Frankly, I'm not bothered by someone trying to be the lowest guy on the block. There's one in every market, and you're welcome to the kind of clients you'll attract. (The same kind of person who's always going on the cheap - lowest hotel rates, cheapest restaurant -- it's always about the "Deal" and never about the quality.) Cients like that make me sick and tired. Take all of them you want; in a way, you're filtering out the pool for the rest of us.

I concur, but NOT when it's coming from an employee of your studio! (OK, even an intern... ESPECIALLY an intern!)

I just don't see any of you full-timer's diggin on the association with the low-ballars reputation.

Maybe I'm reading things wrong in that respect, but I kinda' doubt it.

X

MadMax wrote: I concur, but NOT when it's coming from an employee of your studio! (OK, even an intern... ESPECIALLY an intern!)

I just don't see any of you full-timer's diggin on the association with the low-ballars reputation.

Maybe I'm reading things wrong in that respect, but I kinda' doubt it.

X

I thought I covered that when I mentioned the "No-compete" agreement. It's a pre-requisite for working here. If you cash a paycheck, you've agreed that the work you do and the clients you meet under our employ can NOT be co-opted for your own business or side work. It's pretty standard stuff for most businesses.

Same thing if you work anywhere else, get fired and then try to sneak back and cherry pick the client base. Bad form, sometimes bad enough to get you sued, no matter what the business is - widgets, software or recording studios.

Here's what I tell people who are looking to go cheap when they ask what it costs to record:

What does it cost? Ans: A LOT; probably more than you have. Tell me what you want to do, and I'll tell you what it will cost.

How long does it take: Ans: Quite a while, probably longer than you think

Are you the cheapest? Ans: Of course not.

Will you cut your price? Ans: It depends; but probably not.

Are you any good: Ans: Yes, we're VERY good, possibly the best.

Then I tell them to shop around, and see what's out there. No pressure. If they come back, they come back. If they don't, then I figure they're someone else's problem.

But then again, I've been doing this for longer than I care to admit, and if I haven't figured it out by now, I never will. :twisted:

No problems here with the el-cheapo guys. Go for it! You're welcome TO 'em.

stickers wrote: Madmax,

[ quote]"I've got well over $75k invested and still have over another $75k to go before I'll consider my studio on the verge of viable." [ /quote]

If you need to spend another $75k you must be doing something wrong, seriously. Especially, these days.

No dude, I'm doing things RIGHT... in a sideways manner.

Here in the southeast, it's kind of a strange situation.

I run a mobile rig. It's a foreign concept here. So much so, that I would have laughed in your face about 6 or 7 years ago had you told me this situation existed.

I get quite a few calls and could be running full-time, except that I don't have a brick and mortar studio for OD's and mixing. It's a modest mobile tracking rig!

I've tried working with other studios and have had little success. Other studios have unsuccesfully tried working it out with me. It just doesn't pan out the way it evidently does in most of the other parts of the country.

There's pleanty of work, but the clients really only want to do a turnkey piece of business with one studio. They'll take it elswhere to master, but if they do the mobile session with you, they want to do the whole project with you. It's absolutely amazing.

There's one studio in particular that I work with, that we've kind of got a deal worked out. He doesn't tell them I'm a seperate entity. He comes in and "runs" the show. I ride shotgun and keep my mouth shut... which we learned the hard way...

On one session, they found out that I was the owner of the rig, and wanted to dump the rest of the sessions with my buddy, and do it all with me. NOT COOL (or possible - even if it had been cool) On the very next session "we" did, they almost cancelled the mobile tracking when they found out he was bringing me in. It took about three weeks of negotiation to convince the client that my bud was going to be in charge and that he was familiar with the rig and all the gear. We learned our lesson and just don't mention the differentiation anymore.

Damnedist thing I've ever seen.

So my $75k i've got to shell out is to fit up the new studio. I'm not being an ass here, but if you know how I can build-out 1200 sq ft of 2x6 double stud wall studio for less than that (including plumbing, septic, electrical, HVAC, office space and an additional 600 sq ft of workshop and storage) please let me know.

X

To me, 75k for a mobile set-up is a little more than modest.

MadMax wrote: $75k to shell out is to fit up the new studio. if you know how I can build-out 1200 sq ft of 2x6 double stud wall studio for less than that (including plumbing, septic, electrical, HVAC, office space and an additional 600 sq ft of workshop and storage) please let me know.

If you do almost, if not ALL, of the work yourself. You could build the building yourself for 1/3 of what it will cost to hire someone else to build it.
For instance, lets say you hire a company to frame the structure. They have to do three things....(1)buy materials, (2) pay labor cost and, (3) make a profit.
You on the other hand. ONLY need to pay for the materials. Which go up in price ALMOST everyday. It's true...wood cost are really high, and go up in price almost monthly, also copper wire increases in price almost every week or two. And the gas to gets there, we all know thats not comming down any time soon. Just another cost that will slowly raise the cost of doing business. From day to day
IMO the material cost are about a 3rd of the total price. The labor is another 3rd, and the profit margin is about a 3rd of the total price.
If you have one or two friends that you can trade skills with (or something with them) get some help doing some of the work. You should be able to do alot of the work yourself. For a great price
Start planning today. It shouldn't take more than 2 weeks to come up with...
1) a hand drawn floor plan (or computer printed)
2) a list of materials, and the appox cost for the materials
3) a list of 2 or 3 friends that will help you when you need it (heavy stuff)
4) a guess of how long this project should take (my guess it 6 to 8 months, doing it yourself)

On the other hand, lets say you can have the structure framed for you at a great price. And still have money left over to sub out the elec, plumbing, and HVAC work to local contractors. You can be the job superintendent and save a pile of cash.
You can do this! All you have to do is put alot of thought into this project prior to starting.

OK, I didn't want this to be a hijack.

In short. The $75k invested in the mobile rig includes; trailer, splitter snake, all the signal cableing, all the power cableing, power distro's, consoles, multitrack recorders, mic's, cases, racks, rigging, DI's, monitors, headphones, headphone distro, pre's, comps, gates, 2 track recorders, stands, FOH console, monitor console, drum kits, keyboards, amps, guitars, stage monitors, FOH cabinets, truck, amps, t-shirts, coffee mugs, office supplies, computers, software and TONS of misc parts and supplies... Oh yeah... the website, licenses, taxes, advertising and marketing.

Besides the truck and trailer, the splitter snake and consoles were the most expensive items... unless you lump all the signal and mic cables together.

The approximate $75K for the build-out. The 1200 sq. ft. structure is already existing... it needs a concrete floor. It's just a shell. So it's a true build out. I'm expecting a worst case scenereo with the retest for the septic system. I may have to pump up the hill to the house to tie into the existing septic. That's going to be expensive.

I've milled in excess of 3000 board feet of Cedar, Maple and Oak from the property. I'm waiting for the Walnut to season another week before the sawmill guy comes to mill what should be close to 500 board feet. I'm a fairly skilled carpenter/cabinet maker. I just don't have the physical ability to do the concrete myself... (old age and lightning) I can also handle about 90% of the wiring and electrical, but copper has gotten REAL stupid expensive. I've cut costs by reducing the size of the windows, and re-arranging the studio layout so that the multicore runs are minimized as much as I think I can. (Thank goodness for TurboCAD!)

No matter how I do the numbers, I keep coming in at between $40-45K. Add on new PT rig and a couple of GOOD mic's and pre's... $75K... or better... I'm sure there's going to be overrun, I just hope to keep it at a minimum.

X

Most estimates I have gotten for "new" construction or revamping of an existing building for a recording studio have come in at about $75 to $100 per square foot or more (one came in at $150 per square foot) so you are WAY under that guesstimate. If you are going with the traditional room within a room approach and your floors and ceilings are going to be floated and you can do the whole thing for $45 K you deserve a big PAT ON THE BACK!

I can't wait to see pictures!

Thomas W. Bethel wrote: Most estimates I have gotten for "new" construction or revamping of an existing building for a recording studio have come in at about $75 to $100 per square foot or more (one came in at $150 per square foot) so you are WAY under that guesstimate. If you are going with the traditional room within a room approach and your floors and ceilings are going to be floated and you can do the whole thing for $45 K you deserve a big PAT ON THE BACK!

I can't wait to see pictures!

Yeah, I'm doing a beefed up conventional RinR - 2x6 double stud walls. 3/4 MDF, 2 layers 5/8 fire rated gypsum. Ceilings are hopefully going to be a duplicate of the walls. I do need to get a certfied structural engineer's approval on it though... but I'll get the engineer to go over the whole drawing when it's done.

Conventional 4" concrete Non-floated floor... we're 5-1/2 miles off the interstate. The nearest industrial building is over 2 RURAL miles away. If I've screwed up by not floating, I can always go back and add that. I'm drawing all doors at 4-0x80" just in case I have to go back and do a 6" floated floor. (Cheaper to plan for disaster)

Possibly going for splits for the HVAC.

I've got friends and beer, so I'll do all of the framing. I will have to contract the MDF and ceiling gyspum, but will come back and do the wall gypsum myself.

Again, I'll do the electrical and signal lines. I've already worked out the electrical contractor... he'll purchase and instruct me on the odd code items. He's making all the final connections.

I'll do all the stone/brick, duct work for returns (if needed) and all of the finish carpentry.

Doing all the work I am will take me 3 times as long, but I should save approximately 30-50% in overall labor. I know I'm more the exception than the rule.

Additionally, there's only one iso booth, one main room, the control room and a hall/iso. I'm keeping the actual odd angle walls to a minimum and will do the acoustical wall angles with difusion and absorbtion treatments.

But again, this has really veered WAY off course from the original post. I'm actually documenting the build over in the [[url=http://[/URL]="http://www.recordin…"]Acoustics Forum[/]="http://www.recordin…"]Acoustics Forum[/].

Trying to get back on track...

X