Check out Mark Of the Unicorn. Used to have ehh.. was it MOtU 8812? or something. That piece was excellent.

My advice: Stick with Digi's 24 bit 888. Affordable, and almost everyone has one, so if you run into trouble, support is everywhere.

jeronimo writes:
Any more converters to add to the list?

Mytek 8x96, supposed to be very good... big dollars though!

Tim L

Now I see where all the DUC'ers went. ;)

You still using the 001? Ok, then get the REM ADI-8 Pro. Serious bang for the buck! DA is important to have if you ever want to use outboard processing. You can also monitor your mixes through the DA too instead of the 001, which makes a big difference.

:cool:

Even the alesis AI 3 is supposedly a tiny bit better then the converters on the 001. If you're not in the market for anything really high dollar maybe you should get the Alesis with a lucid clock (which will improve your whole set up) and later when you have more money get the lucid 8 channel and not take a huge loss since you only spent 400 on the alesis. Plus then you'd still have an awesome master clock which with the lucid its supposed to rock. I was looking into the rme stuff awhile ago before i decided on the spider and heard from a lot of people its not too much better then the motu converters.

Good luck in your search.

Originally posted by jeronimo:
- RME ADI-8 Pro ($1.3K) - heard good things and is affordable
- Lucid 8824 ($2.5K) - heard good things... a little out of range

I understand the Lucid is far superior (I own three of them, my partner has an RME at his house), and the most I've ever seen it for is $2150.

mb

Originally posted by jeronimo:
- RME ADI-8 Pro ($1.3K) - heard good things and is affordable
- Lucid 8824 ($2.5K) - heard good things... a little out of range

I think the Lucid is far superior, and the most I've ever seen them for is $2150.

mb

Maybe Planet Red can help me with a question I asked on another thread? I am thinking of the Spider as a front end for an 888/24. The question is, does one have the option of using the Spider converters without going through the mic preamps (e.g. a line input alternative) in case I want to use the converters with different mic pres? I know the CraneSong pre's rock, but I might want to take advantage of the Spider converters with different coloration preamp (no sense throwing out my whole collection), or use them while inputting a line level signal into ProTools.

I've been wondering the same thing about the Spider - when mine gets here I'll know. If I remember correctly there are channel inserts which will allow you to bring in signals post pre.

Scott

I made a mistake, I was looking at the wrong model of the Lucid 8824, the ADAT version is aroun $2100. The Spider might be awsome, BUT, again, far away from my reach. Isn't it around $6k? Yes bassmac, I still have the 001, unfortunatelly, but one day I'll get there :) ! I was looking around and I found the HHB nanosync (or something like this), and it has WC outs and SPDIF outs as well... so, it might owrk perfect with the 001 and a converter with WC in right?

....

'You can also monitor your mixes through the DA too instead of the 001, which makes a big difference.'- Bassmac

I think that is very important, good point!

:)

Jules

I would like to add the following:
- Panasonic WZ AD96 (I don't know the price)
- db Technology M AD824 (Don't know the price either) - This one looks cool, because you can build your conversor 2 channels at a time.

c'mon guys... comments

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the best ADC I've ever heard. The Prism Dream ADA-8. The only downside is that it lists at over $9k!

Greg

I stood next to 7 of them last week!

At a hire Co here in london

MEGABUCKS!

:)

Well... I'm glad I didn't mention a $9K one :)

Originally posted by Tim_L:
Mytek 8x96, supposed to be very good... big dollars though!

The Mytek 8x96 ADC is far better than the Apogee 'Special Edition' IMO (and the Mytek is also 96K, the AD8000 is not) for 40% of the price of the Apologee SE Model, and it also comes standard with AES. $350 a channel really isn't much when it comes to world class quality. Really great people behind the scenes too.

...Now i feel massively inferior....my up- grade on my system was to include an 001 factory (cheap plugin package)and some pres to offset my soundcrafts pres....i know there are better ad/da converters out there than the digi's...but $9K???thats two avalons and a couple of good used mics...i gotta go get a scotch and think this all through again...of course unlike a lot of you i'm only doing my stuff and my bands...no clients...any suggestions? (the upgrade also includes a fine amd/athalon drive 'puter in a stripped down os config. as a stand alone unit)...BTW. i am a tape head...thus the analog stuff... :roll:

Dave,

You definitely don't need a $1125 per channel digital conversion system to make great music, or even have great sound. The most important part of the path is going to be the room and players (and instrument or amp quality of the players) and then the mics and preamps. A/D is very important, but if you have weak links in the front end stay with your 001 A/D and get some nice mics and preamps that you know in your gut are going to deliver truly great sound. You will find yourself fighting less to get good mixes because the better it is going into the multitrack the easier it is come time to put it all together. My point above was that you can be closer (IMO) to something on the level of a Prism for 33% of the cost, as opposed to not as close for 75% of the cost (Apologee SE). YOMV.

The RME piece you want is the ADI-8-DS. I have one and it sounds very good, and does 96khz and D/A as well, and has some other useful features. The ADI-Pro you mention is only two channel.
I have no doubt that the Lucids and especially the Myteks are an improvement, but the ADI-8-DS is a fine piece. Very well made and solid.
Ted

Oh, the Swissonic are really good too, but expensive compared the ADI-8-DS (just as good, or better). If you need any D/A the RME is better, of if you need to go to TDIF at any point. Best price I've found on ADI-8-DS is $1500.
Ted

Thanks for the shout-out Nathan....most helpful and calming..(er...maybe its the balmore scotch)..One thing that piqued my interest on this string were comments by bassmac and confirmation by julian about being able to monitor mixes from the DA and not in the 001...seems to me to be a better path...sonically and less of a hassle....also inserts on some of these higher end things seem to be up my alley...or am i still looking at it stupidly? Cheers to All..... :w:

The Motu 1296 is pretty sweet for the $ ...... (however, to get the full benifit it helps to have DP3 and a mac)

Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:
ADI-8-DS [RME] is a fine piece. Very well made and solid.
Ted

I agree...if I didn't feel comfortable using it in some application in the studio I wouldn't sell it. I feel ethically obligated to not sell junk.

Just to clear up any confusion: the RME ADI96-PRO is 2-channel with mic or line inputs, and also some built-in DSP, whereas the ADI8-PRO is the older 44.1/48k 8-channel model.

Nathan, I am just curious, but for people who are only working up to 48k, do you find any difference in the sound quality of the AD between the ADI-8 and the ADI-DS?

thanks

Originally posted by atlasproaudio:

I agree...if I didn't feel comfortable using it in some application in the studio I wouldn't sell it. I feel ethically obligated to not sell junk.

Yea, I guess if you don't feel comfortable with a product that makes it junk.... and I guess all those folks who made platnum records that started with Mackies and Adats should have been uncomfortable all the way to the bank.
Of course one product might not be as good as another in quality, but lets not forget, the end result is far from being just about paying large amounts of money for small steps up in quality. :D

Originally posted by littledog:
The question is, does one have the option of using the Spider converters without going through the mic preamps (e.g. a line input alternative) in case I want to use the converters with different mic pres?

Spider has "line" inputs as well as "mic" inputs, so you can use what ever pre's or Di's your heart desires. The "insert" point remains after the line input, so if you'd like to insert another outboard unit after going into Spider's "line in", you can do that as well.

Originally posted by Tony C:

I guess all those folks who made platnum records that started with Mackies and Adats should have been uncomfortable all the way to the bank.

There are a group of people who feel that money isn't the be all end all. I like to put food on the table, but not at the expense of a sleepless night. If I recommend a piece of gear, I want the customer to be pleased with the expectations they have from my recommendation. I know a few other large stores don't follow this ethic, and have been burned (especially lately it seems) for it. And you are right, quality doesn't have to reside in millions of dollars of gear, I know that first hand from my own place. I have said it many times, it's the musicians (and the source in general) first and foremost. The engineer's skill is also as important IMO, and a certain quality level of gear that will not degrade the sound. For me I enjoy the results I get from great gear, and am building the list everyday. Slow growth has been a very good friend to me.

We have the Genex A/D & D/A converters for a trial demo in the studio. They are very nice. We had trouble with a number of Tascam DA78's for mobile so we got the Genex GX8500's MO recorders and really liked the converter in those so we are trying out the stand alone units for the studio.

The Genex boxes are forward looking units with option slots for interface cards, including for Digi. The drawback is each box is either in or out unlike the 888's but if your TDM system has a lot of cards like ours it is less of a problem.

A lot for the money.

Don Goguen
Folk Cafe Productions

Originally posted by Bear's Gone Fission:
Nathan, I'm curious about the RME gear. I see the AEB-4I/O boards on your site but not the ADI-8. Care to expound about the line, as even their site leaves some gaps (such as what sample rates the AEB boards run at).

Hi Bear,

The whole PCI line of RME runs at 96K. It's been that way for I believe quite some time. If you still have any questions shoot me an email or call if you like.

Just a quick question for Nathan...Aren't the rme's also the hammerfall systems?...I'm about to chuck my idea of half-baked protools(le, 001) to go with the hammerfall stuff...from what i can tell, zero latency in their monitoring and they dont appear to be host based...is this true?..also am chucking the soundcraft for a digital console though not a mackie...still am going with the analog outboard to be sure...'ave a "nice" day... :)

Originally posted by jeronimo:
Which A/D converters do you guys recomend?

OK.... The first (and best advice) I can give you is: Try them all out yourself! :)
Compare... do a blind test and choose...

But you probably want to hear more...
OK... I can give you my experiences; but remember: it's just my opinion... :) ;) :cool:

just my 2cents...

It seems with mic pres everyone wants a bunch of different flavors to choose from. Is this the case with A/D/A? or do folks just use one favorite for everything? I have and like the RME ADI-8 DS, but as I sometimes need more than eight, and other times just use two or four, I've thought about springing for a couple channels of something exceptional.
Thoughts?

I read a comparison RME ADI8 vs Apogee 8000 and the RME stuff was better, technically measured and also by ear comparison. I forgot the link but it was not paid by rme.....
I personally use a MOTU 2408MKII and you get a lot for the price. I never checked a/b with really good stuff but IMO good mics and their best placement in a good room with good musicians is a better investment for good recordings...

Originally posted by gie:
Swissonic AD24 (wich is also known under the Musicnet & the Sonorus brand btw)...

Isn't the Lucid stuff also OEM'd from Swissonic?

Originally posted by Bear's Gone Fission:
Nathan, I imagine that the converters aren't the same quality as the ADI series ones, based on the price. Would that be accurate?

Hi Bear,

I haven't had one in my hand yet (we've had them on backorder for 8 weeks), but they are supposed to be about 90-95% as good as their rack mounted big brother. They are cost effective though when you look at what you get. They seem to be a kind of a compromise between pure PCI based a/d/a (ie RME AEB-i/o), and the exclusively outboard units. Their PCI units alone kick butt all over ADAT conversion (they're around the same quality as the DA-88's) and run @ 96k, so it gets better from there the higher the cost.

You may also want to check out the Digiface Bear...it is a supercharged hammerfall 96/52 with DSP to help it run smoothly, and basic software for grouping virtual tracks, etc.

Originally posted by Davedog:
Just a quick question for Nathan...Aren't the rme's also the hammerfall systems?...

Dave,

The Hammerfall card is made by RME. The DSP systems aren't host based (see above), the 96/52 and 96/36 are. It just depends on how much power you want, and what features you need. The Digiface is primarily 24 channels of lightpipe i/o, and the Multiface is primarily 8 channels of A/D/A w/ 8 channels of lighpipe i/o (both have midi i/o, and other features).

Even the 95/62 Hammerfall is going to have extremely low latency, but you need to be able to have a fast computer (1.0 Ghz or more recommended)...I'm getting ready to buy a 2.0 GHz, so I will finally be able to integrate Nuendo and the Tascam MX2424 after a long wait. Good Luck.

Thankx Nathan...you've confirmed what i've been reading and researching!....The specs on all the RME stuff just looks killer...and whos to argue with germans about that! (just a joke)..I'm going to go with the 'roll your own thunderbird' computer set-up...specs to be found at prorec.com and am seriously considering a ramsa da-7 digital mixer for the surface...the more i read about the tascam 2424 the better i like it also...ive owned LOTS of tascam gear over the years and its really never gave me any trouble at all...so with good outboard gear, the right mixer and 'puter w/well designed hardwear/softwear package, i just may have my upgrade....I'm so happy! course tomorrow it'll be something else...I know this isnt the place but has anyone else besides me heard that ksm-27 shure condenser? it kills ;)