A client of mine has started pre-production work on some of his new songs. He was in the other night and we tracked a resonator guitar and a vocal and I will be adding a filler guitar soon. We tracked the resonator through the BAE/UK 1173 with a mic parts S3-T12. I tracked the vocal with one of my other new mic pres, a McAllister 500 series. This is a custom built hand crafted one at a time pre built by John McAllister in Wa state.

The 1173 is quickly becoming my down and dirty fast set-up device. It takes about a minute to dial in. The S3-T12 mic has tone for days but for some reason this build doesn't have much output. Don't know if any of y'all have them but if you do, does your's have low output?? I really want it to be a great mic. Like I said the tone is fantastic. In it's present low output and sorta low sensitivity I could see it being my go-to snare top mic. You'd get instant huge snare and through that pre amp it would be plug and play.
I have to say something about the McAllister mic pre because I'm simply blown away with it. I have a pair of Burl's and a pair of Avedis 500 pres to compare it to with those being pres found in a lot of high end studios.

The McAllister may well be one of the best I have ever heard. It's clear and can be driven hard for that type of harmonic distortion. But it doesnt need to be. It's got a ton of gain. Comes with a pad, phase, and phantom.

The vocals were just scratch but on playback the mic pre really shined. The top end is almost indescribable it's so smooth. Its certainly not lacking in any areas of the frequencies and all of them seem balanced and present. This thing has depth and width for days. For those who have experienced these things, it's somewhere between a John Hardy pre and an API. I tracked the voice with my Bock U195 which is actually a Soundelux from the transition period. The Drip Audio LA2A was involved.

I don't know if this pre will supplant my tried and true vocal chain monster, the ViPre, but it's gonna get used a lot. Just like the 1173

Davedog, post: 465957, member: 4495 wrote: The S3-T12 mic has tone for days but for some reason this build doesn't have much output.

I did build a S87 and the output is louder than many of my other mics.. I mean near 5db, it's alot for a mic. Did you check all the voltage point of the S3 ? I my manual there was many and when I first built the s87 I broke 2 choke resistors. Due to this the voltage to polarise the capsule was at 10volt instead of 60volt. Once replaced this mic became my favorite for vocals...
Don't refrain from contacting micparts support, Matt is a god at helping and support his products..

I got my 2 x 1173 and I was first disappointed because both pre aren't giving the same levels when the knobs are equally set.
One meter's needle isn't set right. (giving + 3db when no compression done)
Even if I turn the front screw, I can't put it right.
The second unit's needle is worst; when I shut the unit down it get stuck at the right and won't move anymore until I tape on it.. It also get stuck when using the All in option.
At least after the unit is warm it doesn't get stuck anymore..

But I took time to use it a bit and they're nice pre.. Althought, I don't like the distortion texture when you push the gain way up.
I still need to do more tests and do a video about them, I'll probably compare the 1173 to the ISA preamps..

pcrecord, post: 465959, member: 46460 wrote: I did build a S87 and the output is louder than many of my other mics.. I mean near 5db, it's alot for a mic. Did you check all the voltage point of the S3 ? I my manual there was many and when I first built the s87 I broke 2 choke resistors. Due to this the voltage to polarise the capsule was at 10volt instead of 60volt. Once replaced this mic became my favorite for vocals...
Don't refrain from contacting micparts support, Matt is a god at helping and support his products..

I got my 2 x 1173 and I was first disappointed because both pre aren't giving the same levels when the knobs are equally set.
One meter's needle isn't set right. (giving + 3db when no compression done)
Even if I turn the front screw, I can't put it right.
The second unit's needle is worst; when I shut the unit down it get stuck at the right and won't move anymore until I tape on it.. It also get stuck when using the All in option.
At least after the unit is warm it doesn't get stuck anymore..

But I took time to use it a bit and they're nice pre.. Althought, I don't like the distortion texture when you push the gain way up.
I still need to do more tests and do a video about them, I'll probably compare the 1173 to the ISA preamps..

The distortion texture is very much like a Neve preamp. The preamp out is the clean gain and the stepped gain is the goodness.

Davedog, post: 465965, member: 4495 wrote: The distortion texture is very much like a Neve preamp. The preamp out is the clean gain and the stepped gain is the goodness.

I'm glad you say that.. I never had a neve so I have no point of reference.
If I plug an electric guitar and crank the gain, it doesn't sound that great like some reviewers have said.
But I can see the harmonic distortion when staying just before it breaks into distortion (tested with a sinewave) I need to make that same test with the ISA..
I feel that I have something nice in hand but it needs work and a bit of time to master and I didn't have the same AWE compared to the ISA. (specially regarding noise)

pcrecord, post: 465971, member: 46460 wrote: I'm glad you say that.. I never had a neve so I have no point of reference.
If I plug an electric guitar and crank the gain, it doesn't sound that great like some reviewers have said.
But I can see the harmonic distortion when staying just before it breaks into distortion (tested with a sinewave) I need to make that same test with the ISA..
I feel that I have something nice in hand but it needs work and a bit of time to master and I didn't have the same AWE compared to the ISA. (specially regarding noise)

The balancing of the master out, the preamp variable out, and the preamp gain is something you have to dial in with your ears. And it is a "balancing" for certain.

ALWAYS do this without the comp in the circuit.

If you haven't had Neve-ish gear it will take some time to understand just exactly what the gain does to the sound and this THING that it does will be more properly assessed in a mix rather than a solo'd listen. It's the beauty of that circuit. It's how it lets things "sit" in a mix.

The ISA is a different sound entirely even though it comes from Rupert via the ISA 110 mic preamp circuit it was not ever intended to be the same as the 1073, 1081, 1084.1066, or any other of the amp drivers that people throughout the years have discovered will carry and audio signal amplified enough to capture from the many points included in a Neve console from the past.

Davedog, post: 465976, member: 4495 wrote: he ISA is a different sound entirely even though it comes from Rupert via the ISA 110 mic preamp circuit

That I know.. I'm not expecting that they sound the same .. but since the ISA is my favorite preamp, it will help me assess the differences and decide when to use one and when to use the other ;)
Thanks for sharing your experience, it helps greatly !

Here is the difference between the ISA and 1173 with a 1K sinewave (I'll let you guess which one is which!! ) (y)

Davedog, post: 465976, member: 4495 wrote: this THING that it does will be more properly assessed in a mix rather than a solo'd listen

Yes. This is very very true. I found the calrecs to be a bit "over the top" almost strident, until it was in the track, at which point it was perfect.

The meter thing bothers me. So does the gain thing.

Do they both sound similar? The chances of 2x deffecitve units is low, but not impossible.

LOL. I don't think in my nearly 40 years of recording that I have ever assessed a mic pre via a 1K sinewave or a chart. I generally let my ears tell me what is the better choice and this training comes from trial and error. The greatest part of choosing a piece of kit is how does it's use in the capture of a source translate and sit with the other choices made in the whole of the application.

It is much the same as choosing a different mic for different things. The 'stamp' of the mics personality on the source can determine the quality of the captures use in a mix. What sounds GREAT in a solo'd listen may sound like absolute crap when combined with the other parts of the mix.

A great example would be to find solo'd tracks of Jimmy Page's guitar parts in the Zeppelin recordings. I gotta tell ya....his guitar tone is sorta.. uh...well you get where I'm coming from....But when it's dropped into the mix of the songs it's magic of the highest order.

The same is true with the aural stamp that preamps put on the mics voice. Some mics just don't sound "right" with certain preamps. Others sound fab! BUT! Sometimes the 'not quite right sound' is the correct one for the mix.

You will never get that information from a sinewave or a burst chart. I WILL use the burst chart of the polarity sensitivity if available for mics I don't really know much about in order to have a starting point in how to aim it.

A mic pre you have to listen to as you are preparing to track the source and use your intuition about how it's going to sit in a mix. Experience and trial and error are the only ways I know of to get this right.

As for the build issues I would without hesitation contact the sales source and point this out. The UK brand is not intended to be a sub=par quality clone but rather a less expensive but quality device for budget minded shops. Mine worked well out of the box but I never really look at the meters except when its in GR. I dont ever use them for input or output monitoring. I can hear when it's over the line in a bad way. The older folks on here that come from tape know that meters on a tape machine are just "suggestions"

kmetal, post: 465982, member: 37533 wrote: Yes. This is very very true. I found the calrecs to be a bit "over the top" almost strident, until it was in the track, at which point it was perfect.

The meter thing bothers me. So does the gain thing.

Do they both sound similar? The chances of 2x deffecitve units is low, but not impossible.

Yeah, the sound is almost identical on null tests.

Davedog, post: 465983, member: 4495 wrote: LOL. I don't think in my nearly 40 years of recording that I have ever assessed a mic pre via a 1K sinewave or a chart.

Hi hi hi !! It was just a way to show the difference visually.. Wait for the video ;)

Davedog, post: 465984, member: 4495 wrote: As for the build issues I would without hesitation contact the sales source and point this out.

I did send them a message and they said I need to send them the unit..
But I'm not in the mood to wait 2 months to get them back.
There is 3 potentiometer inside, I will try them to see if I can calibrate the Vu meter and the gain difference..
If I don't get good result I'll send them

I posted my first video about the 1173 here :
my-first-look-on-the-uk-sound

so what is your impression of the 1173?

Kurt Foster, post: 466035, member: 7836 wrote: so what is your impression of the 1173?

I'm not sure yet..
I'm kinda disapointed because both units aren't calibrated the same and both compression meters need work. One get stuck, the other shows +3db when no signal goes to the unit.
But I can see and hear they give some character with harmonic distortions. So it will probably do a great job on electric guitars and many other things that you'd want to give some mojo to.
I guess that I was expecting more from them considering the price. You see I can get the focusrite ISA TWO (2 channels) for 1099 CAD and the 1173 was 1599 CAD. Of course I get a compressor, but still..
The ISA are some tanks I'd never feel will fail. Looking at the inside parts of the 1173, not so sure and I'm doubting the quality control.
Of course, I've been blessed with the ISAs I realise now they are great value for the price.
I got the unit 141 and 396 and even the power switches on the back aren't the same...
Don't get me wrong, they seems to be great units, it's just that I feel they should have been sold for a lot less.
Now of course I just got them and they are the kind of unit you need to learn how to push and set right.. so I might just change my mind in a few weeks, specially if I can get them calibrated a bit.
I'm going to open them and try to figure out how tonight...
I'll will come back with more impressions then ;)

I was a bit dissapointed when i first used a manley dual mono, a tla100 compressor, and even an api eq. They weren't what i thought they were gonna be based on catalog descriptions, and it took me a while to figure out what made them so expensive. The tla-100 was like 3k for a single mono unit.

Then after a bit i grew to love the peices. I learned to appreciate exactly what it is that made them special. Im not saying this is the case with you, but it might be. You might feel differently after putting it thru its paces. You might get used to it, then use like a stock pre and go oh, right, i see.

I a/b'd my 300$ art mpa pro mic pre vs the manley, same room same drums and player. The Manley wasn't 7x better, but was 7x more money. But, the manley did have a density and girth in the mid range that was not attainable any other way. The art was a more hollow brash and undefined. The art is a great unit for the price, but its not the same as a manley. That last 10-15% of excellence cost 7x more.

I discovered the tla-100 was one of the best compression units for making things dark. Pair it with a bright mic and singer, and all thr sudden its velvet. At first i was like "this thing is 3k? Its not even that good". Lol. It grew to become a favorite of mine.

Sometimes first impressions can be deceiving. Something awesome grows tiresome quickly or the opposite. Some of my all time favorite records i was like "meh" about for the first half dozen listens.

Sorry ramble over.

As far as your units, id be not pleased with the seemingly poor quality control and different design features like the power switch. Id want to exchange them for a pair better matched. They are not budget units.

I will say that imho part of the neve sound is the eq, not just the pre. Maybe you'd be better off with 2 units with the eq, instead, since they make a stereo 1176 version.

At 1600$ your really close to the price point of the AMS/Neve made pre and a BAE. I dunno id think deeply about the choice cuz the units should be a lifelong investment at those prices. Part of that neve badge is an indicator of no compromise. If you didn't like it, you just don't like that sound, its not cuz the unit cut corners. (Yes its not a vintage neve yadda yadda but those all sound different too by now)

Im dissapointed that you aren't thrilled with them, they are supposed to be like a step down from neve but step up from warm.

The isa are just very very nice in general regardles of their price. They are the best value in pro level gear i know of.

The presonus eureka channel was the best "budget" channel strip ever i think lol. It would beat out Manley neve and API for some things.

Price is usually an indicator of quality but not always. Tho i can't think of any of the high end stuff i got to use that wasn't good. I still love some dbx and the eureka tho.

I dunno Marco maybe you got some deffective units. Were they used or floor models or something?

with a very short perusal of comments on the net regarding the UK Sound 1173, i found 3 reports of the same meter issues as with Marco, with UK Sound requesting return for servicing as the solution. it seems to be a common problem. GS has a thread where there's pics of the guts posted.

Maybe I got lucky. I haven't noticed any meter problems but I gotta tell ya, I don't look at the meters very much for anything.

Except the ProTools mixer on the incoming. But I've gotten to the point that when a little hash starts showing up I stop and fix it.

Marco. I noticed that your 428 is the MkI with the meters. I am glad it has been solid for you. One of the concerns I had when I bought mine was the many complaints about the heat level in them. It seems Focusrite noticed too and pulled the meters out of the chassis for the MkII which is the one I have. It has had one very small problem in it's 10+ years I've had it. It was a cold solder joint and thats all. AND it took 9 1/2 years to actually break down. AND it was only the output of one channel. They are really good in the way that they are and the ease at which you can get a quality sound out of them. One thing that I have noticed throughout my time with my 428 MkII is it's kinda not exciting but in a good way. Make sense? It does allow me to tailor a sound with the mic selection and placement rather than putting the stamp of the preamp on the source.

I had an acquaintance who had a couple of the original ISA 115 pres as well as the channel strip the ISA 430 Producers Pak. These are the Rupert stuff. And yeah, they're still $4K.

I hope you find some love for your UK's. They are after all, part of the BAE family. There's a couple of producers here that were friends and clients of Brents' who still use his early stuff and even carry them from session to session. (RIP Brent Averill)

I'm with Kyle about his assessment of some of the budget pres mentioned. I have owned a Eureka since the dawn of time as well as I also still have the Art MPA and VLA I bought when they were first on the market. Both of mine being made in the USA. They outsourced them pretty quickly after that. I gave the MPA to my son-in-law who still uses it every day and I had JJ Audio upgrade the VLA which made it much more usable. It has 'mojo' now. I use it on the 57's in a multimic guitar amp capture. The Royers don't really like it so I use the 1176 clones. It's given great service and for it originally costing me $250 brand new + the mod its been worth every penny. I had plans to sell the Eureka a few years back and then I ran a session where I actually ran out of mic preamps for a live off-the-floor recording. Mostly drum mics. The drummer was a friend so I indulged his wants. He wanted a hihat mic as a safety since he uses his hat a LOT. So the Eureka got thrown into use as the hat pre with a lovely little Neumann KM-184. And now? It's the ONLY thing I use on hihats. I've recorded at least 50 different sets of hats and no matter what the weight, size, etc the Eureka with it's EQ and compressor and it's ability to change the order of the devices makes it perfect for that. Used about 10 years ago for $150. Worth every penny.

Anyways... Marco I hope find your happy place with your purchase. I personally would be shipping that back asap if it were me. It helps the smaller companies with their rep and ironing out the problems. It's not like they are some corporate giant.

Kurt Foster, post: 466039, member: 7836 wrote: with a very short perusal of comments on the net regarding the UK Sound 1173, i found 3 reports of the same meter issues as with Marco, with UK Sound requesting return for servicing as the solution. it seems to be a common problem. GS has a thread where there's pics of the guts posted.

What was the concensus over there? Did they highlight the diff between UK vs BAE vs Neve?

Thanks guys !
I should say that after spending the evening fiddling with the internal potentiometers, I finally seem to set them very close to each other.
They now give the same output level and the compression threshold is also very near (below half a db)
I think I'm going to make a video about this too.

There is 3 potentiometer inside, one close to the attack and release and 2 near the xlr inputs.
The one close to the Attack and release, seems to set how hot the signal enters the compressor and even when bypassed it affects the level going to the master output level.
The 2 others sets where the needle rest and how big of the displacement when compressing.
I was able to put both needles at zero db and have accurate movement on 4:1 ratio. But when you turn to other settings up to 20:1, the needle shows gain reduction even if there ain't any.
I don't get it, I think the thought about it as percentages instead of gain reduction in db.. but why is db reading are displayed ? Beats me.
Anyway, I'm going to use 4:1 for 90% of the time and even if it starts at a different point the metering is accurate on other settings (for example going from -5db to -10db instead of 0db to -5db... )

So all the work seems to have paid off and I'm a bit more positive about my 2 x 1173.
I can't say I'm confident to use them as Masterbuss processing units. . but at least, I'm won't be in the shadow that much when setting them to record.
Not having the option to display the preamp, the gain reduction and the master level separately is a big downside to the design.. but I'll adapt.. ;)

Let it be known that I wrote to UK sound 3 times and the only answer was the first message saying I need to send the units to them.
Asking if I can calibrate them myself and asking what each potentiometer do are unanswered questions.

Davedog, post: 466040, member: 4495 wrote: Maybe I got lucky. I haven't noticed any meter problems but I gotta tell ya, I don't look at the meters very much for anything.

I think that having 2 units side by side didn't help giving a good first impression since they were set differently... ;)

Nice work man.

I feel like Warren Huart should be notified about this. I think he is part of the ownership at UK Sound and has a pretty big youtube following and career as an engineer (the fray, aerosmith, chilli peppers).

I dunno, between the poor comminucation, and questionable QC i can't see where he'd be happy or confident with his companies performance. Like my car is worth less than what you paid for those. (Its an old car now, but still...)

Interesting. Perhaps you should review what the controls on a real 1176 do if you don't have a bunch of experience with them. They are not like other compressors in how the signal is processed and this could be what you are seeing with some signal still being present when the unit is in neutral. For years the trick was to run a signal through the electronics of the 1176 with the buttons all off. The unit still passes audio but doesn't compress. The benefit is the stamp of the audio circuit itself. Although I haven't yet found any info verifying this, it would seem that UK has perhaps seen this as a plus and you are actually running signal through the comp even while it is disengaged thus creating that same benefit as the hardware versions of the 1176. Just a theory.....The 20:1 is 'limiting' of course . On the 1173 the exclamation point on the switch is "All Buttons Down" on a hardware 1176 which is a thing all to itself!

Davedog, post: 466066, member: 4495 wrote: For years the trick was to run a signal through the electronics of the 1176 with the buttons all off.

I "discovered" this a while back, didn't know it was well known, usually the mention was all buttons in. All out has a wonderful dynamically sensitive distortion, ie push harder more distortion. Its way more evocative to me than the decapitator sound, simply cuz its level dependent distortion, it can emphasize things.

kmetal, post: 466065, member: 37533 wrote: I feel like Warren Huart should be notified about this

I'm not ready to start a social media war yet. I still need to asses the unit through and through.. Thanks for the suggestion tho.

Davedog, post: 466066, member: 4495 wrote: On the 1173 the exclamation point on the switch is "All Buttons Down" on a hardware 1176 which is a thing all to itself!

The all button ins on the 1173 does it's thing relatively well, I think.. what I find weird is that the compression changes when you change the ratio. All button should give one kinda variable ratio and on the 1173 it's a bit different.
Maybe it's a good thing because it gives more option.. What I don't like about the all in is the needles tapping at the very end of the meters.. (and one of mine getting stuck..) lol
I'm doing more tests this weekend.. I'll get back with more precisions on my situation ;)

This is what my suggestion is about Marco. An 1176's controls do exactly that. The input sets the threshold level while simultaneously turning up the amount of signal going into the unit. The know goes up the threshold goes down .

In the 1176 (and its clones), I find it easier to think of the threshold being internally set at an absolute level, and is unchangeable. All the input control does is to change the level of the input signal relative to this threshold.

To maintain constant level through the box for sub-threshold inputs, any change of input gain (equivalent of a threshold change) has to be compensated by an adjustment of the output gain.