cables. I tried different cables and found, as well as many others that were in the same room, that there was a dramatic difference. This is a room that I know inside and out. I ended up making my own cables based on the materials and designs of the ones I liked. I work for a living and would rather spend my money on things like rent unless it really made a difference. I can't tell you very much about why it sounded different, maybe it only had to do with impedence on the amp or maybe it is the way the cables are braided. none of my clients really care what cables I use, I only care and will only do things that can allow me to do a better job. Just like different clocks can make a converter sound better or worse, different components and wire can make your monitoring chain sound better or worse. Applying this to your monitor chain enables one to taylor it to your desired likes. Is silver better than copper, I don't care, silver sounded far better than copper on my set up. I was hoping the copper would because it's far cheaper. I can't tell you how many amps i've tested that had near identical specs, all sounded different. stop looking at the meters and listen to the music.

Thanks Michael! We have your opinion now :)

I would like to end this thread by asking all here that have tried to compare and the rest of the moderators to step forward and speak out about this:

Joe Lambert, Don Grossinger, Doug Milton!

Does cabling matters? does different cables affect the sound differently?

Please respont with your experience.

Henrik,

> Is that your ears or your system that has a flaw? <

It's called being a human. :D

> Everything makes a difference, somethings smaller than others but still a difference. <

Not everything makes an audible difference. If I have a preamp that's flat to 10 MHz and insert a filter that rolls off at 5 MHz, I will not hear that and neither will you. This may be an extreme example, but it's not unrelated to the notion of that silver Litz wire is audibly superior to normal speaker cable, or that using expensive knobs [!] made of exotic hardwoods make an audible difference.

--Ethan

Henrik,

I have Infinity RS 4.5 speakers powered by a Neumann amplifier thru Kimber Cable "doubled" 4-TC speaker cable. John Klett & Matt Marinelli helped design, wire & set up the room. Yes, I have indeed heard different speaker cable sound different on the same system.

I make no claims that this is the "best" system in the world. I'm sure there are more fashionable or more expensive systems out there. However it allows me to make decisions that translate very well to the real world as evidenced by the sales of music that has come from this room for years. You can get the last 3 Annie Lennox 12"vinyl singles on J Records or the new Stones vinyl releases or Monica with Missy Elliot or Darude's "Sandstorm" (or many others) to see my results.

It comes down to knowing your room and chain. Not necessarily what type of material was used to manufacture the wire. You find a setup that works for you & go for it. That's how people can mix on NS-10M's which are not flat, full range speakers. If the mastering is not satisfactory to you (or your clients) then you change the system till you get something that works better.

I hope this satiisfies your curiosity. I'm not sure what point it proves.

Regards,
Don

Not everything makes an audible difference. If I have a preamp that's flat to 10 MHz and insert a filter that rolls off at 5 MHz, I will not hear that and neither will you. This may be an extreme example, but it's not unrelated to the notion of that silver Litz wire is audibly superior to normal speaker cable, or that using expensive knobs [!] made of exotic hardwoods make an audible difference.

Ethan if you insert any filter between any components in your system you will hear a difference. Not because of the roll off at 5Mhz but because of the other interactions the filter does to the signal.
For every correction we do today in amp and speaker design there is a draw back, that's the case with NFB(negative feedback) or a filter in the signal path like in a AD/DA.

I hope this satiisfies your curiosity. I'm not sure what point it proves.

This was to clarify to Thomas that peoble who use their ears can hear a difference in different components. In this case cabling.

Thanks for the answer Don!

Have newer heard a Neumann amp... how old is it? has it got tubes?

Best Regards :)

Well, Henrik you've proven nothing.

Many otherwise intelligent people believe in things that are just not real. They swear up and down that they have seen gods, ghosts, or gremlins. However, when asked to substantiate their claims in a reproducible, verifiable manner, they always find some excuse or another why it doesn't work.

If you are so confident in your claims, I invite you or anyone else to show us some data. Show us that you can reproducibly distinguish your silver speaker cable from an equal length and gauge of cooper cable. You can do it in your room with your system. I can outline a simple methodology, if you're interested. All you need is the cooper wire, an honest assistant, and some blankets to shield your view from the cable swaps.

Btw, I don't doubt that you can hear the change induced by your silver voice coils. The substandard properties of silver I mentioned above will almost certainly result in audible effects on the speaker performance (i.e. reduced linearity).

Thomas

If you are so confident in your claims, I invite you or anyone else to show us some data.

You already have all the data you need :)
You are a clever man and probably very educated as well.
Continue with the great work :c:

Thank you, Thomas. You're not the first seeker of the truth to be piloried by misguided zealots. Hang in there.

And while I have your attention, one question. When you use a stranded silver wire for a signal path, should the twist be clockwise, or counter-clockwise, to preserve the grassy undertones of the Zildian A-Austom Rock Crash symbol? The underside of the symbol is polished with vintage 1987 Gretsch cymbal polish, and of course the wire insulation will be clear poly, for greater transparency.

Also, how do you know which end of the wire goes toward the front of the signal chain to minimize crystalization?

I'm using the left channel of a Peavey PA for my monitor system, if that helps.

Thanks

Yes, I meant cymbal. leave me alone. Yeesh.

I'm using the left channel of a Peavey PA for my monitor system, if that helps.

good for you! :D

And yes! I will leave you alone after just one question:
Are you a Mastering Engineer?!?

I could ask Thomas the same question!
I believe you both belong to the Producers, Engineers and Hardware forum.

Thomas maybe has a change selling speakers to a recording engineer but not a mastering engineer.

Happy NewYear :c:

Henrik,
Please stop trying to run things on the forums. Don't say when the thread is finished and stop telling people where they belong. Anyone is free to post anywhere on the site they wish and you are not the abitrator of anything here at RO, much less in the Mastering Forum. I asked you yesterday what your professional credits were and you answered that you don't even have a studio of your own. We have "real" pros here moderating this forum and while your input is appreciated you do not have the standing to usurp their function.

Anyone is free to post anywhere on the site they wish and you are not the abitrator of anything here at RO,

I couldn't agree more, I just get provocated by peoble that writes like that... and that also makes me wonder why they write it... and that leads me to my other posting.

much less in the Mastering Forum. I asked you yesterday what your professional credits were and you answered that you don't even have a studio of your own. We have "real" pros here moderating this forum and while your input is appreciated you do not have the standing to usurp their function.

Well Kurt you should act like a moderater too, this writing of yours was not needet for you to make the point!
And that makes your posting just as bad as mine.

I started this thread because i was curius about what Mastering engineers expect from there systems and what they have at the moment, not to be hang out for my own believes by peoble that's not mastering engineers and have another understanding of their system.

Best Regards,

Originally posted by Henrik Ammitsboel:

Well Kurt you should act like a moderater too, this writing of yours was not needet for you to make the point!
And that makes your posting just as bad as mine.

Henrik,

Kurt is an RO moderator, and he's right that you are getting carried away here at least a wee bit.

Maybe it makes sense to come in and lay back a bit when joining a new forum - that gives everyone a chance to get to know you and understand your level of experience.

When you walk through the door with guns blasting you tend to offend people.

Rod

That tends to work on the internet the same way it does in real life.

Moderators,

As a new member and one who was told that I belong in another forum, let me say this:

Of course, you all can moderate however you see fit, and I can't speak for others, but there is certainly no intervention necessary for my sake. I let my posts stand for themselves. And if I happen to meet up with someone with more knowledge and expertise who refutes my statements, then I'll just have to put my tail between my legs and take it. Clearly this is not the case in this thread. And I don't feel threatened in the least by any of Henrik's weak arguments or comments. However, if I do come across a challenging antagonist who wants to put me in my proper place, I for one am very capable of holding my own. :)

By the way, this is a great site! Thanks! :D

Thomas